Jhana long term

olof Sundberg, modified 1 Month ago at 12/7/24 3:31 PM
Created 1 Month ago at 12/7/24 3:31 PM

Jhana long term

Posts: 8 Join Date: 3/12/22 Recent Posts
One time five years ago - while doing pretty intense meditation every day - I stumbled in to the 5th Jhana. It was pretty amazing. And I keep (clinging?) to the sense that maybe these teaching can make meditation more fun. Like an everyday superpower. Or a free harmless drug. All the Vipasana style teachers basically seem to say that Jhanas are a waste of time. I'd like to hear opinions on this. Are there practitioners out there who just never get tired of the Jhanas? Like the masters out there. I wonder if they still enjoy the Jhanas. Or if they are just boring to them now.  
Martin, modified 1 Month ago at 12/7/24 3:54 PM
Created 1 Month ago at 12/7/24 3:54 PM

RE: Jhana long term

Posts: 1064 Join Date: 4/25/20 Recent Posts
I have been practicing the jhanas basically every day for the past 5 years. I cannot see getting tired of the practice any more than a person might get tired of exercise, or reading, or music. (To be clear, I don't mean to compare the jhanas to those things, other than as things that people never tire of.)

As for the "boring" thing, for me, that would be a contradiction in terms. Every instance of jhana has an element of surprise. It is not something that you do, but something that happens, and the joy that arises as it happens is, like all joy, surprising. If it's not surprising, it's not joy. It's not possible to have boring joy. No boring experiences can be classified as jhana. 

I should mention that, although jhana can, indeed, be like a free harmless drug, that is not the primary benefit. (Or at least, at my level, with much still left to learn, it is not the primary benefit.) For me, the capacity for insight that it provides is the primary benefit. Think of a pair of excellent eyeglasses. You put them on and they feel comfortable. They might also look great. More importantly, they get rid of that tension headache, which feels great! But none of those things are the primary benefit of glasses. The primary benefit is being able to see. 
Martin, modified 1 Month ago at 12/7/24 3:58 PM
Created 1 Month ago at 12/7/24 3:58 PM

RE: Jhana long term

Posts: 1064 Join Date: 4/25/20 Recent Posts
By the way, several years before I had even heard of the jhanas, I stumbled into the fifth jhana, after which I spent a long time without knowing how to get back. 
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Bahiya Baby, modified 1 Month ago at 12/7/24 4:25 PM
Created 1 Month ago at 12/7/24 4:25 PM

RE: Jhana long term

Posts: 934 Join Date: 5/26/23 Recent Posts
Just fyi I don't know of any vipassana style teachers who think jhanas are a waste of time. I certainly don't know any who don't regularly experience jhanas. 
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Jim Smith, modified 1 Month ago at 12/7/24 7:17 PM
Created 1 Month ago at 12/7/24 7:17 PM

RE: Jhana long term

Posts: 1830 Join Date: 1/17/15 Recent Posts
The Buddha taught the jhanas. They are just natural stages that occur when you cultivate samatha. They are not something to chase after or avoid. The Buddha taught to cultivate samatha and vipassana as two qualities of mind not as different types of meditation techniques. Typically in a balanced practice, during a meditation session, one will first quiet the mind/body by cultivating samatha, and then move on to cultivating vipassana.

The sutra on mindfulness of breathing, where the Buddha taught meditation, examplifies this: anapanasati sutta. The first 12 steps are about cultivating samatha, the last four steps are about cultivating vipassana.

The only caveat I would add is not to neglect cultivating vipassana because samatha is so pleasurable.

I wrote this previously in another thread:

https://www.dharmaoverground.org/discussion/-/message_boards/message/24681133


I think the jhanas are more wholesome than recreational drugs so I would recommend people who like to use drugs to try jhanas.

Too much bliss shows one that happiness is not all it's cracked up to be. Sukkha (tranquil happiness) is nicer than Piti (intense rapture).  When you can have as much happiness as you want, you stop craving it. It's the law of supply and demand, if there is an overabundance of something, its perceived value goes down.

You can learn to control the intensity and bring a nice level of sukkha into daily life much of the time. I think a lot of socialization that children undergo as they mature causes us to suppress happiness to the point were we forget how to be happy. Practicing the jhanas helps us remember how to be happy.

The Jhanas give you lessons in letting go of attachment to pleasant feelings. In fact, attachment to pleasant feelings is an obstacle to experiencing the jhanas, letting go of that attachment makes it easier to produce the jhanas.

The jhanas show you that emotions are flexible. Emotions are not truth, they are not reality, they are not an inevitable consequence of "situations". Situations are not the problem, the problem is how we react to the situation. This doesn't mean we ignore the situation it means we can respond to situations through compassion and reason rather than out of control emotions.

The jhanas provide a pleasant counterbalance to the unpleasant emotions that my arise from vipassana.

The jhanas point out the possibility that there could be an even better way of experiencing reality, one without any illusions, pleasant or unpleasant, and they encourage one to seek this clear liberated mind. It's nicer than pleasure.

https://ncu9nc.blogspot.com/2020/10/a-quick-guide-to-producing-bliss-with.html


Since that time I have come to view each jhana as a different angle on non-attachment. Practicing them helps you to internalize non-attachment and make it part of your natural world view.

Also, some people find the jhanas are an easier way to experience cessation/fruition.
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Jim Smith, modified 1 Month ago at 12/8/24 4:28 AM
Created 1 Month ago at 12/8/24 1:02 AM

RE: Jhana long term

Posts: 1830 Join Date: 1/17/15 Recent Posts
The Buddha was very clear that the jhanas were not to be avoided simply because they are pleasant:


https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.036.than.html
"I thought: 'I recall once, when my father the Sakyan was working, and I was sitting in the cool shade of a rose-apple tree, then — quite secluded from sensuality, secluded from unskillful mental qualities — I entered & remained in the first jhana: rapture & pleasure born from seclusion, accompanied by directed thought & evaluation. Could that be the path to Awakening?' Then following on that memory came the realization: 'That is the path to Awakening.' I thought: 'So why am I afraid of that pleasure that has nothing to do with sensuality, nothing to do with unskillful mental qualities?' I thought: 'I am no longer afraid of that pleasure that has nothing to do with sensuality, nothing to do with unskillful mental qualities,...

... quite secluded from sensuality, secluded from unskillful mental qualities, I entered & remained in the first jhana: rapture & pleasure born from seclusion, accompanied by directed thought & evaluation. But the pleasant feeling that arose in this way did not invade my mind or remain. With the stilling of directed thoughts & evaluations, I entered & remained in the second jhana: rapture & pleasure born of concentration, unification of awareness free from directed thought & evaluation — internal assurance. But the pleasant feeling that arose in this way did not invade my mind or remain. With the fading of rapture I remained equanimous, mindful, & alert, and sensed pleasure with the body. I entered & remained in the third jhana, of which the noble ones declare, 'Equanimous & mindful, he has a pleasant abiding.' But the pleasant feeling that arose in this way did not invade my mind or remain. With the abandoning of pleasure & pain — as with the earlier disappearance of elation & distress — I entered & remained in the fourth jhana: purity of equanimity & mindfulness, neither pleasure nor pain. But the pleasant feeling that arose in this way did not invade my mind or remain.