RE: Eureka moment - Discussion
RE: Eureka moment
alas b, modified 15 Days ago at 1/25/25 3:12 PM
Created 15 Days ago at 1/25/25 6:08 AM
Eureka moment
Posts: 8 Join Date: 1/25/25 Recent Posts
Hi everyone.
I'm new here as I signed up this morning to share a funny eureka moment I had a few minutes ago during my sit.
A bit of context first : I've been trying to medidate between 20 and 60 minutes everyday since about last july. In the last weeks, I had a recurring mild headache problem during my sits, during which I try to stay with the breath. Looking up this problem on reddit and here, people talked about too much effort and the like. Before this morning's sit, I stumbled upon this post by Adi Vader ( thanks ) where he talked about attention versus peripheral awareness.
So now for the eureka moment: This morning, I spent about 10 minutes stretching my neck and shoulder before the sit, thinking that this sit will be about relaxing. I set up the medidation clock at 60 minutes, and started my sit. After about 30 minutes of trying to stay with the breath, the very mild headache started to appear again. I thought about peripheral awareness, and more precisely about peripheral vision (my eyes were closed). I tried to widen my visual focus to the entire visual field, or at least to relax my visual focus. The headache receeded. At about the same time, I somewhat realized that the breath sensation about the region of the nose is indeed a very subtle touch sensation.
And then came the genius Eureka moment: I consider myself a quite intelligent person, but I had been inconsciously trying for months to focus on the breath with my visual system, and this misguided effort was certainly related to my mild headaches. I realized it is impossible to see the breath as the breath sensation is perceived by the sense of touch and hearing. And then it is not useful or even meaningful to visually focus on the breath. This made me smile and internally gently laugh at myself as I thought : "Bravo, you now understand the very basic and obvious fact that you cannot see your breath, way to go!"
Then I continued my sit with a more relaxed attitude.
I'm still smiling.
Thank you admins and all for this website.
I'm new here as I signed up this morning to share a funny eureka moment I had a few minutes ago during my sit.
A bit of context first : I've been trying to medidate between 20 and 60 minutes everyday since about last july. In the last weeks, I had a recurring mild headache problem during my sits, during which I try to stay with the breath. Looking up this problem on reddit and here, people talked about too much effort and the like. Before this morning's sit, I stumbled upon this post by Adi Vader ( thanks ) where he talked about attention versus peripheral awareness.
So now for the eureka moment: This morning, I spent about 10 minutes stretching my neck and shoulder before the sit, thinking that this sit will be about relaxing. I set up the medidation clock at 60 minutes, and started my sit. After about 30 minutes of trying to stay with the breath, the very mild headache started to appear again. I thought about peripheral awareness, and more precisely about peripheral vision (my eyes were closed). I tried to widen my visual focus to the entire visual field, or at least to relax my visual focus. The headache receeded. At about the same time, I somewhat realized that the breath sensation about the region of the nose is indeed a very subtle touch sensation.
And then came the genius Eureka moment: I consider myself a quite intelligent person, but I had been inconsciously trying for months to focus on the breath with my visual system, and this misguided effort was certainly related to my mild headaches. I realized it is impossible to see the breath as the breath sensation is perceived by the sense of touch and hearing. And then it is not useful or even meaningful to visually focus on the breath. This made me smile and internally gently laugh at myself as I thought : "Bravo, you now understand the very basic and obvious fact that you cannot see your breath, way to go!"
Then I continued my sit with a more relaxed attitude.
I'm still smiling.
Thank you admins and all for this website.
Actuality of Being, modified 15 Days ago at 1/25/25 8:21 AM
Created 15 Days ago at 1/25/25 8:21 AM
RE: Eureka moment
Posts: 10 Join Date: 1/11/25 Recent Postsalas b, modified 15 Days ago at 1/25/25 9:52 AM
Created 15 Days ago at 1/25/25 9:52 AM
RE: Eureka moment
Posts: 8 Join Date: 1/25/25 Recent Posts
I hope so
I'm all pumped up, wait until I make a big discovery like I can't touch the color red or can't hear the smell of a lemon.

