RE: mappo - Discussion
RE: mappo
terry, modified 27 Days ago at 1/12/25 12:49 PM
Created 27 Days ago at 1/12/25 12:49 PM
mappo
Posts: 2847 Join Date: 8/7/17 Recent Posts
continuing...
from
https://parisinstitute.org/veils-of-light-and-darkness-thinking-through-ibn-arabis-bezels-of-wisdom/
To Ibn Arabi, the dream state is full of symbols that point to the origin of the dream, i.e., reality. The phenomenal world must be interpreted, just like a dream, to reveal the truth it conceals: “When Muhammad said, ‘All men are asleep and when they die they will awake,’ he meant that everything a man sees in this life is of the same kind as that which one sleeping sees; in other words an apparition that requires interpretation.” “The interpreter,” Ibn Arabi adds, “proceeds from the form seen by the dreamer to the form of the thing in itself, if he is successful.” In fact, such interpretation (ta’wil) is the only way to reach the hidden truth behind the phenomena.
As an example of failed interpretation, Ibn Arabi offers the vision in which the prophet Abraham was urged by God to sacrifice his son. “Had he been true to the vision,” Ibn Arabi states, “he would have killed his son, for he believed that it was his son he saw although with God it was nothing other than the Great Sacrifice in the form of his son.” This, to the philosopher, was a failure on the prophet’s part: “He did not interpret what he saw, but took it at its face value, although visions require interpretation.”
Ibn Arabi’s view of the phenomenal world as a dream world does not imply a devaluation of the dream world as somehow “unreal” or “less real” than the reality. The difference between the dream world and reality is that the former consists of individuals and particulars, subjects and objects, things that are distinct from each other, whereas in the latter, everything is united and one. However, we are not talking about two different worlds here, but rather two different perspectives on the same world: ultimately, to Ibn Arabi, dream and reality are only two aspects of the same unity. To awaken, then, means to comprehend the reality in its totality, from which perspective particularity and individuality appear like a dream.
from
https://parisinstitute.org/veils-of-light-and-darkness-thinking-through-ibn-arabis-bezels-of-wisdom/
To Ibn Arabi, the dream state is full of symbols that point to the origin of the dream, i.e., reality. The phenomenal world must be interpreted, just like a dream, to reveal the truth it conceals: “When Muhammad said, ‘All men are asleep and when they die they will awake,’ he meant that everything a man sees in this life is of the same kind as that which one sleeping sees; in other words an apparition that requires interpretation.” “The interpreter,” Ibn Arabi adds, “proceeds from the form seen by the dreamer to the form of the thing in itself, if he is successful.” In fact, such interpretation (ta’wil) is the only way to reach the hidden truth behind the phenomena.
As an example of failed interpretation, Ibn Arabi offers the vision in which the prophet Abraham was urged by God to sacrifice his son. “Had he been true to the vision,” Ibn Arabi states, “he would have killed his son, for he believed that it was his son he saw although with God it was nothing other than the Great Sacrifice in the form of his son.” This, to the philosopher, was a failure on the prophet’s part: “He did not interpret what he saw, but took it at its face value, although visions require interpretation.”
Ibn Arabi’s view of the phenomenal world as a dream world does not imply a devaluation of the dream world as somehow “unreal” or “less real” than the reality. The difference between the dream world and reality is that the former consists of individuals and particulars, subjects and objects, things that are distinct from each other, whereas in the latter, everything is united and one. However, we are not talking about two different worlds here, but rather two different perspectives on the same world: ultimately, to Ibn Arabi, dream and reality are only two aspects of the same unity. To awaken, then, means to comprehend the reality in its totality, from which perspective particularity and individuality appear like a dream.
terry, modified 27 Days ago at 1/12/25 2:10 PM
Created 27 Days ago at 1/12/25 2:10 PM
RE: mappo
Posts: 2847 Join Date: 8/7/17 Recent PostsPapa Che Dusko, modified 27 Days ago at 1/12/25 7:27 PM
Created 27 Days ago at 1/12/25 7:27 PM
RE: mappo
Posts: 3346 Join Date: 3/1/20 Recent Poststerry, modified 23 Days ago at 1/16/25 12:46 PM
Created 23 Days ago at 1/16/25 12:46 PM
RE: mappo
Posts: 2847 Join Date: 8/7/17 Recent Poststerry, modified 23 Days ago at 1/16/25 12:49 PM
Created 23 Days ago at 1/16/25 12:49 PM
RE: mappo
Posts: 2847 Join Date: 8/7/17 Recent Posts
a little beauty
a little cutie
smile
the sisters of mercy
(leonard cohen)
[Verse 1]
Oh the sisters of mercy, they are not departed or gone
They were waitin' for me when I thought that I just can't go on
And they brought me their comfort and later they brought me this song
Oh I hope you run into them, you who've been travelling so long
[Verse 2]
Yes you who must leave everything that you cannot control
It begins with your family, but soon it comes round to your soul
Well I've been where you're hanging, I think I can see how you're pinned:
When you're not feeling holy, your loneliness says that you've sinned
[Verse 3]
Well they lay down beside me, I made my confession to them
They touched both my eyes and I touched the dew on their hem
If your life is a leaf that the seasons tear off and condemn
They will bind you with love that is graceful and green as a stem
[Verse 4]
When I left they were sleeping, I hope you run into them soon
Don't turn on the lights, you can read their address by the moon
And you won't make me jealous if I hear that they sweetened your night
We weren't lovers like that and besides it would still be all right
We weren't lovers like that and besides it would still be all right
a little cutie
smile
the sisters of mercy
(leonard cohen)
[Verse 1]
Oh the sisters of mercy, they are not departed or gone
They were waitin' for me when I thought that I just can't go on
And they brought me their comfort and later they brought me this song
Oh I hope you run into them, you who've been travelling so long
[Verse 2]
Yes you who must leave everything that you cannot control
It begins with your family, but soon it comes round to your soul
Well I've been where you're hanging, I think I can see how you're pinned:
When you're not feeling holy, your loneliness says that you've sinned
[Verse 3]
Well they lay down beside me, I made my confession to them
They touched both my eyes and I touched the dew on their hem
