I am completely confused by noting.

Keith Payne, modified 12 Years ago at 1/24/12 1:00 PM
Created 12 Years ago at 1/24/12 1:00 PM

I am completely confused by noting.

Posts: 3 Join Date: 12/12/11 Recent Posts
Hello,
I've read through a bunch of posts and MCTB and talked to a dharma friend of mine about this and I still am not getting it through my skull, so I'm hoping someone here might be able to explain this in a way I can get my practice around. I'm working with noting practice and when I try to use words, i.e. touching, pressure, warmth, lifting, anxiety...I experience not being able to keep up with everything I'm experiencing...and sometimes I get locked up or overloaded and then it just feels like buzzing all over. So I read some more and a friend of mine told me to use a "marker" like "ta ta ta or dat dat dat" and then I saw that on here too. So I'm trying that now and same thing...I get confused about what I'm paying attention to. Not the sensations, but it feels like I'm inside a popcorn popper...or that booth with all the lottery ping pong balls...stuff is just flying everywhere. It feels confusing. I am aware that I may be over-thinking this, but I'm not even sure what it is or what I'm thinking too much about. As muddy as this may be...any insight from folks that can make some sense of it would be great,
Thanks,
Keith
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Beoman Claudiu Dragon Emu Fire Golem, modified 12 Years ago at 1/24/12 1:19 PM
Created 12 Years ago at 1/24/12 1:08 PM

RE: I am completely confused by noting.

Posts: 2227 Join Date: 10/27/10 Recent Posts
Try this: resolve to make a note once per second. When the time to note comes, just note the grossest sensation out of the many sensations going on (the one that stands out the most). Note one sensation at a time, but keep track of all of them. And if you feel overwhelmed and that is the overriding experience, just note 'overwhelmed' as that is a sensation too. And if nothing sticks out in particular then note 'neutral' as that is a sensation too. The 1/sec note will offer some steady pacing, meanwhile you'll still be noticing more than just the thing(s) you're noting.

Two things to watch out for: The 'far enemy' of this would be if you just stop noting. In that case, resume noting 1/sec (even if the note is 'racing' or 'too-fast' or 'confused'). The 'near enemy' of this would be if the noting becomes cursory - you just say a word without having actually noticed that sensation, or you just start repeating a word even though the sensation is gone. In this case, just re-focus on noting something that was actually sensed.

Also, nothing says you can't focus on relaxing a bit or trying to be more tranquil (if you are constantly overwhelmed). Just also note the intention for tranquility when you decide to do that (if you decide to do that).
Keith Payne, modified 12 Years ago at 1/25/12 10:26 AM
Created 12 Years ago at 1/25/12 10:26 AM

RE: I am completely confused by noting.

Posts: 3 Join Date: 12/12/11 Recent Posts
Thanks for that. Slowing it down to one note per second makes things clearer.
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katy steger,thru11615 with thanks, modified 12 Years ago at 1/25/12 10:54 AM
Created 12 Years ago at 1/25/12 10:50 AM

RE: I am completely confused by noting.

Posts: 1740 Join Date: 10/1/11 Recent Posts
HI Keith,

Welcome to the DhO.

Further to what Claudio has offered, I offer the following:

Noting is a form of "mindfulness" practice. Sometimes concentration practices are recommended to be undertaken before mindfulness practices for the very reasons you describe so well, with imagery I like! Popcorn popper, lottery balls...

So, a concentration practice that is useful for beginners and adepts alike is anapanasati: concentration on breath. I do this by focusing on a pillow of air above my upper lip and just below the nostrils, between the nostril edges. from this space I pull in air.

As I pull in air I keep the mind on that space (the pillow of source-air just at my nostrils), versus following the sensations of the breath (meaning I do not follow the nostil hairs being tickles, the throat passage, the lungs filling - these are mindfulness (sensation) practices versus basic concentration on one object).

Now, as I put the mental faculty's ability to concentrate on that pillow of air, many thoughts arise (and pass, arise and pass) and all the while (5 minutes to hours even), my mind is led back gently again and again to the object of concentration (the pillow of air).

Practicing this breathing meditation for a while causes a natural readiness for mindfulness practices like noting. Noting can be, of course, the first meditative practice, however, it can become very irritating/restless when there is no settling of popping thoughts. Concentration forms a gentle settling.

Best wishes.

[edit: spelling, grammar, possible clarity]
Johnny Froth, modified 12 Years ago at 1/25/12 3:29 PM
Created 12 Years ago at 1/25/12 3:29 PM

RE: I am completely confused by noting.

