Mikey’s Practice Log - Discussion
Mikey’s Practice Log
Mikey Oz, modified 6 Months ago at 6/28/24 7:17 AM
Created 6 Months ago at 6/28/24 7:15 AM
Mikey’s Practice Log
Posts: 18 Join Date: 6/28/24 Recent Posts
Like many here I have the tendency to be pretty verbose, but I’ll keep it short(er than I would).
I don’t practice regularly, but when I read Daniel’s book 7 years ago or so, it felt like I was looking for that book my entire life. I then went on two 1 month long retreats, but found them incredibly difficult. It was difficult to maintain focus, to sit, and I frustratingly didn’t achieve anything in terms of the maps. Other than strong bodily vibrations, bright lights and the like, the only real experience of note was about 5 hours of effortless presence. I felt very in my body, and was aware of every verbal thought before they happened and was paying close attention to every movement with a low consistent effort. I happily reflect upon that as the best day of my life.
Other than that day it was a lengthy battle. So on retreat I was reading the longer book by Mahasi, and eventually he began describing hell. That scared me and affected my focus a lot, and it affects my world view even today. Pa Auk’s book on karma was similarly impactful, realizing that almost everything conventional humans experience garners negative karma.
Several core aspects of this practice fit the way I was since I was a child. Whenever I made a wish, at birthdays or with dandelions, I’d always wish for happiness to all beings. And a concept I realized early on was that there were abstractions that were chaining me and those around me. I remember writing notes about it long before I discovered this community and that book. I remember thinking that people can truly become successful by ridding themselves of these boundaries. Later I found that this was solidity as some describe it.
So when a practice that feels so fitting and close to me is invented by a lineage that *also* described the presence of hell very literally, and the workings of karma as they are, it really scared me and severely affected my practice and attitude towards living.
Before those retreats, I had much less to my life. Now I have a great job, a lot of freedom, a rewarding hobby, good health, and many loving friends. However with the advent of these positives also came a massively increased desperate clinging to life. As JK put it, “with pleasure comes fear” and I feel that now more than ever. And now that I recently met my girlfriend and have an intense and stable relationship with her, this kind of anxiety has absolutely skyrocketed. I’m not just living for myself anymore. I can’t imagine what having kids would do to me in this state, the sense of attachment must be unbearable.
Lastly, it’s clear AI is going to make a meteoric impact on our world. Of the many outcomes, I believe global enlightenment is a possibility. I can feel that I desperately want to make it to this singularity.
These things are all just fear of death. Because I don’t want to go through hell I fear death. Because I want to see AI’s fruition I fear death. Because I love my life and girlfriend I fear death. Despite having the life I dreamed of and more, I’ve become a nervous death-fearing mess. Even as I write this, my neurotic mind tells me to not jinx it by writing, and to not jinx it by writing about jinxing it. It’s gotten to a point where I clearly need to make a well-defined change. I have the pillars of a healthy life. I have a very good conceptual understanding of the practice and the path. I just have to suck it up and do it regardless of how poor I’ve become at it.
I commit to doing 1 hour of meditation per day indefinitely with no exceptions. That includes posting to this practice log daily. I’ll also put some light effort into noting of daily life whenever I gain in awareness. If anyone has any advice, encouragement, or words to help me add weight to this commitment, I would appreciate it
I’m happy I got that off my chest. Sending love to everyone.
I don’t practice regularly, but when I read Daniel’s book 7 years ago or so, it felt like I was looking for that book my entire life. I then went on two 1 month long retreats, but found them incredibly difficult. It was difficult to maintain focus, to sit, and I frustratingly didn’t achieve anything in terms of the maps. Other than strong bodily vibrations, bright lights and the like, the only real experience of note was about 5 hours of effortless presence. I felt very in my body, and was aware of every verbal thought before they happened and was paying close attention to every movement with a low consistent effort. I happily reflect upon that as the best day of my life.
Other than that day it was a lengthy battle. So on retreat I was reading the longer book by Mahasi, and eventually he began describing hell. That scared me and affected my focus a lot, and it affects my world view even today. Pa Auk’s book on karma was similarly impactful, realizing that almost everything conventional humans experience garners negative karma.
Several core aspects of this practice fit the way I was since I was a child. Whenever I made a wish, at birthdays or with dandelions, I’d always wish for happiness to all beings. And a concept I realized early on was that there were abstractions that were chaining me and those around me. I remember writing notes about it long before I discovered this community and that book. I remember thinking that people can truly become successful by ridding themselves of these boundaries. Later I found that this was solidity as some describe it.
So when a practice that feels so fitting and close to me is invented by a lineage that *also* described the presence of hell very literally, and the workings of karma as they are, it really scared me and severely affected my practice and attitude towards living.
Before those retreats, I had much less to my life. Now I have a great job, a lot of freedom, a rewarding hobby, good health, and many loving friends. However with the advent of these positives also came a massively increased desperate clinging to life. As JK put it, “with pleasure comes fear” and I feel that now more than ever. And now that I recently met my girlfriend and have an intense and stable relationship with her, this kind of anxiety has absolutely skyrocketed. I’m not just living for myself anymore. I can’t imagine what having kids would do to me in this state, the sense of attachment must be unbearable.
Lastly, it’s clear AI is going to make a meteoric impact on our world. Of the many outcomes, I believe global enlightenment is a possibility. I can feel that I desperately want to make it to this singularity.
