What is required to get a new path?

M N, modified 11 Years ago at 5/13/12 7:59 AM
Created 11 Years ago at 5/13/12 2:36 AM

What is required to get a new path?

Posts: 210 Join Date: 3/3/12 Recent Posts
I'll try to be specific:

Can anyone obtain a new path using a wide field of attention?

For a number of reasons I am having a very hard time in focusing on a single spot, so I was wondering if very strong momentary concentration is required in order to make progress.

And, more in general, how can anyone sit on the cushion and decide effectively "Now I'm going not to review, but I'm going to strive for a new path"?

I ask this because, as I understand this, in order to get a new path is necessary to investigate sensation with an highter degree of precision, that I'm not sure I can have if I stay with a diffuse field of awareness...
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Ian And, modified 11 Years ago at 5/15/12 11:33 PM
Created 11 Years ago at 5/13/12 12:03 PM

RE: What is required to get a new path?

Posts: 785 Join Date: 8/22/09 Recent Posts
Mario Nistri:

Can anyone obtain a new path using a wide field of attention?

That depends upon the person, where they are in their personal development, and how they use their ability. There is no set answer for everyone.

Mario Nistri:

For a number of reasons I am having a very hard time in focusing on a single spot, so I was wondering if very strong momentary concentration is required in order to make progress.

Strong concentration is necessary in order to be able to see the unbiased truth about phenomena and to begin re-conditioning the mind with regard to such realization. For that reason alone, strong concentration and being able to focus on a single object in order to be able to see it more clearly is of paramount importance.

Making progress on a path is about how much a person realizes and how much of that sticks with them on a daily basis such that it makes a difference in their perception of reality.

That said, being able to make the necessary connections between these truths is also important. That's why it was said that "this Truth is deep, difficult to see, difficult to understand . . . comprehensible only by the wise . . . Men who are overpowered by passions and surrounded by a mass of darkness cannot see this Truth, which is against the current, which is lofty, deep, subtle and hard to comprehend."

Mario Nistri:

I ask this because, as I understand this, in order to get a new path [it's] necessary to investigate sensation with an higher degree of precision, that I'm not sure I can have if I stay with a diffuse field of awareness...

This makes sense (at least from my point of view). It's not a mistake to take it one step at a time. A wider awareness of phenomena can develop and grow with time. Completing one step is the first step toward completing the whole journey. The path, for most of us, is a gradual path. Embrace that and carry on. . .
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Nikolai , modified 11 Years ago at 5/13/12 3:41 PM
Created 11 Years ago at 5/13/12 3:36 PM

RE: What is required to get a new path?

Posts: 1677 Join Date: 1/23/10 Recent Posts
Mario Nistri:
RE: What is required to get a new path?



More of the same practice that resulted in the old path. And a wider attention can be helpful if you can manage it. The anapansati instructions instruct one to take the whole body within the breath. But if noting was your vehicle to 'path', then if manageable you can allow a wider panoramic attention of the body and note whatever arises within that field of experience. A choiceless style of noting. This can lead to another path as talked of here. If not manageable, you could focus on noting/paying attention to parts of the field of experience, like sensations exclusively, thoughts, images exclusively, moods etc. This is narrowing the attention to specific phenomena. A wider more pervasive attention will include more into the mix so be prepared to pay attention to it all. There may be more to see, more cause and effect that becomes clearer from a wider angle. What is supporting/giving rise to what?
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Daniel M Ingram, modified 11 Years ago at 5/14/12 2:59 AM
Created 11 Years ago at 5/14/12 2:59 AM

RE: What is required to get a new path?

Posts: 3268 Join Date: 4/20/09 Recent Posts
Obviously opinions vary, but I will give my 2¢ worth:

Standard theory and many people's experience says that, assuming you already have stream entry, that as the Review phase progresses, and cycling through from 4th-11th ñanas to Fruition gets easier, many will begin to notice subtle layers of mind and experience that seem to not be well perceived, seem to be outside of their current level of mastery, seem to contain unskillful elements that the practitioner had had some respite from in the afterglow of their current realization, seem to be newly noticed, and then there will be a period where there will seem to be a choice: do you focus on the current stages, which by this point generally seem easy, or delve into those things that seem to be beckoning for investigation and clear perception?

There is actually no choice, as there is no self, and reality is causal and happens on its own, but the basic sense of the choice can present anyway. As one becomes less fasciated by the review stages and attention turns more to those patterns of experience (which may initially be subtle, but for most will relatively rapidly grow in predominance in the field of experience), the initial insights that one had for the first path begin to be noticed, by way of the same type of investigation that landed the first path, and so the early stages of Mind and Body, Cause and Effect, etc. arise.

Now, it may be that during this phase Fruitions may still occur, and regression to previous stages may set in. However, as the dharma leads one on, through careful investigation the A&P will again arise, and after the Dark Night hits, one will generally feel more cut off from territory that is familiar and well-mastered, Fruitions may be vague or seemingly inaccessible, and, once the same insights that got on Equanimity are re-obtained for the new territory, Equanimity and potentially the next path arises.

However, it is not always so simple, and some will get caught at the standard places, both pleasant and unpleasant, by failing to have the investigative skills necessary for progress or by fascination by the good and bad aspects, and/or the lack of maturity to handle the new territory, and so fall back or stagnate, and people can get caught in between the paths at times, unable to get back to Review, unable to move forward, and eventually one moves one way or the other, and if that direction is back, then re-mastering Review can strangely help progress, and if one moves forward, then avoiding the standard traps again is of value, but finally, by good, inclusive, clear, standard practices, one attains to the new path.

It is worth knowing that beyond second path, there are some paradigmatic aspects that, if not understood, can block progress, and while standard practices can eventually overcome these, some heads up as to what to look for specifically can be of value, such as the width of 3rd, etc.

From first to second is generally pretty straightforward in comparison to what comes later for most.

I submit this in the narrow context of the paths early paths and working within that conceptual framework,

Daniel
s j t, modified 11 Years ago at 5/15/12 10:12 PM
Created 11 Years ago at 5/15/12 10:12 PM

RE: What is required to get a new path?

Posts: 20 Join Date: 9/10/11 Recent Posts
A new path is started when the mind is tired of the current one. It starts by the same meditation that got you there and that you have always been doing.

Can anyone obtain a new path using a wide field of attention?


Yes.. in fact, at around the Anagami period panoramic awareness is recommended as your object of meditation. Don't worry about having too little precision or concentration.