Hello!
I traveled to Barcelona to visit Frank Yang and to film a mini documentary about how enlightenment can manifest in day to day life. Here is the link! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rScUoK2u_oE&t=1s 
I hope you will enjoy :-)) 

​​​​​​​Daniel

I watched the video. Seems a shame to criticize young people having fun. Watching tourists consume bigly is not as bad as watching soldiers commit genocide. All the self conscious recording and pretty posing creates some dissonance. One imagines this young man doing something entirely different in six months or a year. Enlightenment as fast fashion.

"My enlightenment superpower is that I chop wood and haul water."
​​​​​​​~layman p'ang

"My enlightenment super power is that I write a thread titled 'mapping mappo' "
- the extremely humble Terry

"My enlightenment super power is that I tease Terry"
​​​​​​​- the not so humble Arhat Adi Vader

Lol ... just joking. Relax.

One critique I have is that I went into this knowing very little about Frank Yang, other than he claims to be awakened -not that I feel any need to dispute that- and I didn't really learn anything more. 

It doesn't feel like a documentary it feels a lot more like an influencer promo video. While documentaries often promote their subjects they tend to have a more investigative bent. The appeal of a documentary is in the curiosity, in the finding out. There's a journey to it. 

The Instagram promo genre tends to be a bit more "hey we're already here, look how nice it is"
I'm definitely not the target audience. I'm 31, well travelled, had a lot of fun, done a lot dope shit. The Instagram "look at how nice this is" aesthetic doesn't really do anything for me but I respect it's fun to have fun and that this might appeal to certain other demographics. 

​​​​​​​So yeah, didn't really get a feel for the guy unfortunately. Spent ten minutes watching a video about him, saying things a lot of us here have heard a million times... Where's the grit? Where's the meat? Come on brother give me a little soul !! 

If I give you ten minutes of my time you ought to fuck my brains out. 

​​


​​​​​​​... I am actually curious to know more about Frank. Seems like a creative dude. Anybody out there have much familiarity?

if you really want to tease me
try do it in blank verse
and eschew
initial capitals

lolo

one of the problems of the digital age:

enlightenment is spontaneous and free
it cannot be recorded
​​​​​​​

you have to be there


"The revolution will not be televised."
~gil scott-heron

and no forget a quote, some short pithy wood or lengthy jabberwock

(I'm tempted to mock myself, just for fun, and such an easy target)

Thank you, Daniel, for posting this! It's clearly a work of love and I appreciate the work and the courage behind it. For me, it also served as a great reminder, that Buddha Nature rests comfortably in all aspects of existence.

Something I'd like to point out really struck me - and since we're only given a 10 minute glance it may just be due to an unfortunate choice if editing.But the way this video portrays the dynamics between Frank and his significant other, there is a lot of dharma talking being done in one direction. There are a few instances were she keeps in vain trying to get a word in, but even when she does, her input is just being talked over before she can articulate her point. At least in these scenes of the documentary, this feels like her part in the dynamic is being reduced to a prop. Not a whole lot of listening can be seen, except as an aesthetic gesture.

Again, might be unfortunate editing. Might be the uncharitable eye of the beholder. But since this is not a completely unknown behaviour pattern for awakened male minds towards their female follower-girlfriends, it did raise an eye-brow of at least this beholder.

As I watched this video, I found myself asking: Am I watching an influencer play an enlightened person? Why is everything funny? The amount of ego on display is disconcerting, given the dialog. It's just a ten-minute snippet of real-life. Does the editing suck?

"Chop wood, carry water" now "make crazed youtube videos, buy matching outfits" lol

gf just another fast fashion accessory, known for a short time and then no doubt discarded with yesterday's garments...

like the robe of enlightenment...

good fun, eh?


it's only called enlightenment
like calling yourself arhat
(wink)

poor db is probably appalled about now at the way we have treated his baby

(try tik tok)


