RE: Hello, sotapanna here. - Discussion
RE: Hello, sotapanna here.
Saavaka Bheka, modified 1 Month ago at 12/19/24 12:21 PM
Created 1 Month ago at 12/19/24 12:21 PM
Hello, sotapanna here.
Posts: 17 Join Date: 12/19/24 Recent Posts
Hello. I don't have anyone near to talk about this, so I decided to make a post here. I practice the Dhamma-Vinaya, or try my best to do that, with good results.
I'm not a teacher, and in my opinion personal experiences can be deceving if taken to be an objective truth, as in this will also work for you, but feel free to ask me anything, I will try to respond with the best of my ability. Keep in mind, take it with a grain of salt.
Also, yes, I like frogs (bheka means frog in Pali).
I'm not a teacher, and in my opinion personal experiences can be deceving if taken to be an objective truth, as in this will also work for you, but feel free to ask me anything, I will try to respond with the best of my ability. Keep in mind, take it with a grain of salt.
Also, yes, I like frogs (bheka means frog in Pali).
Robert L, modified 1 Month ago at 12/19/24 1:06 PM
Created 1 Month ago at 12/19/24 1:06 PM
RE: Hello, sotapanna here.
Posts: 103 Join Date: 2/10/19 Recent Posts
Hi Saavaka. I too like frogs. Are you a monk or lay person? Be prepared to go into exhaustive detail on your meditation practice, and the phenomonology associated with it.
![emoticon](https://www.dharmaoverground.org/o/classic-theme/images/emoticons/happy.gif)
Robert L, modified 1 Month ago at 12/19/24 1:07 PM
Created 1 Month ago at 12/19/24 1:07 PM
RE: Hello, sotapanna here.
Posts: 103 Join Date: 2/10/19 Recent PostsSaavaka Bheka, modified 1 Month ago at 12/19/24 1:09 PM
Created 1 Month ago at 12/19/24 1:08 PM
RE: Hello, sotapanna here.
Posts: 17 Join Date: 12/19/24 Recent Posts
Definition: acquired Right View, lower 3 fetters gone.
How do you know: confirmation with the definition, also radical changes in perspective that don't go away.
Was there a defining moment: I recall two.
How was it like: the first was an aha moment, the other I think the perception of reality did a click, on-off.
What is it like: you know what you need to do in order to achieve liberation. For example, right now my biggest problem is complacency.
Edit: put some lines inbetween.
How do you know: confirmation with the definition, also radical changes in perspective that don't go away.
Was there a defining moment: I recall two.
How was it like: the first was an aha moment, the other I think the perception of reality did a click, on-off.
What is it like: you know what you need to do in order to achieve liberation. For example, right now my biggest problem is complacency.
Edit: put some lines inbetween.
Saavaka Bheka, modified 1 Month ago at 12/19/24 1:19 PM
Created 1 Month ago at 12/19/24 1:19 PM
RE: Hello, sotapanna here.
Posts: 17 Join Date: 12/19/24 Recent Posts
Lay person. My practice is simple, I follow the gradual training as portrayed in MN 107. What works for me now is sense restraint, coupled with yoniso manasikara. I don't sit very much, this is the problem of complacency I was talking about.
Formal meditation I do is basically sit and do nothing, while applying yoniso manasikara. Sometimes I enter the first jhana, sometimes not, I must work on that.
Formal meditation I do is basically sit and do nothing, while applying yoniso manasikara. Sometimes I enter the first jhana, sometimes not, I must work on that.
Saavaka Bheka, modified 1 Month ago at 12/19/24 1:21 PM
Created 1 Month ago at 12/19/24 1:21 PM
RE: Hello, sotapanna here.
Posts: 17 Join Date: 12/19/24 Recent Posts
Replied that in other post, but for the sake of completion, aquired Right View, lower 3 fetters gone.
Bahiya Baby, modified 1 Month ago at 12/19/24 1:56 PM
Created 1 Month ago at 12/19/24 1:56 PM
RE: Hello, sotapanna here.
