Does this sound like Equanimity?

Sriram Arya, modified 12 Years ago at 1/13/12 1:38 PM
Created 12 Years ago at 1/13/12 1:15 PM

Does this sound like Equanimity?

Posts: 31 Join Date: 1/11/12 Recent Posts
Hi,
This is my first post although I've been lurking around for sometime. Want to thank everyone who has shared their investigations and experiences, I have gained a lot (like many others) from all these information. In particular, thanks to Mr. Daniel Ingram for this site and MCTB and to Tarin Greco.

I have had a few experineces that I couldn't account for/explain so far. Then I came across the dharma material and the map and it seems to make sense. I shall briefly explain them, please let me know if it makes sense to you. (warning: long post)

I haven't done any formal meditation practice or been to retreats or any of that stuff. I think I just started looking inside while doing my post grad, ten years back. I remember entering into a pleasant and stable state. First time it happened under influence but it happened other times as well. After that I can recall some states resembling cause and effect. not certain, but the next one was clear. I sunk into a low for next few months. I would spend hours watching falling rain drops or looking at trees, doing nothing. Didn't do any work for my dissertation. I lost all interest in completing my degree as I wondered about pointlessness of everything.

After that, I remember my concentration suddenly shooting up. I could play videogames for hours without making a single mistake (only played games, no study because of the previous stage) - way beyond my concentration levels till then. I didn't have to sleep much either. At that time, I had to complete my second phase of dissertation and I had done nothing. I had so much energy and concentration that I finished it in 3 continuous days, without sleep. I didn't feel the need to sleep next day either, even after the presentation was over. I got some sleep finally on the 5th day.

Then something was happening in my visual field.. it was like every object would get analyzed, very fast like sampling or scanning. I could notice each grain of rice in a plate, one by one, very fast. I felt like I could notice every characteristic in a tree and it was out of the world. This happened a few times. I also remember one night when I closed my eyes to sleep visuals started appearing, very fast and very clear, one after another without any intent from my side. Some picture would come to my mind and my mind would focus on one part of the picture, then a new picture would emerge from that part or containing that part. This went on for a few minutes. I don't remember seeing any white lights though..

Nothing much happened after that. I finished my degree, came back to my home, didn't try to get any job. It was very all very tranquil and relaxing. I was just spending time watching nature, watching trains etc, not doing any serious work. This state carried on for almost a year. There was only one event of note in this period.

I was in a big bookstore with not much people. I was there for few hours. As I came out, I think I was surprised to see it had become night. But then everything was appearing magical.. the bus on the road became big as it approached me and became small as it receded.. happens everyday but that day it was different.. everything had a gloss over it.. It was like a fairy tale. It was like I am seeing the world for the first time, in its full glory.. I could see not only these new sights like fore shortening etc, but also the process of apprehension happening within.. I was filled with wonder. This experience, which I came to know later as pce, lasted for about 40 mins. At that time I knew I witnessed something truly remarkable and it had no resemblence to the spiritual experiences I had before (my terminology then for the events in A & P). I didn't have any pce after this, but I would have moments of apperceptional awareness, as well as walk with a panaromic view while observing the entire visual field (elements of arupa jhana (5th) perhaps?)

Then I moved to a different place, got a new job. It was tranquil and also blissful at times. Then I don't know what triggered it, but fear took over. I couldn't find any reason for it, and it was only increasing. I was afraid of going to work, meeting people, answering phone everything. That I couldn't explain it made it much harder. I fought it, reasoned it to be guilt because of unfinished work, superiority complex etc.. no use.. it had become full blooded paranoia soon.. I took psychiatric help.. no use.. quit job, back to home, no use.. took another job.. I was in a complete mess.

I remember states of misery and disgust but I don't know how many times I cycled in these states. It was many years before I found out anything. Started reading DhO because I was looking into actualism because of the pce and tarin was writing here, some day I found the connection. I was trying attentiveness but I was getting nowhere. Then I saw some advice (forgot the thread) that its better to get out of DN first before trying actualism, so I resolved to get to equinamity although I had no idea how. I went for some treks by chance and I think they helped me get into surrender mode because the treks were very tough and way beyond my fitness. Couple of months back, last November to be exact I saw some shifts in my state.

