Experiences of Metta - Discussion
Experiences of Metta
Bagpuss The Gnome, modified 12 Years ago at 2/1/12 2:55 PM
Created 12 Years ago at 2/1/12 2:51 PM
Experiences of Metta
Posts: 704 Join Date: 11/2/11 Recent Posts
To balance my practice a bit, and combat aversion in the spirit of right-intention I've started doing some metta practice according to these instructions. The fear is of course that I'm eating into my vipassana time. The hope is that it will strengthen concentration and aid good sleep!
I just did 40mins and I must say it was rather pleasant. I can't be sure what I was feeling was not just concentration though, as I repeat "be safe, be happy, be healthy, live with ease" which would probably work pretty good even without the "projecting" of metta (something again im unsure if I am feeling/doing correctly). At times, with certain easy individuals it really did feel like a force projecting from me to them. Is that how it feels for you?
When it was good, a warm, tingly all through the body (not just on the skin) feeling of low-level pleasure suffused my entire body. It was very much akin to some of the stuff that I feel in my anapana practice, but more "spread out" and even. Some 20mins or so later I stil have this feeling in the body.
Can anyone share their experiences of Metta practice in general?
How do you do it? How often? How long? What happens when you do it?
Just looking to compare notes...
I just did 40mins and I must say it was rather pleasant. I can't be sure what I was feeling was not just concentration though, as I repeat "be safe, be happy, be healthy, live with ease" which would probably work pretty good even without the "projecting" of metta (something again im unsure if I am feeling/doing correctly). At times, with certain easy individuals it really did feel like a force projecting from me to them. Is that how it feels for you?
When it was good, a warm, tingly all through the body (not just on the skin) feeling of low-level pleasure suffused my entire body. It was very much akin to some of the stuff that I feel in my anapana practice, but more "spread out" and even. Some 20mins or so later I stil have this feeling in the body.
Can anyone share their experiences of Metta practice in general?
How do you do it? How often? How long? What happens when you do it?
Just looking to compare notes...
Nikolai , modified 12 Years ago at 2/2/12 2:35 AM
Created 12 Years ago at 2/1/12 3:15 PM
RE: Experiences of Metta
Posts: 1677 Join Date: 1/23/10 Recent PostsBagpuss The Gnome:
To balance my practice a bit, and combat aversion in the spirit of right-intention I've stared doing some metta practice according to these instructions. The fear is of course that I'm eating into my vipassana time, the hope is that it will strengthen concentration and aid good sleep!
I just did 40mins and I must say it was rather pleasant. I can't be sure what I was feeling was not just concentration though, as I repeat "be safe, be happy, be healthy, live with ease" which would probably work pretty good even without the "projecting" of metta (something again im unsure if I am feeling/doing correctly). At times, with certain easy individuals it really did feel like a force projecting from me to them. Is that how it feels for you?
When it was good, a warm, tingly all through the body (not just on the skin) feeling of low-level pleasure suffused my entire body. It was very much akin to some of the stuff that I feel in my anapana practice, but more "spread out" and even. Some 20mins or so later I stil have this feeling in the body.
Can anyone share their experiences of Metta practice in general?
How do you do it? How often? How long? What happens when you do it?
Just looking to compare notes...
I just did 40mins and I must say it was rather pleasant. I can't be sure what I was feeling was not just concentration though, as I repeat "be safe, be happy, be healthy, live with ease" which would probably work pretty good even without the "projecting" of metta (something again im unsure if I am feeling/doing correctly). At times, with certain easy individuals it really did feel like a force projecting from me to them. Is that how it feels for you?
When it was good, a warm, tingly all through the body (not just on the skin) feeling of low-level pleasure suffused my entire body. It was very much akin to some of the stuff that I feel in my anapana practice, but more "spread out" and even. Some 20mins or so later I stil have this feeling in the body.
Can anyone share their experiences of Metta practice in general?
How do you do it? How often? How long? What happens when you do it?
Just looking to compare notes...
It does not have to eat into your 'vipassana time' I found doing metta practice (when I used to do it a year ago), very, very rewarding and insightful.
You said you perceive a 'force' that projects from you when you send out your good will and compassionate intentions. Instead of labeling this experience as a 'force', perhaps pay attention to where attention goes. Outwards into space? If so, instead of labeling the outward movement of attention as the 'force' (although that would be very jedi cool), you could become aware of perceptions of 'space' as you chanted your metta. You could then start investigating 'sankhara' and any mental movemnts juxtaposed against that anchor of 'space'. The relationship of 'space' and compassion (karuna) could be investigated as part of your 'vipassana' practice at the same time as practicing metta/acts of karuna.