These things are all just fear of death. Because I don’t want to go through hell I fear death. Because I want to see AI’s fruition I fear death. Because I love my life and girlfriend I fear death. Despite having the life I dreamed of and more, I’ve become a nervous death-fearing mess. Even as I write this, my neurotic mind tells me to not jinx it by writing, and to not jinx it by writing about jinxing it. It’s gotten to a point where I clearly need to make a well-defined change. I have the pillars of a healthy life. I have a very good conceptual understanding of the practice and the path. I just have to suck it up and do it regardless of how poor I’ve become at it.
I commit to doing 1 hour of meditation per day indefinitely with no exceptions. That includes posting to this practice log daily. I’ll also put some light effort into noting of daily life whenever I gain in awareness. If anyone has any advice, encouragement, or words to help me add weight to this commitment, I would appreciate it
I’m happy I got that off my chest. Sending love to everyone.
shargrol, modified 6 Months ago at 6/28/24 7:33 AM
Created 6 Months ago at 6/28/24 7:33 AM
RE: Mikey’s Practice Log
Posts: 2808 Join Date: 2/8/16 Recent Posts
A month long retreat is a very intense thing -- glad you got through them okay!
Mikey, sounds like you have a strong sense of spiritual urgency (Saṃvega - Encyclopedia of Buddhism)!
Just wanted to say -- the trick is to wisely use that energy, not let it fade away, but also not let it burn you. The two classic ways that things fall apart is people become too selfishly ambitious (spiritual pride)... or they become too unselfishly ambitious (spiritual martydom). Remember that buddhism is the middle path beyond the extremes. Ironically, the more gentle you are with yourself, the better your progress.
Since you are using the word fear a lot, it's probably worth me linking to this: 6. Fear – MCTB.org
Best wishes for your practice. Hopefully it will lead you to a fuller appreciation of your self and your life!
Mikey, sounds like you have a strong sense of spiritual urgency (Saṃvega - Encyclopedia of Buddhism)!
Just wanted to say -- the trick is to wisely use that energy, not let it fade away, but also not let it burn you. The two classic ways that things fall apart is people become too selfishly ambitious (spiritual pride)... or they become too unselfishly ambitious (spiritual martydom). Remember that buddhism is the middle path beyond the extremes. Ironically, the more gentle you are with yourself, the better your progress.
Since you are using the word fear a lot, it's probably worth me linking to this: 6. Fear – MCTB.org
Best wishes for your practice. Hopefully it will lead you to a fuller appreciation of your self and your life!
Mikey Oz, modified 6 Months ago at 6/29/24 12:24 AM
Created 6 Months ago at 6/29/24 12:24 AM
RE: Mikey’s Practice Log
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Hey shargrol, thank you very much for your kind words. I do remember my main struggle on retreat was finding a balance of acceptance and direction. It’s so easy to fall within the two extremes, but I’ll continue trying to be gentle.
Thank you for the links! I don’t expect that I’m in the fear stage, but the tips in there are still helpful.
Dreams feel relevant to practice. This kind of situation doesn’t happen very often but last night I had a nightmare that I was paddling my surfboard dodging sharks and then suddenly had an infection where my face was swollen and coral was coming out of my skin. Then I woke up and had sleep paralysis. It’s always hard to be mindful during those moments — I usually end up playing some calming music to set a lighter mood so I can fall asleep without going back into the same dream.
I did 3x20min yesterday. One session had pretty good awareness with many things going on during a train ride. Other than that nothing of note. It feels great to be in this commitment
Thank you for the links! I don’t expect that I’m in the fear stage, but the tips in there are still helpful.
Dreams feel relevant to practice. This kind of situation doesn’t happen very often but last night I had a nightmare that I was paddling my surfboard dodging sharks and then suddenly had an infection where my face was swollen and coral was coming out of my skin. Then I woke up and had sleep paralysis. It’s always hard to be mindful during those moments — I usually end up playing some calming music to set a lighter mood so I can fall asleep without going back into the same dream.
I did 3x20min yesterday. One session had pretty good awareness with many things going on during a train ride. Other than that nothing of note. It feels great to be in this commitment
Mikey Oz, modified 6 Months ago at 6/29/24 6:10 AM
Created 6 Months ago at 6/29/24 6:10 AM
RE: Mikey’s Practice Log
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Day 2 went well, on one session I got relaxed and a bit focused and started to see flashing lights that shrink and converge onto this weird spiky black shape at the center of my vision. I usually get that whenever I become calm and focused. I get distracted by it but note it and move my attention back to breath.
Mikey Oz, modified 6 Months ago at 6/30/24 9:38 PM
Created 6 Months ago at 6/30/24 9:38 PM
RE: Mikey’s Practice Log
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Day 3 was pretty low quality. Was traveling most of the day and did one session on a flight and one on a bus ride. Will be in the same place for a while now.
Mikey Oz, modified 6 Months ago at 7/5/24 9:16 AM
Created 6 Months ago at 7/5/24 9:16 AM
RE: Mikey’s Practice Log
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I’m sticking with it, but I didn’t realize how much I took time for granted before I had a job and relationship. It’s definitely workable but finding a time where the practice feels productive is hard. And for this year I’m living in a city where everything is noisy, which is distracting. Nonetheless I’m putting in the time. Nothing of note practice wise, still pretty sloppy. Some minutes where I’m hooked onto the breath and aware of what my mind is doing but not much yet.
Chris M, modified 6 Months ago at 7/5/24 9:25 AM
Created 6 Months ago at 7/5/24 9:25 AM
RE: Mikey’s Practice Log
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Noise is actually a practice enhancer, not a distractor. It gives us plenty of stimulus to note, and it helps us realize we don't live in a perfect world. You're lucky to have it!
