Today I meditated for an hour, influenced by Shargrol's latest post, where he talks about this pure awareness that perceives everything, regardless of where attention is or how it is—whether focused on something vague or on a clear mental state. The important thing is to be aware, to notice this greater awareness.
I started the practice with a very curious mind, eager to explore this. The initial phase was marked by great clarity and focus, capturing everything. After about 30 minutes, when the mind entered a phase of lack of control, there was simply no distraction. Confusion would arise, but at the slightest hint of doubt or uncertainty, this greater awareness would take over, and it was as if I sought refuge in it. The confusion disappeared the very moment it was recognized.
It was like taking a step back, adopting a broader awareness of what was happening. I could see myself observing the object, which was the confusion, and it simply dissolved. At one point, I started having a mental conversation, a comment about the practice, but this greater awareness took over again. By taking this "step back," I noticed the murmuring of thoughts dwindling until it vanished.
This greater awareness took over practically 90% of the practice, maybe even more. I don’t have much else to comment on beyond that. It was as if the entire session had been permeated by this pure awareness. I didn’t notice any dukkha; there was a deep sense of relaxation and security in knowing that this awareness was present the whole time.
At the end of the practice, I considered extending it for another 10 minutes, but the reminder came that it is persistent, not heroic practice, that should be cultivated.

Very nice 

Noticing how this happens is very useful. Dwindling and vanishing are two priceless treasures. 

Commenting on @shargrol's response.

Yes, this has become very clear to me in recent days.

Yes, I still see myself as separate from the experience.

Yes, I can’t imagine what that’s like. Nor do I want to. Now I trust my mind to find the way, and this greatly simplifies and facilitates the practice.

Yes. I’ve noticed this happening a lot in recent days, and now, when I notice it, I just let go. I only focus on being aware of the experience, whatever it may be.

Thank you so much, Shargrol!

Thanks @bahiyababy and Martin! :-)

I meditated for an hour and twenty minutes. Like yesterday, I had the intention of observing this pure awareness of being conscious, regardless of where the attention was or the mental state. The desire was for this awareness to arise. The purpose was to expand this pure awareness. However, unlike yesterday, I didn’t have the same enthusiasm as before. I was more relaxed about it.
I had a moment of clarity and a moment of semi-consciousness, which happens in the phase of lack of control but with less presence of this pure awareness. There wasn’t that intensity of pure awareness like yesterday. Today felt more normal. Even so, I noticed and remained calm about it. Practice varies, and intensity varies. What’s important is to persist and seek to understand the mind.
In the final phase, I experienced moments of doubt and confusion. I observed them and thought: the importance lies in just being aware of them. I saw the confusion, looked at it, and it went away. I have been identifying less and less with confusion and doubt. No matter how strong they seem at the moment, this pure awareness arises, observes, and allows it to pass.
Today, for instance, I experienced doubt about what I needed to do, as if I were required to act in some way. But then I remembered, because this awareness took over. I simply looked, and that was enough. Just observing allowed it to pass, and a great sense of tranquility emerged.

All things are impermanent. 

​​​​​​​You have developed a great approach to practice I think. Well done. Keep it up.

Ok Bahiya. Thanks! :-)

I meditated for one hour and twenty minutes. I started by reflecting on how my life, my daily routine, has been changing—without much worry, without wanting to reach anywhere. There is still, of course, this desire, but it feels light. I’ve realized that it’s the practice, the trust in the mind, and the fact that I’m doing the work that will make progress happen. This has made the desire for progress much lighter.
With this in mind, I sat down wanting to understand the mind, seeking this pure awareness, trying to understand what this pure awareness is. I had moments of clarity, and before thirty minutes, I entered the phase of lack of control, of semi-consciousness. I tried to notice moments of pure awareness more clearly. I observed them and asked myself: “What is this pure awareness? Who is behind this?” But I did so gently, stimulating curiosity.
I stayed with this approach throughout the practice, without changing the focus much. I remained in this process of observing and exploring, with curiosity and gentleness.
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Stop meditating! 

I didn't understand.

I meditated for an hour. Reading Dusko's post, where he suggested I stop meditating, ended up influencing the beginning of my practice. I reflected on what he was trying to convey and interpreted it as a proposal to give up manipulating meditation or "doing" meditation in the conventional sense. I understood the suggestion as stepping away from the common idea of meditating and opening my mind more in that direction, rather than stopping the practice altogether. With this perspective, I started the session.
During the phase of semi-consciousness, I tried to expand the moments of pure awareness, noticing them as they occurred. I also experienced moments of confusion, where I realized I was trying to manipulate the meditation or control what I was experiencing. For example, I felt the need to have more moments of pure awareness and noticed I was trying to make this happen instead of simply observing what was happening at the moment. When I became aware of this, I let go.
By letting go, I had more moments where I could step back and simply see the experience as experience, the observer watching the object.
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Very good. Every thing is impermanent.. even pure awareness. 

Nice! Now keep at stopping meditating and then even stop that stopping to meditate  

Good stuff Barros! Best wishes! 

:-)

Hehe.. your humor is great, Dusko!

I meditated for an hour and ten minutes. During the phase of lack of control, I noticed that I was trying to have control, trying to meditate, trying to give instructions, wanting the instructions to persist. For example, I wanted to maintain awareness, pure awareness. Then, I wanted to maintain the observation of raw, bare sensations in the body. After that, I wanted to practice Vipassana. Then, I wanted to know if I wasn’t falling asleep, if I was truly meditating. Doubts and confusion arose.
Finally, I had an insight that I don’t have control over meditation. Perhaps this is what Dusko meant by "stop meditating," because, in reality, we have no control over meditation—we don’t truly meditate. Sometimes, we are aware, we observe it, and we note it.
After that, I felt a sense of relaxation and began to perceive this more clearly. I had never seen this so distinctly before. I had had this perception in the past, but now it became even clearer: this lack of control, the fact that there isn’t a “self” behind meditating, and that mental states are impermanent. None of them are satisfactory, and none of them are the final answer.
I also understood that the most we can do is set an intention, pay attention to that intention with awareness, and then let go. The mind does the rest. When we establish a purpose, it stimulates the mind to follow through. That’s the most we can do.