Some interesting related quotes:
"Then again, a monk keeps pervading the first direction[2] with an awareness imbued with good will, likewise the second, likewise the third, likewise the fourth. Thus above, below, & all around, everywhere, in its entirety, he keeps pervading the all-encompassing cosmos with an awareness imbued with good will — abundant, expansive, immeasurable, without hostility, without ill will. He reflects on this and discerns, 'This awareness-release through good will is fabricated & intended. Now whatever is fabricated & intended is inconstant & subject to cessation.' Staying right there, he reaches the ending of the mental fermentations. Or, if not, then — through this very Dhamma-passion, this Dhamma-delight, and from the total wasting away of the first five Fetters — he is due to be reborn [in the Pure Abodes], there to be totally unbound, never again to return from that world.
"This too, householder, is a single quality declared by the Blessed One — the one who knows, the one who sees, worthy & rightly self-awakened — where the unreleased mind of a monk who dwells there heedful, ardent, & resolute becomes released, or his unended fermentations go to their total ending, or he attains the unexcelled security from the yoke that he had not attained before.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.052.than.html
"In this case, monks, a monk cultivates the enlightenment-factor of mindfulness accompanied by loving-kindness and similarly the enlightenment-factors of investigation-of-states, energy, rapture, tranquillity, concentration, equanimity, accompanied by loving-kindness which is based on detachment, dispassion, leading to maturity of surrender. If he wishes to dwell perceiving the repulsive in what is not repulsive, he dwells thus perceiving the repulsive. If he wishes to dwell perceiving the unrepulsive in what is repulsive, he dwells thus perceiving the unrepulsive. If he wishes to dwell perceiving the repulsive both in what is repulsive and what is not repulsive, if he wishes to dwell perceiving the unrepulsive in both..., he dwells thus. If he wishes, avoiding both the repulsive and unrepulsive, to dwell equanimous,[2] mindful and clearly aware,[3] he dwells thus, equanimous, mindful and clearly aware, or, attaining the heart's release called 'beautiful'[4] he abides there. I declare that the heart's release by loving-kindness has the beautiful for its excellence. This is the attainment of a wise monk who penetrates to no higher release.[5]
"And how, monks, does a monk cultivate release by compassion? What is its goal, its excellence, its fruit and its outcome?
"In this, monks, a monk cultivates the enlightenment-factors of mindfulness... equanimity accompanied by compassion... [as above]... he dwells thus, equanimous, mindful, clearly aware or, by passing utterly beyond all perception of objects, by the going-down of perceptions of sensory reactions,[6] by disregarding perceptions of diversity, thinking 'space is infinite,' he attains and dwells in the sphere of infinite space.[7] I declare that the heart's release by compassion has the sphere of infinite space for its excellence. This is the attainment of a wise monk who penetrates to no higher release.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn46/sn46.054x.wlsh.html
"And how, monks, does a monk cultivate release by compassion? What is its goal, its excellence, its fruit and its outcome?
"In this, monks, a monk cultivates the enlightenment-factors of mindfulness... equanimity accompanied by compassion... [as above]... he dwells thus, equanimous, mindful, clearly aware or, by passing utterly beyond all perception of objects, by the going-down of perceptions of sensory reactions,[6] by disregarding perceptions of diversity, thinking 'space is infinite,' he attains and dwells in the sphere of infinite space.[7] I declare that the heart's release by compassion has the sphere of infinite space for its excellence. This is the attainment of a wise monk who penetrates to no higher release.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn46/sn46.054x.wlsh.html
Just my 2 cents of what I'd do if in your situation with what I have experienced.
Bagpuss The Gnome, modified 12 Years ago at 2/2/12 2:24 AM
Created 12 Years ago at 2/2/12 2:24 AM
RE: Experiences of Metta
Posts: 704 Join Date: 11/2/11 Recent PostsIt does not have to eat into your 'vipassana time' I found doing this type of metta practice (when I used to do it a year ago), very, very rewarding and insightful.
Hi Nick, did you mean to link to your Anapanasati post?
You said you perceive a 'force' that projects from you when you send out your good will and compassionate intentions. Instead of labeling this experience as a 'force', perhaps pay attention to where attention goes. Outwards into space? If so, instead of labeling the outward movement of attention as the 'force' (although that would be very jedi cool), you could become aware of perceptions of 'space' as you chanted your metta. You could then start investigating 'sankhara' and any mental movemnts juxtaposed against that anchor of 'space'. The relationship of 'space' and compassion (karuna) could be investigated as part of your 'vipassana' practice at the same time as practicing metta/acts of karuna.
That sounds awesome. I'd love to be able to combine the 2 things. It's a bit hard chanting and payting attention to other things though. I'll have a go tonight and see if I can figure it out. I've decided to do this in my evening sit, as my vipassana usually stinks in the evening anyway! --and yes, it is way jedi cool!
Some interesting related quotes:
This is amazing stuff. Metta doens't get a lot of mention here on Dh0 but to my view it seems quite a lot like AF practice --and I prefer buddhism, it's a mature application with better documentation and a wider support group
...off to RTFM!
Nikolai , modified 12 Years ago at 2/2/12 2:39 AM
Created 12 Years ago at 2/2/12 2:33 AM
RE: Experiences of Metta
Posts: 1677 Join Date: 1/23/10 Recent PostsBagpuss The Gnome:
It does not have to eat into your 'vipassana time' I found doing this type of metta practice (when I used to do it a year ago), very, very rewarding and insightful.
