Lingering confusion

Gloria Calabria, modified 14 Years ago at 12/17/09 8:09 AM
Created 14 Years ago at 12/17/09 8:09 AM

Lingering confusion

Posts: 9 Join Date: 12/17/09 Recent Posts
Hoping someone can shed some light and that this might lead to greater clarity. Several years back i had two experiences while talking and listening to another person on the phone. The first conversation was very mundane. Next thing i knew began experiencing (while on the phone lying down in a relaxed state) electricity from the bottom of the feet shooting up through the spine and then pleasurable waves all over this body that also caused the back to arch. Couldn't speak intelligibly and was left in a state of bliss. The second time this happened was doing an argument on the phone with same person. This person and i have fought like cats and dogs via email and on the phone. Have experienced tremendous heart pain and at one point ridiculous attachment to this same person. What i'd really appreciate is some clarity on what took place and even why what took place...uhm...took place. Was it just coincidental or was it specific to the individual that was speaking to me? And finally...though increasingly there is a deepening of connection to THIS and intention to surrender fully to THIS when same person makes an appearance in another forum there is also pain at heart centre.

Thank you in advance anyone who can help this one perhaps see a little bit deeper into this phenomena. As regards the practice done...it is mantram based and entails also witnessing, watching this mind and concerted karma yoga intention and attempt to follow-through. Slowly am giving up all hopes and only seeking to abide by the grace of THIS (what mind calls God).
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Ian And, modified 14 Years ago at 12/18/09 1:15 AM
Created 14 Years ago at 12/18/09 1:15 AM

RE: Lingering confusion

Posts: 785 Join Date: 8/22/09 Recent Posts
With regard to the sensations you felt/experienced. Sensations come and go. Just observe them without becoming too involved with them.

Gloria Calabria:
Hoping someone can shed some light and that this might lead to greater clarity.... The second time this happened was [during] an argument on the phone with same person. This person and i have fought like cats and dogs via email and on the phone. Have experienced tremendous heart pain and at one point ridiculous attachment to this same person.

That right there ought to give you some food for contemplation. You'll have to look inside yourself if you want answers to your question.

Gloria Calabria:

What i'd really appreciate is some clarity on what took place and even why what took place...uhm...took place. Was it just coincidental or was it specific to the individual that was speaking to me? And finally...though increasingly there is a deepening of connection to THIS and intention to surrender fully to THIS when same person makes an appearance in another forum there is also pain at heart centre.

Are you looking for clarity or psychotherapy? Not sure that this is the appropriate venue for the latter.

With regard to the emphasized passage above, you seem to have answered your own question.

With regard to "pain at heart centre", doesn't that equal "attachment"? Only you would know.
Gloria Calabria, modified 14 Years ago at 12/22/09 1:48 AM
Created 14 Years ago at 12/22/09 1:48 AM

RE: Lingering confusion

Posts: 9 Join Date: 12/17/09 Recent Posts
Ian And:
With regard to the sensations you felt/experienced. Sensations come and go. Just observe them without becoming too involved with them.
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that is what i practice and will continue to do so. thank you for your input.
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Gloria Calabria:
Hoping someone can shed some light and that this might lead to greater clarity.... The second time this happened was [during] an argument on the phone with same person. This person and i have fought like cats and dogs via email and on the phone. Have experienced tremendous heart pain and at one point ridiculous attachment to this same person.

That right there ought to give you some food for contemplation. You'll have to look inside yourself if you want answers to your question.
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Lately what makes the most sense to this mind is practicing surrender in each moment...the mind gets distracted sometimes but the mantram suggested by Guru helps bring the mind back to present moment.
================================================================

Gloria Calabria:

What i'd really appreciate is some clarity on what took place and even why what took place...uhm...took place. Was it just coincidental or was it specific to the individual that was speaking to me? And finally...though increasingly there is a deepening of connection to THIS and intention to surrender fully to THIS when same person makes an appearance in another forum there is also pain at heart centre.