I wonder if we'll ever get a post number 2 from him

Ah, the brah-rhat Frank Yang. For those not familiar with him, he's been interviewed on the Guru Viking podcast and has been part of long discussions with people like Michael Taft, Daniel Ingram and Andres Gomez-Emilsson (all on youtube, for those interested, as are his own videos wich he has been posting for several years now). From his descriptons of the sequence of phenomenological changes he went through, it does sound like the technical definition of 4th path that is ususally referred to in these pragmatic circles, where the mind has stopped to produce a centerpoint, controller, doer, etc. He's been very open about the works of Shinzen Young, Michael Taft and Daniel Ingram having been instrumental for him to tweak the Goenka retreats he went on to get actual attainments out of them.
What I think is interesting here is that this seems to again show what many, many teachers in many traditions have said for a long, long time: The sense of self going away for ever will not result in a perfected personality, the Theravada ten fetter model just doesn't work out in practice. I think he would be the first to admit that freely. And I think many people will understandably be put off by his lack of development of linguistic skills and his general kinda carefree, joyous, low brow attitude, if I may call it that.
Like, woah, brah.
I mostly can't make it through his own videos myself, as so much more detailed and better worded and logically more sound and less woo-woo material is freely available, and I scratch my head at him being a teacher, but then again, whatever works, he is transmitting the idea of and resources about awakening as a technical attainment that is actually doable into areas of the social sphere where people like the teachers mentioned above will not likely get much airplay otherwise. A flavor of dharma that heartily recommends MCTB2 is something I can get on board with way more than the mindfulness divested of awakening that has grown in the dark of the mushroom culture or some new iteration of sutta-headedness with rat-catcher rhetorics like TWIM.  

A very quirky twist of scenario universe, that Frank Yang-ness it is doing there. I like the sound of ruffled feathers it produces, both in myself and others.

Nice. Thank you pixiecloud and also welcome. 

@pixelcloud: Well said, you have brought balance to the force this thread.  Also great first (?) post.  

Ayy lmao, what a cool guy, so extroverted

Meanwhile my teacher who was confirmed to have reached the 4th Dzogchen vision by the head of Nyingma and authorized to teach Mahamudra by the top Drikung Kagyu lamas has all the free time in the world to teach but no-one is interested. What a topsy-turvy world.

  I'm wrestling with pixie's concept of "awakening as a technical attainment that is actually doable."

Is this really what people think is going on? The teachers he lists are attempting to promote this "technical attainment?" And retailing the notion this is doable?

Authorized by the top and confirmed by the head. Once you get your COA you have arrived.

And can teach the turves on top.


What can be taught is not enlightenment, it is discipline.


I have apprentices. Beauty does excellent work, she has become a talented and successful artist. I taught her the craft, but the art and talent came from within. Many excellent crafters are self taught. People pass by the booth and tell me she is lucky to have a teacher, and I reply that good apprentices are harder to come by than good teachers. I have taught a dozen for every apprentice that actually mastered the craft.

Mastery is earned, not taught. It takes more than a few chords to play the blues.

On that note:

​​​​​​​Anyone can read and practice instructions on how to follow the path, but the instructions aren't the goal. They can lead to something beyond process. One has to be open to serendipity, to curiosity, and to wonder. 

Hello. First of all thank your for taking the time to watch the whole video and giving me some constructive criticism! :-)) 
About the documentary/promo video style, the original idea was a little bit different but we had so little time and were always on the go so i went with a little bit more just observing and recording what's going on without any plan from me or Frank. So in the end I just recorded my experience of the day with them and wanted to bring that experience to people. 

If you are curious to know more I think these videos are a good start. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6kfcYBrKMc&t=958s - conversation between Frank, Daniel Ingram, Evan McMullen and Michael Taft
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m570zTxCpso&t=3831s - Q&A after Michael Tafts guided meditation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQf3KyW23d0&t=405s - One of Franks videos
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4t8KvdMtT4A&t=95s - One of his most watched videos

Hey! Glad you like it! 

Yeah that one is on me. Frank was the kindest to Nicky (and to me and everyone else too). Unfortunately the part of the editing process is to cut something out. If you are interested you can find more of her talking in his version of the days spent in Barcelona on his channel. :-))

Hello Chris. Those are interesting questions. Context is important. Frank has a degree in filmmaking and was posting videos on youtube since it beginnings i think. Mainly fitness content and you could say 'crazy performance art videos'. I didnt know anyone like him even before he got into meditation. Filmaking is essential part of his life. So i would not say he is an influencer but for people who dont know him and his past some things can seem out of place. But he is the most authentic person i have ever met.

Why is everything funny? ...why wouldnt be. We had a great time and lot of fun. simple as that.

Art is subjective. editing can suck :-))

The historical Buddha's message was that awakening was basically doable too, right. "Doable" as in achievable in some clear cut sense. Of course he also taught that one must abandon the raft once one reaches the far shore. So there has always been an acknowledgment that the spoken dharma was a provisional form of skillful means.