I'm all pumped up, wait until I make a big discovery like I can't touch the color red or can't hear the smell of a lemon.
Chris M, modified 15 Days ago at 1/25/25 11:32 AM
Created 15 Days ago at 1/25/25 11:32 AM
RE: Eureka moment
Posts: 5614 Join Date: 1/26/13 Recent Posts
For extra credit:
While you can't see your breath (unless you're exhaling in a cold environment), you experience other perceptions related to your breathing all the time. When you meditate by focusing on your breath, what mental images do you perceive?
While you can't see your breath (unless you're exhaling in a cold environment), you experience other perceptions related to your breathing all the time. When you meditate by focusing on your breath, what mental images do you perceive?
alas b, modified 15 Days ago at 1/25/25 12:59 PM
Created 15 Days ago at 1/25/25 12:57 PM
RE: Eureka moment
Posts: 8 Join Date: 1/25/25 Recent Posts
Those mental images change a lot, but most of the the time, when I'm not well concentrated, they are related to distracting thoughts, like the face of someone I'm thinking about for a moment, or a mental picture of a part of a body where I'm feeling a painful sensation for example. I'm not entirely sure, but I think that when the concentration is better, those mental images appear less often, and then what I visually perceive is mostly the suble patterns of "colors" that seem to come from behind the eyelids. A few times those got a bit more interesting, especially when the breath was very calm, like somewhat beautiful yellowish diagonal lines on a dark purpleish background that slowly go across the entire visual field one at a time, accompanied by a feeling of tranquillity and agreable breath, in a rhythm more or less correlated to the cycle of the breath. In that case, I guess I could say I indeed saw something correlated to the breath. Problem is, I tend to strive to get those nice feelings again, which doesn't help with relaxing.
Chris M, modified 15 Days ago at 1/25/25 1:00 PM
Created 15 Days ago at 1/25/25 1:00 PM
RE: Eureka moment
Posts: 5614 Join Date: 1/26/13 Recent Posts
When you notice your breath, what images pop up in your mind? If you hear a dog bark, what images pop up in your mind? If you hear a car go by, what pops up in your mind?
alas b, modified 14 Days ago at 1/26/25 1:15 PM
Created 14 Days ago at 1/26/25 1:09 PM
RE: Eureka moment
Posts: 8 Join Date: 1/25/25 Recent Posts
Full disclosure: when I first read your questions, I felt a little bit upset, as the rhythm of the 3 quick questions was a little bit too much AK47-like, and inquisitive, for my taste.
Then I took a few step backs and told myself that maybe, I had to 1 - take responsibility, because I'm the one who started to talk about my practice, and 2 - maybe take those questions not as nosy inquisition, but more likely pointers for my practice from a more experienced practictioner. So I spent the last two sits spending some energy to try and see more clearly into those questions, especially the first one.
In case you are wondering what the results are, here goes, but I have no idea of this is interesting. I'd say that when I notice my breath, the images that pop in my mind are of the following kinds, all sharing the same quality of not being very clearly defined, and very temporary. This is the best I can describe it for now, and I know that is not exactly it, and by order of increasing frequency:
- picture of a nose like those found in a dictionnary ( profile of the interior of a nose with a blue arrow representing the flow of air
- a 3D form of the air passing through my upper respiratory tract
- a patched 3D form of the surfaces in my nose and throat , where the patches are the surfaces where I feel the air passing most clearly
- a zoomed in picture of what I imagine to be the interior of the rim of my nostrils, the part where i feel clearly the air passing by.
When I've been sitting for longer, I more rarely get more abstract images that I feel I'm almost conscioulsy creating, of a surface whose color or size change slightly with the cycle of the breath.
Writing this feels a little bit odd, but what do I know.
In other news, I just finished a sit where I think I got some kind of visual nimitta as described in some books for the first time: after about 45 minutes, a small bright point of white light, but sure enough I immediately got all excited and worried it would go away, which it did by slowly going down the visual field in about 5 or 10 seconds, while getting dimer and dimer.