If we have no control, why rush? Peace!​​​​​​​

Perfect!

I remember very clearly when I had that same realization. It's never something you can "do" or make happen and you never know when it will happen... which is actually really great news! That means it's not up to you, you don't have to worry about creating a perfect practice --- because you can't know what will make it happen --- which takes a lot of the striving and performance pressure away. All that's left is humble, respectful, non-heroic daily practice.

It can feel like trying to swim up a flowing river, but when you practice everyday and journal your sits, it's very clear that progress is happening. Despite the flow of the river, you are slowly swimming upstream.

But intention is important, so it can be helpful to state an intention at this point, something like "I intend for my practice to lead to Stream Entry when it is the most beneficial for myself and all beings. May my practice lead to Stream Entry when it is the most beneficial for myself and all beings."

Play around with the words you use until they feel good and pure and true. 

It's probably also good to point out that the PATH TO stream entry does a lot of the transformation, not stream entry itself. So questing for stream entry itself can often be a distraction. The gold is found on the path to stream entry, not something that comes from the path moment. 

People often underestimate the Equanimity nana. It isn't just a matter of chilling out in EQ, there is actually a lot of maturity and wisdom that is learned in EQ. Especially the letting go of being an ego-in-charge-of-everything and an ego-that-makes-everything-happen.

In EQ we sort of learn how we meet experience halfway, in a kind of participatory intimacy. And we learn that we have to drop a lot of our willful demands, which can feel a little bit like dying. But our heart/soul becomes lighter.

And ultimately SE is sort of like when we have a light enough heart/soul to let go completely... but really it just happens like a flower opening up, you can't tear at the petals to make it happen. And it "knows" when to happen, so you don't have to do it.

Very good!

Yes!

Good!

Thank you so much, Shargrol!

Very valuable and reassuring words!Thank you very much, Shargrol!

Stop opening all the cards for him Shargrol! Where is fun in that!?  

Hehe.

I meditated for an hour and ten minutes. I started by setting the intention to practice in order to become a better person for my benefit and the benefit of all beings. During the phase of control, everything felt very light. I experienced a great sense of lightness, applying very little effort.
In the phase of lack of control, there were moments when I tried to disrupt the practice. I thought: "If I’m not in control, I shouldn’t even be able to disrupt it." I let it happen—I tried to disrupt the practice but realized it wasn’t possible. In fact, I became even more attentive, more aware, and noticed that I was out of control while things simply happened.
I noticed a great sense of humility in today’s practice. There were daydreams and moments of confusion, but everything was very light, without guilt. When they happened, I saw them as mere events that quickly passed.
Overall, today’s practice was marked by lightness, awareness, and a consistent presence throughout the session.
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Today, I meditated for one hour and ten minutes and noticed that, with relaxation and letting the mind find itself, without worrying too much about progress, we end up allowing it to wander more. I'm not sure if this is very significant, but yesterday I observed many wanderings, so I decided to count and focus on identifying how often my mind got lost. I managed to count 11 wanderings and 4 lucid dreams.
Just to differentiate: a wandering happens when I’m aware that I’m thinking, whether it’s about the practice, remembering something, or reflecting. A lucid dream, on the other hand, is something completely random; I realize I’m kind of dreaming. All these episodes were brief, lasting about 5 to 10 seconds.
I think I need to try to notice these moments more to overcome them, as they are currently a barrier. Without generating too much worry, I’m still approaching this lightly, but I want to improve because I know there is always room for growth. This desire for improvement also gives purpose to the practice; that’s why I’m here. So, without much weight, this was my experience today.
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It's funny, we often forget what meditation was like when we started. I'll bet your mind wandered 15 times in 15 seconds in the very beginning.

Definitely focus on "good enough" meditation, don't worry about "perfect" meditation. Some days you'll have very good sits, some days it will be "meh" as the kids say. Some days you'll be sick and just sitting itself will be about all you can really do. All of this is fine, not a problem.

It's just like going to the gym and lifting weights, you aren't always trying to achieve your maximum lift. "Good enough" training has natural highs and lows, natural effort and recovery, etc.  You can easily injure yourself by training too hard. But injury-free consistency is really the secret to making progress.

When I was working toward my next path, and only sometimes getting into some rare/delicate states, my teacher at the time said to me pretty much the same thing... but it was more like "A hunter doesn't go hunting everyday. Sometimes he feels strong and will hike deep into the forest in search of game, knowing that he is strong enough to kill it and bring it back. Other times, he might feel weak and just go to the grocery store and by some ground meat."

The readings influence us a lot, and since we don't have prior references on the subject of meditation, sometimes strange thoughts pop into our heads. Yesterday, I read about equanimity in the book *Contemplative Fitness* by Kenneth Folk, where he talked about the obstacle of daydreaming during this phase, and I got curious to see how it's been manifesting in me, hehe.

But it's great to have you all here to guide me. Thank you so much, Shargrol!

I meditated for one hour and five minutes. In the initial phase of control, I found myself meditating amidst thoughts, conversations, daydreams, comments, bodily sensations, sounds, jerks, itches, etc. Then came the phase of lack of control, of semi-consciousness. I noticed many lucid dreams but let them happen without counting them. I simply became aware of them, staying very relaxed and letting them go wherever they wanted. However, I always maintained some level of awareness of them.
Well, not much else happened; that was basically it. In summary, the practice is like this: some days are more intense, others less so. And that's perfectly fine.
​​​​​​​

I meditated for 50 minutes. I had many daydreams, but I let them flow and let go. Yesterday, I went to bed late, drank, and woke up early, but I felt like practicing, so I did.
​​​​​​​

I couldn’t meditate today. We have visitors at home celebrating an achievement of my son, and unfortunately, I wasn’t able to.
​​​​​​​

