youngster looking for advice

mystic referee, modified 18 Days ago at 1/22/25 3:00 AM
Created 18 Days ago at 1/22/25 3:00 AM

youngster looking for advice

Posts: 4 Join Date: 1/21/25 Recent Posts
Hello friends,

I'm a 23-year-old medical student seeking advice on my meditation practice. I started getting interested in Buddhism and spirituality about two years ago, when I spent a summer backpacking in India. This experience opened my eyes a bit and I went back last summer and did a 10-day Goenka retreat. While I enjoyed the retreat, I didn't have a solid meditation practice beforehand, so I felt I didn't gain much in terms of insight or concentration skills.

This past semester, I've committed to a more serious meditation practice, dedicating 45 minutes daily to do TMI meditation. I believe I've been consistently operating at stages 4-5, although I've had to pause for the last few days due to exams. I'm about to start my internship year and while I do think it'll be possible to set aside 45min a day for practice, daily life will probably get a lot more hectic. I think it would be nice to have some specific goals, like entering first jhana or making progress on the insight territory. I just don't know if it's realistic and/or if I should change my practice (move to a different technique like noting or combine)?

While I'm seriously interested in this and motivated, I think I live a very "worldly" life and few of my friends are even mildly interested in this. It's a bit hard sometimes to have no one to talk with about this, so any advice, general remarks or even words of encouragement would be greatly appreciated.

Much, much metta
Adi Vader, modified 18 Days ago at 1/22/25 3:52 AM
Created 18 Days ago at 1/22/25 3:52 AM

RE: youngster looking for advice

Posts: 416 Join Date: 6/29/20 Recent Posts
Welcome mystic

The path of a yogi/meditator is a lonely path. We have to walk it alone. Friends on this do exist, and we can certainly seek companionship and advice. ... but we still have to walk it alone on our own steam.

TMI is a fantastic pedagogy. Your goals arent unrealistic, but these goals happen, you cannot 'do' them. What you can do is pick up TMI and in a very systematic way work diligently to the conclusion of the stage you are at and then move on to doing the exercises of the next stage.

Be process oriented, the results will take care of themselves.

Good luck.

​​​​​​​P.S. start a log, I think it will be beneficial
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Jure K, modified 18 Days ago at 1/22/25 3:57 AM
Created 18 Days ago at 1/22/25 3:57 AM

RE: youngster looking for advice

Posts: 503 Join Date: 9/8/20 Recent Posts
Hey dude and welcome! Dedicating 45min a day is great, I think consistency and commitment to practice is the most important thing to build on. Once you're committed to practice everyday, jhanas, insight and knowledge will come provided you're applying the techniques. Having goals to work towards is great but they can also become a great source of suffering so be aware of that. Enjoy the practice and the journey of self exploration, have fun!
shargrol, modified 17 Days ago at 1/22/25 5:17 AM
Created 17 Days ago at 1/22/25 5:17 AM

RE: youngster looking for advice

Posts: 2828 Join Date: 2/8/16 Recent Posts
 23 years old is a time for establishing the foundation for the rest of your life -- employment, relationships, physical health, and mental health. Keep adjusting your efforts to focus on strengthening whatever aspect seems weak for you right now. It's a balancing act.

Being "worldly" is fine, just be sane and mature. We need as many sane and mature people as we can get in this worldly space. emoticon

I think this needs to be said: meditation can really fuck up your life, so don't be naive about it. When we start opening up to our unconscious material, it can be very disruptive -- especially if your life is already challenging. 

Meditation practice can/should be like physical training -- a mostly daily practice at an intensity level that is sustainable in your actual life. Goals are great and important. The main thing I would emphasize is what you want to learn about your own mind through your practice. So rather than "first jhana" as a goal, a more personal goal would be "to notice the things that prevent relaxing in this moment". Rather than insight territory, it might be something psychological you want to explore (your anxieties, depressions, avoidance, old wounds, etc.).

In general, I would emphasize mental health in general and not necessarily meditation. If meditation does "fit", that's great... but despite all the modern "mindfulness" marketing, mediation is more for deconstructing identity and social roles after you have an identity and a social role. The problem these days is that people think meditation will fix everything. 