The experience was same, yet different in the sense that I wasn't getting pulled into things. It was like me observing, but without a stake and the bad stuff started to disappear leaving a well balanced state. I was getting into panoramic mode more often and without effort. I also started noting ringing kind of experience, but not sure because I have read about it. Anyways, the most important thing is that the negative stuff has almost disappeared, and even when it arises it is not affecting me.

Today I was trying to see impermanence in the sensations of chest area as per some thread I read.. first came a sensation/tension which felt like craving to belong.. I looked closer and it looked like its made up of more sensations.. seen to be impermanent, then came anxiety, then another feeling that felt like anguish.. which I couldn't see why its impermanent.. will try to do that tomorrow. Inbetween I had subtle sensations in the crown area..

Thanks for reading so far. This is my current state. I still have no meditation technique. I haven't decided clearly to go for stream entry or to try attentiveness and go for af or just concentrate on doing my work (my work is a independent research project now and no amount of time is enough for that). Any practical advice you can give me, please shoot away. If you think I am in equanimity or I am not, please let me know about that too.

Thanks again,
Sriram.

Edit: spelling
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Nikolai , modified 12 Years ago at 1/14/12 5:03 AM
Created 12 Years ago at 1/14/12 5:03 AM

RE: Does this sound like Equanimity?

Posts: 1677 Join Date: 1/23/10 Recent Posts
I would say you probably are at equanimity. Why not keep going. If you haven't already gotten stream entry, it will be a good jumping board to PCE and actualist practice.

Keep doing what you did with the chest sensations....

Today I was trying to see impermanence in the sensations of chest area as per some thread I read.. first came a sensation/tension which felt like craving to belong.. I looked closer and it looked like its made up of more sensations.. seen to be impermanent, then came anxiety, then another feeling that felt like anguish.. which I couldn't see why its impermanent.. will try to do that tomorrow. Inbetween I had subtle sensations in the crown area.

...with all sensations experienced non-stop. Let the mind's attention take the whole head and upper body in a wide focus. Observe everything that arises in that panoramic focus as you did with the chest sensations. Within all of that wide focus, observe the sense of 'self' as it is. Include it in the mix as just more sensations, images, thoughts, impersonal, impermanent phenomena. Let it all just be one big soupy mass of phenomena and sort of sit back and watch what happens with open wondrous curiosity, which even has that wondrous curiosity itself be seen as also just a part of that one big soupy mass of phenomena.

Nick
Sriram Arya, modified 12 Years ago at 1/14/12 9:53 AM
Created 12 Years ago at 1/14/12 9:53 AM

RE: Does this sound like Equanimity?

Posts: 31 Join Date: 1/11/12 Recent Posts
Nikolai .:
I would say you probably are at equanimity. Why not keep going.

Thanks for your reply Nick! I understand the fallacies in judging another person's state. Still its a bit reassuring to hear that because I have done some retrofitting, even if it makes no difference to where I am.

Nikolai .:

If you haven't already gotten stream entry, it will be a good jumping board to PCE and actualist practice.

Nope, no stream entry yet. So I can use this as a jumping board for actualist practice.. that sounds more enticing to me than stream entry. one of the main doubts I had I was whether I will definitely fall back to re-observation if I don't get to the path. I have confidence in re-navigating that territory, but I guess its better to avoid falling back if its possible. I don't mind staying in the current state at all.. there is so much space to work at, its clear and also so much scope for creativity.

Nikolai .:

Keep doing what you did with the chest sensations....

Today I was trying to see impermanence in the sensations of chest area as per some thread I read.. first came a sensation/tension which felt like craving to belong.. I looked closer and it looked like its made up of more sensations.. seen to be impermanent, then came anxiety, then another feeling that felt like anguish.. which I couldn't see why its impermanent.. will try to do that tomorrow. Inbetween I had subtle sensations in the crown area.

...with all sensations experienced non-stop. Let the mind's attention take the whole head and upper body in a wide focus. Observe everything that arises in that panoramic focus as you did with the chest sensations. Within all of that wide focus, observe the sense of 'self' as it is. Include it in the mix as just more sensations, images, thoughts, impersonal, impermanent phenomena. Let it all just be one big soupy mass of phenomena and sort of sit back and watch what happens with open wondrous curiosity, which even has that wondrous curiosity itself be seen as also just a part of that one big soupy mass of phenomena.