I meditated for an hour and twenty minutes. Despite not meditating yesterday and experiencing a lot of mind-wandering the day before, today I had only a few instances of mind-wandering. My mind was focused and curious. I noticed a bit of everything, but it’s worth mentioning that noting confusion, thoughts, comments, and doubts didn’t disturb me. I was able to take a step back and observe with pure awareness what was happening, with a more neutral quality. I’m becoming more familiar with these states, and they no longer cause me discomfort.
Usually, after a weekend without practicing, I would experience a lot of confusion and dukkha. Now, I don’t notice much dukkha. If it’s present, it’s very subtle. Today’s meditation, overall, was neutral to pleasant, with very few moments of discomfort.
​​​​​​​

Today, I meditated for 1 hour and 10 minutes. The mind was very conscious and present. There were few distractions. The lucid dreams were very brief, lasting about 2 seconds. Overall, the sensations had a neutral tone. There was no discomfort with what arose, but what I perceived felt strange, almost fragmented.
I had doubts about what I was noticing. For example, I noticed a rambling, a kind of non-verbal conversation. When I looked at it, it disappeared very quickly. Overall, I was noticing things very quickly; they arose and vanished in the blink of an eye. This made me question what I was actually noticing. So, I tried focusing on sounds and the body, attempting to understand what was happening.
Even though I was able to notice things, my attention seemed unstable. I knew there was sound, for instance, but I couldn't keep my attention fixed solely on it or on my breathing. The attention wouldn’t stay in one place. I was aware of this, I could see it happening, but my focus kept jumping from one object to another, making things seem to vanish. It was a strange experience and difficult to describe. I can't tell if it was the speed at which perceptions were arising or the variation in attention that caused this sensation. Either way, the impermanent nature of things was very clear.
Despite all this, I didn’t lose my concentration or centeredness during the practice. At times, I had to cough, I changed positions twice, I took off my shirt because it was hot, and later, when I started feeling cold, I put it back on. None of this disturbed my concentration or state of centeredness.
​​​​​​​

I think your consistent practice is really working well for you and I think you will derive a lot of benefit simply from staying with your chosen practice.

In case you want to delve a bit deeper, develop a finer sensitivity to mental objects, I suggest that you can take a small diversion from your current plan. Like two weeks taken out and dedicated to developing sensitivity to thoughts and the thinkking process:
https://www.reddit.com/r/streamentry/comments/h0yt0j/vipassana_mindfulness_meditation_on_thoughts_and/

If at all this makes sense to you. In case it doesnt seem appropriate to deviate from your plan right now, please feel free to completely ignore my suggestion above. Best wishes.

Hi Adi Vader! Over the course of this year, I’ve developed a lot of trust in the guidance of Shargrol (mainly) as well as Dusko and Bahiya. I feel like I’ve made significant progress and have been quite satisfied with the evolution I’ve experienced. So, please don’t take it the wrong way, but I’ve been sticking to listening to only them. Thank you anyway!

You have excellent guides. No I am not taking this the wrong way at all. Good luck. Succeed.

Ok Adi. Thanks again!

I meditated for 1 hour and 10 minutes. At the beginning, I went through a phase of control. My mind wasn’t very alert today. Later, I entered a phase of lack of control. During this phase, I noticed many lucid dreams. There was some drowsiness, but I was present and managed to observe a lot of variation in consciousness. I experienced confusion and discomfort, as well as lucid dreams trying to correct something.
I was pulled from a neutral state to discomfort. When I realized I was trying to correct something, I would return to observing that pure consciousness. I stayed in that state for some time, but it would fade. I didn’t try to force it; I just noticed that there’s really no control over it. That’s all for today.
It’s worth mentioning that I slept less than 6 hours because I stayed up late fixing some things. I couldn’t get the 7 hours of sleep I usually do.
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Just so you know Adi gives great advice also but I think it's totally cool to stick with what you're doing. I suspect you will start to notice more of what Adi is pointing at naturally as you progress. 

Cool :-)

Oh, man I need 8 hours of sleep otherwise my next day is all groggy!  

Hehe. So I have to thank God.
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Today I meditated for 1 hour and 10 minutes. I started in the control phase, being interested in the content of the thoughts, observing how much importance the mind gives to them. I noticed and analyzed the theme of the thoughts and the desire to think, but at the same time, I ignored them. In fact, I ignored the thought itself and focused on the mind's reaction, which wanted to keep thinking. So, I stayed there observing this process, being interested in this theme.
Later, I entered the lack of control phase. In this phase, I noticed drowsiness, lucid dreams, and significant discomfort in the body, especially in the posture I was in. I felt localized pain and a desire to move or change my position. The lucid dreams had the characteristic of wanting to fix something. Then, I decided to let "the teacher" teach me. I stayed in the moment, observing the discomfort, noting these sensations, and allowing the teacher — the experience itself — to guide me.
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Hey Andre, thanks for sharing your practice.  I've been reading a bit of your log and it's been inspiring and fun to read.  Nice work!

I am just curious about something, and perhaps you have defined this in a previous log that I am not aware of. 

What do you mean when you say "lucid dream"?

Hi, J W!

Lucid dreams would be a type of dream where I am aware; I am conscious because it is short, and I regain awareness of it. It lasts at most 5 seconds. Then, when I return from the dream, I realize that I was either trying to fix something in practice or just wandering, but in an unplanned way. It's a type of dream because it is an illusion, in that sense.

I'm glad my log is inspiring you. Happy practice!

Ok, thanks for explaining Andre. The reason I ask is that in my practice, sometimes something happens that I would describe as 'dream recall', that I haven't been able to place or really understand, and wondering if you perhaps were experiencing something similar. Sounds like, maybe it is similar, but I'm not sure.

What happens to me sometimes is, when I get into a deeper, more subtle concentration state, I will sometimes experience something like a memory of a dream, usually one that I had recently had like the night before, but had forgotten about until that moment. Sort of the same feeling as when something in life reminds you of something, and a memory sort of bubbles to the surface.

I'm not clear about a couple of things you said though- 

So it is something you lose awareness of, and then regain?
In my case, I wouldn't say there's really a loss of awareness, but more that the awareness becomes focused on this dream memory.