As you are probably aware, there is a lot of nuance added in later Mahayana and Vajrayana texts around the spontaneously present nature of awakening. Through practice, one abandons the notion of awakening as something achievable in any concrete manner, and cultivates a realization of awakening as already fully present. There is a paradoxical quality to Vajrayana and Dzogchen due to this apparent need to practice to remove obscurations which ultimately don't exist.

Vajrayana has methods that come extremely close to "teaching" enlightenment directly. For example there is a series of introductions where the student contemplates various symbolic forms, such as light diffracted through crystal, and this is considered a complete path to Buddhahood. There are many stories of pointing out instructions basically triggering a student's enlightenment. But you're right in that the teacher can only point to the moon, not make the student look. Even if a form of discipline is taught, some initiative is required of the student to maintain the discipline. 

There is a paradoxical quality to this too, because one settles into enlightenment effortlessly. So one needs discipline only insofar as one has doubt about one's Buddha nature. The discipline itself may become a hindrance if it reinforces the illusion of making concrete progress along a path. One can easily get lost in myopic pursuit of perfect discipline, or some kind of incomplete path that only leads to rebirth in a higher realm. Actually there can be a certain advantage to laziness insofar as it motivates one to seek out the optimal path to awakening, which IMO is the meta path of going beyond the assumptions underlying paths. So as always there is a middle way between extremes that one must find.

Btw he could very well be the right teacher for many people. I don't mean to completely write him off. But what is his lineage? My teacher has an authentic lineage, the importance of which he often emphasizes. He has told me many stories of the power of the lineage masters (living masters whom he has met). Many lineages are broken, and many who arrogate to themselves the position of dharma teacher don't have any connection with a lineage. This may be a key factor in determining the results of one's practice, yet often goes unappreciated on this forum.

I'm not sure if this was intended, but one might interpret your remarks as dismissive of authorization from lineage masters. I believe, if anything, this is under-emphasized on this forum. It would be foolish indeed to try to figure it all out by oneself, or with some tenuous connection to authentic dharma teachers. Yet a lot of the prominent figures in the Pragmatic Dharma community are apparently of this sort. Rarer still is connection with an unbroken practice lineage, such as the Drikung Kagyu lineage, where awakening was transmitted from teacher to student in an unbroken line going back at least as far as Tilopa in the 10th century. The Burmese practice lineage, from which Daniel Ingram and others picked up the Mahasi noting technique, was apparently revived in the late 18th century. The quality of transmission from truly immersing oneself in an authentic lineage and course of practice is of a totally different order than if one is picking up teachings here and there from various books and Youtube videos.

I like Terry Belle's last post. I think it is quite the statement in a forum that was founded for written exchange about what works (as in pragmatic) in the world of meditation (as in dharma). 

On that note, I initially thought to refer to the "Welcome to the Dharmaoverground" text (top left, click on HOME), but I think the short chapter "It's possible!" from MCTB2 is just perfect for this joyous occasion:


"So why am I mentioning all these states and stages that are thought by many to be largely mythical and unattainable? Because they are absolutely otherwise, that's why. People do attain these states today, though they tend only to talk about them with their teachers and close friends who have enough experience in this stuff to understand and not have odd reactions to these disclosures. I assure you that I wouldn't have bothered writing all of this if I didn't think that it was possible for those reading this book to master these trainings.

As an example of a very different way of relating to attainments, Kenneth Folk was on a retreat in Burma and had attained second path as confirmed by Sayadaw U Pandita. He was finally done with his retreat and was taken to the airport by one of the lay people who helped run the monastery, who, incidentally, was known to be a stream enterer. As Kenneth was leaving, the layman yelled to him across the terminal, “Come back for number three!” meaning, “Come back and attain third path!” Note the many ways in which what underlies this statement differs from the paradigm you would likely find in a Western Buddhist context.

First, most Western Buddhists don't really believe that after a few months of good practice you could awaken or awaken more. They do not believe it is simply a matter of following simple instructions, moving through the clearly defined insights, and tagging a path. In fact, I often tell this story to Western Buddhists, many of whom have been on numerous insight retreats led by teachers trained by the best Burmese masters, and they say things like, “What do you mean, ‘third path’?” It makes me want to explode in a great, world-shaking blast of magickal vajra wisdom when they don't even know the basic structure of the path to awakening, much less anything practical about it. Most Western teachers wouldn't have the guts to stand up and say, “Yeah, he did it, he got second path!” (assuming they were even able to evaluate such a person's practice). If they could even identify the attainment, it would still likely be a huge, taboo secret.