Nick


Let me understand this. Just paraphrasing to make sure I got the meaning.. So I get into panormic view mode, observing as much of bodily sensations. Maintaining the focus, I observe the self or whatever thats arising with a sense of being. This is to be done without changing the self, without attraction or aversion I suppose. So after getting bodily awareness and sense of self into the mix, try to include more sensations, thoughts, and more impermanent phenomena and watch this with curiosity that will most probably unfold. and let that sense of curiosity also naturally integrate with this impermanent soup.

My concentration is a bit weak at the moment (time for dinner! hehe).. I will try this and update here.
Sriram Arya, modified 12 Years ago at 2/22/12 10:40 AM
Created 12 Years ago at 2/22/12 10:40 AM

RE: Does this sound like Equanimity?

Posts: 31 Join Date: 1/11/12 Recent Posts
^^Tried what you had suggested a few times, but without success. Non-stop observation of impermanence itself seems to require high concentration, and then there is adding of other images, observer etc, which I'm unable to do so far. Will try it some time again (and the other stuff on HP, like actualizing jhanas) definitely when I get to High E. Btw, What does it lead to?

I want to add what happened in the meantime (practice post, sort of), for my own bookkeeping as well as for anyone who wants to provide some feedback. Any feedback is appreciated!

For few days after my last post, I felt very lazy, and lacked any motivation. Slept a lot. Then one evening, I felt I really understood something, then there was a small event, one at middle of breath and another immediately at the end of breath. My mind got very clear and then it felt like sleep hitting in waves. I was telling to myself "fruition, fruition" but realised this thing is too simple to be fruition, so its maybe conformity, I thought. Resolved to read mctb to figure this out, and slept.

Read mctb next day, and I could easily relate to what was written under Eq. (I had read it before, but at that time what was written under DN ringed so true). Also figured out that I haven't reached high Eq, let alone conformity or fruition and that event is described as well. What a book!

Next couple of days felt remarkably normal. Just enjoyed doing the usual stuff, going out was fun, talking to people was fun. Just watched tv, listened to music.. I could watch silly romantic dramas! (there was no way I could have seen a silly movie a year back). It felt like my normal old self (welcome back, its been ten years).

Figured out what's my technique for mindfulness (which I have been doing all these years unknowingly):
1. If I am getting insights, I'm in the right track. Just scan visual field.
2. If not, pay attention to the most prominent thought. Why it is there? Find its cause.
3. By looking at the cause, if the thought falls away, good. Don't waste time on what I should be doing to prevent these thoughts etc, just go to 1.
4. If looking at the cause doesn't remove this thought, then there is some thing else thats fueling it. Figure this out. Go to step 2.

These days, I try to add other senses to step 1 whenever possible (bodily sensations, bodily awareness, auditory sensations)

to be continued in my next post..
Sriram Arya, modified 12 Years ago at 2/22/12 12:53 PM
Created 12 Years ago at 2/22/12 12:53 PM

RE: Does this sound like Equanimity?

Posts: 31 Join Date: 1/11/12 Recent Posts
^In the method described above, looking/getting insight means breaking it into components and realizing the 3Cs.

continued..

Next few days were mixed, felt like I was back in Reobservation. It wasn't so bad as before though. I thought falling back to RO meant that I would be completely back in DN. That wasn't the case however. Just looking (in a equanimous way) at the factors of clinging that resulted in RO seemed enough to come out. Sometimes it was automatic, other times I had to sit with it to find the factors.

I also started experiencing hallucinations. Wasn't like Daniel's Mush demons thing, for me it was full of personal content. Probably due to reduction in negativity and these hallucinations are taking their place. I was a day dreaming sort of person anyways.

I was alternating between hallucinations and fallback mode. Strange bodily pains, tension headaches in the head. I guessed that because I was so long in DN, I would have formed images of self derived from this, and clinging them to by habit. To deal with this increasing fallbacks, I wanted a simple method rather than hoping to see it in a equanimous way, which is hit and miss thing. I started asking myself "Are my thoughts empty?" as the thoughts from DN were mostly empty thoughts, atleast in my case. (without any supporting sensations, those sensations would have disappeared). I made this a habit and after that I was able to come out more easily, as I would notice these patterns of thought early. Fallbacks reduced after that, but hallucinations continued.