Posts: 934 Join Date: 5/26/23 Recent PostsRobert L, modified 1 Month ago at 12/19/24 2:36 PM
Created 1 Month ago at 12/19/24 2:36 PM
RE: Hello, sotapanna here.
Posts: 103 Join Date: 2/10/19 Recent Posts
I'm unfamiliar with the term yoniso manasikara, but I looked it up. Would it be equivalent to open awareness? I would also call it "just knowing", or rigpa.
Saavaka Bheka, modified 1 Month ago at 12/19/24 2:46 PM
Created 1 Month ago at 12/19/24 2:46 PM
RE: Hello, sotapanna here.
Posts: 17 Join Date: 12/19/24 Recent Posts
I'm not familiar with tibetan practices, maybe is the same, maybe not.
What I do is broaden the perspective of the attention to make known of what is giving sustent to an experience to happen, while simultaneously cognizing the experience. Pain requires a body, for example. Yoniso manasikara could be translated as attention to the womb of experience. The Buddha said this is what develops Right View, in MN 2 I think.
What I do is broaden the perspective of the attention to make known of what is giving sustent to an experience to happen, while simultaneously cognizing the experience. Pain requires a body, for example. Yoniso manasikara could be translated as attention to the womb of experience. The Buddha said this is what develops Right View, in MN 2 I think.
Robert L, modified 1 Month ago at 12/19/24 3:30 PM
Created 1 Month ago at 12/19/24 3:30 PM
RE: Hello, sotapanna here.
Posts: 103 Join Date: 2/10/19 Recent Posts
Are you studying within a distinct school under the tutelage of a teacher? I'm unfamiliar with the descriptors you are using and would like to find a commonality to our dharma language to facilitate understanding.
Saavaka Bheka, modified 1 Month ago at 12/19/24 3:39 PM
Created 1 Month ago at 12/19/24 3:39 PM
RE: Hello, sotapanna here.
Posts: 17 Join Date: 12/19/24 Recent Posts
No distinct school or teacher, just what is in the suttas. The interpretation of yoniso manasikara I use was made known to me by monks of Hillside Hermitage, although is the literal translation of the term from pali to english.
Robert L, modified 1 Month ago at 12/19/24 4:00 PM
Created 1 Month ago at 12/19/24 4:00 PM
RE: Hello, sotapanna here.
Posts: 103 Join Date: 2/10/19 Recent Posts
Thanks. I've read the middle discourses, but not until a year or two ago. I didn't understand the teachings until well into my path. It seems it would be tricky to develop a practice from personal interpretation of the suttas alone.
Saavaka Bheka, modified 1 Month ago at 12/19/24 4:11 PM
Created 1 Month ago at 12/19/24 4:11 PM
RE: Hello, sotapanna here.
Posts: 17 Join Date: 12/19/24 Recent Posts
Yes, definetly. This is what I'm doing now, not what I did before sotapatti, trying different methods and the likes. Regardless, Right View was acquired by sense restraint and yoniso manasikara, which is now mostly my practice.
J W, modified 1 Month ago at 12/19/24 4:29 PM
Created 1 Month ago at 12/19/24 4:29 PM
RE: Hello, sotapanna here.
Posts: 768 Join Date: 2/11/20 Recent Posts
Tell us about the third fetter, attachment to rites and rituals. What was your inspiration to post here and make a declaration about your attainment?
Saavaka Bheka, modified 1 Month ago at 12/19/24 4:39 PM
Created 1 Month ago at 12/19/24 4:39 PM
RE: Hello, sotapanna here.
Posts: 17 Join Date: 12/19/24 Recent Posts
There is no step by step method to achieve liberation, only causes and conditions, and actions that leads to those causes and conditions and other actions that don't.
As to why, I have no friends in Dhamma to talk about this, and I wanted to share my experience whith the practices I do, as I think they are conducive to awakening as it is displayed in the suttas. Why claim the attainment, idk, there is a board for that, so why not.
Also I was a little bored.
As to why, I have no friends in Dhamma to talk about this, and I wanted to share my experience whith the practices I do, as I think they are conducive to awakening as it is displayed in the suttas. Why claim the attainment, idk, there is a board for that, so why not.