The stream enterer who drove Kenneth to the airport also showed no jealousy on his part, but instead pure enthusiasm and encouragement for those above him to continue onward on the precious and efficacious dharma path. This is also radically different from the relationship many westerners have with those who have successfully practiced the teachings of the Buddha. The driver had faith in his tradition borne of his own practice. In short: it has been done, it is being done, it will continue to be done, and there are good, wise people who would love to help you do it!

Later, I am going to go into details about a practice called mudita, or joyful appreciation, and it is the practice of rejoicing in the successes and good fortune of others. It is one of the four brahma viharas, or “divine abidings”, and is a fundamental practice taught by the Buddha. The lack of mudita has ruined many spiritual practitioners and communities, since where there is no mudita, there is jealousy, comparison, toxic forms of competition, and disparagement or discrediting of those who attain the expected benefits of practice. Delight in the efficacy of the dharma and in those who master it! Delight that beings awaken! Delight in the opportunity to have wise, accomplished companions on the spiritual path! Recognize jealousy and insecurity immediately when they arise and practice appreciation and the gratitude we should feel that we get to have wise dharma companions.

Practice, practice, practice! This is the big difference between those who are merely giving lip service to Buddhadharma and those who really get what the old boy was talking about. Go on retreats with sane teachers and follow the instructions to the letter all day long. Find people who know how it is done and hang out with them. Keep it simple. Avoid magical thinking (except when doing magick, more on that later) and don't lose your common sense.

The simple fact that you have read this book means that the ball is now in your court. There is more than enough information presented here and in the other texts that I mention on straightforward techniques that have a great track record of delivering as advertised. As a wise chef in a gourmet restaurant where I used to cook said to me, “I have two words for you: perseverance furthers.”"


To repeat:

"(...) most Western Buddhists don't really believe that after a few months of good practice you could awaken or awaken more. They do not believe it is simply a matter of following simple instructions, moving through the clearly defined insights, and tagging a path."

"The lack of mudita has ruined many spiritual practitioners and communities, since where there is no mudita, there is jealousy, comparison, toxic forms of competition, and disparagement or discrediting of those who attain the expected benefits of practice. Delight in the efficacy of the dharma and in those who master it! Delight that beings awaken! Delight in the opportunity to have wise, accomplished companions on the spiritual path! Recognize jealousy and insecurity immediately when they arise and practice appreciation and the gratitude we should feel that we get to have wise dharma companions."


So, yay, Frank Yang. You don't fit many of my ideals, but who cares? It's delightful that beings awaken. You put in the hours and seem to have tagged paths. Awesome, man. Yay, dharma!

As for lineage, a lot has been written about it. If it works, it works, if it doesn't, it doesn't. There is a majesty and much utility to a long, unbroken line of tradition, no doubt. But, in a way, that, too is a skillful means, nothing more. An attempt to preserve teachings and minimize accidents on the path, to optimize outcome. If that leads to good practice AND gives you a warm feeling of being on the right team, two thumbs up. 

The Buddha also said to be a light unto yourself, however. 

Kornfield got the go ahead by Mahasi to teach, as far as I know. Yet Kornfield holds that the stages of insight only happen on intensive retreat. If that is not a political statement, but an honest observation after decades of practice and teaching, then that means that not only have the stages never happened off retreat for Kornfield but also for not ONE of his students. In 40 years. Wich, in my world, makes him a pretty epic failure as a teacher of awakening, regardless of how much useful stuff he has written and may have done otherwise. So much for lineage as a garantee of qualitee. 

Same with self learners. That can work or go horribly wrong. 

"Nanny nodded. Actually, they were quite right. You COULD teach yourself witchcraft. But both the teacher and the pupil had to be the right kind of person." as Pratchett wrote. 

The three characteristics are pretty universal, last time I checked, and although I too have aesthetic preferences, the notion that one teaching/learning configuration is superior to the other in some absolute sense is a problematic one. I prefer the pragmatic lense. Also seems a little bit more buddhist-y to not asign unchanging nature of inherent superiority to lineage as an abstract ideal... 