Thank you for the great questions.
Then I took a few step backs and told myself that maybe, I had to 1 - take responsibility, because I'm the one who started to talk about my practice, and 2 - maybe take those questions not as nosy inquisition, but more likely pointers for my practice from a more experienced practictioner. So I spent the last two sits spending some energy to try and see more clearly into those questions, especially the first one.
In case you are wondering what the results are, here goes, but I have no idea of this is interesting. I'd say that when I notice my breath, the images that pop in my mind are of the following kinds, all sharing the same quality of not being very clearly defined, and very temporary. This is the best I can describe it for now, and I know that is not exactly it, and by order of increasing frequency:
- picture of a nose like those found in a dictionnary ( profile of the interior of a nose with a blue arrow representing the flow of air
- a 3D form of the air passing through my upper respiratory tract
- a patched 3D form of the surfaces in my nose and throat , where the patches are the surfaces where I feel the air passing most clearly
- a zoomed in picture of what I imagine to be the interior of the rim of my nostrils, the part where i feel clearly the air passing by.
When I've been sitting for longer, I more rarely get more abstract images that I feel I'm almost conscioulsy creating, of a surface whose color or size change slightly with the cycle of the breath.
Writing this feels a little bit odd, but what do I know.
In other news, I just finished a sit where I think I got some kind of visual nimitta as described in some books for the first time: after about 45 minutes, a small bright point of white light, but sure enough I immediately got all excited and worried it would go away, which it did by slowly going down the visual field in about 5 or 10 seconds, while getting dimer and dimer.
Thank you for the great questions.
Robert L, modified 13 Days ago at 1/27/25 6:22 AM
Created 13 Days ago at 1/27/25 6:22 AM
RE: Eureka moment
Posts: 114 Join Date: 2/10/19 Recent Posts
Alas, there's a lot of great stuff in your last post. If everyone could take a step back after noticing they are upset, the world would be a better place.
Chris M, modified 13 Days ago at 1/27/25 7:13 AM
Created 13 Days ago at 1/27/25 7:13 AM
RE: Eureka moment
Posts: 5614 Join Date: 1/26/13 Recent Posts
Alas, I was indeed pointing to something for your practice. Please do a Google search on "dependent origination" for a glimpse of what I was getting at. The point of noting these things as you examine your experiences while meditating is to investigate how your mind works to create your reality. Those transient images that pop into your head when you experience a sensation are part of that process.
Thanks for humoring me.
Thanks for humoring me.
alas b, modified 13 Days ago at 1/27/25 5:11 PM
Created 13 Days ago at 1/27/25 5:11 PM
RE: Eureka moment
Posts: 8 Join Date: 1/25/25 Recent Posts
Robert L, your kind words are deeply appreciated.
Chris M, I will look into this, and you are welcome.
Chris M, I will look into this, and you are welcome.
terry, modified 12 Days ago at 1/28/25 11:35 PM
Created 12 Days ago at 1/28/25 11:35 PM
RE: Eureka moment
Posts: 2847 Join Date: 8/7/17 Recent Posts
The initial post reminded me of a story, but now I hope it won't be taken for a missile of some sort.
I mean, it's a break through, kinda...
There is a story in Aesop’s fables about a young mole who went to his mother and told her that he could see. Now, as most people know, sight is something traditionally lacking in moles. This one’s mother decided to test him. She accordingly placed in front of him a piece of frankincense, and asked him what it was.
‘A stone,’ said the little mole.
‘Not only are you blind,’ his mother answered, ‘but you have lost your sense of smell as well.’
~idries shah
I mean, it's a break through, kinda...
There is a story in Aesop’s fables about a young mole who went to his mother and told her that he could see. Now, as most people know, sight is something traditionally lacking in moles. This one’s mother decided to test him. She accordingly placed in front of him a piece of frankincense, and asked him what it was.
‘A stone,’ said the little mole.
‘Not only are you blind,’ his mother answered, ‘but you have lost your sense of smell as well.’
