According to some of the yogis here I seem to be in the AP territory - perhaps the late stages or a little beyond. Lately when I sit, I've found myself in a place of extreme mental quietude and equanimity where it is possible to observe the formation (out of nothing) of thoughts, their form, and their passing away (back into nothing). My problem is that I don't really know where to go from here. From what I understand, my choices are (1) get stuck, (2) move on to Boundless Space, or (3) use this jhana to examine the nature of reality.

Lets call a spade "a spade," I don't know how to do either 2 or 3 and seem pretty well stuck. Can I get some advice how to either move on to Boundless Space or "use" this jhana to examine my perceptual reality? Many, many thanks!

PS: I'm beginning to keep a log of my meditation experiences to help in dharma diagnosis and the like, but its still in its infancy to the point of being useless - however it's growing, so in time I'll hopefully be able to provide more detail to y'all so we can determine (more or less exactly) where I am on the map.

1) I strongly recommend going to a retreat and learning insight practice properly. Nothing will bolster your practice like a retreat will and it sounds like you already have a good base to work from. I recommend the Goenka school, people are getting good results from it: www.dhamma.org

-d

ps. moving to boundless space is definitely not the choice, insight progress occurs within the mundane jhanas, the first four

Is it true that people are getting good results from Goenka methods? Has anyone here gotten paths that way?
As I understand Nick did get stream entry on a Goenka retreat, but he did it by ignoring the instructions and doing his own thing.

If anyone else has some advise on this issue I'd love to hear it. Going on a retreat isn't feasible for me in the near future - but I do appreciate the suggestion and will bear the Goenka retreats in mind when I do. I wasn't aware that the rupa jhanas are the "money jhanas" for insight practice, but even if that is the case and I abstain from moving on to Boundless Space, what do I do in Jhana Four to further my insight practice?

i'd suggest this article it gives a good explanation, if you are interested in staying in 4th (or any) jhana and investigating from there

to sum up: direct your attention to stress, its cause, and its cessation


this depends on who you ask, the suttas often suggest going all the way up to cessation of perception and feeling (9th jhana)

Thanks for the advice, Josh. Much appreciated!

Also . . .



That is indeed a good summary of that article!

Until you take a retreat use the breathe as your insight topic. It is a wonderful object for meditation because of its simplicity and tranquility. You will be able to progress through all of the insight stages using it. Start by getting into the 4th jhana and then directing your attention to the breath.



Very much so. All of my paths and a friend's paths have come from it. It’s just that people are a little more discrete about their attainments due to the nature of the organization. With regard to the efficacy of the technique understand that the whole Anagami path is entirely about the body (the body turns out to be synonymous with sense pleasure) so the fact that he has you working with body sensations from the start cannot be far off.



Nikolai does not suggest straying from the technique here is a quote of his from his article on how to get stream-entry on a course

“If you are a beginner, keep developing your vipassana skills and follow all of Goenkaji's instructions to the Tee! Actually, that goes for everyone!”

http://thehamiltonproject.blogspot.com/2010/11/going-for-stream-entry-on-goenka-10-day.html

So anyway, do the breath (anapana) technique and report back how it goes!

-d

Excellent advice, Blue - short and sweet and sounds useful - consider it taken.

Also, as far as "reporting back," I've begun to keep a blog to record my sessions so that you, I, and the other yogis have something to refer to when examining my practice. You'll find it here - although please understand, I like JUST started it.

Not to discount the advice above, but the next sentence from Nick's article you quoted says this:



I'm sure Nick could comment if he wants, but I think the article was written for people who "do not wish to change and mix techniques." I don't know what his recommendation would be for people who are open to changing and mixing techniques.

From my own experience, I got a lot out of Goenka retreats (as taught), then took a lot of time to learn the mahasi noting technique. I just finished a ten-day using almost entirely the noting technique (with some anapana mixed in). And, I haven't gotten stream entry either way.

I haven't heard of many people getting stream entry at Goenka retreats using his instructions, but some people do.

At any rate, I keep going back to Goenka courses (this was my 13th course), and each time it is a massively life-changing experience.

- Daniel