If your life is a leaf that the seasons tear off and condemn
They will bind you with love that is graceful and green as a stem
[Verse 4]
When I left they were sleeping, I hope you run into them soon
Don't turn on the lights, you can read their address by the moon
And you won't make me jealous if I hear that they sweetened your night
We weren't lovers like that and besides it would still be all right
We weren't lovers like that and besides it would still be all right
terry, modified 21 Days ago at 1/18/25 1:29 PM
Created 21 Days ago at 1/18/25 1:29 PM
RE: mappo
Posts: 2847 Join Date: 8/7/17 Recent PostsPapa Che Dusko, modified 20 Days ago at 1/19/25 6:21 PM
Created 20 Days ago at 1/19/25 6:21 PM
RE: mappo
Posts: 3346 Join Date: 3/1/20 Recent Poststerry, modified 14 Days ago at 1/26/25 1:13 AM
Created 14 Days ago at 1/26/25 1:13 AM
RE: mappo
Posts: 2847 Join Date: 8/7/17 Recent Posts
Pseudo-Dionysius Areopagita
The Divine Names, Chapter IV
On the Beautiful
1. Now let us consider the name of ”Good” which
the Sacred Writers apply to the Supra-Divine Godhead in
a transcendent manner, calling the Supreme Divine Existence Itself ”Goodness” (as it seems to me) in a sense that separates It from the whole creation, and meaning, by this term, to indicate that the Good, under the form of Good-Being, extends Its goodness by the very fact of Its existence unto all things. For as our sun, through no choice
or deliberation, but by the very fact of its existence, gives
light to all those things which have any inherent power of
sharing its illumination, even so the Good (which is above
the sun, as the transcendent archetype by the very mode of
its existence is above its faded image) sends forth upon all
things according to their receptive powers, the rays of Its
undivided Goodness.
[. . .]
7. This Good is described by the Sacred Writers as Beautiful and as Beauty, as Love or Beloved, and by all other
Divine titles which befit Its beautifying and gracious fairness. Now there is a distinction between the titles ”Beautiful” and ”Beauty” applied to the all-embracing Cause. For
we universally distinguish these two titles as meaning respectively the qualities shared and the objects which share
therein. We give the name of ”Beautiful” to that which
shares in the quality of beauty, and we give the name of
”Beauty” to that common quality by which all beautiful
things are beautiful. But the Super-Essential Beautiful is
called ”Beauty” because of that quality which It imparts to
all things severally according to their nature, and because
It is the Cause of the harmony and splendour in all things,
flashing forth upon them all, like light, the beautifying communications of Its originating ray; and because It summons
all things to fare unto Itself (from whence It hath the name
of ”Fairness”), and because It draws all things together in
a state of mutual inter penetration. And it is called ”Beautiful” because It is All-Beautiful and more than Beautiful,
and is eternally, unvaryingly, unchangeably Beautiful; incapable of birth or death or growth or decay; and not beautiful in one part and foul in another; nor yet at one time and
not at another; nor yet beautiful in relation to one thing but
not to another; nor yet beautiful in one place and not in
another (as if It were beautiful for some but were not beautiful for others); nay, on the contrary, It is, in Itself and by Itself, uniquely and eternally beautiful, and from beforehand It contains in a transcendent manner the originating
beauty of everything that is beautiful. For in the simple
and supernatural nature belonging to the world of beautiful things, all beauty and all that is beautiful hath its unique and pre-existent Cause. From this Beautiful all things possess their existence, each kind being beautiful in its own manner, and the Beautiful causes the harmonies and sympathies and communities of all things. And by the Beautiful
all things are united together and the Beautiful is the beginning of all things, as being the Creative Cause which moves
the world and holds all things in existence by their yearning for their own Beauty. And It is the Goal of all things,
and their Beloved, as being their Final Cause (for ‘tis the
desire of the Beautiful that brings them all into existence),
and It is their Exemplar from which they derive their definite limits; and hence the Beautiful is the same as the Good, inasmuch as all things, in all causation, desire the Beautiful and Good; nor is there anything in the world but hath a share in the Beautiful and Good. Moreover our Discourse will dare to aver that even the Non-Existent shares in the
Beautiful and Good, for Non-Existence is itself beautiful
and good when, by the Negation of all Attributes, it is ascribed Super-Essentially to God. This One Good and Beautiful is in Its oneness the Cause of all the many beautiful and good things. Hence comes the bare existence of all things, and hence their unions, their differentiations, their identities, their differences, their similarities, their dissimilarities, their communions of opposite things, the unconfused
distinctions of their interpenetrating elements; the providences of the Superiors, the interdependence of the Coordinates, the responses of the Inferiors, the states of permanence wherein all keep their own identity. And hence again the intercommunion of all things according to the power of each; their harmonies and sympathies (which do0 not merge them) and the co-ordinations of the whole universe; the mixture of elements therein and the indestructible ligaments of things; the ceaseless succession of the recreative process in Minds and Souls and in Bodies; for all have rest and movement in That Which, above all rest and all movement, grounds each one in its own natural laws
and moves each one to its own proper movement.
The Divine Names, Chapter IV
On the Beautiful
1. Now let us consider the name of ”Good” which
the Sacred Writers apply to the Supra-Divine Godhead in
a transcendent manner, calling the Supreme Divine Existence Itself ”Goodness” (as it seems to me) in a sense that separates It from the whole creation, and meaning, by this term, to indicate that the Good, under the form of Good-Being, extends Its goodness by the very fact of Its existence unto all things. For as our sun, through no choice
or deliberation, but by the very fact of its existence, gives
light to all those things which have any inherent power of
sharing its illumination, even so the Good (which is above
the sun, as the transcendent archetype by the very mode of
its existence is above its faded image) sends forth upon all
things according to their receptive powers, the rays of Its
undivided Goodness.