~idries shah
Papa Che Dusko, modified 11 Days ago at 1/29/25 11:56 AM
Created 11 Days ago at 1/29/25 11:56 AM
RE: Eureka moment
Posts: 3350 Join Date: 3/1/20 Recent Postsalas b, modified 11 Days ago at 1/29/25 3:20 PM
Created 11 Days ago at 1/29/25 3:15 PM
RE: Eureka moment
Posts: 8 Join Date: 1/25/25 Recent Posts
Terry,
No worries, the projectile did not explode on impact because it landed on a soft spot for fables.
So we had our best engineers to work on reverse enginering it, down here at the molehill. The result of their investigations follows, and are to be taken with a grain of salt, as it was all done without a single good pair of eyes.
- the main payload was composed of words of caution about believing one knows something, or misguided self confidence, encased in a light case of humorous poking.
- the engine of the projectile itself looks like it runs on pristine high octane compassion.
- strangely enough, no central guiding system was found.
---
Seriously, I'm now suspecting the little story I started with was just that, a little story I told myself, one more distraction, although it lightened up my mood for a while, so there's that.
Happy lunar new year to all
No worries, the projectile did not explode on impact because it landed on a soft spot for fables.
So we had our best engineers to work on reverse enginering it, down here at the molehill. The result of their investigations follows, and are to be taken with a grain of salt, as it was all done without a single good pair of eyes.
- the main payload was composed of words of caution about believing one knows something, or misguided self confidence, encased in a light case of humorous poking.
- the engine of the projectile itself looks like it runs on pristine high octane compassion.
- strangely enough, no central guiding system was found.
---
Seriously, I'm now suspecting the little story I started with was just that, a little story I told myself, one more distraction, although it lightened up my mood for a while, so there's that.
Happy lunar new year to all

Matt Jon Rousseau, modified 11 Days ago at 1/29/25 7:38 PM
Created 11 Days ago at 1/29/25 7:38 PM
RE: Eureka moment
Posts: 260 Join Date: 5/1/22 Recent Posts
I just had a eureka moment. When I do breath concentration. I actually picture the Inside of a nose also. Obviously I'm not very mindfull of it though. I just really , realized realizing it in this thread
alas b, modified 10 Days ago at 1/30/25 2:21 PM
Created 10 Days ago at 1/30/25 1:48 PM
RE: Eureka moment
Posts: 8 Join Date: 1/25/25 Recent PostsStranger_Loop Stranger_Loop, modified 10 Days ago at 1/30/25 3:52 PM
Created 10 Days ago at 1/30/25 3:52 PM
RE: Eureka moment
Posts: 80 Join Date: 3/17/23 Recent Posts
Haha. And then one day you realize it's all just right there happening on it's own and you are done.
<br /><br />I love the insight with clear description of what's going on in the senses. Nice.
<br /><br />Your sensations are all just there. Your ears work whether you want to listen to or not, Your eyes see, your thoughts thought ;) (though your experience is probably switching between the different sense doors at a very fast rate right now instead of them happening at the same time which makes the feeling of doing something to experience something more real). Anything that's there is a sensations. Looking at the sensation of looking might be interesting. And then looking at that looking and so on ...
<br /><br />The other direction is the letting go/softening into peripheral awareness which can then end up with seeing without trying to see/hearing without trying to hear.<br /><br />
The periphery vs center are also related to the VS jhanas/jhanas.
<br /><br />I love the insight with clear description of what's going on in the senses. Nice.
<br /><br />Your sensations are all just there. Your ears work whether you want to listen to or not, Your eyes see, your thoughts thought ;) (though your experience is probably switching between the different sense doors at a very fast rate right now instead of them happening at the same time which makes the feeling of doing something to experience something more real). Anything that's there is a sensations. Looking at the sensation of looking might be interesting. And then looking at that looking and so on ...