One last thing: All Buddhist awakening methodology is, pretty much by definition, I think, progressive non-duality. You start out you, you end up obviously never having been anything of the sort. In Burma, Tibet and Japan. So the paradoxes that B B spoke of are baked into all of practice that aims at awakening and resolve themselves in one way or the other - depending on wether you're in Burma, Tibet or Japan. I think it's pretty weird that Theravada get's excluded from that club most of the time. 

​​​​​​​And returning to Frank Yang, I like this video the best:
The Ontological Dinner Party w/ Daniel Ingram, Andrés Gómez Emilsson, Frank Yang, & Ryan Ferris

Lineage actually protects against mushroom culture (in the broad sense of important knowledge about a teacher's level of attainment not being available or discernible to students). WIth a disregard for that, there is a proliferation of voices all claiming awakening, but no reliable measure of depth of realization. The lowest common denominator prevails. Suddenly it's more important to have video editing skills than it is to have the highest realization. Authentic dharma quickly degenerates and is lost.

It's interesting that this has turned into a What is Enlightenment thread, but I don't see one mention of suffering. That's fine but interesting because there are lots of mentions of pragmatism and dharma pragmatists are usually all about the suffering. 

Yeah 100 Martin.

This is what I meant by:

"Where's the grit? Where's the meat? Come on brother give me a little soul !!"

​​​​​​​For example what's so compelling about someone like Daniel Ingram is the radical openness and honesty about suffering and the difficulty of awakening. The absence of that kind of candor is always a red flag for me. 

Genuinely curious, who is your teacher?  Sounds quite illustrious.  I would have just asked via pm but I'm not sure that exists on here anymore.

A bit more on the importance of lineage, from my perspective:


I like this description of the value of lineage. I went about the path on my own for years, then found this community and Kenneth Folk, who is my only teacher. My "lineage" is found in whatever you'd call that. Would I have progressed without Kenneth? I have no idea! But he gave me tons of information from personal experience, kept me honest, and helped me contextualize my own experience. Is that what lineage does? I think so. He did, for me, preserve teachings, minimize accidents, and optimize outcomes.

How did I know Kenneth was the right teacher? Was he truly as he described himself? Well, I could read his comments here and evaluate them from the head and the heart. I could interact with Kenneth on DhO and in our email exchanges. I could read, and feel, the receipts from his practice. There was, in my mind, no need for generational approval.

I will share for the sake of those with a genuine desire to learn. Here is his website - in Portuguese, so you might need Google Translate. He had pages in English but took them down; unfortunately there have been some (unjustified and unsubstantiated) negative reactions from English-speaking people online. He was an active poster on DharmaWheel for years, and unafraid to express unpopular views. But he has been trained thoroughly by the top Drikung lamas. His primary teacher was Drubpon Gonpo Dorje Rinpoche, a highly respected lama, with whom he had a close personal relationship for years (they lived nearby in San Francisco).

I've known him for almost 8 years now, and I'm confident I know him very well now on a personal level, as he's been extremely candid with me. We've been in regular contact, usually via email or WhatsApp, but we've also spent a few weeks together in person. I really believe he has tremendous capacity as a dharma teacher. He has not only been vetted by some of the best Tibetan lamas, he has a great capacity to express dharma teachings, a huge wealth of experiential knowledge, and he currently has free time to take on more students.

Of course, one should bear in mind the sage advice of Daniel in MCTB, even (or especially) with someone who has a dazzling dharma CV. Essentially, he is still human, and possessing his share of vices and traumas. Nevertheless his level of practice is extraordinary, perhaps as close as anyone in the western hemisphere to the famous mahasiddhas like Milarepa. His dream yoga practice, which he sometimes recounts, is particularly amazing. The ability to remain in a state of recognition while dreaming is typically seen as the final frontier of one's practice before Buddhahood.

   The false dichotomy of "immersion in a practice lineage" vs "picking up...teachings...fromYoutube" is worth noting.

   Yes I reject the idea that authorities can help anyone realize anything.

    There is nothing to teach, nothing to learn. This is the moon.

Me writing these words, is the finger.

The clouds in the sky are the finger.

The sun,t he wind, the ocean the trees...what sufis call, the book of life. 

Scripture has a lineage. Ancient wisdom has great value. But it died with its authors. Prajna s not found in words, is not knowledge. 