Also I was a little bored.
Robert L, modified 1 Month ago at 12/19/24 5:56 PM
Created 1 Month ago at 12/19/24 5:56 PM
RE: Hello, sotapanna here.
Posts: 103 Join Date: 2/10/19 Recent PostsSaavaka Bheka, modified 1 Month ago at 12/19/24 6:15 PM
Created 1 Month ago at 12/19/24 6:15 PM
RE: Hello, sotapanna here.
Posts: 17 Join Date: 12/19/24 Recent PostsRobert L, modified 1 Month ago at 12/19/24 6:34 PM
Created 1 Month ago at 12/19/24 6:34 PM
RE: Hello, sotapanna here.
Posts: 103 Join Date: 2/10/19 Recent PostsJ W, modified 1 Month ago at 12/19/24 7:39 PM
Created 1 Month ago at 12/19/24 7:39 PM
RE: Hello, sotapanna here.
Posts: 768 Join Date: 2/11/20 Recent PostsSaavaka Bheka
"There is no step by step method to achieve liberation,"
Ok, then how did you achieve liberation, and how is that not a step by step method? Or have you achieved liberation?
"I wanted to share my experience whith the practices I do, as I think they are conducive to awakening as it is displayed in the suttas. "
"There is no step by step method to achieve liberation,"
Ok, then how did you achieve liberation, and how is that not a step by step method? Or have you achieved liberation?
"I wanted to share my experience whith the practices I do, as I think they are conducive to awakening as it is displayed in the suttas. "
Welcome!
John L, modified 1 Month ago at 12/19/24 9:30 PM
Created 1 Month ago at 12/19/24 8:53 PM
RE: Hello, sotapanna here.
Posts: 92 Join Date: 3/26/24 Recent Posts
Welcome! I'm always happy to see new members.
I've benefitted tremendously from keeping a practice log on here, so I invite you to do the same, if you feel like it. There's a scarcity of first-hand, detailed accounts of awakening; you'd be doing humanity a service by keeping some records.
Do you have any solutions to this in mind?
I've benefitted tremendously from keeping a practice log on here, so I invite you to do the same, if you feel like it. There's a scarcity of first-hand, detailed accounts of awakening; you'd be doing humanity a service by keeping some records.
Saavaka Bheka:
What is it like: you know what you need to do in order to achieve liberation. For example, right now my biggest problem is complacency.
Do you have any solutions to this in mind?
![emoticon](https://www.dharmaoverground.org/o/classic-theme/images/emoticons/happy.gif)
Saavaka Bheka, modified 1 Month ago at 12/20/24 3:23 AM
Created 1 Month ago at 12/20/24 3:23 AM
RE: Hello, sotapanna here.
Posts: 17 Join Date: 12/19/24 Recent Posts
I didn't achieve liberation, only Right View, for the moment. Why is not a step by step method is because you can't control progress, only cause it, and is very personal. The on-off click happened to me while I was coming home from work while talking to my girlfriend, for example. At least we where in a bus, so there was no danger.<br /><br />My experience is achieving sotapanna, and for now the 1st jhana, all in concordance with the suttas. Yoniso manasikara is what is translated as wise attention, but the naive translation as attention to the womb had made this happen. As I posted somewhere up, the broaden of attention to give perspective on the context of experience is truly a wonderful and effective practice.<br /><br />
Saavaka Bheka, modified 1 Month ago at 12/20/24 3:28 AM
Created 1 Month ago at 12/20/24 3:28 AM
RE: Hello, sotapanna here.
Posts: 17 Join Date: 12/19/24 Recent Posts
Yes, endure it and keep going, as better things are in the path. The Buddha speaked about lazyness and complacency for sotapannas, sakadagamis and anagamis in the suttas, I didn't know that was possible until it happened to me.
John L, modified 1 Month ago at 12/20/24 3:31 AM
Created 1 Month ago at 12/20/24 3:31 AM
RE: Hello, sotapanna here.