<br /><br />The other direction is the letting go/softening into peripheral awareness which can then end up with seeing without trying to see/hearing without trying to hear.<br /><br />
The periphery vs center are also related to the VS jhanas/jhanas.
alas b, modified 9 Days ago at 1/31/25 12:01 PM
Created 9 Days ago at 1/31/25 11:55 AM
RE: Eureka moment
Posts: 8 Join Date: 1/25/25 Recent Posts
Thank you very much Stranger_loop for the suggestions. I like that you liked the descriptions.
About this:
Any tips on how to go about doing that ? (If i have to figure out by myself that's also fine by me
, asking just in case there are known techniques )
About this:
Looking at the sensation of looking
Any tips on how to go about doing that ? (If i have to figure out by myself that's also fine by me

terry, modified 9 Days ago at 1/31/25 6:15 PM
Created 9 Days ago at 1/31/25 6:10 PM
RE: Eureka moment
Posts: 2847 Join Date: 8/7/17 Recent Posts
Like any fable or sufi story, it is worth pondering. There is more here than a simple moral.
In pursut of a rare skill for his kind, the young, inexperienced mole neglects his natural gifts. Not realizing the endowments that are his birthright, he blindly seeks a fabulous ability. He interprets sensory stimuli in visual terms he is not experienced in. Consequently there are misapprehensions and confusion.
Fortunately he has a compassiojnate mentor and progenitor who offers gentle simultaneous approval and correction, the correct admixture of majesty and beauty, awe and intimacy.
Watching And Waiting
(moody blues)
Watching and waiting
For a friend to play with
Why have I been alone so long
Mole he is burrowing his way to the sunlight
He knows there's some there so strong
'Cause here there's lot of room for doing
The thing you've always been denied
Look and gather all you want to
There's no one here to stop you trying
Soon you will see me
'Cause I'll be all around you
But where I come from I can't tell
But don't be alarmed by my fields and my forests
They're here for only you to share
'Cause here there's lot of room for doing
The things you've always been denied
So look and gather all you want to
There's no one here to stop you trying
Watching and waiting
For someone to understand me
I hope it won't be very long
this is what shah himself said of the story...
We can analyse the story to see what it really means, if we know something of the Sufi tradition and its method of concealing meanings in literature.
‘Mole’ in Arabic (khuld, from the radical KHLD) is written in the same way as khalad, which stands for ‘eternity, paradise, thought, mind, soul’, according to the context. Because only the consonants are written, there is no way of telling, in isolation, which word is intended. If this word were used poetically in a Semitic language and then translated into Greek by someone who did not understand the double meaning, the play upon words would be lost.
Why the stone and scent? Because, in Sufi tradition, ‘Moses [a guide to his people] made a stone as fragrant as musk’ (Hakim Sanai, The Walled Garden of Truth).
‘Moses’ symbolises a guiding thought, which transforms something apparently inanimate and inert into something ‘as fragrant as musk’ — something with what might almost be called a life of its own.
Our story now shows us that the ‘mother’ of the thought (its origin, matrix, essential quality) presents ‘frankincense’ (impalpable experience) to the thought, or mind. Because the individual (the mole) is concentrating upon ‘sight’ (trying to develop faculties in the wrong order) it even loses the power to use the ones which it should have.
The human being, according to the Sufis, instead of reaching within himself in a certain manner in order to find and attain his development, searches outside, and follows illusions (metaphysical systems wrongly developed) which in fact cripple him.
What is the inner potentiality of the ‘mole’? We can now look at the whole group of words in Arabic which belong to the root KHLD which we are considering:
Khalad (KHaLaD) = ever abiding, long-lasting
Khallad (KHaLLaD) = to perpetuate a thing
Akhlad (AKHLaD) = to lean toward, to adhere faithfully to (a friend)
Khuld (KHuLD) = eternity, paradise, continuity
Khuld (KHuLD) = mole, field rat, lark (bird)
Khalad (KHaLaD) = thought, mind, soul
El-Khualid (EL-KHUALiD) = mountains, rocks, supporters (of a pot)
To the Sufi, this grouping of words around a basic root conveys essentials for human forward development. It is almost a map of Sufism. The mole, because of coincidence, can be chosen as the symbol of the mind, or thought. In the same mind there is eternity, continuity, support. Sufism is concerned with the perpetuation of the human consciousness through its source in the mind. Faithfulness in association with others is an essential of this task.