[. . .]
7. This Good is described by the Sacred Writers as Beautiful and as Beauty, as Love or Beloved, and by all other
Divine titles which befit Its beautifying and gracious fairness. Now there is a distinction between the titles ”Beautiful” and ”Beauty” applied to the all-embracing Cause. For
we universally distinguish these two titles as meaning respectively the qualities shared and the objects which share
therein. We give the name of ”Beautiful” to that which
shares in the quality of beauty, and we give the name of
”Beauty” to that common quality by which all beautiful
things are beautiful. But the Super-Essential Beautiful is
called ”Beauty” because of that quality which It imparts to
all things severally according to their nature, and because
It is the Cause of the harmony and splendour in all things,
flashing forth upon them all, like light, the beautifying communications of Its originating ray; and because It summons
all things to fare unto Itself (from whence It hath the name
of ”Fairness”), and because It draws all things together in
a state of mutual inter penetration. And it is called ”Beautiful” because It is All-Beautiful and more than Beautiful,
and is eternally, unvaryingly, unchangeably Beautiful; incapable of birth or death or growth or decay; and not beautiful in one part and foul in another; nor yet at one time and
not at another; nor yet beautiful in relation to one thing but
not to another; nor yet beautiful in one place and not in
another (as if It were beautiful for some but were not beautiful for others); nay, on the contrary, It is, in Itself and by Itself, uniquely and eternally beautiful, and from beforehand It contains in a transcendent manner the originating
beauty of everything that is beautiful. For in the simple
and supernatural nature belonging to the world of beautiful things, all beauty and all that is beautiful hath its unique and pre-existent Cause. From this Beautiful all things possess their existence, each kind being beautiful in its own manner, and the Beautiful causes the harmonies and sympathies and communities of all things. And by the Beautiful
all things are united together and the Beautiful is the beginning of all things, as being the Creative Cause which moves
the world and holds all things in existence by their yearning for their own Beauty. And It is the Goal of all things,
and their Beloved, as being their Final Cause (for ‘tis the
desire of the Beautiful that brings them all into existence),
and It is their Exemplar from which they derive their definite limits; and hence the Beautiful is the same as the Good, inasmuch as all things, in all causation, desire the Beautiful and Good; nor is there anything in the world but hath a share in the Beautiful and Good. Moreover our Discourse will dare to aver that even the Non-Existent shares in the
Beautiful and Good, for Non-Existence is itself beautiful
and good when, by the Negation of all Attributes, it is ascribed Super-Essentially to God. This One Good and Beautiful is in Its oneness the Cause of all the many beautiful and good things. Hence comes the bare existence of all things, and hence their unions, their differentiations, their identities, their differences, their similarities, their dissimilarities, their communions of opposite things, the unconfused
distinctions of their interpenetrating elements; the providences of the Superiors, the interdependence of the Coordinates, the responses of the Inferiors, the states of permanence wherein all keep their own identity. And hence again the intercommunion of all things according to the power of each; their harmonies and sympathies (which do0 not merge them) and the co-ordinations of the whole universe; the mixture of elements therein and the indestructible ligaments of things; the ceaseless succession of the recreative process in Minds and Souls and in Bodies; for all have rest and movement in That Which, above all rest and all movement, grounds each one in its own natural laws
and moves each one to its own proper movement.
terry, modified 14 Days ago at 1/26/25 1:30 AM
Created 14 Days ago at 1/26/25 1:30 AM
RE: mappo
Posts: 2847 Join Date: 8/7/17 Recent Posts
Figs from Thistles
By Edna St. Vincent Millay
First Fig
My candle burns at both ends;
It will not last the night;
But ah, my foes, and oh, my friends—
It gives a lovely light!
Second Fig
Safe upon the solid rock
the ugly houses stand:
Come and see my shining palace
built upon the sand!
By Edna St. Vincent Millay
First Fig
My candle burns at both ends;
It will not last the night;
But ah, my foes, and oh, my friends—
It gives a lovely light!
Second Fig
Safe upon the solid rock
the ugly houses stand:
Come and see my shining palace
built upon the sand!
terry, modified 14 Days ago at 1/26/25 1:51 AM
Created 14 Days ago at 1/26/25 1:51 AM
RE: mappo
Posts: 2847 Join Date: 8/7/17 Recent Posts
"The More Loving One"
by W.H. Auden
Were all stars to disappear or die,
I should learn to look at an empty sky
And feel its total dark sublime,
Though this might take me a little time.
by W.H. Auden
Were all stars to disappear or die,
I should learn to look at an empty sky
And feel its total dark sublime,
Though this might take me a little time.
terry, modified 14 Days ago at 1/26/25 2:03 AM
Created 14 Days ago at 1/26/25 2:03 AM
RE: mappo
Posts: 2847 Join Date: 8/7/17 Recent Posts
Air and Angels
By John Donne
Twice or thrice had I lov'd thee,
Before I knew thy face or name;
So in a voice, so in a shapeless flame
Angels affect us oft, and worshipp'd be;
Still when, to where thou wert, I came,
Some lovely glorious nothing I did see.
But since my soul, whose child love is,
Takes limbs of flesh, and else could nothing do,
More subtle than the parent is
Love must not be, but take a body too;
And therefore what thou wert, and who,
I bid Love ask, and now
That it assume thy body, I allow,
And fix itself in thy lip, eye, and brow.
Whilst thus to ballast love I thought,
And so more steadily to have gone,
With wares which would sink admiration,
I saw I had love's pinnace overfraught;
Ev'ry thy hair for love to work upon
Is much too much, some fitter must be sought;
For, nor in nothing, nor in things
Extreme, and scatt'ring bright, can love inhere;
Then, as an angel, face, and wings
Of air, not pure as it, yet pure, doth wear,
So thy love may be my love's sphere;
Just such disparity
As is 'twixt air and angels' purity,
'Twixt women's love, and men's, will ever be.
