PCE induction

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David Nelson, modified 10 Years ago at 7/5/12 1:29 PM
Created 10 Years ago at 7/5/12 1:29 PM

PCE induction

Posts: 28 Join Date: 10/20/10 Recent Posts
I was reading about obtaining arahantship from some obscure sources and they listed these very interesting methods. What does arahatship have to do with being AF? Well as I understand it, they are fundamentally the same. I consider the "goal" to be eliminating the defilements greed, hatred, and delusion (as to the nature of reality/acuality). I have never accepted Richard's claim to enlightenment because enlightenment to me is the elimination of hatred (which covers malice and sorrow) and greed (which covers the instinctual passions) and delusions (which covers the insight that matter is not merely passive).

So here is a method put forth by the Buddha, that a person can reach Arahatta solely based upon contemplation of the unconditioned state, and its arising and passing away in one's life. What is this unconditioned state? PCE of course! What is the PCE but an unconditioned state. Anyway, there were also suggestions such as contemplating the qualities of the unconditioned state or the qualities of the Buddha.

So... Putting this into practice has been fruitful. Let me provide an example: contemplating a PCE, and the setting in which it was brought about. How did it arise? What enabled the PCE to arise? What made it go away? In this way I plan to discern the 1) cause of suffering and the 1) cause for the end of suffering.

Any comments? Has anyone used this?
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Nikolai , modified 10 Years ago at 7/5/12 5:03 PM
Created 10 Years ago at 7/5/12 4:53 PM

RE: PCE induction

Posts: 1648 Join Date: 1/23/10 Recent Posts
David Nelson:
I was reading about obtaining arahantship from some obscure sources and they listed these very interesting methods. What does arahatship have to do with being AF? Well as I understand it, they are fundamentally the same. I consider the "goal" to be eliminating the defilements greed, hatred, and delusion (as to the nature of reality/acuality). I have never accepted Richard's claim to enlightenment because enlightenment to me is the elimination of hatred (which covers malice and sorrow) and greed (which covers the instinctual passions) and delusions (which covers the insight that matter is not merely passive).

So here is a method put forth by the Buddha, that a person can reach Arahatta solely based upon contemplation of the unconditioned state, and its arising and passing away in one's life. What is this unconditioned state? PCE of course! What is the PCE but an unconditioned state. Anyway, there were also suggestions such as contemplating the qualities of the unconditioned state or the qualities of the Buddha.

So... Putting this into practice has been fruitful. Let me provide an example: contemplating a PCE, and the setting in which it was brought about. How did it arise? What enabled the PCE to arise? What made it go away? In this way I plan to discern the 1) cause of suffering and the 1) cause for the end of suffering.

Any comments? Has anyone used this?


Although I've done the same thing in the past, I really don't know what others are experiencing in their noggins except for how they describe it in words. And words sometimes miss the mark as I know personally. So I can't really reliably compare PCE's and nibbana (although i have done previously). But I do agree that one should run with the context that motivates one most. If you wish to run with this as something that motivates 'you' to end all mental suffering (as this I do agree can occur in the context you discuss PCE's in) then perhaps Ayya Khema can add to that motivation:


"The path and fruit moments recur for the once-returner (sakadagami), the non-returner(anagami) and the Enlightened One (arahant). Each time they are not only deepened, but can be lengthened. One could compare this to having examinations at the university. If one is going through four years of university study to get a certain degree, one has to pass examinations at the end of each year. One has to answer questions each time, based on one's previously absorbed knowledge. But the questions become deeper, more profound and more difficult with each subsequent examination. While they are always concerned with the same subject, they require more depth and profundity of understanding each time. Until one finally graduates and doesn't have to return to university. It's the same with our spiritual development. Each path moment is based on the previous one and is concerned with the same subject, yet it goes deeper and further. Until one passes one's final test and need not return again."