What do you mean by 'trying to fix' something? Do you mean that in your dream, you are trying to fix something? Or there is a sense of something missing? I don't really get that feeling when I remember dreams in meditation.

I suspect he means more like a daydream or fantasy.

I meditated for an hour and twenty minutes. I started with the control phase, up to thirty or forty minutes, noting well, with ease and attention. Then, around forty minutes, the mind entered the cine-consciousness phase, with lucid dreams, fantasies, and random content, trying to correct something in the practice. I realized that the attempt to correct the practice was closely related to boredom. I also noted boredom connected to the desire to change my position, as I was feeling pain and discomfort in the posture. I observed jerks, desires to change position, and boredom. Later, the boredom improved, and I became more engaged with the lucid dreams and fantasies. That was it.
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Appending:
​​​​​​​During the control phase, I was trying to observe the desires to think—the anxiety or need to think. Later, I lost this focus during the lack-of-control phase. Sometimes, I would even remember trying to understand what I was doing, but I couldn’t recall it; there was no memory of what I was doing. At that point, I let go and simply noted whatever arose. It’s interesting how, when transitioning to the lack-of-control phase, there can be so much confusion that we don’t even know what we were doing, what the initial purpose of the practice was, what we wanted to do, or what we wanted to note.

I don't know if you have seen this quote, but it's from the early years of Dharma Overground and it remains some very hard earned wisdom from a forum member named Tarin:

“The Dark Night territory - particularly late dark night - has a habit of making me unsure which methods are best to employ in practice. Should I note? Should I use open awareness? Should I pay attention to the wide vibrations? Should I go with the discomfort? Should I observe the questioning? etc. I would feel very dissatisfied with anything I tried. Eventually I realized that the nature of Re-observation was to have a cow with anything and everything and when I realized this it mattered a whole lot less what I did since I knew I would have no way of knowing if it was effective practice or not! Regardless, my recommendation would be to note or observe frustration, pain, doubt, boredom, distraction, gaming, predicting, expecting, etc when and where they arise and make sure - I mean really make fucking sure - that if you're killing yourself trying to meditate that you note that too." 

(This might help with the english slang: Have a Cow – Idiom, Meaning & Origin)

Very good to know, this will help.
I think you had sent this some time ago lol. Oh, my memory!

Thanks Shargrol!

I don't think it's really a loss of consciousness, but rather that I follow the mind's fantasy, not being aware that I've entered that journey.
For example, a fantasy of me trying to open a door with a screwdriver. It seems to have a connection with something in the body. I'm experiencing discomfort in the body, and this reflects in the fantasy of me trying to fix something there. In this case, trying to open a door to resolve the discomfort.

I meditated for an hour and twenty minutes. Before that, I read Tarin's text about re-observation, which made me more aware of how to face the Dark Knight phase. When that phase arrived, it was very interesting because it felt like I was prepared to face it. I was very aware of the daydreams, illusions, lucid dreams, and confusion. I quickly realized I was experiencing all that with full awareness. I would take a step back and simply note what was happening.
It was interesting because I had a thought: it doesn’t matter what is being experienced or the mental state; what matters is being aware of it. Once you are aware, you don’t get "hit." It felt like I had a Matrix moment where everything slowed down, and I could "dodge" everything that was happening. All the unpleasant sensations became neutral: frustration, doubt, confusion, illusions. It was awareness that made this possible. I was fully conscious.
Another reflection I had was that going through the Dark Knight is like walking barefoot. It toughens us up. The more you walk barefoot on the ground, the tougher your skin gets. As the calluses grow thicker, pebbles and thorns become insignificant. This toughening, this process of going through difficulties, is important. The Dark Knight is like a teacher that teaches you, and you gradually absorb the lessons and get used to it. Over time, those experiences no longer affect you as much. It was very interesting to realize that.
​​​​​​​

Yes, very good 

... But also 

​​​​​​​One could make the argument that the darknight softens us, allows us to be more vulnerable, as it teaches us to feel and be with suffering instead of avoid it. 

+1

(_/\_)

I meditated for 1 hour and 10 minutes. Today, the Dark Night phase started earlier. By 10 minutes, I was already noticing it—confusion, lucid dreams, and daydreams, but with a strong sense of presence. I was able to take a step back and experience it fully. I began to feel a lot of discomfort in the position I was in. It wasn’t exactly pain, but it was physical discomfort. The discomfort kept increasing, and around 40 minutes in, I decided to do something I had never done before: meditate lying down.
I remembered Bahiya mentioning that at one point he had to do this, as well as an old teacher who had also spoken about this experience. So, I decided to try. I lay down for 10 minutes and experienced more daydreams. Then, I decided to return to the sitting position. From 50 minutes to 1 hour, I noticed the pain and discomfort fading away. They passed.
From that point on, some things started to feel more neutral. I thought I might move into the low EQ phase, but that didn’t happen. In the end, I still noticed some dissatisfaction. I spent time investigating this dissatisfaction, looking for it. I didn’t find its origin, but it was present. And that’s how it stayed until I completed 1 hour and 10 minutes.
I finished by reflecting that, a week ago, it seemed like I was stabilizing in EQ, but this week I returned to DN. I’m sure I went back because I still need to learn to accept suffering more fully.
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I meditated for one hour and ten minutes. I started by reflecting on allowing the mind to be vulnerable, embracing the vulnerability that occurs in the Dark Knight phase. I began with my mind under control, noting well and staying attentive. Around 30 minutes in, I still felt in control. At that moment, I thought, "I usually lose control between 30 and 40 minutes," and I became more attentive to observe myself losing control. But perhaps because of this, I ended up not losing control.
I became more relaxed, but I was still in control. I didn’t feel confused, I didn’t experience memory lapses, and I didn’t forget what I had set out to do. In the end, I didn’t notice that phase of losing control today. I noticed some daydreams and lucid dreams, but I didn’t experience the phase of losing control. When I gave the command to relax and allow my mind to follow its course, I continued noting, but that phase simply didn’t happen today.
Perhaps I didn’t even enter the Dark Knight phase and remained before it. I can’t explain it exactly.
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Nothing stabilizes. Experiencing Dark Night again is part of the process. Don't worry about it. You know what to do. 