Zen (rinzai) says, "If you meet the buddha, kill the budda. If you meet the patriarchs, kill the patriarchs. If you meet your parents, kill your parents."

If you meet the Self, kill the Self. One gains by losing. "In pursuit of the tao, every day something is lost."

Mumon said, "The buddha sold dog meat for mutton." Selling = teaching.

Enlightenment is unique to each sentient being. Aka freedom.

For myself, humans are last people I would look to for wisdom. I should relate some recent events. I often take my dog kala, a 70lb shepsky, to a stretch of cliffs and tide pools at upolu point. Last saturday we encountered an endangered hawaiian monk seal, only about 1600 of them left. They are one of the hawaiian spirit animals and my personal favorite. I was wishing I had brought my fone and taken a pic. When we returned home I called the sighting in to the noaa hotline for those things and the first thing the guy asked me was, "did you take a picture?" The spot being one of our favorites, protected from the wind and having tide pools like aquaria, we went down there again tuesday and the fellow was still there, all 6 feet and 600 lbs of him. Didn't appear to have moved. Took pics and video. Forwarded to noaa. Went down again yesterday and he's still there. Now he barely twitches when we walk up, he's used to us. Even the dog stands off and gives him respect. He owns the beach we visit.

When you meet your spirit animal one feels a connection with the unseen, with the dead and the yet to live, with passing generations and cycles and relations with all that might seem "other." Me, the dog (my alter ego) and the spirit animal are an amalgam. I can share the story but you aren't me and it didn't happen to you. And anyway I can't expain it. 

Rather like your guru telling you he saw shiva during meditation. Impressive, but so what? If that.

 If you think you are gaining something, scoring some points, achieving, well, then, you are actually only getting more mired in samsara.





from the way of chuang tzu, merton

DUKE HWAN AND THE WHEELWRIGHT


The world values books, and thinks that in so doing it is
valuing Tao. But books contain words only. And yet there is
something else which gives value to the books. Not the words
only, nor the thought in the words, but something else within
the thought, swinging it in a certain direction that words
cannot apprehend. But it is the words themselves that the
world values when it commits them to books: and though the
world values them, these words are worthless as long as that
which gives them value is not held in honor.

That which man apprehends by observation is only outward form and color, name and noise: and he thinks that this
will put him in possession of Tao. Form and color, name and
sound, do not reach to reality. That is why: "He who knows
does not say, he who says, does not know." 
How then is the world going to know Tao through words?

Duke Hwan of Khi,
First in his dynasty,
Sat under his canopy
Reading his philosophy;
And Phien the wheelwright
\Vas out in the yard
Making a wheel.
Phien laid aside
Hammer and chisel,
Climbed the steps,
And said to Duke Hwan
"May I ask you, Lord,
What is this you are
Reading?" 

The Duke said:
"The experts. The authorities."
And Phien asked:
"Alive or dead?"
"Dead a long time."
"Then," said the wheelwright,
"You are reading only
The dirt they left behind."
Then the Duke replied:
"What do you know about it?
You are only a wheelwright.
You had better give me a good explanation
Or else you must die."
The wheelwright said:
"Let us look at the affair
From my point of view.
When I make wheels
If I go easy, they fall apart
If I am too rough, they do not fit.
If I am neither too easy nor too violent
They come out right. The work is what
I want it to be.
You cannot put this into words:
You just have to know how it is.
I cannot even tell my own son exactly how it is done,
And my own son cannot learn it from me.
So here I am, seventy years old,
Still making wheels!
The men of old
Took all they really knew
With them to the grave.
And so, Lord, what you are reading there
Is only the dirt they left behind them.”

pragmatic = what works

meditation = enlightenment = (no-dharma) dharma

meditation works, is pragmatic

we can say so

that's it


​​​​​​​the rest, as they say, is history...

Indeed, the essence here is compassion for the suffering of those who are so thoroughly enmeshed in karma they see no way out of suffering. Only the sentient can know suffering. Enlightenment is knowing the nature of suffering. (It's empty. "Nothing is good or bad but thinking makes it so.")

The bodhisattva suffers willingly, for the sake of all beings. When suffering is not avoided, it is transformed.



from the hsinhsinming, seng ts'an

The Great Way is not difficult for those who have no preferences.  When love and hate are both absent, everything becomes clear and undisguised.  Make the smallest distinction, however, and heaven and earth are set infinitely apart. If you wish to see the truth, then hold no opinions for, or against, anything.  To set up what you like against what you dislike is the disease of the mind.  When the deep meaning of things is not understood, the mind's essential peace is disturbed to no avail.