"The path moment doesn't have any thinking or feeling in it. It is not comparable to the meditative absorptions (jhana). Although it is based upon them because only the concentrated mind can enter into a path moment, it does not have the same qualities. the meditative absorptions have — in their initial stages — the ingredients of rapture, happiness and peacefulness. Later on, the mind experiences expansion, nothingness and a change of perception. The path moment does not contain any of these states of mind."

"It has a quality of non-being. This is such a relief and changes one's world view so totally that it is quite understandable that the Buddha made such a distinction between a worldling and a Noble One. While the meditative absorptions bring with them a feeling of oneness, of unity, the path moment does not even contain that. The moment of fruition, subsequent to the path moment, is the understood experience and results in a turned-around vision of existence."

"The new understanding recognizes every thought, every feeling as stress (dukkha). The most elevated thought, the most sublime feeling still has this quality. Only when there is nothing, is there no stress. There is nothing internal or external that contains the quality of total satisfactoriness. Because of such an inner vision, the passion for wanting anything is discarded. All has been seen for what it really is and nothing can give the happiness that arises through the practice of the path and its results."

"The Nibbanic element cannot be truly described as bliss, because bliss has a connotation of exhilaration. We use the word "bliss" for the meditative absorption, where it includes a sense of excitement. The Nibbanic element does not recognize bliss because all that arises is seen as stress. "The bliss of Nibbana" may give one the impression that one may find perfect happiness, but the opposite is true. One finds that there is nothing and therefore no more unhappiness, only peace.
To look for path and fruit will not bring them about, because only moment to moment awareness can do so. This awareness will eventually culminate in real concentration where one can let go of thinking and be totally absorbed. We can drop the meditation subject at that time. We need not push it aside, it falls away of its own accord, and absorption in awareness occurs. If there has to be an ambition in one's life, this is the only worthwhile one. All others will not bring fulfillment."

"The initial fruit moment needs to be re-lived, one has to resurrect it over and over again, until the second path moment can arise. It's like repeating what one knows and not forgetting so that one can build upon it."

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/khema/allofus.html#ch12
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David Nelson, modified 10 Years ago at 7/6/12 10:23 AM
Created 10 Years ago at 7/6/12 10:23 AM

RE: PCE induction

Posts: 28 Join Date: 10/20/10 Recent Posts
Thanks, Nikolai,

I found this interesting:

"Obviously we are looking for happiness and peace, just like everyone else is doing. Sceptical doubt, that alarmist, says: "I'm sure if I just handled it a little cleverer than I did last time I'll be happy. There are a few things I haven't tried yet." Maybe we haven't flown our own plane yet, or lived in a cave in the Himalayas or sailed around the world, or written that best-selling novel. All of these are splendid things to do in the world except they are a waste of time and energy.

Sceptical doubt makes itself felt when one isn't quite sure what one's next move should be. "Where am I going, what am I to do?" One hasn't found a direction yet. Sceptical doubt is the fetter in the mind when the clarity which comes from a path moment is absent. The consciousness arising at that time removes all doubt, because one has experienced the proof oneself. When we bite into the mango, we know its taste."

One thing is that a PCE does not really help to determine the next move. It does, however, remove doubt about the experience. The purity of the experience is unparalleled. However, I have not had a "path moment" so I can not say for sure. How does someone who has experienced "path and fruition" compare these to PCEs. I have had numerous PCEs, but no path or fruition...
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#1 - 0, modified 10 Years ago at 7/6/12 2:33 PM
Created 10 Years ago at 7/6/12 2:33 PM

RE: PCE induction

Posts: 104 Join Date: 8/8/10 Recent Posts
The Actualism method is to continually "aim" at the PCE with the totality of ones self by using the quesiton, "How am I experiencing this moment of being alive?" That is, to continually contemplate the PCE, your memory of it, and - more specifically - how your present experience differs, or how you are interfering with experience to prevent it from being a PCE.


The basic point is that, if you know how utterly perfect this moment of being alive *can* be, and then compare that to how it *is*, you will eventually unearth the things that stand between those two, then judge those things and determine for yourself if they are worth avoiding perfection for.