In 2018 I went to a concert where I took the spirit molecule, Lucy and ecstasy all at once.I look at my arm and I could see through it. I could see the ground. It was dissolving like the ending from Avengers Infinity Wars. Then after the arm dissolved it kept going up until the head area. I can see through that point of consciousness all around. Finally, that point even disappeared and I remember being a point in space in the room seeing the whole room and being it simultaneously. It was like I became the vibrations of the music. I became the waves dancing in space. What would you label this experience?About a month later I had an "Arising and passing" experience after listening to the "Power of Now". Lots of misery around that time. I got a ticket, laughed at the fact that I ran into the same issues, went home, cried, went outside for walk, saw the saturation of reality turn more white, and had thoughts come an go smoothly. Felt like my whole life was built for that "moment".

The udayabbaya nana, or the 'knowledge' of arising and passing is an Insight attainment.

This Insight is usually attained when one has a superbly trained mind. One gets that superbly trained mind .... by training the mind. It is possible that some people have a natural talent, so they start at a baseline much higher than other people. It is also possible that some people are extremely deluded. 

Sitting outside as an observer of your writing here it is impossible to form an opinion.

My advice would be to pick up a well structured training program that trains all 7 factors of awakening. In parallel apply this mind as you train it towards investigating conscious experience in a very methodical way in line with the satipatthana sutta.

Set aside all fascination with drugs and their side effects on perception. If for you drugs are fun and you wish to do them recreationally and can avoid tangling with the law, or with addiction, then do them .... as a recreational activity. Try not to take stuff that happens on drugs seriously.

There is a lot freedom from dukkha / suffering that is possible if you build a very structured methodical practice intelligently designed to build knowledge wisdom dispassion and ultimately freedom from suffering.

​​​​​​​I wish you the very best.

I wrote about two experiences here.

One during the concert and one after.

The one after I believe to be "arising and passing." - as it matches the description from Daniel Ingrams book. The color saturation of external reality glowed in translucent white and my thoughts came and go. Questions came, were answered, then dissolved with absolutely no resistance. It felt cathartic and really good. Cried for a good couple hours.

The one during the concert I feel like it could be one of the formless realm samatha jhanas but I am not entierly sure. Body became see through, point of conciousness was highly concentrated in the middle of the head area, let's say the third eye. Then, poof, that point dissolved and point of conciousness in a mere point of the music vibration in the room. If there is no label or perhaps maybe best not to label then so be it, but if there is I am just curious.

Thank you for the advice. I no longer partake for over 2 years now. Overdid it and got psychosis.

Hey. All due respect to your experience. If it is truly the udayabbaya nana, then I am happy for you.

It wont hurt to set up a daily consistent methodical well structured practice. Plan your work and work your plan. If nothing else, then at least it will give you confidence.

A hallucination?

You have seen that the mind can do a lot more than just think and that the world doesn't have to be just one way. That's awesome!

If you develop a steady practice, you may be able to go further and see more. To develop a steady practice, you might want to continue to study so you have the right view going in, make a commitment to yourself to keep going, make ethics a central part of your life, so you are less likely to be messed up by worries, then just really get into it, keep the mindfulness going, and develop the skill of absorption by sitting every day.

​​​​​​​It's a big project, but it's worth it!

Then jhanas are hallucinations also.

What part of :


has anything to do with the jhanas?

​​​​​​​
If you were on drugs and meditated for a while and reached strong states of concentration then you could have jhana like experiences I suppose. 
The description of what the 5?,6?,7? formless jhanas are sort of sounds like something I could've experienced with the help of psychedelics... altered states of conciousness regardless how achieved are just that. So would that be similar to it.

Locating the point of conciousness, noticing it disappear and then turning into mere vibration of the music in the room. With no central point, no observer, pure conciousness. That experience. What is it?

A memory.

One day you are in the vermilion castle and the next...


Forget the past. Remember the power of now.

Its all good  

then you are certainly going to have a nice day



​​​​​​​on the other hand...

Having had a lot of experience with drugs and jhanas, I would not say they are similar. There are small overlapping parts, in the same way that there are overlapping parts between being drunk and being in love, but nobody could mistake one for the other. 

That kind of experiene where it's intense high rhythm vibratory stuff, feeling that it's all dissolving, especially when the dissolving is pleasant, orgasmic even, feels like a rush, etc... that is typical A&P territory. Totally possible to have it triggered by LSD.

The specifics of the experience: what you could see or not see, remembering the avengers, seeing through some point of consciousness, bla bla, those matter little.

A sign that it really was A&P, and not mind and body, would be: after all the fireworks, something feels a bit off. The center of focus feels "out of sync", the focus is no longer pinpointed. This is dissolution. Just think of it as if the center of focus became fluid, and you can't grab onto it anymore. And yet you compulsively try to latch on, because things used to feel solid, but when you do that they just slip by. And so maybe you try to hold on harder, and harder, and cause yourself pain. This compulsive attempt at reatachment, and panic at not being able to, that's the dark night.

