Hi everyone,

It may well be debatable whether or not I'm actually attaining 3rd jhana, but it certainly seems that way. My jhanas seem quite soft, as opposed to some jhanic experiences I've had in the past but for the past little while I've been enjoying repeatable success in moving through some very conducive samadhic states.

First let me briefly describe how I progress through 1-3, then I'd really appreciate any help I can get on how to attain 4th.

1st
1st jhana kind of creeps over me gradually. I have to relax the body and connect it to the sensation of continuous touch at the base of the nostrils for this to happen. The relaxing is like tuning into the right channel. There is a real sweet spot of no resistance that needs constant adjustment till 1st is really up and running then less so moving forward. The level of pleasure though the body varies from mildish to fairly hard, but as mentioned above I am not too absorbed. I can think, evaluate, daydream for a bit etc.

2nd
If I just keep cultivating that pleasure then eventually it becomes effortless. Like it's on auto. It doesn't often get much more intense, just has the distinct feeling that someone "threw the switch" rather than having me pump the bellows the whole time. The mind quietens down considerably.

3rd
At some point I feel the hint of a shift in focus. Bodily sensation starts to grab my attention. It's like noticing a small flame. If I blow on it (ie if I deliberately encourage the attention to move to it) it takes over completely. If any really "happiness" was there it drops away, but I dont really feel overcome with joy generally at any point so... If I'm smiling then the smile doesn't want to stay.

This state quietens down the mind even more, and the bodily sensations can vary from fairly powerful to very powerful. It's pretty good stuff.

Now then...
If you don't think Im in 3rd, or think I'm doing something else entirely here go ahead and talk to me about that. I'd appreciate it. Right now I'm going to continue to assume I'm in a fairly soft 3rd jhana though and talk about how to get to 4th.

How to get to fourth?
I read MCTB that just noticing how noisy the bodily bliss was would do it. Certainly my progress through the other jhanas has been pretty automatic but I don't seem to be able to move beyond 3rd currently.

Tonight I turned the attention in on itself. This proved very interesting. I stopped watching the bodily bliss and focused on "attention" itself. It felt kind of like sinking backward into my own head. The bodily bliss dropped, but it did not feel "profoundly calm". I did feel calm, the mind was quiet, but I didn't get the feeling this was it. Im not sure what it was, other than an interesting samadhi experience.

Can anyone comment on any of this and help me understand these experiences a bit better please?

Many thanks,

What you think is third probably is, but it's just a very soft third jhana. In progressing from 1 through 4, each one going up was softer than the one proceeding it. Repeatedly sitting in a jhana allows you to "stew" in it. With repeated stewing, it moves from the soft end towards the harder end of the scale. The term Kenneth Folk used at the time was "ripening", which sure fits the bill. So if you are in the 3rd, and the 3rd is soft, and you can get to the 4th it will be extremely soft.

As far as the 4th jhana goes, there have only been a few times I've been in that territory and been absorbed to any degree, which would put me at the soft end of the scale...making it less a jhana and more straight up 11th nana/equanimity. So for me to solidify it into a jhana, I guess it will need more stewing and seasoning. What you say about it not feeling "profoundly calm" but the mind being quiet resonates with me.

One thing you can try in the 2nd and 3rd to reach a more absorbed/harder state is turning away from the piti (2nd) or sukha (3rd) and look for a silence. Turn you attention to this silence; the piti/sukha is still there, but just not the main or full object of attention. To me this silence is a palpable thing once the soft jhana has developed a little (Three cheers for soft jhanas!). If you can take this silence as your object, your one-pointedness will develop, leading to more increased ripening/absorption/harder jhana.

When in the 11th nana/4th jhana territory, the silence thing is pretty much right there in your face (with the spaciouness), as opposed to being an alternate primary focus that can be used as I described above. When in that neck of the woods I stay on the 11th nana side trying to do the things mentioned in the equanimity threads to get stream entry.

I think your getting to the 4th will entail additional ripening in the 3rd; my 3rd was very shakey until the 2rd had firmed up. You can try resolutions before hand.

I hope this helps.

Eric

Sounds like we're in a very similar place Eric. Thanks for this, really useful stuff. I'll start putting it into action!

As I do Goenka-style scanning I find 3rd jhana pretty perfect. There's a ton of sensation in the body so you're already up to speed before you even start. I'll work on hardening them all, but particularly 3rd when I reach it (I don't always quite make it that far as I generally stop anapana after 20mins).

Thanks again,

I should give the scanning a try. I have a couple of guided sessions by Ayya Khemma from dharmaseed.org. My morning sits usually trail off into sloth & torpor or outright sleep and the scanning might be a more wakeful alternative practice.

Are you doing noting Eric?

The thing I like about scanning is it's simplicity. It's a simple technique, with very little room for embellishment or intellectualising. You scan the body, notice the changes. Rinse and repeat until done.

Wether it works or not I'll have to answer after I get stream entry. It feels like that is not far away.

The noting never clicked for me. I smashed my head a against that wall for a long time and then gave up on it.