These hallucinations weren't bad, sometimes it would end with me feeling great grattitude to all those who responsible for me being where I was. It felt like I was making peace after all these years of isolation and negativity. I have cried a few times when this grattitude was intense, which was surprising as I haven't cried since my adolescent years. After one of these cry and peace sessions, the hallucinations shifted to having invisible lines emanating from my body into the space and coming back - like a magnetic field. I was walking around like Neo at the end of Matrix part one for some time.

I could see that these hallucinations seriously slow down if not totally halt my progress. They weren't conducive to doing other work anyways. I realised these are again coming due to clinging to some patterns of self. Telling "not self!" whenever I notice a thought emerging was working wonders in eliminating these patterns of thought. Thats because the feeling of self was still fresh, and my juxtopposition of not-self there is like a mini koan, my brain has to decide one or the other. If not-self triumphs, everything's fine as it is one of the fundamental characteristics. If my then feeling of self has succeeded in blocking this realisation of not-self, well there is some work to do. Realising not-self also reveals layers of self that has been wrongly identifed to be oneself.

This I started doing couple of days back. Almost no hallucinations and defintely no fallbacks in these two days. I am getting new insights, and feel like I'm making progress. Yesterday I felt like I was in Eq, I could notice the factors of peace, ease and panoramic perspective, but the panormic perspective only had visual field, not other senses like bodily awareness etc. And no high eq stuff yet. I know I'm in Eq because I'm sure I have crossed DN, but there is no direct evidence. I guess my doubts will remain until I directly experience formations.
Sriram Arya, modified 12 Years ago at 2/29/12 3:11 AM
Created 12 Years ago at 2/29/12 3:11 AM

RE: Does this sound like Equanimity?

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Practice update continued..

I had some irritation in the right eye.. reflexively rubbed and it became red and remained like that for whole day. Applied eyedrops and it got a bit better, but there is still some strain in the eye (its been 4 days now). Also some head ache, sometimes in between the eye brows, sometimes at the back of the head.

I am discovering that I have a lot of obsessions. Obsessions about how it should be, how should I be in relation to others, obsessions about knowing what the present experience, past experience, obsession about looking at or not looking at these obsessions.. And it seems like these obsessions have a physical sensation attached to them, at the top part of my eyes. Obsession about obsessions seem to be associated with side of the eyes.

May be these insights and my eye issues are correlated.. I don't know. Has anybody had a similar feeling? i.e., like feelings of anxiety etc having chest based sensations, may be the obsessions are related to sensations in the eyes?

I am learning to look at these obsessions equanimously and the strain seems to be lessening. I am also getting less caught up in these obsessions. The side effect of reduction in these obsessions is loss of memory, I forgot two things yesterday, one of which was embarrassing (forgot to take my wallet while dining out.. had to explain them and promised to pay next day emoticon ). I have a reputation of not forgetting things, and I don't remember making such a big error.. Have to double check things in the future.
Change A, modified 12 Years ago at 2/29/12 5:42 AM
Created 12 Years ago at 2/29/12 5:42 AM

RE: Does this sound like Equanimity?

Posts: 791 Join Date: 5/24/10 Recent Posts
Sriram Ad:
May be these insights and my eye issues are correlated.. I don't know. Has anybody had a similar feeling? i.e., like feelings of anxiety etc having chest based sensations, may be the obsessions are related to sensations in the eyes?


Redness in my eyes has been a problem for me since childhood. A doctor who tried to treat it when I was a kid gave up after trying different approaches.

A few years ago the eye problem aggravated with the increase in stress in my life. Eventually, I had to use eye-drops twice daily for the itchiness/redness to be brought under control.

It is only recently that my eyes have been feeling better and the redness has decreased a lot (this happened because of benefits of meditation mostly and also somewhat because of change in lifestyle). It was after noticing this difference that my mother mentioned about the failed treatment from the doctor because I didn't remember it.

I also used to have much better memory and now it isn't what it used to be.
Sriram Arya, modified 12 Years ago at 2/29/12 8:50 AM
Created 12 Years ago at 2/29/12 8:50 AM

RE: Does this sound like Equanimity?

