A & P

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Richard B, modified 9 Years ago.

A & P

Posts: 1635 Join Date: 5/18/10 Recent Posts
I think I can confidently say I've achieved some form of the A & P. Per Daniel's nana table I've experienced:

- Longer sits. Actually I want to do this all day and all the time.
- Confidence
- Jewel tone lights
- rapture
- fine vibrations
- Instead of moving "from a bicyle to a car" it feels more natural like riding with training wheels and now riding a bicycle without them. It just seems easier.
- sexual intensity. Though I'm able to control that much easier.

This happened after noticing all kinds of dream like internal image interruptions. I just noted them and noticed how each of the 4 foundation layers interacted with each other after reading Nick's noting description on the Hamilton project site. Some of these images are dreamlike in that they often don't make sense, involve people I've never seen before, and can be unpleasant. But by noting all those foundations and how they connect together pretty much solved most of the basic hinderences that would get me for long periods of time. Without repression and just throwing mindfulness on it it's easy to see how one layer affects another.

The other thing I noticed was the vibrations got finer and there was more of a refined gladness much like described in the 3rd jhana. It was less exciting but more clear.

I know there's so much more but now there is an eagerness to keep going for longer sits. Thanks for the tips all you guys! (DhO & KFD).
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Richard B, modified 9 Years ago.

RE: A & P

Posts: 1635 Join Date: 5/18/10 Recent Posts
Last night I tried again for 1 hour and after noting at 1Hz I was able to drop the labeling and continue noting all sensations as fast as I could. I felt like my brain was speeding up and increasing energy to the point I was frightened I was going to blow my brains out. emoticon It was like the awareness was blooming and expanding in the skull. I could definitely see the brain mind reacting with evaluation. Noting mind states after evaluation and noting the evaluation itself seemed to make a difference. Everytime I was evaluating my performance I just relaxed that part and stayed with awareness since any pushing away and bringing towards is more irritating than presence which ties into what that dependent origination thread was on about. It definitely isn't enlightenment because it's not a habit yet but there's no doubt it works and I naturally now want to relax the thinking mind in all the time. Towards the last approx 10 minutes of the sitting I was too tired to note because it just seemed the sensations were going so fast. Hopefully the noting can catch up with the sensations or is the point that I won't be able to keep up with the sensations and a whole bunch of crap will appear?

Is the dark night basically staying in the present moment and tolerating unpleasantness without aversion?
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Yadid dee, modified 9 Years ago.

RE: A & P

Posts: 258 Join Date: 9/11/09 Recent Posts
Definitely sounds like A&P my friend.

When I first crossed A&P while doing Noting - this felt exactly as your description:
Richard B:
I felt like my brain was speeding up and increasing energy to the point I was frightened I was going to blow my brains out.


It tends to fade quite quickly and turn into the DN which you probably read about, so just continue your practice and try to bring more and more acceptance and precision to whatever you experience.

Is this your first time crossing it?
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Bagpuss The Gnome, modified 9 Years ago.

RE: A & P (Answer)

Posts: 704 Join Date: 11/2/11 Recent Posts
Is the dark night basically staying in the present moment and tolerating unpleasantness without aversion?


Swap "tolerating" for "accepting" and you're pretty much there.

Keep up the good work!
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Richard B, modified 9 Years ago.

RE: A & P

Posts: 1635 Join Date: 5/18/10 Recent Posts
Yadid dee:
Definitely sounds like A&P my friend.

When I first crossed A&P while doing Noting - this felt exactly as your description:
Richard B:
I felt like my brain was speeding up and increasing energy to the point I was frightened I was going to blow my brains out.


It tends to fade quite quickly and turn into the DN which you probably read about, so just continue your practice and try to bring more and more acceptance and precision to whatever you experience.

Is this your first time crossing it?


This is the first experience just like this. Everything I thought was A & P before was probably just nice jhanas with some slow noting. What helped the insight was the dependent origination thread.

http://www.dharmaoverground.org/web/guest/discussion/-/message_boards/message/401038

Especially this article:

http://www.dhammasukha.org/Study/Articles/anatta.htm

Once I felt like my ego/self/mind was twitching in my head with craving with intention and clinging with thoughts I felt I understood what I was supposed to be doing. The self feels like a reactive animal in my head. By relaxing my body and facial muscles every time I noticed tension from "contact" thoughts it allowed me to look at slow noting as a prepratory exercise but then I needed to drop the labeling and just hook up like an electrical wire to all vibratory sensations and then I put extra effort to it and that's when it happened. It was important that I kept noting faster but it was super quick "unhuhs and grunting". No words. The most important note before the event was noting my ego trying to evaluate and own my meditation practice. By noting "evaluation" I could rest in awareness and hook up without mouthing words.

I was pretty much leaning forwards afterwards and exhausted. It's like going through a brickwall after that A & P. The only difference is that it wasn't a seizure (yay!) and I felt like I wasn't permenently damaged and just okay. I'm assuming that the crossing the A & P will get easier as those neuropathways get more exercise. The difference between before and after is that I had some doubt that noting pleasant experiences would be bad but I don't doubt that anymore. Noting pleasant, neutral and unpleasant are all helpful. Work today was a little different in that I feel a little disassociative but not dangerously so. My habits still run towards narrative but it's not a big deal anymore and some light noting of "self referencing" "past" and "future" bring me back without a sense of failure. Once you understand the reactive brain you don't have to hit yourself with the "second arrow". It's just something about thought (including typing this email) that is more painful than resting in awareness. That wasn't so clear before I read Bhante Vimalaramsi.

Yeah I was worried about the Dark Night after reading so much about it and having some headache symptoms and slight malaise today but I just kept noting which still works great. No hallucinations and no depression. After the A & P it was almost instantly harder to note the sensations and I was tired. When the mental explosion was occurring my eyelids started fluttering unintentionally. The experience was more scary than I thought it was going to be. emoticon Now I know what heavy lifting you DN'ers are going through. At least I know the next instructions. "Don't stop noting".

Bagpuss The Gnome:
Is the dark night basically staying in the present moment and tolerating unpleasantness without aversion?


Swap "tolerating" for "accepting" and you're pretty much there.

Keep up the good work!


Yeah I see what you mean. Thanks!
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Yadid dee, modified 9 Years ago.

RE: A & P

Posts: 258 Join Date: 9/11/09 Recent Posts
Sounds like you are on the right track.