Re-observation rant

Andrew S, modified 1 Month ago at 1/30/25 7:16 PM
Created 1 Month ago at 1/30/25 7:16 PM

Re-observation rant

Posts: 44 Join Date: 1/9/24 Recent Posts
Re-observation sucks dick so bad. My mind, identified with the 'efforting self' mechanism realises the 'efforting self' mechanism is causing suffering so it tries to get rid of the 'efforting self' by identifying more with the 'efforting self'. Basically digging itself into a deeper fucking hole of shit.

​​​​​​It's like the only way out is to not want to get out but it sucks so you really want to get out. Like wtf...

I'm in equanimity right now and It's hard to pinpoint exact how I got there. Any attempt to stay in equanimity takes me back into reobservation. Which kinda sucks. I've been shifting into awareness mahamudra style to counter this.
 
Ok rant over. Anyone have tips on how to make the transition between re-obsrrvation and equanimity a bit easier?
​​​​​​​I was recommended the book 'shift into freedom' which helps me stabilise equanimity a bit. But it doesn't help much when I'm in reobservation.
Robert L, modified 1 Month ago at 1/30/25 7:55 PM
Created 1 Month ago at 1/30/25 7:55 PM

RE: Re-observation rant

Posts: 123 Join Date: 2/10/19 Recent Posts
Hi Andrew. In the end you'll have to figure this out yourself through your own intuitive practice, so I can only tell you what helped me. I relaxed. I stopped trying to make anything happen. I only got in my own way. Do some loving kindness meditation. Work on jhanas and samatha. Relax relax relax. Equanimity comes when it does. You will never force it to happen. The dark night is not something that you slog through, it is just what is happening, be ok with it. Be ok with everything. and remember to relax. You will not make anything happen, it will just happen. So enjoy yourself and relax. I have never been able to make anything happen, if I thought I did, it was only a delusion.  
Adi Vader, modified 1 Month ago at 1/30/25 11:38 PM
Created 1 Month ago at 1/30/25 11:38 PM

RE: Re-observation rant

Posts: 431 Join Date: 6/29/20 Recent Posts
Hi Andrew

Sankhara upekkha means being totally uncaring of and negligent towards your own conditioning in general and the conditioning that leads to the gross experience of greed hatred and delusion.

Sankhara upekkha nyana - the knowledge of what leads to dispassion towards one's own conditioning. This is a knowledge - it is ... not ... an experience.

To gain this knowledge, be very mindful, very relaxed, very energetic, deeply concentrated and yet actively curious .... as you do your practice.

once you gain this knowledge to a certain extent ... its yours ... to keep! You cannot lose this knowledge.

​​​​​​​This knowledge deepens within the path you are working on and across paths right up to arhatship.
shargrol, modified 1 Month ago at 1/31/25 7:23 AM
Created 1 Month ago at 1/31/25 7:23 AM

RE: Re-observation rant

Posts: 2858 Join Date: 2/8/16 Recent Posts
 
Andrew S:
Anyone have tips on how to make the transition between re-obsrrvation and equanimity a bit easier?


You already know the answer, but I'll say it: "you make the transition between re-observation and equanimity a bit easier make not trying to make it even the slightest bit easier." emoticon harsh, but true. Reobservation is just another aspect of the dukka nanas that teaches you something really important about not fighting an experience that has already arisen. 

​​​​​​​I was recommended the book 'shift into freedom' which helps me stabilise equanimity a bit. But it doesn't help much when I'm in reobservation.


This is just a hunch, but sometimes it's not good to assume that everything calm is equanimity (equanimity nana in the mapping sense). The language that you are using "make the transition..." "helps me stabilise..." sounds like you are still actively trying to shape your experience? One of the things about the equanimity nana is there is a very grand okay-ness with whatever is showing up... 

Ultimately, no big deal. Sounds like ultimately your goal is to focus on the calming aspects of meditation, more on the samatha side of things. That's definitely a very good way to approach meditation, but it also means that mapping things like reobservation and equanimity is much much less important. Just focus on the skills that result in calming... which usually is basically learning to say "yes" to whatever is arising and using a kind of gentle sighing breath to cultivate calmness and ease.  

It also usually involve a little bit of "getting real" and just accepting that in life and in meditation practice, there are times when the body/mind is excitable and other times when it drops into calmness... and doing a daily practice that lets the latter occur more often. Sounds like "shift into freedom" might be a good resource.

Best wishes!
 
