Demon Sighting

Gloria Calabria, modified 12 Years ago at 12/25/09 11:06 AM
Created 12 Years ago at 12/25/09 11:06 AM

Demon Sighting

Posts: 9 Join Date: 12/17/09 Recent Posts
Last weekend i was with a friend and fellow meditator at the farmer's market. i was attending to the mantram silently in the mind and saw a demon in broad daylight slowly turn his head and broadly smile at me. i have no doubt it was a demon. Intuitively came the realization that Buddha loved the demons too...there simply was no absence of compassion or wisdom in the Buddha who had been emptied out.

i would just like to know if other more experienced meditators (i cannot help but regard myself as a newbie) have seen various demons in broad daylight with eyes wide open and guess i am seeking confirmation, at some level, that it is alright to love the demons too. The jihad that makes the most sense to me is the jihad within self rather than towards what only appears to be out there.

Thank you for all thoughtful responses,

g
thumbnail
Bruno Loff, modified 12 Years ago at 12/27/09 6:07 AM
Created 12 Years ago at 12/27/09 6:07 AM

RE: Demon Sighting

Posts: 1094 Join Date: 8/30/09 Recent Posts
During the 10-day retreat that I did, a co-retreatant had visions of buddhas, demons, etc. I think this is just fine, just be careful with the level of truth that you ascribe to these visions --- the question "are they really there?" seems to be mostly up to you. I read that careless dealing with these mental strata (or supernatural phenomena, if you prefer) can lead to madness (or what appears like madness to the outside observer, if you prefer).
Natasha Smith, modified 12 Years ago at 12/28/09 7:44 AM
Created 12 Years ago at 12/28/09 7:44 AM

RE: Demon Sighting

Posts: 15 Join Date: 10/31/09 Recent Posts
Hi Gloria,

My daughter, had a similar experience when she was on her first retreat.Some Yogis do have experiences like this, though not every body. Don't attach any importance to this,as if you do, this will be a hindrance to your meditation.

Hope this helps.

Natasha.
Gloria Calabria, modified 12 Years ago at 12/28/09 11:58 AM
Created 12 Years ago at 12/28/09 11:58 AM

RE: Demon Sighting

Posts: 9 Join Date: 12/17/09 Recent Posts
Thank you for your response. i am making ready to do a 10-day Vipassanna (Goenka lineage) retreat and just want to do it...to do it. i don't want to treat what arises with disrespect but since some part of this one wants to just keep on 'truckin' so to speak...go as far as she might be allowed (?) to go...i make note of what arises that also disappears. i don't doubt what was seen was real but i'd like to go into the ultimate real...again...just because...the intention is there whether or not it is possible for this one...i don't know.

i also have had the life experience of giving birth to the two daughters...the oldest has seen entities since the age of three. i didn't understand too much of all that so i tried to talk her out of what she was sharing. She still sees what she sees and the classes on India, Japan, China and then the meditations (all varieties) plus jigong classes now have helped this mind let go of what should be and what should be regarded as Real.

it does help though to check in with others...i don't want to go astray if possible.

So again...thank you for sharing understanding with me.
Gloria Calabria, modified 12 Years ago at 12/28/09 12:03 PM
Created 12 Years ago at 12/28/09 12:03 PM

RE: Demon Sighting

Posts: 9 Join Date: 12/17/09 Recent Posts
It does Natasha...the mind didn't feel fear...the mind said "interesting". When even a smidgen of fear arises anger follows closely behind...it makes this mind angry to feel fear. Have to look into that too i guess. There was a bit of curiosity though and wonder...definitely some wonder and awe that this was taking place during daylight. But i should just get over that too...i think.

i spoke with the Qigong Master and he promised to teach me some energetic practices for shielding oneself. i will ask the Root Lama/Master (of the Surat Shabd Yoga practices and the one i regard as Master in the heart sense too...though he discourages all that) what he suggests.

Just thought i should check in with others...i have tended to jump in deep end head first and sometimes that isn't always the best way to go about matters i finally had to accept as truth.

Respect,

g
thumbnail
Florian, modified 12 Years ago at 12/28/09 2:27 PM
Created 12 Years ago at 12/28/09 2:27 PM

RE: Demon Sighting

Posts: 1028 Join Date: 4/28/09 Recent Posts
Gloria Calabria:
There was a bit of curiosity though and wonder...definitely some wonder and awe that this was taking place during daylight. But i should just get over that too...i think.


Hmmm. Maybe the following rings a bell?

[indent]Somewhere in here there can arise a tendency to see the world and those in it in very strange and unusual ways. I will give one example from my own experience, but realize that tremendous variation is possible here, so don’t take this too seriously. It is meant to try to convey a very general concept. I remember looking around me at all the people on retreat and even all the chickens, birds and puppies in the monastery, and seeing them all simultaneously as “little mush demons” (little squat greenish creatures with big, sad mouths and eyes) and fully enlightened buddhas at the same time. They were both. In fact, we were both.

We were deluded and small, yet transcendent and luminous. I could see in some very strange way exactly how each of them, including me, was caught in the world of form and confusion, trying to find happiness and yet doing so from such a small and frightened place, and yet all of this was vast buddha nature, all of this was the natural, luminous and compassionate dance of God. Such strange perspectives that try to resolve paradoxical insights do not always occur, but this is included here in case they do and perhaps to provoke knowing laughter from those with their own unique stories from this part of the path.
[/indent]

This quote is from the section on the "Equanimity Knowledge", found in "MCTB".