Thanks

I meditated for an hour and twenty minutes. I started in the control phase, with a lot of tension. I was so attentive, so synchronized with what was happening, that the idea arose that it was as if I were in an orchestra, listening to it and accompanying it in perfect sync, without needing to note what I was experiencing. I was aligned, synchronized with it.
Around thirty to forty minutes in, I started entering the phase of lack of control. I noticed this and let it happen. I allowed myself to be vulnerable, without trying to control. However, in moments when I didn’t have full awareness, I found myself trying to correct something, trying to gain some control within the fantasies or daydreams. In those moments, I noticed I was suffering. That suffering brought me back to awareness, to the present moment, where I simply noted and observed what was happening.
The rest of the session followed this pattern. I had moments of confusion when I didn’t know what to note. When I realized this, I noticed that I was in a state similar to re-observation, where there is nothing to do. That’s when a simple teaching arose: if this is happening, there’s no need to think too much—just allow. Simply do nothing. So, I just observed it and noted it.
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I did one hour and ten minutes. I started by setting the intention that, during the Dark Night (DN) phase, I would remember the simple instruction: to note and let go. It’s about stopping the effort to fix things. It’s about doing nothing, because there’s nothing to do. It’s just experiencing.
So, I tried to apply this instruction whenever I found myself in a daydream or lucid dream, or when I tried to fix something. I reminded myself to come back and simply experience without trying to correct anything.
Then the DN phase came. Many images, lucid dreams, and, indeed, I found myself trying to fix something in them. When I noticed this, I would note it and return to awareness. I stayed in this back-and-forth process. Later, frustration arose, as well as a strong physical discomfort. Towards the end, there was frustration and boredom. That’s how it went.
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Good stuff! I will just say that Daniel Ingram didn't mention many times in his book the word "acceptance" of all experiences, for no reason. You are now applying Noting and Letting Go (of fixing the experience). Try and add to these two a third factor Acceptance of all experiences no matter what the feeling tone is; pleasant, neutral or unpleasant. Acceptance is like a very hospitable person letting all customers get into hs establishment. He welcomes them all in, does not divide them with aversion and desire or indifference, but with a compassionate all including acceptance, welcomes all guests, the ugly and the lovely. These guests come and go by themselves anyway.

+1

I thought I would already be practicing this broader acceptance. I'll set this resolution at the beginning and see how it goes.
Thanks Dusko

I did one hour and five minutes. I noticed a lot of discomfort, uneasiness, daydreams, a desire to correct, to change position, frustration, and boredom. However, today I realized that I haven't been doing something important for a while: observing the sensations of the body. So, at the end of the session, I started paying more attention to them, and this helped me be more present with simpler things. I was noticing a lot of mental states and mental objects but had forgotten about bodily sensations. This shift helped, and I will try to focus more on bodily sensations in the coming days.
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Today, I meditated for 50 minutes. I’m not at home; I’m at my mother-in-law’s house, on vacation with my family. The routine has changed a bit, so it wasn’t possible to practice for longer. I started with a heightened awareness of observing my thoughts. At first, I noticed thoughts of worry, wanting control, and being mentally occupied with things I needed to do. I decided to let all of that go.
As a result, I quickly entered a phase of relaxation and absence of control. I didn’t want to have control; I wanted to feel vulnerable. I was very open to this vulnerability, accepting any type of sensation, with a very clear purpose of learning from it. Because of this, the Dark Night wasn’t deep today; it was mild. I observed a lot of confusion, but I let it go. There were daydreams, but no lucid dreams. I remained very aware, frequently noticing thoughts like, “So, what do I need to do now?” – but then I realized I didn’t need to do anything, just observe and note.
Additionally, I paid a lot of attention to bodily sensations. I spent good moments just observing these sensations, feeling a simple pleasure in being present and aware. I experienced genuine gratitude for being there, attentive, observing my body’s sensations. In the final ten minutes, the Dark Night had already passed, and I was in a state of tranquility and bliss. However, I had to end the session at that point.
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I had an appointment last night, went to bed late, and didn’t get up to meditate.
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Today, I meditated for an hour. I’m still at my mother-in-law’s house, after two days without meditating. During the session, I went through, as usual, a phase of clarity, followed by a phase of lack of control, where I experienced many daydreams, fantasies, and lucid dreams. I noticed attempts to correct, a desire for control, as well as doubts about whether I was practicing correctly. I returned to awareness several times, but the doubts and confusion persisted (similar to Tarin's account of the final stage of the Dark Night).
​​​​​​​

I meditated for an hour and ten minutes after two days without practice. I started with a strong desire to be present and enjoy the moment. It felt very pleasant to just do nothing because, during those two days, I had been eating, drinking, enjoying time with family, indulging in worldly pleasures. It was so good to simply be present, doing nothing, just enjoying the bliss of that initial phase, the phase of control. It was pleasurable.
Then came the phase of lack of control, where I started having daydreams, fantasies, lucid dreams, and moments of doubt. Doubts about how to practice. I remembered Tarin. I had a broad awareness. Then I noted. Then I let go, did nothing, just let it be. I observed discomforts in the body, the jolts. I remembered to let the teacher teach. I remembered to accept broadly, to be hospitable to any sensation, any mental state. I noted the confusion. That’s how it was.
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Out of curiosity, does sitting for 30 minutes, walking meditation for 10 minutes, then sitting for 15 minutes sound interesting at all?

Yes, Shargrol. I’ve done this in the past. I’ll try it for a while and we’ll see the result. Thank you!

I have a question. The total sum of your proposal adds up to 55 minutes. The final 15 minutes sitting can turn into 20, 30, or more, right?

For sure. But I don't advise sitting longer if it means that things start getting stale. My hunch is that you might be in a sense "wiring in" your standard pattern, and so by switching it up and not pushing too long, it might bring a new freshness into your practice 

Interesting! Ok, Shargrol. Thanks!