Posts: 92 Join Date: 3/26/24 Recent PostsSaavaka Bheka, modified 1 Month ago at 12/20/24 4:13 AM
Created 1 Month ago at 12/20/24 4:13 AM
RE: Hello, sotapanna here.
Posts: 17 Join Date: 12/19/24 Recent Posts
Yeah, just endure and keep going. One can regress progress if one doesn't keep doing the work. The mind is difficult to tame, but it can be possible, with patience and persistance.
Robert L, modified 1 Month ago at 12/20/24 7:09 AM
Created 1 Month ago at 12/20/24 7:09 AM
RE: Hello, sotapanna here.
Posts: 103 Join Date: 2/10/19 Recent Posts
When you say you achieved right view, what do you mean? Could you give your personal description of "right view", in your own words not quoting the suttas? When you say you achieved 1st Jhana after stream entry, I don't understand this. In my experience it is not necessary to be a stream enterer to work with the jhanas and after streamentry all the jhanas are available.
Saavaka Bheka, modified 1 Month ago at 12/20/24 7:21 AM
Created 1 Month ago at 12/20/24 7:21 AM
RE: Hello, sotapanna here.
Posts: 17 Join Date: 12/19/24 Recent Posts
Right View == Sotapatti.
It's like the allegory of the cave, you clearly know and see that the self view is constructed, and that you can stop what causes this concoction. Also one understands the suttas in a gut feeling way, which is nice.
The jhanas, as they are portrayed in the suttas, are the culmination of the eightfold path, and one's first taste of liberation. The sutta's jhanas can only happen when one has the right conditions, developed with Right View as a basis. Truly, any modern version of jhana just pales in comparison. This is why my mind resort to complacency, it really feels that something better just cannot be possible.
It's like the allegory of the cave, you clearly know and see that the self view is constructed, and that you can stop what causes this concoction. Also one understands the suttas in a gut feeling way, which is nice.
The jhanas, as they are portrayed in the suttas, are the culmination of the eightfold path, and one's first taste of liberation. The sutta's jhanas can only happen when one has the right conditions, developed with Right View as a basis. Truly, any modern version of jhana just pales in comparison. This is why my mind resort to complacency, it really feels that something better just cannot be possible.
Robert L, modified 29 Days ago at 12/20/24 9:21 AM
Created 29 Days ago at 12/20/24 9:21 AM
RE: Hello, sotapanna here.
Posts: 103 Join Date: 2/10/19 Recent Posts
The bliss/piti of first jhana is very pleasant but unsatisfying, letting go of the bliss will naturally lead you to the 2nd, and spontaneously dispel your complancency. I disagree that there is a "modern version of jhana" there is only depth of absorption, and the depth doesn't matter if the jhana, is seen through. Depth does not ultimately matter. It's only mind. Depth is thought, as is this discussion. None of it leads to awakening, as the mind is not awakened, you and I are not awakened, we have nothing to do with it. Awakening is an accident that might occur along the path, like tripping on a stone.
Papa Che Dusko, modified 29 Days ago at 12/20/24 10:12 AM
Created 29 Days ago at 12/20/24 10:12 AM
RE: Hello, sotapanna here.
Posts: 3309 Join Date: 3/1/20 Recent Posts
The "right view" of a Sotapanna is at best "all right-ish view".
Welcome to the DhO!
Best wishes!
![emoticon](https://www.dharmaoverground.org/o/classic-theme/images/emoticons/happy.gif)
Welcome to the DhO!
Best wishes!
Saavaka Bheka, modified 29 Days ago at 12/20/24 11:46 AM
Created 29 Days ago at 12/20/24 11:46 AM
RE: Hello, sotapanna here.
Posts: 17 Join Date: 12/19/24 Recent Posts
That jhana is an absoprtion is the modern take. I had practiced the modern take of the jhanas, they are not the same.
As to the right-ish view, I agree, I cannot teach others or have all the answers. That is why I said take everything I post with a pinch of salt.
As to the right-ish view, I agree, I cannot teach others or have all the answers. That is why I said take everything I post with a pinch of salt.