Posts: 31 Join Date: 1/11/12 Recent Posts
Thanks Aman for sharing that. Its probably not common I guess, search on obsession+eye+insight is not giving any relevant results.

My short term memory has taken a nosedive for sure. I'm not able to figure out why I am doing something. This would very rarely happen before, and even then I would figure out 95% of the context. Now its happening quite often and I'm not able to figure out even 5%.
Change A, modified 12 Years ago at 2/29/12 9:05 AM
Created 12 Years ago at 2/29/12 9:05 AM

RE: Does this sound like Equanimity?

Posts: 791 Join Date: 5/24/10 Recent Posts
It is quite common, search on stress+eye+strain.
Sriram Arya, modified 12 Years ago at 2/29/12 10:39 AM
Created 12 Years ago at 2/29/12 10:39 AM

RE: Does this sound like Equanimity?

Posts: 31 Join Date: 1/11/12 Recent Posts
Aman A.:
It is quite common, search on stress+eye+strain.


Ha! How did I miss that? Tunnel vision - I was looking for an article that directly relates obsession with sensations in the eye emoticon

So my obsessions are related to stress that is causing eye strain. However, I can pick up one-to-one relations between stress in different parts of the eye and different obsessions. Have to analyse these sensations more thoroughly.

Will work on the eye soothening exercises. Thanks for that tip Aman!
Change A, modified 12 Years ago at 2/29/12 6:29 PM
Created 12 Years ago at 2/29/12 6:29 PM

RE: Does this sound like Equanimity?

Posts: 791 Join Date: 5/24/10 Recent Posts
Sriram Ad:
Ha! How did I miss that? Tunnel vision - I was looking for an article that directly relates obsession with sensations in the eye emoticon

So my obsessions are related to stress that is causing eye strain. However, I can pick up one-to-one relations between stress in different parts of the eye and different obsessions. Have to analyse these sensations more thoroughly.

Will work on the eye soothening exercises. Thanks for that tip Aman!


You are welcome.

I think while trying to analyze those sensations more thoroughly, there is a likelihood that the tunnel vision might come into effect again which will be a hinderance. So I would recommend that you try the Mahasi noting practice as a formal meditation practice.

http://www.buddhanet.net/imol/pracexer.htm
Sriram Arya, modified 12 Years ago at 2/29/12 9:48 PM
Created 12 Years ago at 2/29/12 9:48 PM

RE: Does this sound like Equanimity?

Posts: 31 Join Date: 1/11/12 Recent Posts
Aman A.:


I think while trying to analyze those sensations more thoroughly, there is a likelihood that the tunnel vision might come into effect again which will be a hinderance. So I would recommend that you try the Mahasi noting practice as a formal meditation practice.



Hey, I'm not into formal meditation practices. The only time I have sat in recent years is to see what annapanna was about, out of curiousity. I believe what mctb says, i.e., meditation practices takes a long time to master and what works is the best.

My object of meditation is my thoughts. And I try to be aware of them whole day. I try to be aware of my intentions as I type these letters, whether it is to share or desire to impress or obsession to communicate what I think or feel. When thoughts stop or slow down, I try to include visual, tactile, bodily awareness and auditory (in that order).

Thanks for your suggestion, I hope you understand my reasons.
Sriram Arya, modified 12 Years ago at 3/20/12 9:22 AM
Created 12 Years ago at 3/20/12 9:22 AM

RE: Does this sound like Equanimity?

Posts: 31 Join Date: 1/11/12 Recent Posts
Looks like I have moved onto early mastery from low eq.

I had glimpses of the 5th and the 6th jana. What struck me was that this was so similar to the experience I had five years back, when I was in the stage of dissolution, which I had labelled as a pce. Now it seems more appropriate to think of that experience as a jhana, with my insight stage solidifying into 3rd, followed by 4th, 5th and 6th. After that experience, when my mind was relatively calm, I could incline my mind to see the 5th jhana characteristics (objects having a different feel based on the nearness to me, in a panoramic perspective). I thought this was due to pce containing arupa characteristics (which I had read in this forum)

Can anyone describe differences between arupa jhana and pce? The lack of form can be mistaken as a lack of being, so barring that, are there any other differences? This will help me in removing my misunderstandings.