Mikey Oz, modified 6 Months ago at 7/5/24 9:50 AM
Created 6 Months ago at 7/5/24 9:50 AM
RE: Mikey’s Practice Log
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Thank you Chris, next time I get frustrated I'll recall your comment, which will surely be tomorrow
Mikey Oz, modified 6 Months ago at 7/14/24 8:30 AM
Created 6 Months ago at 7/14/24 8:30 AM
RE: Mikey’s Practice Log
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Overall going well, getting better at making time for sitting and the commitment helps a lot. Being alone when I sit is also important to me, scheduling around that more and more.
I started to consider ~20 minutes of stretching as part of the hour. I feel that it serves the practice, at least at this stage.
Sometimes, about 15 minutes in I usually feel a deepening or some palpable serenity.
My sleeping situation hasn't been ideal, so I've been getting sleep paralysis from time to time. I always end up trying to fight it and wake up. Today was a lengthy battle, it felt like I was trapped in my body for 10 minutes, wondering when I'll be able to move again. That's the tricky part, sometimes I'm just dreaming that I'm having sleep paralysis, and every time I think I moved my hands and arms with great effort, I suddenly realize they're still where they were. I should probably just go back to sleep in this situation, but it's not always easy to just face the fact that I can't move.
And it always strikes me at night how incredibly confusing it is that I exist, or even that anything exists. It's hard to describe the exact feeling.
Needless to say I don't have the most healthy relationship with sleep I'm taking steps to improve my environment which should have a meaningful impact.
I started to consider ~20 minutes of stretching as part of the hour. I feel that it serves the practice, at least at this stage.
Sometimes, about 15 minutes in I usually feel a deepening or some palpable serenity.
My sleeping situation hasn't been ideal, so I've been getting sleep paralysis from time to time. I always end up trying to fight it and wake up. Today was a lengthy battle, it felt like I was trapped in my body for 10 minutes, wondering when I'll be able to move again. That's the tricky part, sometimes I'm just dreaming that I'm having sleep paralysis, and every time I think I moved my hands and arms with great effort, I suddenly realize they're still where they were. I should probably just go back to sleep in this situation, but it's not always easy to just face the fact that I can't move.
And it always strikes me at night how incredibly confusing it is that I exist, or even that anything exists. It's hard to describe the exact feeling.
Needless to say I don't have the most healthy relationship with sleep I'm taking steps to improve my environment which should have a meaningful impact.
Papa Che Dusko, modified 6 Months ago at 7/14/24 3:04 PM
Created 6 Months ago at 7/14/24 3:04 PM
RE: Mikey’s Practice Log
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To second Chris;
Noise and sounds are so rich in elements to be noted. It can be helpful to remind oneself to look at the different aspects of experience like mind states, body sensations, feeling tones, mind images associated with that (in this case) noise or sound. As soon you get a strong experience let it be a reminder to look for "what else is happening here now?" and look ... oh ... a mind image ... oh ... an assumption ... oh ... unpleasant feeling tone ... oh ... aversion ... oh ... restlessness in the body (as in twitching) ... oh ... desire to get up and stop meditating ... etc ...
Keep up observing the "stream" of consciousness! Matter of fact ... the chain ... the frames ... one after the other ... look look look Its all there! Hence Ingram says "1-10 notes per second" it all happens very fast. Calm, gently focused and keep up the noting rhythm ... tap ... tap ... tap ... tap ...
Noise and sounds are so rich in elements to be noted. It can be helpful to remind oneself to look at the different aspects of experience like mind states, body sensations, feeling tones, mind images associated with that (in this case) noise or sound. As soon you get a strong experience let it be a reminder to look for "what else is happening here now?" and look ... oh ... a mind image ... oh ... an assumption ... oh ... unpleasant feeling tone ... oh ... aversion ... oh ... restlessness in the body (as in twitching) ... oh ... desire to get up and stop meditating ... etc ...
Keep up observing the "stream" of consciousness! Matter of fact ... the chain ... the frames ... one after the other ... look look look Its all there! Hence Ingram says "1-10 notes per second" it all happens very fast. Calm, gently focused and keep up the noting rhythm ... tap ... tap ... tap ... tap ...
Martin, modified 6 Months ago at 7/14/24 3:41 PM
Created 6 Months ago at 7/14/24 3:41 PM
RE: Mikey’s Practice Log
Posts: 1064 Join Date: 4/25/20 Recent PostsMatt Jon Rousseau, modified 6 Months ago at 7/14/24 6:35 PM
Created 6 Months ago at 7/14/24 6:35 PM
RE: Mikey’s Practice Log
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.Have you talked to your doctor about sleeep paralysis. Sometimes ultra low doses of benzos before bed have cured it
Mikey Oz, modified 6 Months ago at 7/15/24 12:25 AM
Created 6 Months ago at 7/15/24 12:25 AM
RE: Mikey’s Practice Log
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Thank you Papa. I tend to view sitting practice as a time for serenity, and it's hard to imagine becoming serene with unpleasant sensations as the object of my attention at my current state. On retreat I would get distracted by my mouth a lot, and it was causing a lot of tension, so I tried simply focusing on my mouth and my reactions to it. Eventually it felt like the sensations of my mouth dissolved or transformed in some way, however that's not something I can do after such a long break in practice and with the high stress level I have now. Perhaps it makes more sense to view sitting practice as a time for heightened effort rather than heightened serenity or one pointedness. Regardless, I'll take your words to heart and do my best to note them and my reactions with frequency.