Are you looking for clarity or psychotherapy? Not sure that this is the appropriate venue for the latter.
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What i was looking for was clarity...psychotherapy i have participated in and was recently told by the psychiatrist that it looks like there is no more need of it though the option to return to psychotherapy remains available. i no longer feel any need for that. The goal for this one is to surrender completely...then whatever the moment requires from this one can be naturally responded towards..in the moment.

i do appreciate your taking time to respond to the question(s).
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With regard to the emphasized passage above, you seem to have answered your own question.

With regard to "pain at heart centre", doesn't that equal "attachment"? Only you would know.


There is still a slight twinge but with time it appears to be fading. What matters most to this one is practicing surrender and serving THIS...even the longing to merge is beginning to dissipate...i wants to simply remain open and serve. It is possible to go beyond sat/chit/ananda...not to settle for light and sound but one small step at a time.

Namaste - g
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Ian And, modified 14 Years ago at 12/22/09 11:33 AM
Created 14 Years ago at 12/22/09 11:33 AM

RE: Lingering confusion

Posts: 785 Join Date: 8/22/09 Recent Posts
Gloria Calabria:
Ian And:
Gloria Calabria:

Hoping someone can shed some light and that this might lead to greater clarity.... The second time this happened was [during] an argument on the phone with same person. This person and i have fought like cats and dogs via email and on the phone. Have experienced tremendous heart pain and at one point ridiculous attachment to this same person.

That right there ought to give you some food for contemplation. You'll have to look inside yourself if you want answers to your question.

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Lately what makes the most sense to this mind is practicing surrender in each moment...the mind gets distracted sometimes but the mantram suggested by Guru helps bring the mind back to present moment.
================================================================

I would call it "acceptance." But that's okay. Surrender works just as well. The point being that you should recognize the reality of the situation and accept that whatever the other person is doing to "tick you off" thus giving way to the arising of your attachment is momentary and impermanent (anicca). It is a matter of your own arising from ignorance about the situation and not "hanging on to it." You only have control over what you do, not what other people do. In order for the attachment to disappear, the emotional baggage you have invested into this person must dissipate. It is a matter of "insight" into the processes (leading to attachment) that are taking place within the mind which corrects the ignorance of the conditioned response (anger and/or attachment) you are experiencing.

Gloria Calabria:
IanAnd:
Gloria Calabria:

What i'd really appreciate is some clarity on what took place and even why what took place...uhm...took place. Was it just coincidental or was it specific to the individual that was speaking to me? And finally...though increasingly there is a deepening of connection to THIS and intention to surrender fully to THIS when same person makes an appearance in another forum there is also pain at heart centre.

Are you looking for clarity or psychotherapy? Not sure that this is the appropriate venue for the latter.
===========================================================================
What i was looking for was clarity...psychotherapy i have participated in and was recently told by the psychiatrist that it looks like there is no more need of it though the option to return to psychotherapy remains available. i no longer feel any need for that. The goal for this one is to surrender completely...then whatever the moment requires from this one can be naturally responded towards..in the moment.

i do appreciate your taking time to respond to the question(s).
=========================================================================

With regard to the emphasized passage above, you seem to have answered your own question.

With regard to "pain at heart centre", doesn't that equal "attachment"? Only you would know.


There is still a slight twinge but with time it appears to be fading. What matters most to this one is practicing surrender and serving THIS...even the longing to merge is beginning to dissipate...i wants to simply remain open and serve. It is possible to go beyond sat/chit/ananda...not to settle for light and sound but one small step at a time.

Time heals all emotional wounds, and hastens acceptance of "what is." The mind moves on from the pain it experienced, and becomes more open to acceptance (or "surrender" as you put it). The psychotherapy you underwent is the mental health community's equivalent to Buddhist "insight" into the reality of the matter. It is a matter of letting the other person "be just as they are," warts and all, just in this moment, and recognizing that YOU do not need to become attached to that momentary reality. Attachment only impedes your ability to "move on with things." Drop it, let it go, and move on, allowing the other person to "be" who they are until (hopefully) they gain some insight into themselves and quit being the kind of person who upsets you.
Gloria Calabria, modified 14 Years ago at 12/22/09 7:21 PM
Created 14 Years ago at 12/22/09 7:21 PM

RE: Lingering confusion

Posts: 9 Join Date: 12/17/09 Recent Posts
Ian And:
Gloria Calabria:
Ian And:
Gloria Calabria:

Hoping someone can shed some light and that this might lead to greater clarity.... The second time this happened was [during] an argument on the phone with same person. This person and i have fought like cats and dogs via email and on the phone. Have experienced tremendous heart pain and at one point ridiculous attachment to this same person.