I meditated for an hour. I woke up feeling heavy with sleep, got up somewhat reluctantly, even though I went to bed at the right time. I spent the first 30 minutes sitting, noticing a lot of that underlying drowsiness, but I managed to keep it under control and stay attentive.
During this time, I noticed a lot of noise around me, as I’m still at my mother-in-law’s house. She got up to wash the dishes, and I spent some time listening to and noting the sound. I also observed daydreams, bodily sensations, and the upright position of my spine.
After 30 minutes, I did another 10 minutes walking. While walking, I noticed the movements of my steps – left, right, turning, standing still, and then back to left and right. I continued noting daydreams and hearing the sound of the dishes being washed.
Finally, I sat down again for another 20 minutes. During this last part, there weren’t many changes. I remained in control of what I was noting, like daydreams, which at times seemed somewhat fantastical, somewhat like the lucid dreams I usually have. However, they were lighter, so I classify them as fantasies – a type of more imaginative and out-of-control thought. And that was it.
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 For what it's worth, I want to attempt to write about the vastness yet limited nature of the Equanimity Nana, just to give you some ideas for experimentation...

Back in the old days of DhO, there was a conversation with Daniel, Kenneth, Hokai, and Tarin about the difference between "doing it" and "getting it done". It was mostly confusing at first, but eventually they stumbled on a shared understanding in how they were talking about it. When they were saying "doing it", they were talking about people who have a daily practice. When they were saying "getting it done", they were talking about people who got stream entry and beyond. Doing it meant just sort of showing up for practice, getting it done meant really digging into practice. 

Kenneth Folk had the attitude that if you had him as a teacher, you would get stream entry. He described the situation as similar to his old piano teacher who's students all qualified to go to a particular local competition. They all got good enough to go qualify for the competiton because they had an expectation that they would get good enough to qualify for the competition and so they did. They didn't necessarily win more than other students, it's just that their standards were on average higher than other students. 

Sometimes the difference between doing it and getting it done is a unrealistic and almost transcendent belief.  I always compare it to the Harry Potter Prisoner of Azkaban sub-plot where he is saved in one scene by a powerful wizard casting the patronus spell and then goes back in time and sees that it was actually his future self casting the spell -- in fact he needs to get it done right now and he knows he can because he has already done it!

In the Magickal traditions, there is sometimes a calling on your future magickal self to guide you right now to the knowledge and conversation with the holy guardian angel -- and since this future magickal self has already done it and knows you it is the perfect guide. 

Hmm, I guess I'm talking about faith here. 

A more "logical" approach would be to look back on practice and compare it to the maps. If your practices has been consistent with the progress of insight maps... is there some reason to doubt the Equanimity, Conformity, Change of Linage, and Path nanas? 

I'm saying all of this to both induce a feeling and to hint at a direction.

The feeling is one of possibility, which you already have if you have practiced your way to equanimity. Don't lose that feeling. If you find yourself losing it and practice becomes just "doing it", then get creative and find something that has a spark. 

The direction is one of "being pulled beyond", which you have already sensed as practice has taken you beyond where you were when you started. There is no way you could have "figured out" how to go through the nanas, but yet somehow you went through them. This sort of thing continues to happen when you are "getting it done" in equanimity. There is lots of stuff to be equanimous with in EQ, perhaps even endless little things you could get used to experiencing -- but that's not really the point. At a certain point, EQ becomes meta-EQ: you become equanimous even with not being equanimous and it points beyond.

You kinda understand that EQ isn't about just being relaxed and sitting like a lump no matter what arises. That's kind of the trap in boring vanilla western psychological meditation - it keeps the subject and object framework solidly in place and says "you the subject needs to train yourself to be equanimous with the objects of your experience". The unsaid belief underneath it all is "all you can do is try to be a perfect passive "reciever" of experience... and perfection is probably impossible so just keep trying and do your best and at least life will get a little better." There are many people who have a sitting practice that never goes beyond this, which is completely fine, unless they are actually truly seeking something more.

These people need to be pointed right back to this assumption about subject and object. How do we know what is subject and what is object? Don't they both seem to arise within the mind? Don't they seem to have the same mind-stuff essence when you look at experience itself? How is what is seen different from the looking? How is breathing different from the breath sensations? What is the actual subject that seems to be beyond the object? What is the difference between the meditator and what is being meditated? What is the difference between the experience and the experiencer?

All of this points the person back to the nature of experience itself right as it arises. How do we interpret things right at the point of arising? How does the assumption that subject is over here and object over there created? Now obviously, I can't explain it. Verbal explainations happen waaaaay afterwards in time. The point is to get INTIMATE with experience itself. 

You could say Intimacy is prior to subject and object, prior to cause and effect, prior to time itself, too. Indescribable, really.

Equanimity is vast because some days intimacy just won't happen and if you try to force it you're a rapist. So we need to respect the reality of the sit. Some days we intellectualize intimacy and it sorta feels right but we know its wrong. It's sort of like saying "I love you" and it's true, but it isn't being felt in the moment. We kinda have to become stupid, really, to become intimate with experience. It's just going back to loving not the idea of meditation but loving the actual experience of being a human on the cushion. Wow, this is what living is! I rarely get to connect with the simplicity and deepness of being alive. And it's kinda stupid because we have to let go of intellectualism and let the mind get juicy and kinda magical... And it's kinda stupid because we have to let go of the juiciness otherwise it just turns into an A&P experience all over again... And it's kinda stupid because there will be near misses and that can become frustrating... We have to stupidly and stubbornly realize that every near miss isn't a failure, it means were getting closer... 

So for EQ practice, there is a certain amount of naive beginners mind combined with an experienced meditator's faith. We have to be playful and intimate in our practice and keep it fresh like a beginner. And we need to "know" that will get there with the confidence of an experienced meditator. 

We also have to own our own practice and not care about being a good meditator or a good practice logger. It's fine to go silent on DhO and just practice. It's fine to play around with your practice schedule, doing more or less, trying different techniques, adding in prayer or metta, all this stuff. 

No one can make stream entry happen and it's really the vast Equanimity nana (and the dark night) where all the transformation occurs so there is no rush. But it's important to be clear about your intention for your practice. What are you inspired to do? Do you feel like now is the time for "doing it"? Or is it time for "getting it done"? 