The Aesopian story, therefore, does not mean, as its commentators would believe, that ‘It is easy to unmask an impostor.’ We need not deny that the tale could have fulfilled this function for centuries. But the use of the incense and the mole, plus the Sufi tradition that certain secrets are concealed in such words as those of Aesop, help us to unlock the door. Looking at a great deal of literary and philosophical material in this light, we are irresistibly reminded of the message of Rumi, himself, like Aesop, a great fabulist of Asia Minor. He says that the canal may not itself drink, but it performs the function of conveying water to the thirsty. Those who are interested in this interpretation of the mole symbolism might well feel that the light-hearted potted wisdom of Aesop has been the carrier of the nutrition which we now find in it.
Rumi lived nearly two thousand years after Aesop, and he said: ‘A tale, fictitious or otherwise, illuminates truth.’
In pursut of a rare skill for his kind, the young, inexperienced mole neglects his natural gifts. Not realizing the endowments that are his birthright, he blindly seeks a fabulous ability. He interprets sensory stimuli in visual terms he is not experienced in. Consequently there are misapprehensions and confusion.
Fortunately he has a compassiojnate mentor and progenitor who offers gentle simultaneous approval and correction, the correct admixture of majesty and beauty, awe and intimacy.
Watching And Waiting
(moody blues)
Watching and waiting
For a friend to play with
Why have I been alone so long
Mole he is burrowing his way to the sunlight
He knows there's some there so strong
'Cause here there's lot of room for doing
The thing you've always been denied
Look and gather all you want to
There's no one here to stop you trying
Soon you will see me
'Cause I'll be all around you
But where I come from I can't tell
But don't be alarmed by my fields and my forests
They're here for only you to share
'Cause here there's lot of room for doing
The things you've always been denied
So look and gather all you want to
There's no one here to stop you trying
Watching and waiting
For someone to understand me
I hope it won't be very long
this is what shah himself said of the story...
We can analyse the story to see what it really means, if we know something of the Sufi tradition and its method of concealing meanings in literature.
‘Mole’ in Arabic (khuld, from the radical KHLD) is written in the same way as khalad, which stands for ‘eternity, paradise, thought, mind, soul’, according to the context. Because only the consonants are written, there is no way of telling, in isolation, which word is intended. If this word were used poetically in a Semitic language and then translated into Greek by someone who did not understand the double meaning, the play upon words would be lost.
Why the stone and scent? Because, in Sufi tradition, ‘Moses [a guide to his people] made a stone as fragrant as musk’ (Hakim Sanai, The Walled Garden of Truth).
‘Moses’ symbolises a guiding thought, which transforms something apparently inanimate and inert into something ‘as fragrant as musk’ — something with what might almost be called a life of its own.
Our story now shows us that the ‘mother’ of the thought (its origin, matrix, essential quality) presents ‘frankincense’ (impalpable experience) to the thought, or mind. Because the individual (the mole) is concentrating upon ‘sight’ (trying to develop faculties in the wrong order) it even loses the power to use the ones which it should have.
The human being, according to the Sufis, instead of reaching within himself in a certain manner in order to find and attain his development, searches outside, and follows illusions (metaphysical systems wrongly developed) which in fact cripple him.
What is the inner potentiality of the ‘mole’? We can now look at the whole group of words in Arabic which belong to the root KHLD which we are considering:
Khalad (KHaLaD) = ever abiding, long-lasting
Khallad (KHaLLaD) = to perpetuate a thing
Akhlad (AKHLaD) = to lean toward, to adhere faithfully to (a friend)
Khuld (KHuLD) = eternity, paradise, continuity
Khuld (KHuLD) = mole, field rat, lark (bird)
Khalad (KHaLaD) = thought, mind, soul
El-Khualid (EL-KHUALiD) = mountains, rocks, supporters (of a pot)
To the Sufi, this grouping of words around a basic root conveys essentials for human forward development. It is almost a map of Sufism. The mole, because of coincidence, can be chosen as the symbol of the mind, or thought. In the same mind there is eternity, continuity, support. Sufism is concerned with the perpetuation of the human consciousness through its source in the mind. Faithfulness in association with others is an essential of this task.