The Way is perfect, like vast space where nothing is lacking and nothing is in excess.  Indeed, it is due to our choosing to accept or reject that we do not see the true nature of things.  Live neither in the entanglements of outer things, nor in inner feelings of emptiness.  Be serene in the oneness of things, and such erroneous views will disappear by themselves

Nice one Terry

Sir ... why do I keep getting the extremely strong sense that you keep making 'spiritual' sounding noises?

​​​​​​​Please enlighten your humble servant.

I can't hear a thing. 

I wish I could ignore it. But its not just a sound, its a stink!

Buuuuut .... it could just me being ..... sensitive!

I am an extremely sensitive arahant

Dear sir arahant Vader,
reading your posts to terry I hear the lack of your sensitive jokes and smell the lack of your fleeting, almost nose-avoiding fragrance echoing in the other ongoing thread, namely in the discussion on the recent Armstrong video. How come is that?

Best regards!

&thank you all for the colearning i feel happening while reading all this stuff i myself can’t much comment on, only reflect

​​​​​​​perhaps I need to be censered

That would certainly be a smell

​​​​​​​I'll prepare the charcoals 

​​​​​​​

​​​​​​​Went to the vet yesterday to get kala's toenails clipped and I showed him my picturres of the monk seal. 

He told me that the seal was most likely just beaching after gorging.

I thought to myself, "that's my spirit animal!"

Thanks for inviting me to comment Kettu. I wrote down some of my thoughts on the topic.

You know, venerable, if you had called yourself a bodhisattva I never would have challenged it.

​​​​​​​

Sir I am currently toying with the idea of calling myself a zen master and then sticking to my guns in conversation with you.

But believe it or not, I would much rather be your friend than be in conflict with you.

​​​​​​​I am very mischievous though

Venerable Vader

I'm not sure I would believe you if you called yourself adi vader.

I wonder do you regard yourself as a Buddhist, Terry? I mean on a purely conventional level, if for example filling in the "religion" field on a census form.

I tend to take as axiomatic that Shakyamuni Buddha was right, after those weeks of silent contemplation post-enlightenment, to decide to dedicate his life to teaching others as best he could. He could have adopted an attitude of meekness and humility, deciding he shouldn't presume to know what's best for people, or that his novel methods were superior to those of the dog-duty ascetics. He could have concluded that since the Awakening he realized was already perfectly manifest in all sentient beings, he had nothing to teach. Everyone is already the moon mooning itself.

But he didn't. He had the goddamn nerve to go and tell people there was something they urgently needed to do, to assume a position of authority on matters of utmost importance.

I also wonder when, if ever, you were last guided by a spiritual teacher. Personally speaking, the sheer number of subtle pitfalls I've been steered clear of, or dug out of through enormous effort, thanks to my teacher would lead me to believe that such a relationship is virtually essential, and increasingly so the further along the path one gets. If one was to rely merely on texts, the possibility of misunderstanding is enormous. Taking as an example your quote from the Hsin Hsin Ming:

"The Great Way is not difficult
for those who have no preferences.
When love and hate are both absent
everything becomes clear and undisguised.
Make the smallest distinction, however,
and heaven and earth are set infinitely apart."

OK, so the practice is to be without preference and avoid distinctions? On the contrary, acting on this basis entails reifying concepts of preference and distinction. It could quickly devolve into futile acts of self-mortification, eating cold soup directly from the fridge and whatnot. There are endless such ways to subtly miss the point.

It's true that one must ultimately go beyond reliance upon the teacher, but without some involvement with an authentic spiritual guide, I'm inclined to believe one's spiritual development would be greatly curtailed.

    If I were to label my religion it wouldn't be accurate because I amnot religious. I occasionally think of myself as a taoist in bad times and a confucian in good.

   One of my youthful adventures included being initiated by an indian guru with a long lineage. 


   The idea that a person without a teacher is "relying on texts" shows a fundamental misunderstanding of enlightenment. No texts, written or oral, convey enlightenment. As I have attempted to point out, all such indications are fingers pointing at the moon. And the moon is self-nature. Enlightenment is a matter of seeing into one's own self nature.