Thanks Matt, if the situation was more severe I'd definitely consider that. But I think right now it's due to a bad sleeping situation -- my gf has a tiny bed and she moves around a lot and works at changing hours. But I'm getting a separate bed and have started to plan a stricter sleeping schedule with her, which should fix it. Though I think sleep paralysis would even be fun if I knew how to approach it skillfully, however because of fear it turns into this intense and confusing experience.
Thanks Matt, if the situation was more severe I'd definitely consider that. But I think right now it's due to a bad sleeping situation -- my gf has a tiny bed and she moves around a lot and works at changing hours. But I'm getting a separate bed and have started to plan a stricter sleeping schedule with her, which should fix it. Though I think sleep paralysis would even be fun if I knew how to approach it skillfully, however because of fear it turns into this intense and confusing experience.
Mikey Oz, modified 6 Months ago at 7/15/24 12:31 AM
Created 6 Months ago at 7/15/24 12:31 AM
RE: Mikey’s Practice Log
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Actually, so far my practice is less like "tap tap tap tap" and more like focusing on the abdomen and only noting distractions. Though I believe I should be noting more like the former. I will give that a shot, thank you. I should probably read the manuals from time to time.
Martin, modified 6 Months ago at 7/15/24 11:49 AM
Created 6 Months ago at 7/15/24 11:49 AM
RE: Mikey’s Practice Log
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You are getting some great advice but it could also be a bit confusing. Some of the suggestions you have received relate to Vipassana, and from what you just said, it sounds like your main focus has been Samatha.
There are two main approaches/aspects to meditation: Samatha and Vipassana (sati). In the former, you still the mind by letting go of distractions such as thoughts so that the mind does not chase its own tail in the way that it usually does. In the latter, you pay careful attention to whatever the mind does so that the mind does not overlook parts of its operation in the way that it usually does. Samatha and Vipassana generally go hand in hand, but some teachers suggest developing them one at a time. Some say to develop Samatha first, so the mind will be in good shape for Vipassana. Others say develop Vipassana and you will acquire the skills for good Samatha (samadhi). Others say do one kind on one day and the other on other days. 80% Samatha and 20% Vipassana is a common recommendation but so is 100% Vipassana for the first months or even years. There isn't a universal consensus. Nonetheless, I really think it helps to be clear about which you plan to do when you sit down. You can even plan to do both in one sit, for example with a midpoint bell set in your timer to let you know when to switch.
I like your comment about reading the manuals :-)
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/mahasi/progress.html
contains this brief recap of Vipassana which you could read before sits:
"Insight must, in fact, be developed by noticing,[15] according to their specific and general characteristics,[16] the bodily and mental processes that become evident at the six sense doors. At the beginning, however, it is difficult to follow and to notice clearly all bodily and mental processes that incessantly appear at the six sense doors. Therefore the meditator who is a beginner should first notice the perfectly distinct process of touch, perceived through the door of bodily sensitivity; because the Visuddhimagga says that in insight meditation one should take up what is distinct. When sitting, there occurs the bodily process of touch by way of the sitting posture and through touch sensitivity in the body. These processes of tactile sensitivity should be noticed as "Sitting _ touching _," and so forth, in due succession. Further, at the seated meditator's abdomen, the tactile process of bodily motion (that is, the wind, or vibratory, element) which has breathing as its condition, is perceptible continuously as the rise (expansion) and fall (contraction) of the abdomen. That too should be noticed as "rising, falling," and so forth. While the meditator is thus engaged in noticing the element of motion which impinges continuously on the door of bodily sensitivity in the abdomen, it becomes evident to him in its aspects of stiffening, of vibrating, and of pushing and pulling. Here, the aspect of stiffening shows the motion element's characteristic nature of supporting; the aspect of vibrating shows its essential function of movement; and the aspect of pushing and pulling shows its manifestation of impelling.[17]Hence the meditator, noticing the tactile bodily process of rise and fall of the abdomen, accomplishes the observation of the bodily process (rupa), by getting to know the characteristic nature, etc., of the element of motion. Later when he has accomplished the observation of mind (nama) and the observation of both body and mind (nama-rupa), he will also come to know the general characteristics of the processes concerned — their impermanence, liability to suffering, and their being void of a self.But while he is engaged in just noticing the rising and falling of the abdomen and other tactile processes, there will appear thoughts of desire, etc., feelings of pleasure, etc., or acts such as adjusting various parts of the body. At that time, these activities (of mind and body) must be noticed, too. After noticing them, he should turn again to the continuous noticing of the tactile process of the rising and falling of the abdomen, which is the basic object of mindfulness in this practice."
Alternatively, for Samatha, there are books like The Mind Illuminated.
For a combination of both in a really clear and easy to follow course format, you might look at MIDL, https://midlmeditation.com/
Whatever plan you choose is probably fine but getting clear about what exactly you plan to do makes a big difference. When I was learning to meditate, I started each sit by setting a formal intention by saying it to myself (for example, I will note everything that happens, or I will stay with the breath, or whatever).
There are two main approaches/aspects to meditation: Samatha and Vipassana (sati). In the former, you still the mind by letting go of distractions such as thoughts so that the mind does not chase its own tail in the way that it usually does. In the latter, you pay careful attention to whatever the mind does so that the mind does not overlook parts of its operation in the way that it usually does. Samatha and Vipassana generally go hand in hand, but some teachers suggest developing them one at a time. Some say to develop Samatha first, so the mind will be in good shape for Vipassana. Others say develop Vipassana and you will acquire the skills for good Samatha (samadhi). Others say do one kind on one day and the other on other days. 80% Samatha and 20% Vipassana is a common recommendation but so is 100% Vipassana for the first months or even years. There isn't a universal consensus. Nonetheless, I really think it helps to be clear about which you plan to do when you sit down. You can even plan to do both in one sit, for example with a midpoint bell set in your timer to let you know when to switch.