That right there ought to give you some food for contemplation. You'll have to look inside yourself if you want answers to your question.

================================================================
Lately what makes the most sense to this mind is practicing surrender in each moment...the mind gets distracted sometimes but the mantram suggested by Guru helps bring the mind back to present moment.
================================================================

I would call it "acceptance." But that's okay. Surrender works just as well. The point being that you should recognize the reality of the situation and accept that whatever the other person is doing to "tick you off" thus giving way to the arising of your attachment is momentary and impermanent (anicca). It is a matter of your own arising from ignorance about the situation and not "hanging on to it." You only have control over what you do, not what other people do. In order for the attachment to disappear, the emotional baggage you have invested into this person must dissipate. It is a matter of "insight" into the processes (leading to attachment) that are taking place within the mind which corrects the ignorance of the conditioned response (anger and/or attachment) you are experiencing.
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Surrender gets closer, Ian, to how i experience what is taking place moment to moment but acceptance and paying attention are the other components and reminders for me. There is definitely increasing insight when the attention is there at the place some call the third eye. Siddhis arise and siddhis go...i try not to get too excited anymore when they arise and just accept they arise for a pragmatic reason, to serve and then let go. Can intuitively feel and sense the other's mindset when face to face increasingly. And i do ask this Presence to show me how to serve and not get puffed up by the siddhis that arise and then go. There is a lingering fear the siddhis will contribute to greater egoism which would then stand between 'me' and THIS.
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Gloria Calabria:
IanAnd:
Gloria Calabria:

What i'd really appreciate is some clarity on what took place and even why what took place...uhm...took place. Was it just coincidental or was it specific to the individual that was speaking to me? And finally...though increasingly there is a deepening of connection to THIS and intention to surrender fully to THIS when same person makes an appearance in another forum there is also pain at heart centre.

Are you looking for clarity or psychotherapy? Not sure that this is the appropriate venue for the latter.
===========================================================================
What i was looking for was clarity...psychotherapy i have participated in and was recently told by the psychiatrist that it looks like there is no more need of it though the option to return to psychotherapy remains available. i no longer feel any need for that. The goal for this one is to surrender completely...then whatever the moment requires from this one can be naturally responded towards..in the moment.

i do appreciate your taking time to respond to the question(s).
=========================================================================

With regard to the emphasized passage above, you seem to have answered your own question.

With regard to "pain at heart centre", doesn't that equal "attachment"? Only you would know.


There is still a slight twinge but with time it appears to be fading. What matters most to this one is practicing surrender and serving THIS...even the longing to merge is beginning to dissipate...i wants to simply remain open and serve. It is possible to go beyond sat/chit/ananda...not to settle for light and sound but one small step at a time.

Time heals all emotional wounds, and hastens acceptance of "what is." The mind moves on from the pain it experienced, and becomes more open to acceptance (or "surrender" as you put it). The psychotherapy you underwent is the mental health community's equivalent to Buddhist "insight" into the reality of the matter. It is a matter of letting the other person "be just as they are," warts and all, just in this moment, and recognizing that YOU do not need to become attached to that momentary reality. Attachment only impedes your ability to "move on with things." Drop it, let it go, and move on, allowing the other person to "be" who they are until (hopefully) they gain some insight into themselves and quit being the kind of person who upsets you.

===================================================================================
thank you for your explanation...situations do keep arising in which i encounter a state of mind that is demonstrating anger and much projection of what some call the shadow aspects. i find that going into the mantram slows time down so the responses can be sensitive and far more appropriate. The person i was referencing and i no longer speak but what was puzzling me was the why of the experience as in why 'him' and not some other. Increasingly though this seems to be one of those questions that will either get addressed down the road or never. My attachment to the answer i have realized is just another obstacle to be let go of and your responses helped me see this so thank you.

Not sure how to change the status to resolved but if you or someone could teach me how to do that...that would be cool.