   Anyone can do this. The idea that it requires a teacher and some sort of generational line of initiators is religious dogma and an attachment to rites and rituals. It also ignores the profound truth that enlightenment is often granted to the simple and uneducated. And, I would say, animals.

   My friend, I could teach you history, I could teach you culture, I could teach you technology, but I can't teach you enlightenment.

   I could learn from you also, but not self nature, because that I must see for myself. The buddha also saw for himself.

​​​​​​​   Lastly, being on the path means you haven't arrived. And don't know what ypu are talking about.

   

Zen texts are pointers, not directions or recipes to follow.

Hsinhsinming means "faith in mind."

To say that "the great way is not difficult for those who have no preferences" does not mean that one should endeavor to have no preferences. Just as the identification of desire as the source of dukkha does not mean one should desire desirelessness.  Obviousy there is an inherent double bind. Don't think about purple elephants. Try and go to sjeep.

Being unenlightened is not a problem to be solved. You are not going to master a set of equations that explains everything. It involves the realization that you already know, that you've always known. What is to be seen is everyday mind. The exquisite tension of a drawn bow.

Millions of years of evolution. Hundreds of millions of years. The way the iris dilates. The heartrate adjusts. The bird soars. The millipede moves all its legs. The whales return to ancient love nests, and sing.

What humans can tell you simply is not in the same scale. Your long lineage a matter of moments. The whole human race a brief candle.



One of schmactenberger's videos has him speaking of the fermi paradox, and what he calls "the fermi gate." The paradox is, given the long time scales of the universe and the vast number of suns and planets, why haven't we met other intelligent species?  Schmactenberger suggests it is because intelligent species destroy themselves in their adolescence. If our species were to manage to control its self destructive impulses we might be able to pass through the fermi gate and manage the planet effectively for long term survival.

That would be enlightened. Everyone needs to get enlightened, and soon.


Seng ts'an was pointing to a state beyond preferences, wherein one has faith in mind. One accepts what is as complete and self sustaining.

At some point explanations lose their power to explain, you just have to get the idea, know how it is.




from unborn, the life and teachings of zen master bankei


Bankei to his assembly: 

Your unborn mind is the Buddha-mind itself, and it is unconcerned with either birth or death. As evidence of this, when you look at things, you're able to see and distinguish them all at once. And as you are doing that, if a bird sings or a bell tolls, or other noises or sounds occur, you hear and recognize each of them too, even though you haven't given rise to a single thought to do so. Everything in your life, from morning until night, proceeds in this same way, without your having to depend upon thought or reflection. But most people are unaware of that; they think everything is a result of their deliberation and discrimination. That's a great mistake.

The mind of the Buddhas and the minds of ordinary men are not two different minds. Those who strive earnestly in their practice because they want to attain satori, or to discover their self-mind, are likewise greatly mistaken. Everyone who recites the Heart Sutra knows that "the mind is unborn and undying.” But they haven't sounded the source of the Unborn. They still have the idea that they can find their way to the unborn mind and attain Buddhahood by using reason and discrimination. As soon as the notion to seek Buddhahood or to attain the Way enters your mind, you've gone astray from the Unborn—gone against what is unborn in you. Anyone who tries to become enlightened thereby falls out of the Buddha-mind and into secondary matters. You are Buddhas to begin with. There's no way for you to become Buddhas now for the first time. Within this original mind, there isn't even a trace of illusion. Nothing, I can assure you, ever arises from within it. When you clench your fists and run about, for example—that's the Unborn. If you harbor the least notion to become better than you are or the slightest inclination to seek something, you turn your back on the Unborn. There's neither joy nor anger in the mind you were born with—only the Buddha-mind with its marvelous illuminative wisdom that enlightens all things. Firmly believing in this and being free of all attachment whatsoever . . . that is known as the "believing mind." 

BUDDHA IN GLORY

  
    Center of all centers, core of cores,

    almond self-enclosed and growing sweet—

    all this universe, to the furthest stars

    and beyond them, is your flesh, your fruit.
  

  
    Now you feel how nothing clings to you;

    your vast shell reaches into endless space,

    and there the rich, thick fluids rise and flow.

    Illuminated in your infinite peace,
  

  
    a billion stars go spinning through the night,

    blazing high above your head.

    But in you is the presence that

    will be, when all the stars are dead.



Excerpt From
Ahead of All Parting
Rainer Maria Rilket.