Posts: 59 Join Date: 1/25/12 Recent Posts
Katy,

Can you explain:

katy steger:

Noting is a form of "mindfulness" practice. Sometimes concentration practices are recommended to be undertaken before mindfulness practices ...


I'm still trying to get taxonomies straight in my head. So far my understanding was that there were two (at least) important forms of meditation practice: samatha (concentration or, sometimes, tranquility), and vipassana (insight).

So what is the "mindfulness" kind you talk about. Is that just another way of referring to vipassana?

thx.
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Daniel Johnson, modified 12 Years ago at 1/25/12 4:19 PM
Created 12 Years ago at 1/25/12 4:19 PM

RE: I am completely confused by noting.

Posts: 401 Join Date: 12/16/09 Recent Posts
Finally, someone else who is completely confused by noting. Well, you're not alone. It confuses the living shit out of me.

Have you read this post:
The Hierarchy of Vipassana

That post contains more or less the ideas which have so far helped me in my confusion with noting practice.

I still get very confused, but this is what has helped so far:
I place all the emphasis on noticing what's going on (the sensations that make up my present moment experience) with 100% of my attention to the best of my ability. If noting is a tool which helps that purpose, then I use it. If it's not seeming to help with that purpose, then I just stop noting and pay attention to the sensations of my present moment experience to the best of my ability.

As far as I know, if you are noticing the sensations that make up your experience with as much precision and clarity as you can muster, working your way up the vipassana hierarchy as best you can, then as far as I know, that is the practice.

But, hey... that's just my two cents. Good luck with it. And, when in doubt... note (or notice) the doubt. When confused note (or notice) the confusion.
Keith Payne, modified 12 Years ago at 1/25/12 5:58 PM
Created 12 Years ago at 1/25/12 5:58 PM

RE: I am completely confused by noting.

Posts: 3 Join Date: 12/12/11 Recent Posts
Thanks Daniel....
I will check that post out.

Katy,
Thanks for your suggestions...I've been going back to my concentration practice for a week or so at a time and then switching back and then starting my sits with 10 minutes or so of anapana and the rest of the hour noting the way I learned on retreat.

I appreciate the support.
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katy steger,thru11615 with thanks, modified 12 Years ago at 1/25/12 7:33 PM
Created 12 Years ago at 1/25/12 7:20 PM

RE: I am completely confused by noting.

Posts: 1740 Join Date: 10/1/11 Recent Posts
Hi Johnny Froth -

Welcome to the DhO.

[indent]-- Noting is vipasanna (a translation: to see (passana) clearly (vi)) , and

-- what are intended to be clearly seen are the three characteristics (anicca, anatta, and dukkha), and

-- these characteristics can be seen in attending mindfully to the body, feelings, thinking and dhammas ("hindrances": liking, disliking, drowsiness, distraction, and doubt).
[/indent]

So, in a mindfulness practice one will develop insight of the three characteristics. Insight is realizing the three characteristics (by noting, for example), and those realizations (insights) have to happen through some medium: the medium are the four foundations listed above (sattipathana).

However, before such mindfulness can take place effectively, often (but not always) a person may benefit by developing some concentration.

Effectively, what happens by stabilizing the mind on a single anchor (e.g., the breath) many other thoughts can come and go and, versus feeling lost in such a popcorn popper of many many jumping thoughts, I can always go (indeed the instructions of concentration instruct me to go) back to the anchor: the breath.

Eventually, that ability to calmly abide on one thing (the breath) allows one to then turn that same calm abiding attention to those many many thoughts, the pangs and pleasures and neutral sensations arising in the body, and to the liking, disliking, drowsiness, distraction and doubt.

Does that make sense?

[edit: samatha is one form of concentration practice and it develops tranquility (aka calm abiding) with which to approach vipassana. So, if Keith were not keen on breathing meditation for whatever reason, he could accept his noting efforts with calm abiding. His effort could be to see all that is jumping up (in the mind, the body, emotionally, and in the hindrances) with calm abiding. That can work as a means to start with noting technique. If a person becomes very restless/irritable/cannot calmly abide, then breathing meditation (developing concentration at the air space just below the nostril, above the upper lip) can help train the mind for stabilization. Then, that stability can be applied to noting, for example. What is really useful about breathing meditation is that, by its very physiology (taking over an autonomic process and making it manual which is shown in studies to reduce heart rate and blood pressure and stress) calm abiding is also developed. So breathing meditation is commonly very useful.]