Namate,

g
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Ian And, modified 14 Years ago at 12/22/09 11:58 PM
Created 14 Years ago at 12/22/09 11:58 PM

RE: Lingering confusion

Posts: 785 Join Date: 8/22/09 Recent Posts
Gloria Calabria:
There is definitely increasing insight when the attention is there at the place some call the third eye. Siddhis arise and siddhis go...i try not to get too excited anymore when they arise and just accept they arise for a pragmatic reason, to serve and then let go. Can intuitively feel and sense the other's mindset when face to face increasingly. And i do ask this Presence to show me how to serve and not get puffed up by the siddhis that arise and then go.

Well, now. Perhaps we are not talking on the same page. One of the first things you need to understand is that there is no "Presence" other than what is fabricated by the mind. The "Presence" you "perceive" is just the clarity of the mind observing a phenomenon (in this case, the situation you've been writing about).

Gloria Calabria:
The person i was referencing and i no longer speak but what was puzzling me was the why of the experience as in why 'him' and not some other. Increasingly though this seems to be one of those questions that will either get addressed down the road or never. My attachment to the answer i have realized is just another obstacle to be let go of and your responses helped me see this so thank you.

Not sure how to change the status to resolved but if you or someone could teach me how to do that...that would be cool.

The way you "change the status" of the situation is to recognize that the phenomenon you are observing is not what you are perceiving it to be. This is a perfect practical example of how to rid oneself of anger (or whatever unwholesome emotion or feeling that one is experiencing). The anger that you experienced was the result of a difference between two personalities -- between to "I"s (or however one indicates a plural "I"), between two egos. As long as you acknowledge yourself to yourself as an ego, there will be the "one who feels and emotes" behind that ego. Seeing the five aggregates as impermanent (anicca), unsatisfactory (dukkha) and not self or without self nature (anatta), frees one from the mistaken identity that is the root cause of dissatisfaction (dukkha). This is why the Buddha taught about these three characteristics of existence and made their study and contemplation a centerpiece of his Dhamma.

The Buddha taught that "all sankharas (volitional mental formations) are impermanent; all sankharas are unsatisfactory; and all dhammas (phenomena) are without self." Once you realize these truths, while the emotions may still exist and arise from time to time, they will not be laden with the same power to overwhelm one. Replace ignorance (about yourself) with insight and wisdom into the true characteristics of reality. This is the way to end dukkha. "Seeing things as they actually are" brings peace (and eventually contentment).

Do not burden yourself with other people's problems. You have enough of your own to resolve. Let go and let live. And focus upon mindfulness of these three characteristics in every thing you do until you recognize them as the reality that they are. And in that recognition lies your deliverance (and liberation).
Gloria Calabria, modified 14 Years ago at 12/23/09 4:29 AM
Created 14 Years ago at 12/23/09 1:16 AM

RE: Lingering confusion

Posts: 9 Join Date: 12/17/09 Recent Posts
Ian And:
Gloria Calabria:
There is definitely increasing insight when the attention is there at the place some call the third eye. Siddhis arise and siddhis go...i try not to get too excited anymore when they arise and just accept they arise for a pragmatic reason, to serve and then let go. Can intuitively feel and sense the other's mindset when face to face increasingly. And i do ask this Presence to show me how to serve and not get puffed up by the siddhis that arise and then go.



Well, now. Perhaps we are not talking on the same page. One of the first things you need to understand is that there is no "Presence" other than what is fabricated by the mind. The "Presence" you "perceive" is just the clarity of the mind observing a phenomenon (in this case, the situation you've been writing about).
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i use the term 'Presence' because there is a strong feeling of awareness that is more than little 'i'. Also...previously there was an experience in which the bottom dropped out. i was at work doing work at the desk and the mantram given by Guru started up. Mind followed mantram and then there was a dropping out sensation. From the sensation came no more I...there was just Oneness...yet there were also forms. A coworker came to the desk and 'i' began laughing telling her there was no 'me' and there is no 'you'. Eventually the i returned.

Previous to this another dropping out experience and temporarily loss of I took place in an airport after saying goodbye to a different Guru...same sequence of mantram starting up and mind following the mantram. i existed in a state of no sense of separate I-ness for 3 days. There was impartial love for all including the daughters...nothing was special or preferred but love was the Ocean in which all existed.