The Aesopian story, therefore, does not mean, as its commentators would believe, that ‘It is easy to unmask an impostor.’ We need not deny that the tale could have fulfilled this function for centuries. But the use of the incense and the mole, plus the Sufi tradition that certain secrets are concealed in such words as those of Aesop, help us to unlock the door. Looking at a great deal of literary and philosophical material in this light, we are irresistibly reminded of the message of Rumi, himself, like Aesop, a great fabulist of Asia Minor. He says that the canal may not itself drink, but it performs the function of conveying water to the thirsty. Those who are interested in this interpretation of the mole symbolism might well feel that the light-hearted potted wisdom of Aesop has been the carrier of the nutrition which we now find in it.
Rumi lived nearly two thousand years after Aesop, and he said: ‘A tale, fictitious or otherwise, illuminates truth.’
Stranger_Loop Stranger_Loop, modified 5 Days ago at 2/4/25 4:20 AM
Created 5 Days ago at 2/4/25 4:16 AM
RE: Eureka moment
Posts: 80 Join Date: 3/17/23 Recent Posts
TL;DR: This sensation right here.
It's one of the things which it is all about. So every technique/teaching will lead you there if executed well.
You will have to figure it out by yourself and in some way actually becoming intimate with experience and being by yourself instead of using a framework is the solution.
More practically: It's more sensations. So if you go fast enough it will be there.
(Stuff about models:
Very simplified model of your experience observing the meditation object (EO= Experience of Observing, EMO=Experience of Meditation object):
Frame 1: EO
Frame 2: EMO
Frame 3: EMO
Frame 4: SE (something else)
Frame 5: SE (something else)
Frame 6: EMO
Frame 8: EO
Frame 9: SE (something else)
Frame 10: SE (something else)
Frame 11: EO
Frame 12: EMO
Frame 13: SE (something else)
Frame 14: SE (something else)
Frame 15: EO
Frame 16: EMO
A&P (EMO here an be any clearly perceived sensation)
One interpretation of the VS jhanas I like is that you start looking at the object/what's there. You get really good at it so more and more frames are made up of the object/what's there. Then you get so good at it that you start expecting to see the object but instead see the Experience of trying to observe the object. (Just that actually this is in some ways not really just a time thing but also a space of experience thing (which is where the periphery comes in). As I said this model is super simplified, I have no clue (like actually) so don't let it distract you.) So now you brain realizes: Whatttt there is a self here observing things, that seems stupid let me try to take a closer look and update to a new model (dark night). Then when it finally updates you get streamentry. Repeat until you are satisfied.
So that's why you try to observe the present moment very closely at a very high speed. So you notice the things you brain predicts are not there. If you do concentration instead of vipassna then you try to convince your mind that no actually this is real which is why you get less insight ( at some point your mind will probably still update just slow). In reality we always do a mix of concentration and vipassna.
Using the background and foreground model used in MCTB, normally the self is in the background and the object in the foreground. Then this switches around. Suffering is wanting to go from background to foreground/the other direction. Awakening is both arising together. That's why during Dark Night trying to go to the object causes the suffering while chilling is fine. At some point (high Equanimity or high paths or randomly), your mind realizes that when it's not trying to go from the self to the object or the object to the self both are already there and there wasn't really a separation (seeing without trying to look). During Dark nights you go wider/softer. Both during A&P and Dark Nights it's a letting go to perceive the object clearer just that during Dark Night you and the looking are the object.
There are some things there which make this more confusing like your mind thinking it can only perceive one sense door at a time (check out Dreamwalkers maps) but everything including the feeling of separation and wanting to go there were just happening on their own.
If any of that comes up during practice note thought ;). If you read MCTB, remember the poor farmer in MCTB practicing far better than Daniel. You don't want to end up like Daniel
.