By John Donne
Twice or thrice had I lov'd thee,
Before I knew thy face or name;
So in a voice, so in a shapeless flame
Angels affect us oft, and worshipp'd be;
Still when, to where thou wert, I came,
Some lovely glorious nothing I did see.
But since my soul, whose child love is,
Takes limbs of flesh, and else could nothing do,
More subtle than the parent is
Love must not be, but take a body too;
And therefore what thou wert, and who,
I bid Love ask, and now
That it assume thy body, I allow,
And fix itself in thy lip, eye, and brow.
Whilst thus to ballast love I thought,
And so more steadily to have gone,
With wares which would sink admiration,
I saw I had love's pinnace overfraught;
Ev'ry thy hair for love to work upon
Is much too much, some fitter must be sought;
For, nor in nothing, nor in things
Extreme, and scatt'ring bright, can love inhere;
Then, as an angel, face, and wings
Of air, not pure as it, yet pure, doth wear,
So thy love may be my love's sphere;
Just such disparity
As is 'twixt air and angels' purity,
'Twixt women's love, and men's, will ever be.
terry, modified 14 Days ago at 1/26/25 2:35 AM
Created 14 Days ago at 1/26/25 2:21 AM
RE: mappo
Posts: 2847 Join Date: 8/7/17 Recent Posts
Excerpt From
Ahead of All Parting
Rainer Maria Rilke
THE DUINO ELEGIES
THE FIRST ELEGY
Who, if I cried out, would hear me among the angels’
hierarchies? and even if one of them pressed me
suddenly against his heart: I would be consumed
in that overwhelming existence. For beauty is nothing
but the beginning of terror, which we still are just able to endure,
and we are so awed because it serenely disdains
to annihilate us. Every angel is terrifying.
And so I hold myself back and swallow the call-note
of my dark sobbing. Ah, whom can we ever turn to
in our need? Not angels, not humans,
and already the knowing animals are aware
that we are not really at home in
our interpreted world. Perhaps there remains for us
some tree on a hillside, which every day we can take
into our vision; there remains for us yesterday’s street
and the loyalty of a habit so much at ease
when it stayed with us that it moved in and never left.
Oh and night: there is night, when a wind full of infinite space
gnaws at our faces. Whom would it not remain for—that longed-after,
mildly disillusioning presence, which the solitary heart
so painfully meets. Is it any less difficult for lovers?
But they keep on using each other to hide their own fate.
Don’t you know yet? Fling the emptiness out of your arms
into the spaces we breathe; perhaps the birds
will feel the expanded air with more passionate flying.
Yes—the springtimes needed you. Often a star
was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you
out of the distant past, or as you walked
under an open window, a violin
yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission.
But could you accomplish it? Weren’t you always
distracted by expectation, as if every event
announced a beloved? (Where can you find a place
to keep her, with all the huge strange thoughts inside you
going and coming and often staying all night.)
But when you feel longing, sing of women in love;
for their famous passion is still not immortal. Sing
of women abandoned and desolate (you envy them, almost)
who could love so much more purely than those who were gratified.
Begin again and again the never-attainable praising;
remember: the hero lives on; even his downfall was
merely a pretext for achieving his final birth.
But Nature, spent and exhausted, takes lovers back
into herself, as if there were not enough strength
to create them a second time. Have you imagined
Gaspara Stampa intensely enough so that any girl
deserted by her beloved might be inspired
by that fierce example of soaring, objectless love
and might say to herself, “Perhaps I can be like her”?
Shouldn’t this most ancient of sufferings finally grow
more fruitful for us? Isn’t it time that we lovingly
freed ourselves from the beloved and, quivering, endured:
as the arrow endures the bowstring’s tension, so that
gathered in the snap of release it can be more than
itself. For there is no place where we can remain.
Voices. Voices. Listen, my heart, as only
saints have listened: until the gigantic call lifted them
off the ground; yet they kept on, impossibly,
kneeling and didn’t notice at all:
so complete was their listening. Not that you could endure
God’s voice—far from it. But listen to the voice of the wind
and the ceaseless message that forms itself out of silence.
It is murmuring toward you now from those who died young.
Didn’t their fate, whenever you stepped into a church
in Naples or Rome, quietly come to address you?
Ahead of All Parting
Rainer Maria Rilke
THE DUINO ELEGIES
THE FIRST ELEGY
Who, if I cried out, would hear me among the angels’
hierarchies? and even if one of them pressed me
suddenly against his heart: I would be consumed
in that overwhelming existence. For beauty is nothing
but the beginning of terror, which we still are just able to endure,
and we are so awed because it serenely disdains
to annihilate us. Every angel is terrifying.
And so I hold myself back and swallow the call-note
of my dark sobbing. Ah, whom can we ever turn to
in our need? Not angels, not humans,
and already the knowing animals are aware
that we are not really at home in
our interpreted world. Perhaps there remains for us
some tree on a hillside, which every day we can take
into our vision; there remains for us yesterday’s street
and the loyalty of a habit so much at ease
when it stayed with us that it moved in and never left.
Oh and night: there is night, when a wind full of infinite space
gnaws at our faces. Whom would it not remain for—that longed-after,
mildly disillusioning presence, which the solitary heart
so painfully meets. Is it any less difficult for lovers?
But they keep on using each other to hide their own fate.
Don’t you know yet? Fling the emptiness out of your arms
into the spaces we breathe; perhaps the birds
will feel the expanded air with more passionate flying.
Yes—the springtimes needed you. Often a star
was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you
out of the distant past, or as you walked
under an open window, a violin
yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission.
But could you accomplish it? Weren’t you always
distracted by expectation, as if every event
announced a beloved? (Where can you find a place
to keep her, with all the huge strange thoughts inside you
going and coming and often staying all night.)
But when you feel longing, sing of women in love;
for their famous passion is still not immortal. Sing
of women abandoned and desolate (you envy them, almost)
who could love so much more purely than those who were gratified.
