Andrew B.:
Hello,
I've been wondering about this for a while now: is there a correlation between the siddhis and the "gifts of the Holy Spirit" that one might find in Charismatic Christian churches? I have a few family members who attend a Charismatic Episcopal Church, and there are many members there who openly display gifts that seem identical to some Buddhist siddhis: things like prophetic dreams or just sudden bursts of prophetic inspiration, strong faith, and speaking in tongues (I'm actually not sure if that one is mentioned at all in Buddhism). Though I don't subscribe to their belief system, a lot of this stuff is pretty undeniable for me. I've even been given a Word.
As I recall in Daniel Ingram's book, many people who are "born again," as my family members and most of the members of this particular church are, have actually had an Arising and Passing Away experience. I don't remember if this particular experience related to attainment of psychic powers, though.
So, any thoughts on this at all?
I know this is an old thread, but it's also unanswered, so I'll throw in my 2c. This is based on having been-there done-that on the whole charismatic Christianity thing.
I find it absolutely plausible that what are described as the charismatic gifts are indeed in some way connected with other "powers" from various other traditions. I have level-head, cautious-minded Christian friends who, in the privacy of a small group, will admit to experiences such as being levitated, or encountering entities they referred to as angels. Miraculous healing (or rather, events that claimed that label) are common. And speaking in tongues, prophecy, words of knowledge, are really pretty much an everyday event. I have personally seen phenomena that could be interpreted as being all of those. And I have seen many times the phenomenon known as "baptism in the Holy Spirit", which could be interpreted as some kind of A&P or jhana or more. I myself was considered by my church to have been "given" the gifts of prophecy and of tongues (although pretty much everyone and their dog gets tongues
). I have given umpteen prophecies over the years, and I spoke in tongues all the time. In fact, once or twice I even prophesied *in* tongues. If you were here, I could demonstrate tongues for you right now, as easily as I could demonstrate turning on a light, or making a fried egg. (Mmm, fried egg.) And this stuff goes back to before the modern wave of charismatic stuff.
Padre Pio and
Jean Vianney are just two relative recents worth looking at, before pushing back further towards the desert fathers. So, yes, it looks like there may well be powers in them thar Christians.
However, I also believe that in practice there is a whole lot of figments of people's imagination, ignorance of modern science[1], and even downright charlatanry, that muddies this whole area. As far as I can see, that's not a problem of Christianity alone. Buddhism and pretty much every other world view is vulnerable to it too. In fact, another problem is that even in the face of the genuine article -- the actual manifestation of a true charismatic gift[2] -- sometimes people can over-emphasize its significance and give greater credence to *everything* the original gift wielder does. So someone tells you accurately that God has just healed your vision. Cool. And then they tell you that you're supposed to move to Bolivia and preach the gospel while wearing a chicken costume. Hmm. Maybe *not* cool. Accuracy in the first does not, of itself, imply accuracy in the second. I've seen such an effect[3] in and around the so-called "Toronto Blessing", resulting in whole churches fracturing. An additional problem -- and again, I think we see it here too on DhO -- is a degree of social pressure (mostly only in the mind of the individual) that experiencing any given thing, be it A&P or "the gift of tongues", is a good thing. The result of that is people want the experience so much -- hey, who wouldn't want to have an anointing by the supreme all-loving power in the universe -- that they just make it up. And of course, they may not realize they are making it up. I class pretty much every "power" aspect of my own Christian experience of being that kind. Figments of my imagination, conjured up as part of integrating into a group of very nice people (including some *very* pretty girls who passed around hugs like candy) who held such things -- the real ones obviously, not my figments -- in high regard.
My overall conclusion -- and this is a life's work, so who knows what I'll be thinking next week
-- is that:
a. There is a whole lot of utter shite and nonsense in Christianity as we see it manifest around us
b. Deep under the shite, I suspect there's a profound core and it's *exactly* the same thing being pursued in Buddhism, Hinduism, Sufism, even
Quantum Mechanics, etc (all of which have their own warm, comforting layers of shite). And I get the feeling that some good places to start looking for that core are John of the Cross, Teresa of Avila, The Cloud of Unknowing, and so on. Also, a couple of recent Buddhist Geeks podcasts could be of use:
http://www.buddhistgeeks.com/author/david_frenette/A final point of caution, in case you're looking to bring up, with your charismatic friends, this possible connection. One of the nastier and more tragic parts of the particular shite that has accreted around a lot of Christianity is a bigotry against anything unorthodox, and with an intensity that borders on the vicious. Individual Christians can be as nice as nice, but when it comes to dogmatic belief, they can be as bad as ... well, I was going to say they can be as bad as the Spanish Inquisition, but, well, hah!
For example, the Buddhist Geeks podcasts refer to Centering Prayer, and I know some Catholics who would react badly to that. And then Jean Vianney and Padre Pio, while beloved by Catholics, could be a red rag to a bull to some evangelicals who don't even accept that Catholics are Christians! And If you were ever to try talking about *any* of this to
Fred Phelps and friends, could you let me know first so I can watch?
R.
[1] Or, just as bad, over-reliance on modern science. I don't think Christians -- even people who don't believe in things like evolution -- realize just how much territory they have yielded unnecessarily to science. I once tried to explain to a church friend (while I was still involved) that I found it far more miraculous that people were *not* healed when we prayed for them than the occasional time it seemed they were. For me the failure-to-heal-through-prayer is a sign that the laws of physics are standing strong, and *that* is the miracle. What's profound is not someone waving a wand over a hat and a rabbit jumping out. It's that no matter how many times one waves that wand, a rabbit *never* jumps out! My friend just looked at me as if I'd just denied the Holy Spirit
[2] Not that I'm saying any such thing actually exists.
[3] The giving credence part. I'm not saying that any component of the "Toronto Blessing" was the genuine article. (But I'm not saying none of them were either.)
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