dave-less' practice log #1 - Discussion
dave-less' practice log #1
David Edwards, modified 8 Months ago at 6/27/24 9:08 AM
Created 8 Months ago at 6/27/24 8:04 AM
dave-less' practice log #1
Posts: 7 Join Date: 6/19/24 Recent Posts
Hi all. New to the site. Muddling along myself having listened to or read MCTB 2-3 times and dipping into books recommended in that book plus podcast interviews. Meditation most days 10 mins to 1 hour. Sometimes sporadic.
Main influences:
Dan M. Ingram
George Haas
Leigh Brasington
Daniel P. Brown
Culadasa
Michael Taft
Thich Nhat Hanh
+ more
Recent Experiences:
1. September 16th, 2023: Moments after coming out of kneeling meditation, then going into a prostration to strectch my back, I had an image of my recently deceased parents and myself, they were on the other side of a circle (like a circlip shape, one side of the circle being open). The emotion in the "event" was nothing but love and acceptance / acknowledgement 100%, no doubts, no question, not one-way, not two-way. Not a choice but also a choice. Not magnetism, there was no push-pull. It was total. Instead of staying with it I stopped to write it down so as to not forget it. For 2 days after, without any intention to do so, I felt and exuded total compassion toward my wife and children and everything generally. I could not be rattled. This wore off however.
2. March 3rd, 2024: I needed to go into town, the journey there and back on public transport. The whole time it felt as though I was floating on a cloud observing everyone else lost in their own thoughts, completley unaware that they were acting from whatever they were thinking in an unconscious way. My mind said that I was the observer of all this "human" activity. That strong sensation also last about 2 days.
3. June 25th, 2024: Hour long meditation noting everything. Noting sensations, noted the mind labelling, noting thought as thought or content (story), dullness, brighteness, feelings (fear resultant from story or thought content), This went on for some time then realised simultaneously that everything being noted was impermanent, unsatisfactory and occuring automatically. In another way; things came up, they were noted, I perceived they were unsatisfactory and desiring novelty, the mind went to the next "new" thing. I perceived the mind desiring change due to dissatisfaction.
I also observed dependant and/or interdependant arising.
I just observed all this and it reinforced a belief (open to being proven wrong) that most of us are not aware that we are stuck in the mind's fabrications and thinking. In reality, the mind is doing what the mind does, like a central processing unit of the 5 sense-gates that spits out a story of what it thinks is happening based on memory, "life experience" (perceptions) and current stimuli and "perceived knowledge".
I appreciate any feedback.
Edit: I forgot to say, during this most recent meditation and the experience or realisation of impermanence, dissatisfaction and the perception it wasn't me doing this, there seemed a period of calmness, a sort of spaciousness / emptiness. I can't quite descibe it and am trying not to use words that I have read or heard in books/talks/podcasts but I don't have the vocabulary to explain it perfectly.
Main influences:
Dan M. Ingram
George Haas
Leigh Brasington
Daniel P. Brown
Culadasa
Michael Taft
Thich Nhat Hanh
+ more
Recent Experiences:
1. September 16th, 2023: Moments after coming out of kneeling meditation, then going into a prostration to strectch my back, I had an image of my recently deceased parents and myself, they were on the other side of a circle (like a circlip shape, one side of the circle being open). The emotion in the "event" was nothing but love and acceptance / acknowledgement 100%, no doubts, no question, not one-way, not two-way. Not a choice but also a choice. Not magnetism, there was no push-pull. It was total. Instead of staying with it I stopped to write it down so as to not forget it. For 2 days after, without any intention to do so, I felt and exuded total compassion toward my wife and children and everything generally. I could not be rattled. This wore off however.
2. March 3rd, 2024: I needed to go into town, the journey there and back on public transport. The whole time it felt as though I was floating on a cloud observing everyone else lost in their own thoughts, completley unaware that they were acting from whatever they were thinking in an unconscious way. My mind said that I was the observer of all this "human" activity. That strong sensation also last about 2 days.
3. June 25th, 2024: Hour long meditation noting everything. Noting sensations, noted the mind labelling, noting thought as thought or content (story), dullness, brighteness, feelings (fear resultant from story or thought content), This went on for some time then realised simultaneously that everything being noted was impermanent, unsatisfactory and occuring automatically. In another way; things came up, they were noted, I perceived they were unsatisfactory and desiring novelty, the mind went to the next "new" thing. I perceived the mind desiring change due to dissatisfaction.