I like your comment about reading the manuals :-)
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/mahasi/progress.html
contains this brief recap of Vipassana which you could read before sits:
"Insight must, in fact, be developed by noticing,[15] according to their specific and general characteristics,[16] the bodily and mental processes that become evident at the six sense doors. At the beginning, however, it is difficult to follow and to notice clearly all bodily and mental processes that incessantly appear at the six sense doors. Therefore the meditator who is a beginner should first notice the perfectly distinct process of touch, perceived through the door of bodily sensitivity; because the Visuddhimagga says that in insight meditation one should take up what is distinct. When sitting, there occurs the bodily process of touch by way of the sitting posture and through touch sensitivity in the body. These processes of tactile sensitivity should be noticed as "Sitting _ touching _," and so forth, in due succession. Further, at the seated meditator's abdomen, the tactile process of bodily motion (that is, the wind, or vibratory, element) which has breathing as its condition, is perceptible continuously as the rise (expansion) and fall (contraction) of the abdomen. That too should be noticed as "rising, falling," and so forth. While the meditator is thus engaged in noticing the element of motion which impinges continuously on the door of bodily sensitivity in the abdomen, it becomes evident to him in its aspects of stiffening, of vibrating, and of pushing and pulling. Here, the aspect of stiffening shows the motion element's characteristic nature of supporting; the aspect of vibrating shows its essential function of movement; and the aspect of pushing and pulling shows its manifestation of impelling.[17]Hence the meditator, noticing the tactile bodily process of rise and fall of the abdomen, accomplishes the observation of the bodily process (rupa), by getting to know the characteristic nature, etc., of the element of motion. Later when he has accomplished the observation of mind (nama) and the observation of both body and mind (nama-rupa), he will also come to know the general characteristics of the processes concerned — their impermanence, liability to suffering, and their being void of a self.But while he is engaged in just noticing the rising and falling of the abdomen and other tactile processes, there will appear thoughts of desire, etc., feelings of pleasure, etc., or acts such as adjusting various parts of the body. At that time, these activities (of mind and body) must be noticed, too. After noticing them, he should turn again to the continuous noticing of the tactile process of the rising and falling of the abdomen, which is the basic object of mindfulness in this practice."
Alternatively, for Samatha, there are books like The Mind Illuminated.
For a combination of both in a really clear and easy to follow course format, you might look at MIDL, https://midlmeditation.com/
Whatever plan you choose is probably fine but getting clear about what exactly you plan to do makes a big difference. When I was learning to meditate, I started each sit by setting a formal intention by saying it to myself (for example, I will note everything that happens, or I will stay with the breath, or whatever).
Mikey Oz, modified 4 Months ago at 8/24/24 11:36 AM
Created 4 Months ago at 8/24/24 11:35 AM
RE: Mikey’s Practice Log
Posts: 18 Join Date: 6/28/24 Recent Posts
My life has become increasingly dynamic and sometimes it is difficult to fit meditation in in the way I'd like. I'm often setting my timer on a bus or train and get far fewer moments of mindfulness versus sitting in a quiet room. I'm working on it, but I know I need to work at it harder. I feel that this needs to be my number one priority, yet in practice it always ends up at third or forth place. I intend to be more serious.
I am also still having quite a bit of anxiety and stress. I got healthier, started exercising a lot more, I generally talk to several warm people in a day, my work is going very well, and yet I still tend to think very negatively. For a while this improved but this last week I have been experiencing it again. The pattern is very clear -- Almost every positive thought is paired with an equal or higher magnitude negative thought which is worrying about the loss of the positive thing. Then, if I don't catch on, the negative thought path continues and all of a sudden, despite my favorable circumstances, my jaw tightens and I end up highly involved in a stressful imaginary scenario. Then there's also the additional stress of witnessing this process happen many times a day -- even if I catch on and stop the thoughts, just to notice the overwhelming amount of negativity adds even more worry and negativity.
I improved my sleeping situation, but I suspect it still has quite an impact on this problem. I will continue to take steps to improve my sleep, but I also need a clear skillful way to deal with these thoughts. I understand that the Buddhist approach is simply raw mindfulness, but for me that feels like a long term goal. I'm open to the idea that raw mindfulness could also be the best short term approach, but I'm curious to know if anybody experienced success with anything else, such as taking any negative thought and shifting it to gratitude or something like that. Anyways, I think the important thing here is that I develop a clear skillful response instead of my current reaction which is always trying to "undo" the negative thoughts by thinking "No!! That won't happen!!" and becoming physically tense.
Anyways, today was my first quiet room sitting in some time. It was fine. In the days/week after my last update, the practice was becoming more productive. I was starting to feel like seeing with a focused mind the chain reaction of thoughts I mentioned and their interplay with wave-like physical sensations was helping me see that the physical stress I feel isn't even particularly unpleasant.
I also uninstalled Instagram and Youtube on my phone a few weeks ago and installed browser extensions to basically hide any suggestion mechanism. At first I was very bored but now I don't look for them anymore. That was a great change. Harder to keep in touch with people but that is far outweighted by the benefit of reclaiming my attention and increasing its span.