Since then when ongoing mantram takes place there is a sense of Presence.
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Gloria Calabria:
The person i was referencing and i no longer speak but what was puzzling me was the why of the experience as in why 'him' and not some other. Increasingly though this seems to be one of those questions that will either get addressed down the road or never. My attachment to the answer i have realized is just another obstacle to be let go of and your responses helped me see this so thank you.

Not sure how to change the status to resolved but if you or someone could teach me how to do that...that would be cool.

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No what i meant was how to change the status in this post from 'Awaiting Answer' to 'Resolved'.
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The way you "change the status" of the situation is to recognize that the phenomenon you are observing is not what you are perceiving it to be. This is a perfect practical example of how to rid oneself of anger (or whatever unwholesome emotion or feeling that one is experiencing). The anger that you experienced was the result of a difference between two personalities -- between to "I"s (or however one indicates a plural "I"), between two egos. As long as you acknowledge yourself to yourself as an ego, there will be the "one who feels and emotes" behind that ego. Seeing the five aggregates as impermanent (anicca), unsatisfactory (dukkha) and not self or without self nature (anatta), frees one from the mistaken identity that is the root cause of dissatisfaction (dukkha). This is why the Buddha taught about these three characteristics of existence and made their study and contemplation a centerpiece of his Dhamma.
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Sometimes anger arises but there is also a Witness and the anger, at times...not always but at times becomes a kind of tool or useful weapon...skillful means. The intention is not to do harm but to keep the other from doing harm. Anger isn't always inappropriately expressed i am learning. But yes...when it is reactive and unconscious then that is a different matter. i have experienced what maybe a psychic connection with this person previously mentioned but since there is a determination to surrender to what Is...to reality as suchness i am focusing on simply staying present. There are longer periods now it seems of expanded consciousness and awareness in the present. And i watch this mind and this body for signs of clutching and clinging. Nonjudgemental witnessing and labeling, "oh ego"..."oh contraction"..."oh attachment". The mantram helps alot.

Thank you for your input.

Namaste,

g

P.S. i will try to get ahold of the creator of this forum's book(s)...i would like to learn more about this particular path. My background has been in Surat Shabd Yoga as well as Vajrayana and Kundalini shaktipat initiation and practice. Kind of all over the place but recently focusing on the Surat Shabd Yoga practices as shared by the Guru.

The Buddha taught that "all sankharas (volitional mental formations) are impermanent; all sankharas are unsatisfactory; and all dhammas (phenomena) are without self." Once you realize these truths, while the emotions may still exist and arise from time to time, they will not be laden with the same power to overwhelm one. Replace ignorance (about yourself) with insight and wisdom into the true characteristics of reality. This is the way to end dukkha. "Seeing things as they actually are" brings peace (and eventually contentment).

Do not burden yourself with other people's problems. You have enough of your own to resolve. Let go and let live. And focus upon mindfulness of these three characteristics in every thing you do until you recognize them as the reality that they are. And in that recognition lies your deliverance (and liberation).

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oh...and probably should mention that the person with whom i used to quarrel is someone i never met in person...we met through a website, talked on the phone and via email for a number of years (off and on) which is probably a factor that contributed to the perceived and felt 'strangeness' of the whole interaction. But i do understand that in the big scheme of things???...it doesn't mean anything really. i am arriving at the place/a place where i do wish him well and am grateful for what he shared with me as regards understandings. i don't know what you mean about 'do not burden yourself with other people's problems', Ian. Other people come to express what they regard as their problems and it is no burden to practice the Presence as they choose to do so towards this one. What comes through doesn't seem to come from 'me' anyways. When others share their sense of sorrow or anger or any other state of mind what 'i' do is internally chant the mantram and just be present for them. Sometimes some understanding comes through me (this container/vessel). i regard myself increasingly as a puppet and sometimes feel myself to being emptied out. Much of what i experience comes through in terms of kinestetic sensations...at times a great deal of pressure around the forehead...sometimes a lifting up lightness but pull also at the crown. Ishtdev has become light and there is sound from the right side of the head into the center. Whatever comes i do want to surrender, accept and pay attention.

Now off to bed i go.

Once again...namaste