Begin again and again the never-attainable praising;
remember: the hero lives on; even his downfall was
merely a pretext for achieving his final birth.
But Nature, spent and exhausted, takes lovers back
into herself, as if there were not enough strength
to create them a second time. Have you imagined
Gaspara Stampa intensely enough so that any girl
deserted by her beloved might be inspired
by that fierce example of soaring, objectless love
and might say to herself, “Perhaps I can be like her”?
Shouldn’t this most ancient of sufferings finally grow
more fruitful for us? Isn’t it time that we lovingly
freed ourselves from the beloved and, quivering, endured:
as the arrow endures the bowstring’s tension, so that
gathered in the snap of release it can be more than
itself. For there is no place where we can remain.
Voices. Voices. Listen, my heart, as only
saints have listened: until the gigantic call lifted them
off the ground; yet they kept on, impossibly,
kneeling and didn’t notice at all:
so complete was their listening. Not that you could endure
God’s voice—far from it. But listen to the voice of the wind
and the ceaseless message that forms itself out of silence.
It is murmuring toward you now from those who died young.
Didn’t their fate, whenever you stepped into a church
in Naples or Rome, quietly come to address you?
terry, modified 12 Days ago at 1/27/25 5:06 PM
Created 12 Days ago at 1/27/25 5:06 PM
RE: mappo
Posts: 2847 Join Date: 8/7/17 Recent Posts
some…
are caught in the devil’s bargain…
(a map of mappo)
YUNG-MING
Translated by Thomas Cleary
In: The five houses of Zen, 1997
False Cults
BECAUSE OF IGNORANCE of the qualites of inherent nature, people fail to understand the true source. Abandoning enlightenment, they follow the dusts, giving up the root for the branches. They get hung up in the demonic web of being and nonbeing, and they wander in the forest of errors of oneness and difference. Trying to master true emptiness, they become alienated from the nature of reality; based on the arising and disappearance of sense data, they follow the being and nothingness of objects. Clinging to nihilism, confused by eternalism, they pursue the conditional and forget the essential. Mistakenly developing intellectual interpretation, they cultivate practice wrongly.
Some mellow the spirit, nurture energy, and preserve naturalness. Some torture the body, mortifying the flesh, and consider that the ultimate path.
Some cling to nongrasping and stand rooted in the immediate environment. Some suppress the wandering mind in quest of quiet meditation.
Some get rid of feelings and negate phenomena in order to stabilize voidness. Some stick to reflections, get involved in objects, and embrace forms.
Some extinguish the true radiance of the spiritual source. Some eliminate the true causal basis of Buddhist principles.
Some cut off consciousness and freeze the mind, experiencing an inanimate state in consequence. Some clear the mind and ignore matter, abiding as a result in a kind of celestial state in which it is hard to become enlightened.
Some stick to phantasms, clinging to their existence. Some become complete nihilists.
Some eliminate all views and dwell in dark rooms. Some insist on perception and dwell on cognition.
Some consider having awareness to be the form of the true Buddha. Some imitate insentience, like wood or stone.
Some cling to illusion as if it were the same as the ultimate realization, like considering clay in itself to be a jar. Some seek ways of liberation wrongly focused, like seeking water while rejecting waves.
Some hasten outwardly and deludedly produce dream states. Some keep to inwardness and live in solemnity, embracing ignorance.
Some are devoted to oneness and consider everything the same. Some see differences and define individual reality-realms.
Some keep to ignorant nondiscrimination and consider that the Great Way. Some value the notion of voidness and consider denial of good and bad to be true practice.
Some interpret inconceivability to be insensate voidness. Some understand true goodness and subtle form to be really existent.
Some stop mental workings and cut off thoughts, like angels with polluted minds. Some contemplate with awareness and attention, falling within the bounds of intellectual assessment.
Some fail to investigate the nature of illusion thoroughly, interpreting it as the unknown beginning. Some are ignorant of illusory substance and make a religion of nothingness.
Some recognize reflections as realities. Some seek reality while clinging to falsehood.
Some recognize the nature of perception as a living thing. Some point to illusory objects as inanimate.
Some willfully entertain ideas and turn away from silent knowledge. Some cut off thoughts and thus lack enlightened function.
Some lose sight of natural qualities and conceive views of matter and mind. Some rely on ultimate emptiness and develop a nihilistic attitude.
Some cling to universal principle and immediately abandon adornment. Some misunderstand gradual teaching and become fanatical activists.
Some detach from objects by relying on essence but make their attachment to self stronger. Some ignore everything and maintain themselves in ignorance.
Some decide that persons and phenomena are as they are naturally, and fall into the idea that there is no causality. Some cling to the combination of objects and intellect and conceive the notion of collective causality.
Some cling to the mixing of mind and objects, confusing subjective and objective actualities. Some stick to distinguishing absolute and conventional, bound up in the folly of obstruction by knowledge.
Some adhere to unchanging oneness, thus falling into eternalism. Some determine the movement of origin, abiding, decay, and nothingness, thus sinking into nihilism.
Some cling to noncultivation and thus dismiss the ranks of sages. Some say there is realization, and thus turn away from natural reality.
Some delight in the environment and their own persons, thus following the routines of the world. Some reject life and death and thus lose true liberation.
Some, misunderstanding true emptiness, are devoted to causes and obsessed with results. Some, ignorant of ultimate reality, long for enlightenment and despise bewilderment.
Some cling to expedient statements, holding to them as literal truth. Some lose the reality of verbal expression and seek silence apart from words.
Some are devoted to doctrinal methods and disdain spontaneous meditation. Some promote meditative contemplations and repudiate the measuring devices of the complete teaching.
Some compete at being extraordinary while only being concerned with status, suddenly sinking in the sea of knowledge. Some contrive purity to find out hidden secrets, instead getting trapped within a realm of shadows.