It's much better to fix things directly with methods designed for that particular problem, rather than meditate and hope meditation fixes it.

Hope these honest words are helpful.





 
mystic referee, modified 17 Days ago at 1/22/25 11:54 AM
Created 17 Days ago at 1/22/25 11:54 AM

RE: youngster looking for advice

Posts: 4 Join Date: 1/21/25 Recent Posts
Thanks all for the kind words and advice!

I've noticed myself good progression with tmi once I started re-reading some part of the instructions of the stage I'm at every day or two. Every time I'm stuck somewhere, there seems to be the right solution in there.

@shargol
What you said about meditation potentially messing up your life is something that I've thought about before. Do I need Dark Night stuff destabilizing my personal life right now? Probably not, especially since I wouldn't be able to express and talk about any of this to my parents etc. And yet meditation and the path keeps attracting me... Some part of me doesn't want to just live daily life thinking there's something "more", out there, without exploring it.

For now I guess I'll keep it with the daily 45min tmi sits and see how to balance it properly with daily life. Hopefully I can keep on progressing with my practice without becoming a total dharma weirdo in the eyes of my friends and family.

Metta
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Martin V, modified 17 Days ago at 1/22/25 12:41 PM
Created 17 Days ago at 1/22/25 12:41 PM

RE: youngster looking for advice

Posts: 1078 Join Date: 4/25/20 Recent Posts
That sounds like a good plan, especially if you stick with TMI, which is intended to build stability. It also has built-in goals.

For other goals, you might consider doing more of what you are doing right here, which is building contemplative connections. Working only by oneself, or only with online groups, it's possible to get lost in conceptual rabbit holes or to lean too far into mentally destabilizing practices. You might, for example, have a goal like: every year I will spend some time with a different sangha or congregation, or every six months I will read a contemplative book from tradition I have not read before. This will broaden your understanding and stabilize your development. In particular, as you will have already seen, face-to-face time with other meditators is very grounding. Meditation can transform life, so it is smart to do it thoughtfully, with a broad foundation, and with the help of those around you, just as you are doing now. 
Stranger_Loop Stranger_Loop, modified 17 Days ago at 1/22/25 3:07 PM
Created 17 Days ago at 1/22/25 3:07 PM

RE: youngster looking for advice

Posts: 80 Join Date: 3/17/23 Recent Posts
Sounds like a cool start emoticon.

A lot of people get stuck in TMI at some point (stage5/6 I think?) or get into POI territory without intending to. I assume you have read MCTB? Just so you would know what's happening.

You could just continue right now. You could also take a break and focus on studying just doing some mindfulness to feel good. You could try noting and noticing as much as possible during daily life which would probably get you into insight territory. Then be careful about frying yourself. This also depends on what type of person you are. Some people like me have a tendency to do stupid things and overdo some heroic prlactice while other people from my perspective don't even try. So being careful about frying yourself might be good advice or the opposite of what's useful (https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/03/24/should-you-reverse-any-advice-you-hear/). Take Shagrol's advice seriously about if being possible to fuck up your life with meditation. However, it can also safe your life. Or do both.
A year ago I told a friend, that she should be careful, because she might just decide to completely change her life if she started meditating (she had probably had streamentry already and seemed like a candidate to go ham on it). Now, she just went onto a retreat is considering quitting her PHD and studying theoretical physics or just focusing her life on meditation.
Some people have a harmless meditation journey. Some a beautiful one. Are you someone who if they try a new sport instantly injures themselves trying too hard?
Some people also have a life where they don't care much about the world. Renunciation comes natural to them. Some people are traumatized and should be really careful. But enlightenment might also be necessary for them to be able to face their trauma. It's not like deciding to become a doctor isn't a decision that can fuck up your life as well ;). Meditation at this level is a transformative experience (look up L.A. Paul transformative experiences). Your preferences and who you are will change doing it.

