Metta causing dukkha

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C T W, modified 12 Years ago at 1/23/12 10:25 AM
Created 12 Years ago at 1/23/12 10:25 AM

Metta causing dukkha

Posts: 19 Join Date: 1/15/12 Recent Posts
I'd like some input on the idea of love and compassion for another causing personal suffering. How do you handle the pain caused by seeing the suffering of others, especially when there is nothing you can do to help them?
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Beoman Claudiu Dragon Emu Fire Golem, modified 12 Years ago at 1/23/12 10:50 AM
Created 12 Years ago at 1/23/12 10:49 AM

RE: Metta causing dukkha

Posts: 2227 Join Date: 10/27/10 Recent Posts
1. Feel how much it sucks to personally suffer.
2. Realize that personally suffering does nothing to alleviate the suffering of others. Suffering clouds sensible reasoning and makes it more difficult to do anything about an already-sucky situation.
3. Use #1 and #2 to fuel intent to no longer personally suffer, for the benefit of yourself (so it doesn't suck so much for you) and others (so you can better help it not suck for them).
4. ???
5. Profit!
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Beoman Claudiu Dragon Emu Fire Golem, modified 12 Years ago at 1/23/12 11:20 AM
Created 12 Years ago at 1/23/12 11:02 AM

RE: Metta causing dukkha

Posts: 2227 Join Date: 10/27/10 Recent Posts
Also note that the purpose of metta isn't to cause you to suffer (on account of others), but, among other things, to subdue ill-will and anger towards others.

That is to say: if you're currently angry or hostile, then cultivate metta. If you're currently sorrowful from the plight of others, then cultivate something else, like mudita, or the appreciation of being alive.

Also, try this: ask yourself, 'would I wish this suffering (pain caused by others' suffering) on anyone?' and really consider that question
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Daniel M Ingram, modified 12 Years ago at 1/23/12 12:28 PM
Created 12 Years ago at 1/23/12 12:28 PM

RE: Metta causing dukkha

Posts: 3268 Join Date: 4/20/09 Recent Posts
Equanimity is the traditional and practical antidote: It helps counteract codependence, the near enemy of interdependence. Codependence is a perennial problem in this business. Equanimity should be practiced with the others.

"All beings are the true heirs of their karma. Their happiness depends upon their actions and not upon my wishes for them."

Also recognizing that indifference is the near enemy of Equanimity helps keep this from becoming apathy, just as recognizing that pity is the near enemy of compassion, etc.

The Brahma Viharas benefit from a more complete package approach and the support of their package of teachings that surround them.

Further, taking them to the level of jhana eliminates a lot of their problems, as the feeling of compassion radiating at jhanic level is quite different from the lower-level feeling "oh, there is so much suffering, Argh!" which not taking it to that level can produce.

Then there are the strategies that eliminate compassion in the traditional sense altogether and replace it with other non-affective aspects, but I would refer to those who say they have done this, as I merely report their reports.
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Beoman Claudiu Dragon Emu Fire Golem, modified 12 Years ago at 1/23/12 1:59 PM
Created 12 Years ago at 1/23/12 1:59 PM

RE: Metta causing dukkha

Posts: 2227 Join Date: 10/27/10 Recent Posts
Daniel M. Ingram:
Equanimity is the traditional and practical antidote: It helps counteract codependence, the near enemy of interdependence. Codependence is a perennial problem in this business. Equanimity should be practiced with the others.

"All beings are the true heirs of their karma. Their happiness depends upon their actions and not upon my wishes for them."

Ah yes, that's the one. Another phrase that I liked that helped drive this point home:

"Then again, the disciple of the noble ones considers this: 'I am not anyone's anything anywhere; nor is anything of mine in anyone anywhere.'" MN 106
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C T W, modified 12 Years ago at 1/23/12 7:17 PM
Created 12 Years ago at 1/23/12 7:17 PM

RE: Metta causing dukkha

Posts: 19 Join Date: 1/15/12 Recent Posts
Thanks, that adds a little to the puzzle. Equanimity, metta, and mudita...I've been working on equanimity and metta. The "mudita" is definitely missing during the times I get overwhelmed. Metta also tends to get kind of one sided (the person I'm concerned for is being harmed by another, while they are incapable of defending against said harm). I've had limited success cultivating metta for the perpetrator of harm at times. I know I have noble intent, but fear for the harmed spawns anger for the one that harms. That makes it difficult to maintain mudita. I'm sorry if I'm being vague, but I don't want to get into too much detail on the public side of the forums I would consider talking at greater length in PM's, IF I thought there were some good that could come of it). Airing detail in public would be pushing too far toward wrong speech.

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