Some produce extraordinary intellectual interpretations, gouging flesh and producing wounds. Some dwell on original essential purity but cling to the medicine so it becomes unhealthy.
Some pursue the literature, searching out meanings, and wind up drinking a flood. Some keep to stillness and live in isolation, sitting in the dust of dogma.
Some discuss the formless Great Vehicle with the idea of getting something. Some search for mystic truth outside of things by means of calculating thoughts.
Some reject explanation and conceive the notion of absolute nonverbalization. Some keep explanation and call on the criticism of clinging to the pointing finger.
Some approve of active function and remain at the root source of birth and death. Some concentrate on memorization, dwelling within the limits of conscious thinking.
Some lose the essence of complete awareness by modification and adjustment. Some let be whatever will be, and lack a method of entering the path.
Some initiate energetic physical and mental efforts and linger in contrivance. Some keep to letting be without concern and sink into the bondage of insight.
Some concentrate on focusing thoughts and contemplating diligently, thus losing correct reception. Some imitate uninhibited freedom and give up cultivation.
Some follow binding compulsions while presuming upon intrinsic emptiness. Some cling to bondage and try to eliminate it arbitrarily.
Some are so serious that they develop attachment to religion. Some are so flippant that they ruin the basis of enlightenment.
Some seek so aggressively that they turn away from the original mind. Some slack off and become heedless.
Some lack realism, their speech and their realization differing. Some violate the vehicle of enlightenment by disparity of being and action.
Some keep to tranquillity, dwelling in emptiness, thereby losing the nature of great compassion. Some ignore conditions and reject the temporal, thus missing the door of naturalness.
Some stick to the notion of self, thus being ignorant of the emptiness of person. Some confuse immediate experience and harden their attachment to doctrine.
Some interpret without having faith, increasing false views. Some have faith but no understanding, increasing ignorance.
Some affirm the subjective but deny the objective. Some claim states are deep while knowledge is shallow.
Some get confused about the nature of things by grasping. Some turn away from immediate reality by rejection.
Some violate cause because of detachment. Some forget consequences because of attachment.
Some repudiate reality by denial. Some ruin temporary expedients by affirmation.
Some hate ignorance but thereby turn their backs on the door of immutable knowledge. Some dislike varying states but thereby destroy absorption in the nature of reality.
Some base themselves on the principle of sameness but thereby develop conceit. Some dismiss differentiations, thus destroying the methods of expedient techniques.
Some affirm enlightenment but repudiate the cycle of true teaching. Some deny sentient beings and repudiate the true body of Buddha.
Some stick to basic knowledge and deny expedient wisdom. Some miss the true source and cling to temporary methods.
Some linger in noumenon, sinking into a pit of inaction. Some cling to phenomena, throwing themselves into the net of illusion.
Some annihilate boundaries and obliterate tracks, turning away from the door of dual illumination. Some maintain rectitude, keeping to the center, but lose the sense of expedient technique.
Some cultivate concentration or insight one-sidedly, without balance, thus rotting the sprouts of the path. Some carry out vows all alone, burying the family of the enlightened.
Some work on the practice of inaction to cultivate fabricated enlightenment. Some cling to the nonclinging mind, learning imitation insight.
Some aim for purity, misunderstanding the true nature of defilement. Some dwell on the absolute and lose the basic emptiness of the mundane.
Some practice formless contemplation, blocking true suchness. Some conceive a sense of knowing but thereby turn away from the essence of reality.
Some stick by true explanation but develop literalistic views. Some drink the elixir of immortality yet die young.
Some are so earnest about the principle of completeness that they develop an attitude of clinging attachment; they drink the nectar but turn it into poison.
The foregoing has been a brief notice of one hundred twenty kinds of views and understandings characteristic of false cults. All of them have lost the source and turned away from the essential message.
are caught in the devil’s bargain…
(a map of mappo)
YUNG-MING
Translated by Thomas Cleary
In: The five houses of Zen, 1997
False Cults
BECAUSE OF IGNORANCE of the qualites of inherent nature, people fail to understand the true source. Abandoning enlightenment, they follow the dusts, giving up the root for the branches. They get hung up in the demonic web of being and nonbeing, and they wander in the forest of errors of oneness and difference. Trying to master true emptiness, they become alienated from the nature of reality; based on the arising and disappearance of sense data, they follow the being and nothingness of objects. Clinging to nihilism, confused by eternalism, they pursue the conditional and forget the essential. Mistakenly developing intellectual interpretation, they cultivate practice wrongly.
Some mellow the spirit, nurture energy, and preserve naturalness. Some torture the body, mortifying the flesh, and consider that the ultimate path.
Some cling to nongrasping and stand rooted in the immediate environment. Some suppress the wandering mind in quest of quiet meditation.
Some get rid of feelings and negate phenomena in order to stabilize voidness. Some stick to reflections, get involved in objects, and embrace forms.
Some extinguish the true radiance of the spiritual source. Some eliminate the true causal basis of Buddhist principles.
Some cut off consciousness and freeze the mind, experiencing an inanimate state in consequence. Some clear the mind and ignore matter, abiding as a result in a kind of celestial state in which it is hard to become enlightened.
Some stick to phantasms, clinging to their existence. Some become complete nihilists.
Some eliminate all views and dwell in dark rooms. Some insist on perception and dwell on cognition.
Some consider having awareness to be the form of the true Buddha. Some imitate insentience, like wood or stone.
Some cling to illusion as if it were the same as the ultimate realization, like considering clay in itself to be a jar. Some seek ways of liberation wrongly focused, like seeking water while rejecting waves.
Some hasten outwardly and deludedly produce dream states. Some keep to inwardness and live in solemnity, embracing ignorance.
Some are devoted to oneness and consider everything the same. Some see differences and define individual reality-realms.
Some keep to ignorant nondiscrimination and consider that the Great Way. Some value the notion of voidness and consider denial of good and bad to be true practice.
Some interpret inconceivability to be insensate voidness. Some understand true goodness and subtle form to be really existent.