Papa Che Dusko I believe the "tap tap tap"ing was helpful, thank you. Though so many things happen and I'm often like 500ms behind, and then I'm recalling and noting what just happened in the past, which usually means I'm not noting the recalling. But anyways, noting is happening XD
Martin, thank you for the refresher. My practice at that time was Mahasi noting, but after reading your post I decided that it might be time to try something else. Since then I have switched to Pa Auk style with the breath off of my upper lip. The first session was great, and then after that I got busy and didn't have any fruitful sessions. But I'll keep at it and be more serious about making time for real sittings. I'll probably read TMI again since it's been a while.
I am also still having quite a bit of anxiety and stress. I got healthier, started exercising a lot more, I generally talk to several warm people in a day, my work is going very well, and yet I still tend to think very negatively. For a while this improved but this last week I have been experiencing it again. The pattern is very clear -- Almost every positive thought is paired with an equal or higher magnitude negative thought which is worrying about the loss of the positive thing. Then, if I don't catch on, the negative thought path continues and all of a sudden, despite my favorable circumstances, my jaw tightens and I end up highly involved in a stressful imaginary scenario. Then there's also the additional stress of witnessing this process happen many times a day -- even if I catch on and stop the thoughts, just to notice the overwhelming amount of negativity adds even more worry and negativity.
I improved my sleeping situation, but I suspect it still has quite an impact on this problem. I will continue to take steps to improve my sleep, but I also need a clear skillful way to deal with these thoughts. I understand that the Buddhist approach is simply raw mindfulness, but for me that feels like a long term goal. I'm open to the idea that raw mindfulness could also be the best short term approach, but I'm curious to know if anybody experienced success with anything else, such as taking any negative thought and shifting it to gratitude or something like that. Anyways, I think the important thing here is that I develop a clear skillful response instead of my current reaction which is always trying to "undo" the negative thoughts by thinking "No!! That won't happen!!" and becoming physically tense.
Anyways, today was my first quiet room sitting in some time. It was fine. In the days/week after my last update, the practice was becoming more productive. I was starting to feel like seeing with a focused mind the chain reaction of thoughts I mentioned and their interplay with wave-like physical sensations was helping me see that the physical stress I feel isn't even particularly unpleasant.
I also uninstalled Instagram and Youtube on my phone a few weeks ago and installed browser extensions to basically hide any suggestion mechanism. At first I was very bored but now I don't look for them anymore. That was a great change. Harder to keep in touch with people but that is far outweighted by the benefit of reclaiming my attention and increasing its span.
Papa Che Dusko I believe the "tap tap tap"ing was helpful, thank you. Though so many things happen and I'm often like 500ms behind, and then I'm recalling and noting what just happened in the past, which usually means I'm not noting the recalling. But anyways, noting is happening XD
Martin, thank you for the refresher. My practice at that time was Mahasi noting, but after reading your post I decided that it might be time to try something else. Since then I have switched to Pa Auk style with the breath off of my upper lip. The first session was great, and then after that I got busy and didn't have any fruitful sessions. But I'll keep at it and be more serious about making time for real sittings. I'll probably read TMI again since it's been a while.
Papa Che Dusko, modified 4 Months ago at 8/24/24 6:43 PM
Created 4 Months ago at 8/24/24 6:43 PM
RE: Mikey’s Practice Log
Posts: 3309 Join Date: 3/1/20 Recent Posts
"Though so many things happen and I'm often like 500ms behind, and then I'm recalling and noting what just happened in the past, which usually means I'm not noting the recalling. But anyways, noting is happening"
This is a very important insight right there! Yes, "I" seem to be always that tiny fraction of a second behind what has already arise-passed! WOW! So ... what is THAT!
Just keep at it, gentle focus, matter of fact noting, return often to bodily sensations, re-relax the body tension, keep a good noting tempo 1-3 notes a second, tempo will change depending on the stage mind is in, which is ok.
All experience is worth noting/noticing hence investigating. Good, bad the ugly, and boring
Best wishes!
This is a very important insight right there! Yes, "I" seem to be always that tiny fraction of a second behind what has already arise-passed! WOW! So ... what is THAT!
Just keep at it, gentle focus, matter of fact noting, return often to bodily sensations, re-relax the body tension, keep a good noting tempo 1-3 notes a second, tempo will change depending on the stage mind is in, which is ok.
All experience is worth noting/noticing hence investigating. Good, bad the ugly, and boring
Best wishes!
Mikey Oz, modified 2 Months ago at 11/2/24 11:29 AM
Created 2 Months ago at 11/2/24 11:29 AM
RE: Mikey’s Practice Log
Posts: 18 Join Date: 6/28/24 Recent Posts
I'm ashamed to say that I have missed more than a few days here. In September my girlfriend and I went on a trip to Bali, I didn't plan my sittings ahead of time, one day turned into a week and that turned into two months.
Sitting is still on my mind every day, but still the struggle is to maintain a real genuine practice, which is a problem of directing the mind. If I'm programming something interesting or watching an interesting show or playing an interesting game, I find that time flies and it is incredibly difficult to stop. That's how I've always been, so it feels like this battle is with a core personality trait.
Anyways, the impetus for returning this time was that I saw one of my childhood friends had died. He was my best friend for a couple years when I was very little, maybe in second grade. That was about 20 years ago. At that time we grew apart and haven't spoken since, so it was more shock than grief. Rest in peace my old friend, and to the one who recently passed here on DHO.
After that happened last night, the thought that there is no time to lose was prevalent enough to remain mindful through this evening, leading into my first real session in a while.
I started this evening with 30 minutes of stretching and 30 minutes of sitting with focus on the breath above the upper lip. At first, a lot of mind wandering and imagining ridiculious stories as always, often about death. Then getting some focus and calm, feeling warping sensations on my face, light got a little brighter, feeling a bit heavy and wobbly or wavy and falling into almost sleep territory where my mind settles into illogical dreamlike premises which I forget only moments after I realize what's happening. This usually doesn't happen unless I'm laying down while meditating, the cause is likely my sleeping patterns this week and lack of exercise.
