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Any thoughts on the relationships between integration of the perceptual field and n-back training?

For those unfamiliar, n-back tasks are a measure of working memory. You hold and constantly update a sequence of positions, sounds, colors, shapes, or numbers in your head. You also push a button when the newest entry to the sequence matches the item which is n positions back (n is a number). People often start around 2-3 (remembering and updating 2-3 items), and typically plateau around 4-5 without extensive practice.

In dual n-back, you do this simultaneously with two sensory modes, typically position and audio.

This website will give you a deeper explanation, and you can also practice n-back tests here as well: https://brainscale.net/app/dual-n-back/how-to-play

In quad n-back tasks, you do this for four sensory modalities at once, such as position, audio, color, and shape.

People who practice quad n-back anecodtally report that it increases how much of reality you experience (or at least remember) at once. 

Interestingly, I've noticed people on this forum report similar things from reaching various paths (read the recently bumped Dream Walker Framework of Awareness the other day).

I'm not saying that quad n-back will give you paths, but it's definitely involves concentration and hyperawareness. You pretty much have to be in a flow state to perform well at quad n-back, as far as I can tell!

A few questions I've had bouncing around my head recently:

Do you think reaching 3rd path would make quad n-back easier?

Do you think practicing quad n-back would make paths easier?

Do you think quad n-back could be used to stablize or otherwise strengthen a path?

Would additional or different sensory modalities make n-back training better for these purposes?

Do you have any other musings on the relationships between quad n-back and meditation?

Do you think there could be similar tasks or exercises worth considering?

Thanks!

Hmm, so I think the question is really, 'how is memory related to enlightenment', is that correct?

To put it another way, "will doing exercizes to increase one's ability to memorize make it easier for one to progress along the 4 path model?"



I think a similar question would be, 'how is intelligence related to enlightenment'.

Does someone with a higher IQ have a better chance of becoming enlightened?  
Hard to answer because intelligence can both help and hinder progress.
I think the same is likely true of 'memory'.


Something tells me this is one of those questions that can really only be answered by gathering and reporting on data.  Individual experience will probably differ from person to person.

Is the question, "How is memory related to enlightenment?" 

Kind of, but I'm talking about a specific type of memory which I feel is very relevant to meditation. I'm also asking about the relationships more broadly. Does enlightenment improve your ability to do this specific mental task? Does this specific mental task help with enlightenment? What are the overlaps in the perceptual changes both induce?

Being good at n-back means you're good at constantly updating what is in your short term perceptual memory without breaking focus.

In a sense, it's almost like noting, but only for very specific sensory stimuli. Then, when you can remember longer sequences, you increase the window of time for which the noted phenomena can be perceived.

Doing n-back 5 days a week since the start of October has seemed to improve my ease of meditation, with notably increased brilliance of kasina or skygazing type techniques when I introduced color and shape components to my n-back training. Purely anecdote though. 

It'd be awesome to get proper studies done, but I do feel that we can ascertain if it is reasonable for increases in this specific type of memory to improve certain types of meditation skills.

Failing that, it'd be interesting if people who have hit various paths tried out quad n-back and shared their experience with it, even if scores aren't shared for a variety of reasons. That's the closest I think we'll get to a study!

 ​​​​​​​ Start a log and describe your experience and practice!
I'm sure there's some correlation between memory and concentration practice.

I tried the n-back link, didn't work so I gave up, and then i had to get back to my work  

Sorry my last post got cut short.  I have been a little bit all over the place today.

You're absolutely right that there is very little data out there, probably 'no' data for for the type of integration you are asking about, since it is very specific.  From what you describe though, I could certainly see how n-back could help with concentration.

I probably wouldn't be very good at it, but I'll try to give it a shot some time and let you know.

My two cents would be this: i think best bet is to start with recording your own experience (like, in a log) - if you are curious about this integration between n-back exercises and certain concentration practice, list out what steps you took before your meditation, what happened during the meditation, and how does the n-back effect your ability to do various concentration practices.  In other words, be your own guinea pig!  It sounds cool though!  

An excelent suggestion

Hmm... weird the link doesn't work, but if you google n-back you'll find a bunch of free websites and a couple phone apps. I like brainscale because it lets you customize a lot, and also tracks your training for you. Isn't 100% free for all features though.

...

You know, I've considered starting a log here, but I must admit that secrecy works well for my practice, especially the magickal side of things. Even with meditation, it's not uncommon for someone to speak of an attainment only for it to immediately shift into something else.

The more detail I go into with others, the more it seems to interfere. I make heavy use of classical conditioning to keep ritual mental processes precise in their psychological connections.

That's another advantage for making my own jargon. I rarely encounter vaibbahk outside ritual context. Even then it tends to be a brief line of small talk with a conlanger, and small talk just uses "vowel words," not needing root words of mystic import.

My compromise on a log is actually these books I write. It's a way to share incredible detail about my practice without discussing exactly what I'm doing, since the published rituals are all multipurpose.

I guess I could release a year long n-back and meditation log or something, but even that performativity would affect things, and I don't think there's much I could write about n-back that would actually help people without getting funding for research. As with physical exercise, you just do it consistently and you see improvements. 

Example:

[Day 63: Did corsi block tapping, dual, and quad n-back this morning. My scores fluctuated 10% from what they have been the last week. 
When doing open total sensory reception, I can pick up on more at once, since I've trained the various aspects of auditory and visual short term memory to all operate semi-independently and in tandem with more efficiency. Body scans and noting are faster than 2 weeks ago.
I am now slightly better than last month at complex boardgames, and keeping tracking of more enemies/projectiles in videogames, since both involve colored shapes and sounds/names moving around a designated space. ]

Without going into detail regarding what my present practices are, I would just be repeating that entry over and over, with slightly higher scores. 

If anything cool happened, I'd rather cultivate that into something more lasting, something more useful than a log, like a new type of ritual which makes it easier for myself and others to engage in whatever was cool. 

Having solidified that ritual format into a grimoire, also helps mitigate the impact of breaking silence!