Some stop mental workings and cut off thoughts, like angels with polluted minds. Some contemplate with awareness and attention, falling within the bounds of intellectual assessment.
Some fail to investigate the nature of illusion thoroughly, interpreting it as the unknown beginning. Some are ignorant of illusory substance and make a religion of nothingness.
Some recognize reflections as realities. Some seek reality while clinging to falsehood.
Some recognize the nature of perception as a living thing. Some point to illusory objects as inanimate.
Some willfully entertain ideas and turn away from silent knowledge. Some cut off thoughts and thus lack enlightened function.
Some lose sight of natural qualities and conceive views of matter and mind. Some rely on ultimate emptiness and develop a nihilistic attitude.
Some cling to universal principle and immediately abandon adornment. Some misunderstand gradual teaching and become fanatical activists.
Some detach from objects by relying on essence but make their attachment to self stronger. Some ignore everything and maintain themselves in ignorance.
Some decide that persons and phenomena are as they are naturally, and fall into the idea that there is no causality. Some cling to the combination of objects and intellect and conceive the notion of collective causality.
Some cling to the mixing of mind and objects, confusing subjective and objective actualities. Some stick to distinguishing absolute and conventional, bound up in the folly of obstruction by knowledge.
Some adhere to unchanging oneness, thus falling into eternalism. Some determine the movement of origin, abiding, decay, and nothingness, thus sinking into nihilism.
Some cling to noncultivation and thus dismiss the ranks of sages. Some say there is realization, and thus turn away from natural reality.
Some delight in the environment and their own persons, thus following the routines of the world. Some reject life and death and thus lose true liberation.
Some, misunderstanding true emptiness, are devoted to causes and obsessed with results. Some, ignorant of ultimate reality, long for enlightenment and despise bewilderment.
Some cling to expedient statements, holding to them as literal truth. Some lose the reality of verbal expression and seek silence apart from words.
Some are devoted to doctrinal methods and disdain spontaneous meditation. Some promote meditative contemplations and repudiate the measuring devices of the complete teaching.
Some compete at being extraordinary while only being concerned with status, suddenly sinking in the sea of knowledge. Some contrive purity to find out hidden secrets, instead getting trapped within a realm of shadows.
Some produce extraordinary intellectual interpretations, gouging flesh and producing wounds. Some dwell on original essential purity but cling to the medicine so it becomes unhealthy.
Some pursue the literature, searching out meanings, and wind up drinking a flood. Some keep to stillness and live in isolation, sitting in the dust of dogma.
Some discuss the formless Great Vehicle with the idea of getting something. Some search for mystic truth outside of things by means of calculating thoughts.
Some reject explanation and conceive the notion of absolute nonverbalization. Some keep explanation and call on the criticism of clinging to the pointing finger.
Some approve of active function and remain at the root source of birth and death. Some concentrate on memorization, dwelling within the limits of conscious thinking.
Some lose the essence of complete awareness by modification and adjustment. Some let be whatever will be, and lack a method of entering the path.
Some initiate energetic physical and mental efforts and linger in contrivance. Some keep to letting be without concern and sink into the bondage of insight.
Some concentrate on focusing thoughts and contemplating diligently, thus losing correct reception. Some imitate uninhibited freedom and give up cultivation.
Some follow binding compulsions while presuming upon intrinsic emptiness. Some cling to bondage and try to eliminate it arbitrarily.
Some are so serious that they develop attachment to religion. Some are so flippant that they ruin the basis of enlightenment.
Some seek so aggressively that they turn away from the original mind. Some slack off and become heedless.
Some lack realism, their speech and their realization differing. Some violate the vehicle of enlightenment by disparity of being and action.
Some keep to tranquillity, dwelling in emptiness, thereby losing the nature of great compassion. Some ignore conditions and reject the temporal, thus missing the door of naturalness.
Some stick to the notion of self, thus being ignorant of the emptiness of person. Some confuse immediate experience and harden their attachment to doctrine.
Some interpret without having faith, increasing false views. Some have faith but no understanding, increasing ignorance.
Some affirm the subjective but deny the objective. Some claim states are deep while knowledge is shallow.
Some get confused about the nature of things by grasping. Some turn away from immediate reality by rejection.
Some violate cause because of detachment. Some forget consequences because of attachment.
Some repudiate reality by denial. Some ruin temporary expedients by affirmation.
Some hate ignorance but thereby turn their backs on the door of immutable knowledge. Some dislike varying states but thereby destroy absorption in the nature of reality.
Some base themselves on the principle of sameness but thereby develop conceit. Some dismiss differentiations, thus destroying the methods of expedient techniques.
Some affirm enlightenment but repudiate the cycle of true teaching. Some deny sentient beings and repudiate the true body of Buddha.
Some stick to basic knowledge and deny expedient wisdom. Some miss the true source and cling to temporary methods.
Some linger in noumenon, sinking into a pit of inaction. Some cling to phenomena, throwing themselves into the net of illusion.
Some annihilate boundaries and obliterate tracks, turning away from the door of dual illumination. Some maintain rectitude, keeping to the center, but lose the sense of expedient technique.
Some cultivate concentration or insight one-sidedly, without balance, thus rotting the sprouts of the path. Some carry out vows all alone, burying the family of the enlightened.
Some work on the practice of inaction to cultivate fabricated enlightenment. Some cling to the nonclinging mind, learning imitation insight.
Some aim for purity, misunderstanding the true nature of defilement. Some dwell on the absolute and lose the basic emptiness of the mundane.
Some practice formless contemplation, blocking true suchness. Some conceive a sense of knowing but thereby turn away from the essence of reality.
Some stick by true explanation but develop literalistic views. Some drink the elixir of immortality yet die young.
Some are so earnest about the principle of completeness that they develop an attitude of clinging attachment; they drink the nectar but turn it into poison.