I also observed dependant and/or interdependant arising.
I just observed all this and it reinforced a belief (open to being proven wrong) that most of us are not aware that we are stuck in the mind's fabrications and thinking. In reality, the mind is doing what the mind does, like a central processing unit of the 5 sense-gates that spits out a story of what it thinks is happening based on memory, "life experience" (perceptions) and current stimuli and "perceived knowledge".
I appreciate any feedback.
Edit: I forgot to say, during this most recent meditation and the experience or realisation of impermanence, dissatisfaction and the perception it wasn't me doing this, there seemed a period of calmness, a sort of spaciousness / emptiness. I can't quite descibe it and am trying not to use words that I have read or heard in books/talks/podcasts but I don't have the vocabulary to explain it perfectly.
Matt Jon Rousseau, modified 8 Months ago at 6/27/24 8:44 AM
Created 8 Months ago at 6/27/24 8:44 AM
RE: dave-less' practice log #1
Posts: 264 Join Date: 5/1/22 Recent PostsMartin V, modified 8 Months ago at 6/27/24 10:34 AM
Created 8 Months ago at 6/27/24 10:34 AM
RE: dave-less' practice log #1
Posts: 1120 Join Date: 4/25/20 Recent Posts
These sound like very useful insights. You are also seeing the malleability of experience which, in itself, is a foundational insight.
You don't mention the techniques you use in formal meditation. Describing them might lead to better feedback.
You don't mention the techniques you use in formal meditation. Describing them might lead to better feedback.
David Edwards, modified 8 Months ago at 7/5/24 11:26 AM
Created 8 Months ago at 7/5/24 11:20 AM
RE: dave-less' practice log #1
Posts: 7 Join Date: 6/19/24 Recent Posts
Thanks Matt and Martin.I don't think I have any formal meditation. Only informal :-) It's quite without routine and it's haphazard. It was concentration training per Dan Brown to begin with and has since been more noting (whilst on the cushion) and awareness of thought and action off the cushion.
I am wondering if this is Stream Entry as this mind-view is continuing now going on 10 days without abaitment.
The results appear to check many boxes of what I have read re SE from various online sources.
* much reduced suffering. I feel unbothered, the observer, neutral, a little curious.
* very happy and even excited at times, irrespective of what is happening around me.
* much more energy, physical and mental.
* more clarity.
* experiencing immense gratitude.
* increadible compassion for everyone, including myself.
* an unusual (to me) ability to listen for long periods and empathise. I was reasonably skilful before but now it seems almost infinate.
* the realisation that thoughts (everyone's) are a result of dependant arising (upon the previous thought) and the thoughts enable (?) the mind-view (another thought-based experience).
* I'm seeing the Dharma everywhere. Today I realised just going to the toilet has a lesson in it.
* I attend a lot of online meetings (12-step, Recovery Dharma + others) daily and the perception of the attendees' complaining seems to have sky-rocketted. I don't think it's them, I think it's me that has changed. It's a sense of not relating to the group anymore and everyone needs to know that with a "tweak" in thinking, everything will be just fine.
* I feel solid. Relaxed and solid. Confident.
* I ask for clarity if there is ambiguity.
* I observe my mind much more. I observe, catch and correct my old, unwise speech and thoughts.
In meditation (on the cushion) I have attempted "note everything" a further 2 times. The result was boredom and the desire to learn something new. I'll go back to MCTB and see what the next step is but hope someone here can offer feedback.
Grateful for any comments / direction.
You don't mention the techniques you use in formal meditation. Describing them might lead to better feedback.
I am wondering if this is Stream Entry as this mind-view is continuing now going on 10 days without abaitment.
The results appear to check many boxes of what I have read re SE from various online sources.
* much reduced suffering. I feel unbothered, the observer, neutral, a little curious.
* very happy and even excited at times, irrespective of what is happening around me.
* much more energy, physical and mental.
* more clarity.
* experiencing immense gratitude.
* increadible compassion for everyone, including myself.
* an unusual (to me) ability to listen for long periods and empathise. I was reasonably skilful before but now it seems almost infinate.