Random suggestions other people didn't mention:
* Getting a teacher or at least doing a practice journal here or on a discord (I can suggest one I am on, and someone else here has another discord but I don't want to say it without their permission) can be useful, .
* Doing retreats like you did can help a lot with progress.
* Taking psychedelics (LSD/shrooms/DMT (would first experiment with the others)) of course higher risk especially at higher doses. Someone called it trying to repair a clock with a sledgehammer. It also works though emoticon.
mystic referee, modified 16 Days ago at 1/23/25 2:26 PM
Created 16 Days ago at 1/23/25 2:26 PM

RE: youngster looking for advice

Posts: 4 Join Date: 1/21/25 Recent Posts
Thanks again for the comments

Using an online practice log seems interesting.

@strange_loop what are the differences between using discord and having a log here?

Psychedelics have taught me some important things about relationships, what is important in life etc. (and they can be extremely fun!) but haven't given me any insight into the "nature of reality", if you will. Maybe I'm a bit insight-resistant since the vipassana retreat also didn't seem to have much effect on me in this regard.

Another question: sometimes at the end of the day I'm motivated to practice more but strong dullness makes it really unenjoyable to do another TMI session. Are there other practices that help building concentration or insight that are "easier" or at least more enjoyable to do when tired? I'm thinking of maybe some mantra meditation or body scans before going to bed?
Stranger_Loop Stranger_Loop, modified 8 Days ago at 1/31/25 11:24 AM
Created 8 Days ago at 1/31/25 11:23 AM

RE: youngster looking for advice

Posts: 80 Join Date: 3/17/23 Recent Posts
@strange_loop what are the differences between using discord and having a log here?

Hm, discord people might reply faster and you have different people there depending on the discord server. For a while I posted my practice log both here and on discord. It also feels easier to make closer contacts on discord right now at least. Discord isn't public which has it's own advantages and the huge disadvantage that not as many other people can profit from you log e.g. in ten years. 

> Psychedelics have taught me some important things about relationships, what is important in life etc. (and they can be extremely fun!) but haven't given me any insight into the "nature of reality", if you will. Maybe I'm a bit insight-resistant since the vipassana retreat also didn't seem to have much effect on me in this regard.

Well, did you do insight practice on psychedelics ;). Psychedelics might make it easier to make new connections and seem have some effect in changing the perceived duality of experience. For people at some level? they tend to also quickly cycle through the stages of insight on mushrooms or LSD. So it seems to do something ... It has risks associated to it obviously.

> Maybe I'm a bit insight-resistant since the vipassana retreat also didn't seem to have much effect on me in this regard.
I don't think Goenka is the best insight practice either though an easy option for a first retreat. For your next retreat you could try to find something else or stay with Goenka. But also not getting any major insights on your first retreat might be normal. Maybe someone with more data could say something. 

Did you read MCTB? If not I would recommend it.

>  Another question: sometimes at the end of the day I'm motivated to practice more but strong dullness makes it really unenjoyable to do another TMI session. Are there other practices that help building concentration or insight that are "easier" or at least more enjoyable to do when tired? I'm thinking of maybe some mantra meditation or body scans before going to bed?

That really depends on what you enjoy. I enjoyed body scans when I first hit dissolution though they were more being lost in some kind of dreamworld for most of the time which might be similar to strong dullness. Or Mantra whatever you enjoy.

You could note and notice you tiredness (more pure insight). And your frustration and anything that feels hard about the noting emoticon. Might be good practice. All dullness is also just more sensations perceived perfectly clearly as sensations of dullness.
Adi Vader, modified 7 Days ago at 2/1/25 10:07 AM
Created 7 Days ago at 2/1/25 10:07 AM

RE: youngster looking for advice

Posts: 416 Join Date: 6/29/20 Recent Posts
>Well, did you do insight practice on psychedelics ;)

Son druggies are just that . They are druggies. They arent yogis son!

>they tend to also quickly cycle through the stages of insight on mushrooms or LSD

Son ... druggies are druggies! Thats all they are! One doesnt get the udayavaya nyana on drugs and one doesnt get it while warching the telly!