Hi Nick, did you mean to link to your Anapanasati post?
Sorry, screwed up the link here it is:
http://thehamiltonproject.blogspot.com.au/2010/12/nicks-christmas-cheer-boom-boom-super.html
Edit: Hmmm, if the link doesn't work, try scrolling down the front page of the blog to find the yogitoolbox metta practice post from december 2010.
Nikolai , modified 12 Years ago at 2/2/12 2:44 AM
Created 12 Years ago at 2/2/12 2:43 AM
RE: Experiences of Metta
Posts: 1677 Join Date: 1/23/10 Recent PostsBagpuss The Gnome:
That sounds awesome. I'd love to be able to combine the 2 things. It's a bit hard chanting and payting attention to other things though. I'll have a go tonight and see if I can figure it out. I've decided to do this in my evening sit, as my vipassana usually stinks in the evening anyway! --and yes, it is way jedi cool!
You don't have to pay attention to 3 things at a time or even 2 things. You chant, then shift to seeing where attention has gone. If it isa perception of an outward 'space' then drop the metta for a bit and pay attention to 'space' watching for anything else popping up to interrupt/colour/move attention away from 'space', and play around with seeing any mind movements that take the mind away from space. If you get sidetracked and lose that perception of 'space', move back to metta and in particular karuna bhavana and when ready again, perceiving 'space' once more, repeat the sequence.
Nick
Daniel M Ingram, modified 12 Years ago at 2/2/12 4:09 AM
Created 12 Years ago at 2/2/12 4:09 AM
RE: Experiences of Metta
Posts: 3288 Join Date: 4/20/09 Recent Posts
I used to play with metta and the other 3 a lot back in the late 90's and had a lot of fun with it:
Basically initially started with the phrases and tuned into the blips of feeling that would come, then expanded those out by repetition and taking them as object to become more stable jhana of the feeling of metta and would then take that up to the 3rd jhana, which is as far as metta, mudita and karuna go, and then, as I cycled and it would naturally shift to 4th, would take Equanimity as object, then go up to formless realms sometimes or not, then get a Fruition, then go back down to metta or whichever and take the feeling as object again and work up from there.
I find that getting the feeling as just the direct feeling really makes the thing stronger, and at that period it had a bit impact on things, such as my dreams and other interactions.
Just my two cents,
Daniel
Basically initially started with the phrases and tuned into the blips of feeling that would come, then expanded those out by repetition and taking them as object to become more stable jhana of the feeling of metta and would then take that up to the 3rd jhana, which is as far as metta, mudita and karuna go, and then, as I cycled and it would naturally shift to 4th, would take Equanimity as object, then go up to formless realms sometimes or not, then get a Fruition, then go back down to metta or whichever and take the feeling as object again and work up from there.
I find that getting the feeling as just the direct feeling really makes the thing stronger, and at that period it had a bit impact on things, such as my dreams and other interactions.
Just my two cents,
Daniel
Bagpuss The Gnome, modified 12 Years ago at 2/2/12 5:06 AM
Created 12 Years ago at 2/2/12 5:06 AM
RE: Experiences of Metta
Posts: 704 Join Date: 11/2/11 Recent PostsDaniel:
Basically initially started with the phrases and tuned into the blips of feeling that would come, then expanded those out by repetition and taking them as object to become more stable jhana of the feeling of metta and would then take that up to the 3rd jhana, which is as far as metta, mudita and karuna go, and then, as I cycled and it would naturally shift to 4th, would take Equanimity as object, then go up to formless realms sometimes or not, then get a Fruition, then go back down to metta or whichever and take the feeling as object again and work up from there.
Were you able to project those jhanic metta states out to others Daniel? From my experience last night I can certainly imagine how it might be easy to get through jhanas using metta, (and i will test this later!). My primary goal is wear away the general low-level misanthropic attitude I have developed over the years and work on aversion in general though. (which from what I understand currently, would be best served breaking down the barriers between loved ones, neutral ones, enemies etc as metta is eventually projected to all beings..)
Nick, thanks for the link! I will work parts of that into my practice.
Daniel M Ingram, modified 12 Years ago at 2/2/12 5:11 AM
Created 12 Years ago at 2/2/12 5:11 AM
RE: Experiences of Metta
Posts: 3288 Join Date: 4/20/09 Recent Posts
As to projecting it, how that seemed to happen best depended on how deep the jhana was.
With lighter jhana, I could still keep the phrase going and conjure mental images of those involved, categories, people, classes of beings (for those doing the monastic metta practices), etc.
When jhana got heavier, directions were better.
When jhana got really heavy, just the feeling and it going out in generally in all directions seemed to predominate.
With lighter jhana, I could still keep the phrase going and conjure mental images of those involved, categories, people, classes of beings (for those doing the monastic metta practices), etc.
When jhana got heavier, directions were better.
When jhana got really heavy, just the feeling and it going out in generally in all directions seemed to predominate.