* the realisation that thoughts (everyone's) are a result of dependant arising (upon the previous thought) and the thoughts enable (?) the mind-view (another thought-based experience).
* I'm seeing the Dharma everywhere. Today I realised just going to the toilet has a lesson in it.
* I attend a lot of online meetings (12-step, Recovery Dharma + others) daily and the perception of the attendees' complaining seems to have sky-rocketted. I don't think it's them, I think it's me that has changed. It's a sense of not relating to the group anymore and everyone needs to know that with a "tweak" in thinking, everything will be just fine.
* I feel solid. Relaxed and solid. Confident.
* I ask for clarity if there is ambiguity.
* I observe my mind much more. I observe, catch and correct my old, unwise speech and thoughts.
In meditation (on the cushion) I have attempted "note everything" a further 2 times. The result was boredom and the desire to learn something new. I'll go back to MCTB and see what the next step is but hope someone here can offer feedback.
Grateful for any comments / direction.
Martin V, modified 8 Months ago at 7/5/24 7:24 PM
Created 8 Months ago at 7/5/24 7:24 PM
RE: dave-less' practice log #1
Posts: 1120 Join Date: 4/25/20 Recent Posts
That sounds really good. You are in a good place and experiencing great benefits. It can be helpful, at times like this, to see if there are patterns within this. What kinds of thoughts or actions lead to more happiness/confidence/mindfulness/equanimity and what are the situations in which those are diminished? This is similar to how we might practice when we are really in the zone playing an instrument or a sport, and we try to notice what we are doing right.
As for the name that you give to what has been happening for the past 10 days, I think that is less important. Teachers often say that it is best to wait a year before deciding what we want to call something. I wouldn't let naming distract you from building on what sounds like it is very wholesome and beneficial.
As for the name that you give to what has been happening for the past 10 days, I think that is less important. Teachers often say that it is best to wait a year before deciding what we want to call something. I wouldn't let naming distract you from building on what sounds like it is very wholesome and beneficial.
David Edwards, modified 8 Months ago at 7/18/24 10:29 AM
Created 8 Months ago at 7/18/24 10:29 AM
RE: dave-less' practice log #1
Posts: 7 Join Date: 6/19/24 Recent Posts
Thanks for the advice Martin.
I've been sick for 4 days, coming good now, so not much meditation. I thought today's didn't go well but it turns out it did. It was perhaps an hour or a little over. Noting practice. I've been dipping into Leigh Brasington's Right Concentration (specificly on Jhanas) and Dan Brown's Pointing Out the Great Way (Preliminaries as I like to revisit texts on conducting ethical behaviour), so really just used any good feeling that arose as the meditation object. I was surprised by a sudden, almost flash-like, take-over of the body. The colour in mind was light-grey and it was different from any previous experience in its speed and all-over completeness.
I stayed with that sensation for a little past the point of it being interesting, so maybe 10 minutes or so. I then came out of the meditation (always feel reluctance as it's so pleasant) and thought nothing much about the session. That is until I joined a meeting. I attend a lot of men only recovery meetings, 12-step and other, and today I found it particularly hard to listen to the shares. I just couldn't realate or sit and listen to other people going on and on about their perceptions of how their life is going. On this occasion I did not feel compassion as I have done in the past. It was more of a good amount of annoyance. I stayed in the meeting, not listening, but online looking up Dharma related content.
I've been sick for 4 days, coming good now, so not much meditation. I thought today's didn't go well but it turns out it did. It was perhaps an hour or a little over. Noting practice. I've been dipping into Leigh Brasington's Right Concentration (specificly on Jhanas) and Dan Brown's Pointing Out the Great Way (Preliminaries as I like to revisit texts on conducting ethical behaviour), so really just used any good feeling that arose as the meditation object. I was surprised by a sudden, almost flash-like, take-over of the body. The colour in mind was light-grey and it was different from any previous experience in its speed and all-over completeness.
I stayed with that sensation for a little past the point of it being interesting, so maybe 10 minutes or so. I then came out of the meditation (always feel reluctance as it's so pleasant) and thought nothing much about the session. That is until I joined a meeting. I attend a lot of men only recovery meetings, 12-step and other, and today I found it particularly hard to listen to the shares. I just couldn't realate or sit and listen to other people going on and on about their perceptions of how their life is going. On this occasion I did not feel compassion as I have done in the past. It was more of a good amount of annoyance. I stayed in the meeting, not listening, but online looking up Dharma related content.