To get things done, there are just the sensations right this moment. Which might be thoughts about maps, or touch or smell or images or sounds. They seem like they are permanent, observed by a self and contain suffering but none of that is true. Look closer/faster/wider/less.
Writing down in detail what you experienced during a session can be helpful. E.g. you might write down: "I was tired" and realize that you didn't note thought and sensations instead (assuming a noting/noticing practice).
Good luck. I am never sure whether talking about Maps and models is helpful or not so feel very free to ignore it.
https://vimeo.com/250616410
It's one of the things which it is all about. So every technique/teaching will lead you there if executed well.
You will have to figure it out by yourself and in some way actually becoming intimate with experience and being by yourself instead of using a framework is the solution.
More practically: It's more sensations. So if you go fast enough it will be there.
(Stuff about models:
Very simplified model of your experience observing the meditation object (EO= Experience of Observing, EMO=Experience of Meditation object):
Frame 1: EO
Frame 2: EMO
Frame 3: EMO
Frame 4: SE (something else)
Frame 5: SE (something else)
Frame 6: EMO
Frame 8: EO
Frame 9: SE (something else)
Frame 10: SE (something else)
Frame 11: EO
Frame 12: EMO
Frame 13: SE (something else)
Frame 14: SE (something else)
Frame 15: EO
Frame 16: EMO
A&P (EMO here an be any clearly perceived sensation)
- Frame 1: EO
- Frame 2: EMO
- Frame 3: EMO
- Frame 4: EMO
- Frame 5: EO
- Frame 6: EMO
- Frame 7: EMO
- Frame 8: EMO
- Frame 9: EMO
- Frame 10: EO
- Frame 11: EMO
- Frame 12: EO
- Frame 13: EMO
One interpretation of the VS jhanas I like is that you start looking at the object/what's there. You get really good at it so more and more frames are made up of the object/what's there. Then you get so good at it that you start expecting to see the object but instead see the Experience of trying to observe the object. (Just that actually this is in some ways not really just a time thing but also a space of experience thing (which is where the periphery comes in). As I said this model is super simplified, I have no clue (like actually) so don't let it distract you.) So now you brain realizes: Whatttt there is a self here observing things, that seems stupid let me try to take a closer look and update to a new model (dark night). Then when it finally updates you get streamentry. Repeat until you are satisfied.
So that's why you try to observe the present moment very closely at a very high speed. So you notice the things you brain predicts are not there. If you do concentration instead of vipassna then you try to convince your mind that no actually this is real which is why you get less insight ( at some point your mind will probably still update just slow). In reality we always do a mix of concentration and vipassna.
Using the background and foreground model used in MCTB, normally the self is in the background and the object in the foreground. Then this switches around. Suffering is wanting to go from background to foreground/the other direction. Awakening is both arising together. That's why during Dark Night trying to go to the object causes the suffering while chilling is fine. At some point (high Equanimity or high paths or randomly), your mind realizes that when it's not trying to go from the self to the object or the object to the self both are already there and there wasn't really a separation (seeing without trying to look). During Dark nights you go wider/softer. Both during A&P and Dark Nights it's a letting go to perceive the object clearer just that during Dark Night you and the looking are the object.
There are some things there which make this more confusing like your mind thinking it can only perceive one sense door at a time (check out Dreamwalkers maps) but everything including the feeling of separation and wanting to go there were just happening on their own.
If any of that comes up during practice note thought ;). If you read MCTB, remember the poor farmer in MCTB practicing far better than Daniel. You don't want to end up like Daniel

To get things done, there are just the sensations right this moment. Which might be thoughts about maps, or touch or smell or images or sounds. They seem like they are permanent, observed by a self and contain suffering but none of that is true. Look closer/faster/wider/less.
Writing down in detail what you experienced during a session can be helpful. E.g. you might write down: "I was tired" and realize that you didn't note thought and sensations instead (assuming a noting/noticing practice).
Good luck. I am never sure whether talking about Maps and models is helpful or not so feel very free to ignore it.
https://vimeo.com/250616410