Can you feel the pull of a future version of yourself that has already got it done? Does that pull give you a hint about how you should practice?

Good practice can feel a bit like falling in love with yourself and your practice and oddly feeling connected with all beings, here on earth and throughout the cosmos, who must also be in love with their own living. Metta becomes very easy when we connect with ourself. In a sense, all beings are within us and we need to make peace will all beings otherwise we'll never find our own peace.

May I be calm and at ease
May I be healthy and whole
​​​​​​​May I be safe and free from all forms of danger
May I bravely experience this moment as it is
May I wisely see the truth of my reactive patterns
May I awaken 
May I be free from suffering 
May I be happy

May all beings be calm and at ease
May all beings be healthy and whole
​​​​​​​May all beings be safe and free from all forms of danger
May all beings bravely experience this moment as it is
May all beings wisely see the truth of their reactive patterns
May all beings awaken 
May all beings be free from suffering 
May all beings be happy

Obviously all of this is just words on the page and I have no idea what might be helpful or not. Take anything that is helpful and throw away all the rest and definitely throw this all away if it just makes things more confusing. That's the hard thing -- it's hard for me to know what to say and when to just shut up!

It's a paradox: the equanimity nana is vast, but beyond is closer than close, and intimacy with experience itself is the door.

Best wishes for your practice!!



  

​​​​​​​This was a conversation that was recorded at Daniel Ingram's Hurricane Ranch circa 2008 and remains available (for free) in three parts on SoundCloud. A transcript of the conversation is also available on DhO.

Looks like this one is the DhO transcript:

​​​​​​​Hurricane Ranch Discussion, February 2009 (Transcript) - Discussion - www.dharmaoverground.org

I had a mix of feelings here! I don't even know how to respond, so it's better to stay silent. But I have no doubt that I'm on the right path. Especially with the attention and dedication you've shown here over time, and particularly in a response like this one.

​​​​​​​Thank you so much, Shargrol. I have no words to express my gratitude for what you all do here for me and other seekers ("doing it").

I forgot to mention that I understood the main message. Thank you!

True, that.

I posted that first link because it credits the person who posted the transcript (DhO member apperception), gives some nice background, and includes the actual transcript link.

I meditated for an hour. I started by sparking curiosity, asking myself: who is meditating?Imagining and wanting to understand what the third eye might be, as I think I’ve experienced something like that before. This intrigued me. It sparked curiosity and created a playful way of meditating. So, I started lightly, with a lot of attention and curiosity, wanting to investigate.Several times, I experienced pure awareness, a central point observing everything that was happening. At times, it seemed like I could see this greater awareness observing the awareness itself, watching the tension and noticing where it would go, how it shifted from one point to another. All of this with great neutrality and a sense of bliss. I knew 30 minutes had passed, but I wanted to stay there because it felt so good.
After those 30 minutes, I did about 10 minutes of walking meditation, also maintaining curiosity. I observed and tried to notice when the “self” felt stronger or weaker, and when everything seemed unified, like it was all one experience.
After that, I sat down again. Just 10 seconds after sitting, my son came into the room and wanted to play. Even so, it didn’t shake me; I kept meditating, maintaining curiosity and investigation. It was a very interesting experience.
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Now that I see there was a mistake at the beginning of my report. The correct is: asking myself: who is meditating?

I meditated for an hour. I started by setting the intention to let the meditation flow. I used this reflection with curiosity, to sharpen the mind and investigate. In the first 35 minutes, the pace of events increased, and I had to stop noting and just observe. I could see the vibration of things. There was a strong interest in simply observing, investigating, and noticing whether or not I was letting things flow. Am I interfering? This sharpened the mind.
Around 30 minutes in, I knew I would need to get up to do walking meditation, but I didn’t want to because it was so productive. Observing the vibration was fascinating. I was synchronized with what was happening, just observing with broad awareness. So, I decided not to get up and to continue. However, around 35 minutes, things started to feel solid, and I could no longer spark curiosity. Some lucid dreams appeared, but I was conscious and could note and perceive them. Since I had already decided not to get up, I continued. I told myself: now I won’t get up; I’ll stay here.
Around 50 minutes, that solidity faded, and I began to notice a calmness. It didn’t seem like much was happening. I observed and didn’t see the same dynamism that was present around 30 minutes. I tried to understand and figure out where that fit in the progress of Insight. I had a strong desire to try to comprehend what it was, but I stayed there, observing the calmness, the body sensations, the lack of thoughts, or just the occasional comments that arose. And that’s how I ended the session.
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Adding:

​​​​​​​I started by reflecting on the wrong view I had about meditation, thinking it should always be about dropping thoughts (there is still a trace of this wrong view). But when I read today about equanimity, it presented a different perspective, right? You have the monkey mind there, but you're in a position, a view, a consciousness that observes it without being affected by it, without rejecting it, without trying to fix it. This is a completely different approach from what I used to think meditation was about. That realization relaxed me a lot, and I let the meditation flow. I kept reminding myself of this, right? I was aware, observing it happen and letting it flow, without interfering, without stepping in. So, I stepped aside and let it happen. This was very important for the productivity I mentioned.

Today I meditated for 50 minutes: 30 sitting, 10 walking, and another 10 sitting. Overall, the experience was solid.
​​​​​​​

When you say solid do you mean permanent? 

I meditated for 40 minutes. I started with a feeling of "get things done". This gave me a great sense of lightness. I managed to "step aside" and gently embrace whatever arose, without wanting anything in return. The first 30 minutes were very productive. The last 10 minutes, however, felt out of control. I had to finish the meditation because, for my wife's birthday, I'm planning to surprise her.
​​​​​​​

When I'm not seeing things vibrate.
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(For what it's worth, I kinda like your shorter reports )

I meditated for fifty-five minutes. I have been doing walking meditation for thirty minutes. Today, I started by trying to explore that feeling of "get things done." Overall, the session was neutral. At the end, I tried to activate curiosity to investigate, but it didn’t work very well.
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I did an hour and five minutes. After ten minutes of walking, I started to experience low equanimity. I think it was low equanimity because there was a sense of normalcy, of neutrality, with nothing happening. But in the background, there was an attempt to adjust something or to do something. I tried to simply do nothing and kept trying to do that. In other words, I was still trying to do something instead of just "letting things be."