On that note, since I last posted I started to sleep very well, and my mood had improved a lot due to surfing every day. I still had uncomfortable thought patterns, however the thoughts did not carry much weight. This past two weeks on the other hand I've been alone in another country, barely been outside, and I have royally messed up my sleep by staying awake until 6am because of programming etc. It can be a vicious cycle to sleep so late because it can cause minor paranoia, which makes it hard to sleep, which continues the paranoia, and so on. Anyways, thankfully today is the last of this situation.
Back to the meditation, it's interesting how my mind could be wandering multiple times for several minutes each, and then finally when I get back to the breath all of a sudden a much more stable feeling persists where the scope of my attention feels different and the effort required feels lower.
After writing I feel compelled to do more, so I'll keep going for 20 minutes. The activity here on this community is quite helpful -- and looking at others describe their struggles and claim attainments lights another fire
Sitting is still on my mind every day, but still the struggle is to maintain a real genuine practice, which is a problem of directing the mind. If I'm programming something interesting or watching an interesting show or playing an interesting game, I find that time flies and it is incredibly difficult to stop. That's how I've always been, so it feels like this battle is with a core personality trait.
Anyways, the impetus for returning this time was that I saw one of my childhood friends had died. He was my best friend for a couple years when I was very little, maybe in second grade. That was about 20 years ago. At that time we grew apart and haven't spoken since, so it was more shock than grief. Rest in peace my old friend, and to the one who recently passed here on DHO.
After that happened last night, the thought that there is no time to lose was prevalent enough to remain mindful through this evening, leading into my first real session in a while.
I started this evening with 30 minutes of stretching and 30 minutes of sitting with focus on the breath above the upper lip. At first, a lot of mind wandering and imagining ridiculious stories as always, often about death. Then getting some focus and calm, feeling warping sensations on my face, light got a little brighter, feeling a bit heavy and wobbly or wavy and falling into almost sleep territory where my mind settles into illogical dreamlike premises which I forget only moments after I realize what's happening. This usually doesn't happen unless I'm laying down while meditating, the cause is likely my sleeping patterns this week and lack of exercise.
On that note, since I last posted I started to sleep very well, and my mood had improved a lot due to surfing every day. I still had uncomfortable thought patterns, however the thoughts did not carry much weight. This past two weeks on the other hand I've been alone in another country, barely been outside, and I have royally messed up my sleep by staying awake until 6am because of programming etc. It can be a vicious cycle to sleep so late because it can cause minor paranoia, which makes it hard to sleep, which continues the paranoia, and so on. Anyways, thankfully today is the last of this situation.
Back to the meditation, it's interesting how my mind could be wandering multiple times for several minutes each, and then finally when I get back to the breath all of a sudden a much more stable feeling persists where the scope of my attention feels different and the effort required feels lower.
After writing I feel compelled to do more, so I'll keep going for 20 minutes. The activity here on this community is quite helpful -- and looking at others describe their struggles and claim attainments lights another fire
Mikey Oz, modified 2 Months ago at 11/4/24 9:11 AM
Created 2 Months ago at 11/4/24 9:11 AM
RE: Mikey’s Practice Log
Posts: 18 Join Date: 6/28/24 Recent Posts
Day 2 was nothing special.
Day 3, today, was not bad. 30 minutes of stretching and 30 minutes of sitting with the breath on my upper lip. The frequency of my negative thoughts is lower. It's mostly breath for a few seconds, then imagining for 10 seconds, then back to breath, etc.
As I mentioned before there is usually a moment about 10 or 15 minutes in where I feel that the scope of my attention has suddenly changed and the breath feels more at center stage if you will. That tends to dissipate after a few minutes, and I go back to 'normal' until the end of the session.
I may try to do another hour in the mornings. I tend to know my own patterns and consciously avoid pushing too hard at the risk of blowing the entire endeavor, however I'm in the right mood to try it, so I'm going to give it a shot.
Day 3, today, was not bad. 30 minutes of stretching and 30 minutes of sitting with the breath on my upper lip. The frequency of my negative thoughts is lower. It's mostly breath for a few seconds, then imagining for 10 seconds, then back to breath, etc.
As I mentioned before there is usually a moment about 10 or 15 minutes in where I feel that the scope of my attention has suddenly changed and the breath feels more at center stage if you will. That tends to dissipate after a few minutes, and I go back to 'normal' until the end of the session.
I may try to do another hour in the mornings. I tend to know my own patterns and consciously avoid pushing too hard at the risk of blowing the entire endeavor, however I'm in the right mood to try it, so I'm going to give it a shot.
Mikey Oz, modified 2 Months ago at 11/6/24 6:13 AM
Created 2 Months ago at 11/6/24 6:13 AM
RE: Mikey’s Practice Log
Posts: 18 Join Date: 6/28/24 Recent Posts
Session 4a and 4b were not bad. I look forward to the sittings. However the breath doesn't really stick most of the time.
I drank some caffeine and the muscle under my eyebrow was throbbing the entire time, which made me remember my second 30 day retreat where I developed an uncomfortable mental agitation of constantly noticing my tongue position which would cause high saliva production and I'd have to frequently swallow. I wasn't sure what to do, at that time I was mindful enough that when I rested my attention on the inside of my mouth rather than always returning to the breath, the sensations would eventually dissolve, but in the end it felt like I didn't really find a skillful way to work with it.