I think you undersrtand that! At some level? So .... why are you wilfully spreading misinformation? do you like doing that?? emoticonemoticon


Do you actually enjoy telling people to do drugs and telling them that it has anything whatsoever to do with the Insight knowledges??

​​​​​​​Be honest now! Fess up!! emoticon
Adi Vader, modified 7 Days ago at 2/1/25 10:15 AM
Created 7 Days ago at 2/1/25 10:15 AM

RE: youngster looking for advice

Posts: 416 Join Date: 6/29/20 Recent Posts
I mean if you enjoy doing drugs and can do them without getting into trouble with the law .... knock yourself out!
But .... please dont be under the impression that they have anything to do with Insight with a capital 'I' .... it doesnt matter which book and author tell you that it might be so .... I think you understand me clearly emoticon emoticon
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Jure K, modified 6 Days ago at 2/2/25 5:10 AM
Created 6 Days ago at 2/2/25 5:10 AM

RE: youngster looking for advice

Posts: 503 Join Date: 9/8/20 Recent Posts
Mystic referee, you're a 23 year old medical student, you have a lot going for you! I understand at that age you want to see what all the fuss is about with drugs etc, but if you think meditation can fuck your life up, think again! Listen to Adi and particularly what shargoal has said with establishing a stable sense of self, healthy routine, relationships etc. This will set you up well in middle age, from there you MAY be in a better position, in terms of maturity etc, to dabble in substances if you so choose. I would still exercise a lot of caution before doing so, as I'm sure you're aware always read the label! Peace bro!
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Actuality of Being, modified 6 Days ago at 2/2/25 7:40 AM
Created 6 Days ago at 2/2/25 7:40 AM

RE: youngster looking for advice

Posts: 10 Join Date: 1/11/25 Recent Posts
A narrative about or 'around' meditation undermines the point of meditation. 
Andrew Young, modified 6 Days ago at 2/2/25 9:47 AM
Created 6 Days ago at 2/2/25 9:41 AM

RE: youngster looking for advice

Posts: 4 Join Date: 7/31/24 Recent Posts
@actualityofbeing Oh wise one. Let me wash your feet.
mystic referee, modified 6 Days ago at 2/2/25 1:22 PM
Created 6 Days ago at 2/2/25 1:22 PM

RE: youngster looking for advice

Posts: 4 Join Date: 1/21/25 Recent Posts
I think I'll start a practice log here soon.

Ideally I'd want to make progress with samatha and very slowly with insight. So I'm not going to use psychedelics for that. I have read parts of MCTB2 and yes, there's enough important stuff to focus on at this point in my life as some pointed out so I try to be carefull.

But once you get the sense that there's something out there to discover, it's hard to ignore that.

Thanks again all for the responses, metta
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 6 Days ago at 2/2/25 7:22 PM
Created 6 Days ago at 2/2/25 7:22 PM

RE: youngster looking for advice

Posts: 3346 Join Date: 3/1/20 Recent Posts
emoticon Karma ... it's there to get you no matter how many kind tips we shoot into the abyss for the benefit of sorts! emoticon Gotta chew the morning dew! ... and see it for what it truly is! emoticon 
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 6 Days ago at 2/2/25 7:25 PM
Created 6 Days ago at 2/2/25 7:25 PM

RE: youngster looking for advice

Posts: 3346 Join Date: 3/1/20 Recent Posts
Can I too have a feet wash after him?! I don't mind if you reuse his water! 
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 6 Days ago at 2/2/25 7:26 PM
Created 6 Days ago at 2/2/25 7:26 PM

RE: youngster looking for advice

Posts: 3346 Join Date: 3/1/20 Recent Posts
Cheers! emoticon Do not drink and drive! Or txt and drive! emoticon 

Best wishes to you! emoticon 
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Peter de Waal, modified 3 Days ago at 2/6/25 3:11 AM
Created 3 Days ago at 2/6/25 3:11 AM

RE: youngster looking for advice

Posts: 51 Join Date: 8/15/23 Recent Posts
According to my ex, drinking and texting is also not a good combination, especially at 5am.

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