Shinzen on dependent origination?

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 Tarver , modified 9 Years ago.

Shinzen on dependent origination?

Posts: 262 Join Date: 2/3/10 Recent Posts
I asked about "updates" to the doctrine of dependent origination in another post. Does anyone has links or info on what Shinzen in particular has to say about this topic, given his penchant for revision and re-packaging of useful ancient ideas?
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Yadid dee, modified 9 Years ago.

RE: Shinzen on dependent origination?

Posts: 258 Join Date: 9/11/09 Recent Posts
You should definitely email him and ask, if you didn't find anything about it on the web.
When I sat a retreat with him a few weeks back, he said he loves to answer people's questions and that we should E-mail him to ask anything.
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 Tarver , modified 9 Years ago.

RE: Shinzen on dependent origination?

Posts: 262 Join Date: 2/3/10 Recent Posts
Yadid, a couple of points:

1) I don't actually have Shinzen's email address, and it isn't apparent on his website. Presumably he releases it to those who have done retreats with him.

2) I am in fact going to do a Shinzen retreat in a few weeks! As I have taken an interest in this topic, I want to read all I can about it before asking a question, which I most certainly will when I get the chance.

3) Given how important other commentators have said that dependent origination is, I find it curious that the topic does not exactly leap out of Shinzen's teachings, given how comprehensively he has covered so many other bases. What gives?

4) There is value in conducting as much of my dharma correspondence "in public" as possible, because it allows others to look up these posts. If one person thinks to post a question, odds are that many others have wondered the same.

5) It is harder to notice something missing, than something that "is there." I may be noticing something missing, and wish to call attention to it.

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Yadid dee, modified 9 Years ago.

RE: Shinzen on dependent origination?

Posts: 258 Join Date: 9/11/09 Recent Posts
 Tarver :

1) I don't actually have Shinzen's email address, and it isn't apparent on his website. Presumably he releases it to those who have done retreats with him.

It is shinzen at meditationtraining dot com.

I am sure he will appreciate you sending a question, as he made it clear that anyone should email him with any questions they have and that he loves to answer.

Tarver:

3) Given how important other commentators have said that dependent origination is, I find it curious that the topic does not exactly leap out of Shinzen's teachings, given how comprehensively he has covered so many other bases. What gives?

Perhaps it does leap out of his teaching, but is not labelled as 'dependent origination' so it is not as apparent as it could be.
I heard him talk about tanha (craving) leading to dukkha (unsatisfactoriness), and explains that in theoretical and experiential terms, which sounds to me like a simplified version of dependent origination (as in the dependent origination it goes: contact -> vedana -> tanha -> upadana (clinging) -> bhava (becoming) -> jati (birth) -> dukkha)


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When and where is your retreat?
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 Tarver , modified 9 Years ago.

RE: Shinzen on dependent origination?

Posts: 262 Join Date: 2/3/10 Recent Posts
Thanks, that's helpful.

The retreat is at Mount Carmel near Niagara Falls, April 29.
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Yadid dee, modified 9 Years ago.

RE: Shinzen on dependent origination?

Posts: 258 Join Date: 9/11/09 Recent Posts
 Tarver :
Thanks, that's helpful.

The retreat is at Mount Carmel near Niagara Falls, April 29.


Ah fun, 10 days?

I'm also going on a retreat, a Mahasi one, around that time, April 20th-April29th
All the best, and I'm looking forward to hear how it went.
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 Tarver , modified 9 Years ago.

RE: Shinzen on dependent origination?

Posts: 262 Join Date: 2/3/10 Recent Posts
No, just a week. I am however also attending a Goenka 10-day immediately prior, as in wake up Sunday morning at the Goenka, go to sleep that night at the Shinzen, with not much more than lunch with my Sweet-E and my son to separate the two.

Good luck at the Mahasi!
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Yadid dee, modified 9 Years ago.

RE: Shinzen on dependent origination?

Posts: 258 Join Date: 9/11/09 Recent Posts
Thats a great continuity of practice, now I'm looking forward even more to hear how that went!

This may not apply to you - but just to throw it out there - I spoke to a friend of mine who recently did a 70-day retreat in the Mahasi tradition.
The way he described the retreat sounded to me like that the longer the retreat, it may be easier feel that one has plenty of time and therefore slack in some ways.
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 Tarver , modified 9 Years ago.

RE: Shinzen on dependent origination?

Posts: 262 Join Date: 2/3/10 Recent Posts
That's a good point about slacking when one feels one has lots of time. The converse of that problem is burning out when one tries too hard. I have experienced the first problem when the best dharma I had available suggested that enlightenment was a project for "many lifetimes." MCTB cleaned that up quite nicely. Now I figure that running the risk of burning out probably means that I am putting in about the right amount of effort -- balance the risk of burn-out with the risk of not making it due to slacking.

In the case of these upcoming retreats, the ideal scenario would be to hit stream entry at the Goenka (very conservative and conducive to deep practiced but can't really talk to anyone), and then explore the implications of the attainment at the Shinzen (very liberal, don't know how conducive to deep practice, but from what I gather lots of feedback is available).
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Yadid dee, modified 9 Years ago.

RE: Shinzen on dependent origination?

Posts: 258 Join Date: 9/11/09 Recent Posts
 Tarver :
That's a good point about slacking when one feels one has lots of time. The converse of that problem is burning out when one tries too hard. I have experienced the first problem when the best dharma I had available suggested that enlightenment was a project for "many lifetimes." MCTB cleaned that up quite nicely. Now I figure that running the risk of burning out probably means that I am putting in about the right amount of effort -- balance the risk of burn-out with the risk of not making it due to slacking.

In the case of these upcoming retreats, the ideal scenario would be to hit stream entry at the Goenka (very conservative and conducive to deep practiced but can't really talk to anyone), and then explore the implications of the attainment at the Shinzen (very liberal, don't know how conducive to deep practice, but from what I gather lots of feedback is available).


I know what you mean about that, as I also started my practice in the Goenka tradition for a few years.

Your plan sounds great stacking up those two retreats, and the Goenka atmosphere is indeed very conducive to deep practice due to the solitude and regimen.

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