Remembering that of course brought it back. But since this time I have switched to a concentration approach I just tried to force my attention to stay on the breath. I think one con of the noting approach is that it becomes easy for me to overthink what I should pay attention to, which then should be paid attention to, which is a little much sometimes.
5a was also not bad, the morning sittings feel different with the grogginess. There's this sensation of physical resistance to focusing on the breath.
Anyways, I'm happy to be doing this. Reading the forum helps.
I drank some caffeine and the muscle under my eyebrow was throbbing the entire time, which made me remember my second 30 day retreat where I developed an uncomfortable mental agitation of constantly noticing my tongue position which would cause high saliva production and I'd have to frequently swallow. I wasn't sure what to do, at that time I was mindful enough that when I rested my attention on the inside of my mouth rather than always returning to the breath, the sensations would eventually dissolve, but in the end it felt like I didn't really find a skillful way to work with it.
Remembering that of course brought it back. But since this time I have switched to a concentration approach I just tried to force my attention to stay on the breath. I think one con of the noting approach is that it becomes easy for me to overthink what I should pay attention to, which then should be paid attention to, which is a little much sometimes.
5a was also not bad, the morning sittings feel different with the grogginess. There's this sensation of physical resistance to focusing on the breath.
Anyways, I'm happy to be doing this. Reading the forum helps.
shargrol, modified 2 Months ago at 11/6/24 7:10 AM
Created 2 Months ago at 11/6/24 7:07 AM
RE: Mikey’s Practice Log
Posts: 2808 Join Date: 2/8/16 Recent Posts
Right, the noting approach can become kind of neurotic... the antidote is to also use noting. For example, note when the mind gets fixated on a particular approach and then note that, too. like or "trying to control mind" or "needing-to-focus-on-breath thought" or "over-focusing" or something like that. basically invent your own labels for the habits/patterns you see yourself doing. And that way, even when you go off track a little, you can note it and it becomes fuel for your noting practice.
Basically, noting is a way to recognize and make friends with your own mind. And it's interesting, the more you make friends with it, the better behaved it becomes. And when it isn't behaving, then it's like someone who is a friend but is doing something temporarily stupid -- it's still your friend, you just don't agree with it at the moment.
Basically, noting is a way to recognize and make friends with your own mind. And it's interesting, the more you make friends with it, the better behaved it becomes. And when it isn't behaving, then it's like someone who is a friend but is doing something temporarily stupid -- it's still your friend, you just don't agree with it at the moment.
Mikey Oz, modified 2 Months ago at 11/7/24 9:19 AM
Created 2 Months ago at 11/7/24 9:16 AM
RE: Mikey’s Practice Log
Posts: 18 Join Date: 6/28/24 Recent Posts
Thank you shargrol. Interesting, if you don't mind, how do you find that the process of noting is like becoming friends?
And for the practice log, the last sessions were good. After some dozen sessions with trying the concentration approach, I don't know if it feels more effective. For one, focusing on the abdomen feels more soothing and grounding which by nature draws more attention from me. For another, noting feels more mindful, in that noting when the mind wanders brings the opportunity to remain concentrated even when wandering is happening, and also become conscious of and stop the wandering sooner.
Still not that much traction though. There are some familiarities cropping up, like on my last retreat I got a very intense pressure in my forehead (not an "ache" per se but the intensity and duration was getting a bit scary) and I could feel some inklings of that again.
But my sleeping schedule etc. are really coming together quickly now with some recent personal developments so I'm hopeful for more mindful sessions soon.
And for the practice log, the last sessions were good. After some dozen sessions with trying the concentration approach, I don't know if it feels more effective. For one, focusing on the abdomen feels more soothing and grounding which by nature draws more attention from me. For another, noting feels more mindful, in that noting when the mind wanders brings the opportunity to remain concentrated even when wandering is happening, and also become conscious of and stop the wandering sooner.
Still not that much traction though. There are some familiarities cropping up, like on my last retreat I got a very intense pressure in my forehead (not an "ache" per se but the intensity and duration was getting a bit scary) and I could feel some inklings of that again.
But my sleeping schedule etc. are really coming together quickly now with some recent personal developments so I'm hopeful for more mindful sessions soon.
Martin, modified 2 Months ago at 11/9/24 11:42 AM
Created 2 Months ago at 11/9/24 11:42 AM
RE: Mikey’s Practice Log
Posts: 1064 Join Date: 4/25/20 Recent Posts
I hope you don't mind a random person jumping in here. For me, noting was very much like making friends. Before I started noting, lots of things that my mind did were mysterious, and many were annoying, confusing, or even threatening. Noting let me see that the mind keeps doing very similar (often identical) things, again and again. Once I saw these things enough, and gave them names, they became familiar. It is a bit like walking through a new neighborhood (maybe in a rough part of town). The first time, you are startled by the barking dog, or nervous when you see the big dude hanging out on the corner, or creeped out by the lady watching you through the window. But if you walk through the neighborhood every day, after a while, you are laughing at Excitable Dog, nodding hello to Big Dude, and hoping Lady is having a good day.
So I would find myself thinking things along the lines of, "oh, here comes Monkey Mind" or "hey, Impatience, there you are, what look you so long today?"
The first meditation handbook that I read was called Turning the Mind Into an Ally, and I think that title captures a very useful way of approaching meditation.
So I would find myself thinking things along the lines of, "oh, here comes Monkey Mind" or "hey, Impatience, there you are, what look you so long today?"
The first meditation handbook that I read was called Turning the Mind Into an Ally, and I think that title captures a very useful way of approaching meditation.