Cheers,
Florian
thumbnail
chamaeleon yogi, modified 12 Years ago at 12/30/09 1:41 AM
Created 12 Years ago at 12/30/09 1:41 AM

RE: Demon Sighting

Posts: 21 Join Date: 10/21/09 Recent Posts
Hi,

I had a demon sight period for a while (once flashes of hallucinations walking on the street, people having bizarre demon-like faces) and once for a longer time when social perception presented itself repeatedly as if people did not act as such but were expressions of C.G. Jung like archetypes (e.g. the devil speaking through the guy next table) and once sort of telepathic encounter with a demon who scared the shit out of me, I booked it under hallucination and it did not reappear. I think all this was meditation stage related and disappeared without a trace after 7 weeks of retreat (mahasi style).

i don't want to go astray if possible


I know other people with much more severe (not meditation related) special effects that usually are not in a mental hospital and when they are then for other reasons (like going violent and crazy on being 100% pissed).

It seems there is a wide range of experiences resembling even acute psychotic episodes without being such (where people still can distinguish them from "real reality"), and vast literature about it too, and we do not even have to go for the old C.G. Jung. Wilber/Engler/Brown survey the border line where meditation may become insane in "Transformations of Consciousness", Edward Podvoll comes from the other side and shows the "normal aspect" of madness (or the mad aspect of normality if you like) in "The Seduction of Madness", also in this line is "Spiritual Emergency: When Personal Transformation Becomes a Crisis" by Stanislav Grof (as editor). From these you get access to far more literature.

Seeing all this I'd rather lean back in your case and watch the scary movie, chance is not so big to go nuts as long as you keep some "basic doubt", sort of healthy general scepticism towards the "reality factor" of your experience (at least that's what Podvoll says).

You could stock some sedatives if you think that you might need a emergency break at some point.

Good luck!
Gloria Calabria, modified 12 Years ago at 12/30/09 7:44 PM
Created 12 Years ago at 12/30/09 7:44 PM

RE: Demon Sighting

Posts: 9 Join Date: 12/17/09 Recent Posts
Florian Weps:
Gloria Calabria:
There was a bit of curiosity though and wonder...definitely some wonder and awe that this was taking place during daylight. But i should just get over that too...i think.


Hmmm. Maybe the following rings a bell?

[indent]Somewhere in here there can arise a tendency to see the world and those in it in very strange and unusual ways. I will give one example from my own experience, but realize that tremendous variation is possible here, so don’t take this too seriously. It is meant to try to convey a very general concept. I remember looking around me at all the people on retreat and even all the chickens, birds and puppies in the monastery, and seeing them all simultaneously as “little mush demons” (little squat greenish creatures with big, sad mouths and eyes) and fully enlightened buddhas at the same time. They were both. In fact, we were both.

We were deluded and small, yet transcendent and luminous. I could see in some very strange way exactly how each of them, including me, was caught in the world of form and confusion, trying to find happiness and yet doing so from such a small and frightened place, and yet all of this was vast buddha nature, all of this was the natural, luminous and compassionate dance of God. Such strange perspectives that try to resolve paradoxical insights do not always occur, but this is included here in case they do and perhaps to provoke knowing laughter from those with their own unique stories from this part of the path.
[/indent]

This quote is from the section on the "Equanimity Knowledge", found in "MCTB".

Cheers,
Florian


Hi Florian,

It didn't ring a bell in terms of something i read previously but does ring a bell in terms of resonance and recognition. Thank you for sharing this. i simply admire the story regarding the historical Buddha's refusal to stop going the distance (so to speak). He was determined...i am determined (no matter how short or long it takes to go that imagined distance which i've heard can be even closer than one's own breath). Just feels right to be committed...and the joke arises, 'yeah but hopefully not committed'.

*cheeky grin*
Gloria Calabria, modified 12 Years ago at 12/30/09 7:46 PM
Created 12 Years ago at 12/30/09 7:46 PM

RE: Demon Sighting

Posts: 9 Join Date: 12/17/09 Recent Posts
chamaeleon yogi:
Hi,

I had a demon sight period for a while (once flashes of hallucinations walking on the street, people having bizarre demon-like faces) and once for a longer time when social perception presented itself repeatedly as if people did not act as such but were expressions of C.G. Jung like archetypes (e.g. the devil speaking through the guy next table) and once sort of telepathic encounter with a demon who scared the shit out of me, I booked it under hallucination and it did not reappear. I think all this was meditation stage related and disappeared without a trace after 7 weeks of retreat (mahasi style).

i don't want to go astray if possible


I know other people with much more severe (not meditation related) special effects that usually are not in a mental hospital and when they are then for other reasons (like going violent and crazy on being 100% pissed).

It seems there is a wide range of experiences resembling even acute psychotic episodes without being such (where people still can distinguish them from "real reality"), and vast literature about it too, and we do not even have to go for the old C.G. Jung. Wilber/Engler/Brown survey the border line where meditation may become insane in "Transformations of Consciousness", Edward Podvoll comes from the other side and shows the "normal aspect" of madness (or the mad aspect of normality if you like) in "The Seduction of Madness", also in this line is "Spiritual Emergency: When Personal Transformation Becomes a Crisis" by Stanislav Grof (as editor). From these you get access to far more literature.

Seeing all this I'd rather lean back in your case and watch the scary movie, chance is not so big to go nuts as long as you keep some "basic doubt", sort of healthy general scepticism towards the "reality factor" of your experience (at least that's what Podvoll says).

You could stock some sedatives if you think that you might need a emergency break at some point.

Good luck!


i deeply appreciate what you and others have so generously shared. Thank you with all my heart. i'm printing off 'Mastering the Core Teachings of the Buddha' and will be reading that this week. It is good to learn from others this way.

Peace,

g