Martin V, modified 8 Months ago at 7/18/24 1:02 PM
Created 8 Months ago at 7/18/24 1:02 PM
RE: dave-less' practice log #1
Posts: 1120 Join Date: 4/25/20 Recent Posts
Interesting. I'm a huge fan of Leigh Brasington.
You felt more compassion before and less now. So compassion is subject to change. Good thing to notice. That probably depends on conditions, so if you keep noting when it changes, with time, the conditions may become apparent.
In a non-meditation, recovery-oriented side note, meetings becoming annoying is sometimes (not always and not for all people) a sign of the addictive mind looking for a way to wriggle free, so make sure you have that on your radar.
You felt more compassion before and less now. So compassion is subject to change. Good thing to notice. That probably depends on conditions, so if you keep noting when it changes, with time, the conditions may become apparent.
In a non-meditation, recovery-oriented side note, meetings becoming annoying is sometimes (not always and not for all people) a sign of the addictive mind looking for a way to wriggle free, so make sure you have that on your radar.
David Edwards, modified 8 Months ago at 7/20/24 8:13 AM
Created 8 Months ago at 7/20/24 8:11 AM
RE: dave-less' practice log #1
Posts: 7 Join Date: 6/19/24 Recent Posts
Thanks Martin.
"a sign of the addictive mind looking for a way to wriggle free"
I hear this concept often in "addiction" meetings. In this case, these are ACA / ACoA (Adult Children of Alcoholics and Dysfunctional Families) meeings. Just one type I attend. The current primary strategy used in them is all about comforting the inner child and whilst I appreciate the concept and see how it may help some people, I don't find it particularly useful for me. I have other practices with better results.
There is much more to these meetings than inner child work however, which I have benefitted from.
I guess now would be a good idea to broaden the "net" of observation to include mood/view changes not only related to compassion.
Thanks for this tip.
"a sign of the addictive mind looking for a way to wriggle free"
I hear this concept often in "addiction" meetings. In this case, these are ACA / ACoA (Adult Children of Alcoholics and Dysfunctional Families) meeings. Just one type I attend. The current primary strategy used in them is all about comforting the inner child and whilst I appreciate the concept and see how it may help some people, I don't find it particularly useful for me. I have other practices with better results.
There is much more to these meetings than inner child work however, which I have benefitted from.
I guess now would be a good idea to broaden the "net" of observation to include mood/view changes not only related to compassion.
Thanks for this tip.
David Edwards, modified 8 Months ago at 7/20/24 8:32 AM
Created 8 Months ago at 7/20/24 8:32 AM
RE: dave-less' practice log #1
Posts: 7 Join Date: 6/19/24 Recent Posts
In addition to my last post, I guess in hindsight I did have compassion for the meeting attendees, but my focus was on my own impatience. I was annoyed that the attendees weren't seeeing that it is their thinking that keeps them in the place they "think" they are in. They shared on what they perceive to be true for them and I was witnessing and reacting to their ignorance, and perhaps my inability to click my fingers and have them understand their predicament.
Stranger_Loop Stranger_Loop, modified 7 Months ago at 7/26/24 7:30 AM
Created 7 Months ago at 7/26/24 7:28 AM
RE: dave-less' practice log #1
Posts: 89 Join Date: 3/17/23 Recent Posts
Going a bit into the noting/noticing direction you can notice your thoughts about other peoples ignorance arising which might be similar to your thoughts about your own ignorance. Noting one might help with noticing the other.
Does their ignorance feel permanent? Does it feel like their is a stable self perceiving their ignorance? Does the ignorance feel non-empty?
Except for the things we can't speak about there is always another layer. Recently I was complaining about someone else interpretation of Christ/emptiness/smth which is of course extremely enlightened ;).
Does their ignorance feel permanent? Does it feel like their is a stable self perceiving their ignorance? Does the ignorance feel non-empty?
Except for the things we can't speak about there is always another layer. Recently I was complaining about someone else interpretation of Christ/emptiness/smth which is of course extremely enlightened ;).