To proceed through the dark night and into equanimity there is a trick: stop trying to grab what's at the center of focus. Just accept that it's currently out of sync. Instead, pay attention to the periphery of things. The periphery of the visual field. The periphery of the entire perception. The  disappearance of mental phenomena. Once the periphery is also nice and fluid, the center and periphery should synchronize, and then perception will feel broad, wide, panoramic, all-encompassing, tranquil, and so on. Both the center and the periphery are clear. All the emotional turmoil dies down. That's equanimity. Then you develop that until it ecompasses absolutely everything. When you notice a zap, a blip, a flip, you got stream entry (but don't try to make it happen, just develop equanimity).

a zap a flip and a blip!

(snap crackle pop!)

baddabing baddaboom


"there is a trick: stop trying"

mahalo for the flower




Finnegans Wake: "In the ignorance that implies impression that knits knowledge that finds the nameform that whets the wits that convey contacts that sweeten sensation that drives desire that adheres to attachment that dogs death that bitches birth that entails the ensuance of existentiality" (18.24-8).
~joyce


ignorance is the truth
the nature of mind
​​​​​​​from birth to death

Wow! Who knew? I tried reading Finnegans Wake when I was laid up with pneumonia as a young man because some cruel reviewer quoted on the back had tried to show off by calling it "funny." For several days I kept trying to read it and thinking that my brain was broken :-)

Googling, just now, I found this nice essay: https://ogigaya.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/the-wake-of-indra.pdf

Huh I can't believe no one else has mentioned this, but the way I might describe this is that it sounds like you may have been visually seeing some of the links of dependent origination (cool!). Like I have a hunch you are seeing three different links (perhaps the body fading is the disappearance of form, consciousness could be well consciousness, duh! haha, and if vibes are the mechanism under the hood driving everything, then it seems like a candidate for sankhara).

So in my experience, they can be similar (usually some kinds of drugs will lead to jhanas), but I think everyone's ven diagram is going to look different on this one.
Whoever could mistake these things? Oh wait....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drunk_on_Love
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drunk_in_Love
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punch-Drunk_Love
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_Drunk

What you gon' do wit' all that junk?
All that junk inside that trunk?
I'ma get, get, get, get you drunk
Get you love drunk off my hump

I bring this all up just to playfully illustrate that things don't have essential properties. There is no way being in love, or drunk, or in jhanas or on drugs is supposed to be. So there might be overlap. There might not be.

I think an easier explanation can be found in "I took the spirit molecule, Lucy and ecstasy all at once."

https://ogigaya.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/the-wake-of-indra.pdf


   Finnegans Wake is an a attmempt to assimilate  and synthesize all human knowledge, through the lens of the artist. "Here comes everybody" transposed to "Howth castle and environs." And it is hilarious if you enjoy puns ("Shun the punman"). A very structured work as opposed to its wildly original execution. Reminds me of rumi's mathnawi, which is similarly oceanic and yet circumscribed.


from the article:

   …it is evident that Joyce’s interest in esoteric thought ran
well beyond the standard texts of theosophy. Joyce’s library (by and large containing a wide
range of literature with a smattering of anarchist works and other assorted miscellanea)
contained books by and about Giordano Bruno, books by Jacob Boehme, Thommaso
Campanella, Emmanuel Swedenborg, William Blake, Friedrich Nietzsche, Rudolf Steiner and
of course Yeats. All of these authors are also favourites of the Theosophical Society, but their
presence in Joyce’s library indicates that he was not content to settle for Theosophical
interpretations, and possibly distortions, of the works of these leading lights of western
esotericism. Joyce preferred to go directly to the source, not infrequently reading these texts
in their original languages. Several scholars have written about the influence of other
branches of esoteric thought on Joyce’s work, and especially on Ulysses and Finnegans Wake.
These include alchemy (DiBernard), Hermeticism (Tindall), the Kabbalah (Coggrave), James
Frazer’s Golden Bough (Vickery), etc. It is difficult to determine precisely the appeal that
this “tradition” had for Joyce, as he rarely wrote about it directly, but it is clear that this
thread runs right through his entire corpus, culminating massively in Finnegans Wake. One
gets the sense, though, that it is the emphasis, shared by the Theosophical Society, on
universal values and the unity of all thought, on the essential commonality of the human imagination regardless of creed or culture, that most attracted Joyce. His attraction to, or at
least interest in, Buddhism ─ with its own overriding concern with universal suffering and
the liberation of all beings ─ perhaps stems from the same place.

lucy
inthesky
withdiamonds