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pixelcloud *, modified 1 Month ago at 1/31/25 9:03 AM
Created 1 Month ago at 1/31/25 9:00 AM

RE: Re-observation rant

Posts: 87 Join Date: 10/25/24 Recent Posts
  Don't try to make the efforting (and the efforting of the efforting) go away. See the three characteristics of every sensation that makes all that up. How exactly do you know it sucks bad, that the efforting self is efforting (btw, what self are we talking about, exactly? ;) ), etc.? 

(Try to) Turn toward and investigate. Even toward your anger and frustration and wanting to push away.

If you have jhana, let the rupas arise in sequence, don't technique them, and let j3 do it's thing. Go with the out of phaseness, the center being off and flickery and totally unstable. 3rd is a periphery party. Totally relax into that. Hang out there until it shifts to j4 on its own. That got me back up into EQ before I learned to be with the jucky stuff and investigate and ride the reobs wave as best as I could when it came along. 


You are earning the very valid fruits of your practice, deep insight into the three characteristics. No self to be found, no control, nothing there that will ultimately sartisfy. Even the closest it can get to home. That it sucks ass is, in a way, natures way of telling you that your practice starts hitting close to home. Reobs at its best for me is like sensory experience itself is just juck and irritating and something to get away from. Well, just try to be clear about the sensations that make all that up, all the icky sensations along the midline, the verbal thoughts, the harsh vibratory patterns, etc. See them all come and go, not be self or property of self, not satisfy. They all pass. But they are totally valid, they are part of what reality is doing in your neck of the woods. They have something to teach. Something that you actively set out to learn. Remember that.

These sensations right here are it. And if they spell out future fixation or gross aversion or whatever else, then that is IT right now. 

If things flux out into EQ and the tendency to hold on to that arises, no problem. Just see all those sensations arise on their own, do their thing, check out. Desire for SE is cool, if you can be with the sensations that make it up. And there is no one in control of how long waves of not wanting Reobs or wanting stable EQ or wanting Path arise. Getting worked up about not landing path or falling back to Reobs? Ok, investigate the three Characteristics of the sensations that make all that up. Feeling glad that patient investigation got you to EQ again? Cool, now: how do you know? Notice the sensations of that arise on their own, not be a self or a property of a self, and not be satisfactory. Getting into debates with, ahem,  yourself about how on earth it can be that this can ever function without "you" being in control? Nibble at that with sensory investigation until attention goes wider again. There will likely be many waves of that. Graspy and contracty stuff arising, investigation opening that up. Surf those waves, however many there will be. It will get wider and wider in the end, the touch of investigation becoming gentler and gentler. With every such wave, you learn to just be with, and not push or pull, a little better. This figures itself out with gentle repetition of the actual practice. 

Frustration is food for investigation. Icky sensations are food for investigation. Boredom is food for investigation. Desire is food for investigation. Things appearing unclear is food for investigation. And there is nothing that needs to be done to make those sensations appear more or disappear. So rather than drilling into them with a vipassana powertool, try to have it be like the almost weightless touch of the needle of a record player. Dark night and EQ means you have the chops for it at these stages. 

You set out to investigate experience. Here is experience. Not liking parts of it is more experience to investigate. 

Verbal noting can be a good way to get into dense aversive/desirous/tune-out stuff that you cannot accept/investigate from a standing start. Soaking in jhana is helpful, too, as indicated. 

This is an advanced level of skill development, and you got here, so yaay, man! Learning to be with all the icky stuff and then with all the panoramic EQ "Boy it would be SO nice to stay here" and "Oh man, I wish I could land path" stuff while still seeing the three C's of all of that is the ticket now. Keep on keeping on with investigation, go with the waves of wanting to control, frustration, desire, and more gentle investigation, etc. until the tension around them relaxes and new waves arise, and then keep on keeping on some more. "It always takes more repetitions than we feel it should take." So if frustration about that arises, that displays the three C's, too. It's just what experience is up to right now. 

​​​​​​​Read and reread about navigating Reobs and EQ in Ingram's book and in whatever other resources (like practice logs) speak to you. There probably is a lot in there that you have plain forgotten or not discovered yet that may be very helpful just because the way it is phrased might really hit home for you.   
Andrew S, modified 11 Days ago at 3/5/25 5:36 AM
Created 11 Days ago at 3/5/25 5:36 AM

RE: Re-observation rant

Posts: 44 Join Date: 1/9/24 Recent Posts
Thanks guys