I meditated for fifty minutes today. I started by watching a talk by the Brazilian forest monk, where he spoke about the Third Noble Truth, the cessation of suffering. In this context, my goal was to try to observe the cessation of suffering or identify moments when I was trying to do something that caused suffering—in other words, to notice the desire to do something. Yesterday, it became very clear to me that I wasn’t letting things simply happen because I wanted to do something even when there was no need. It was just about enjoying the moment. I realized that I was interfering, and so I wanted to observe the moments when I was trying to interfere or make things happen.
In this sense, I gained the enthusiasm to observe when I wasn’t interfering, noticing moments of cessation of suffering. During the meditation, I realized that, in the phase of control, I was making many internal comments. I felt excited watching things unfold, and even while commenting, I noticed that it didn’t interfere with my awareness. I had concentration, grounding, and awareness of both what I was noting and the fact that I was commenting. These comments didn’t throw me off balance.
This realization brought me great confidence to continue. It was an important insight because, in the past, when I made mental comments, I thought I was doing something wrong and that it was harming my meditation. But that wasn’t the case. I realized that the comments actually helped deepen investigation and wisdom.
In moments when confusion seemed to want to arise, I simply let it happen without creating suffering or feeling bothered, and this caused the confusion to pass quickly. There were also moments of a more “dim” or unclear awareness, but I noticed and acknowledged it, letting it be. I didn’t cling to it, and those moments also passed.
In the last 15 minutes, I experienced a moment of absorption with a very clear awareness that I was present. Internal comments decreased significantly, and I was able to simply enjoy bodily sensations. It was a moment of great peace and, honestly, a wonderful experience.
​​​​​​​

I meditated for 55 minutes. I reached a monotonous moment, with a bit of boredom. Sometimes I was able to enjoy the moment, other times not.
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Today I meditated for 55 minutes. I returned to practicing at home, in my usual environment. I woke up very early, at my usual time, since at my mother-in-law's house I was waking up later. Due to this readjustment to the schedule, I felt very drowsy during the session. Additionally, I experienced discomfort in my body because of the position, as I returned to using my meditation cushion, which is different from the one I used there.

I meditated for 55 minutes. After 30 minutes, I walked for 10 minutes, and during this period, I noticed I was in that state where it feels like nothing is happening. I observed the sensations in the body and watched the mind, but it seemed like nothing was really occurring. Then, I noticed that feeling of missing something, identified it, and noted it, trying just to be and "get out of the way."
Afterward, I returned to sitting, and as I sat, I noticed the mind was uninterested and lacked curiosity. I tried to stimulate curiosity, but without success. I reflected on stopping meditation and getting out of the way.
​​​​​​​

I meditated for 55 minutes today and set out to observe the mind shifting into boredom, something that usually happens around the 30-minute mark but occurred around the 25th minute today. I noticed when it started losing interest, becoming bored, and then I began investigating by asking questions: What am I feeling? Who is feeling this? Is there any resistance? What is the experience of boredom?
These investigations and questions reignited interest, activated the investigative mode, and because of that, I didn’t need to get up to do walking meditation. The practice became interesting again. Later, boredom and monotony returned, and I would ask questions again to stimulate curiosity. It worked.
At times, when I felt confused, I couldn’t investigate. In those moments, I simply stayed calm, reminding myself that practice is a long-term journey.
It was very interesting to realize that it’s possible to stimulate curiosity and investigation, and that boredom and monotony also pass.
​​​​​​​

I meditated for 55 minutes. Almost everything happened during today's session. It's worth noting that I remembered to approach things with lightness and allow myself to experience whatever needed to be experienced. Remembering that meditation is a process of purification, I know I will always go through moments of difficulty to learn and cleanse what is still impure. This brings me great motivation.
​​​​​​​

I meditated for 55 minutes. I did the entire session sitting. My objective was to observe thoughts and their types. After 30 minutes, I noticed many random, meaningless daydreams. I entered a state of semi-consciousness but also noticed many practice-related thoughts.
​​​​​​​

"but also noticed many practice-related thoughts."

​​​​​​​Nice  

I meditated for 55 minutes, starting by reflecting on how much progress I’ve made in my practice and how much gratitude I feel for it. This generated faith that I can continue. If I’ve made it this far by letting go, I can go even further. With gratitude and faith, I moved forward. I experienced lightness at certain moments, but not always. There were no new insights.

​​​​​​​Important: I noticed many thoughts about the practice and felt the weight of those thoughts, but then I saw them fade away, allowing a sense of lightness to settle in.

I wonder if this will help...

When you are hearing the "practice thoughts", allow the thoughts to be as they are but inquire "what is the mind beyond the thoughts?"

This is just to give your investigation a direction, not for answering with words.

"These practice thoughts are arising again, and they seem like "my" thoughts but they also seem to arise on their own like a radio station that I can listen to. Without changing anything, as I listen to this radio station, what is the mind beyond these thoughts?"

I will try going two weeks or more without posting my logs. Or I will only post if I truly experience something new. My goal is to bring more lightness to the practice. I still feel a heavy sense of duty, commitment, and the need to progress lingering in the background. Maybe not logging every time will help with that. I'll give it a try and let you know later. I will continue to maintain my daily practice, as I have always done since 2018. See you soon.
​​​​​​​

Ok Shargrol. I'll try and tell you later. Thank you very much!

Good idea, definitely worth testing. (I did not have a public daily log, it would have made me feel too self-conscious! )

I agree! Good idea! I also had no log during the pre stream entry months of meditation. I would only check in with my teacher once a month to report about the major shifts or mind states that might have happened! 

Best wishes Baros! 

Thanks @shargrol and @che.

I spent a week with my family and my wife’s family at the beach on vacation. I managed to meditate only one day. I’m returning today.
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