The foregoing has been a brief notice of one hundred twenty kinds of views and understandings characteristic of false cults. All of them have lost the source and turned away from the essential message.
terry, modified 11 Days ago at 1/28/25 3:08 PM
Created 11 Days ago at 1/28/25 3:08 PM
RE: mappo
Posts: 2847 Join Date: 8/7/17 Recent Posts
from
ON MAJESTY AND BEAUTY
The Kitâb Al-Jalâl Wa-l Jamâl of Muhyiddin Ibn 'Arabi
translated by Rabia Terri Harris
To proceed:
The matter of jalal and jamal, the Divine Majesty and the Divine Beauty, has attracted the attention of the witnesses of truth, the Knowers of Allah among the Sufis. Each of them has spoken of these two as was appropriate to his own state. Most, however, have connected the condition of intimacy with Beauty and the condition of awe with Majesty, and things are not as they have said.
Or rather, to a certain extent things are just as they have said – that is, Majesty and Beauty are indeed two attributes of Allah and awe and intimacy two attributes of human beings, and when the souls of the Knowers witness Majesty they feel awe and diminution, while when they witness Beauty they feel intimacy and elation. Because this is so, the Knowers have equated Majesty with Allah's overpowering force and Beauty with His mercy; they came to this decision because of what they experienced in themselves.
I wish, if Allah so wills, to clarify the realities of the two to the extent that Allah enables me to explain them.
I say, first, that Allah's Majesty is a relation that proceeds from Him to Him, and He has prevented us from true knowledge of it. Beauty, though, is a relation that proceeds from Him to us, and it is this which grants us any knowledge we may possess of Him, as well as all revelations, contemplations, and spiritual states. Among us, it has two modalities: awe and intimacy. That is because this Beauty has an exalted aspect and a related aspect. The exalted aspect is called the Majesty of Beauty, and it is this of which the Knowers speak and which appears to them, though they believe that they are speaking of the first Majesty we mentioned.
For us, this Majesty of Beauty has been linked to the state of intimacy, and the closer, related aspect of Beauty has been linked to the state of awe.
When the Majesty of Beauty manifests to us, we are drawn intimately close. Were it not for this, we would be destroyed, for nothing can continue to exist in the face of Majesty and awe together. Thus Majesty in Him is countered by intimacy in us so that we may keep our balance in contemplation and maintain a mental awareness of what we see, rather than falling into distracted terror.
When Beauty manifests to us here – and Beauty is the welcoming openness of the Truth towards us while Majesty is its unattainable exaltation over us – then His expansiveness in
His Beauty is countered by our state of awe. For were one expansiveness to be met with another it would lead to unacceptable behaviour, and unacceptable behaviour in the Divine Presence is the cause of expulsion and alienation. On account of this, one of the witnesses of truth who knew its importance said, "Seat yourself upon the prayer-mat (bisât) and beware of presumption (inbisât)."
Allah's Majesty acting upon us prevents us from unacceptable behaviour in the Divine Presence, as likewise does our awe at His Beauty and expansiveness toward us.
ON MAJESTY AND BEAUTY
The Kitâb Al-Jalâl Wa-l Jamâl of Muhyiddin Ibn 'Arabi
translated by Rabia Terri Harris
To proceed:
The matter of jalal and jamal, the Divine Majesty and the Divine Beauty, has attracted the attention of the witnesses of truth, the Knowers of Allah among the Sufis. Each of them has spoken of these two as was appropriate to his own state. Most, however, have connected the condition of intimacy with Beauty and the condition of awe with Majesty, and things are not as they have said.
Or rather, to a certain extent things are just as they have said – that is, Majesty and Beauty are indeed two attributes of Allah and awe and intimacy two attributes of human beings, and when the souls of the Knowers witness Majesty they feel awe and diminution, while when they witness Beauty they feel intimacy and elation. Because this is so, the Knowers have equated Majesty with Allah's overpowering force and Beauty with His mercy; they came to this decision because of what they experienced in themselves.
I wish, if Allah so wills, to clarify the realities of the two to the extent that Allah enables me to explain them.
I say, first, that Allah's Majesty is a relation that proceeds from Him to Him, and He has prevented us from true knowledge of it. Beauty, though, is a relation that proceeds from Him to us, and it is this which grants us any knowledge we may possess of Him, as well as all revelations, contemplations, and spiritual states. Among us, it has two modalities: awe and intimacy. That is because this Beauty has an exalted aspect and a related aspect. The exalted aspect is called the Majesty of Beauty, and it is this of which the Knowers speak and which appears to them, though they believe that they are speaking of the first Majesty we mentioned.
For us, this Majesty of Beauty has been linked to the state of intimacy, and the closer, related aspect of Beauty has been linked to the state of awe.
When the Majesty of Beauty manifests to us, we are drawn intimately close. Were it not for this, we would be destroyed, for nothing can continue to exist in the face of Majesty and awe together. Thus Majesty in Him is countered by intimacy in us so that we may keep our balance in contemplation and maintain a mental awareness of what we see, rather than falling into distracted terror.
When Beauty manifests to us here – and Beauty is the welcoming openness of the Truth towards us while Majesty is its unattainable exaltation over us – then His expansiveness in
His Beauty is countered by our state of awe. For were one expansiveness to be met with another it would lead to unacceptable behaviour, and unacceptable behaviour in the Divine Presence is the cause of expulsion and alienation. On account of this, one of the witnesses of truth who knew its importance said, "Seat yourself upon the prayer-mat (bisât) and beware of presumption (inbisât)."
Allah's Majesty acting upon us prevents us from unacceptable behaviour in the Divine Presence, as likewise does our awe at His Beauty and expansiveness toward us.
terry, modified 11 Days ago at 1/28/25 3:25 PM
Created 11 Days ago at 1/28/25 3:25 PM
RE: mappo
Posts: 2847 Join Date: 8/7/17 Recent Posts
“A man, never having seen water, is thrown blindfolded into it, and feels it.
When the bandage is removed, he knows what it is.
Until then he only knew it by its effect.
(Rumi, Fihi Ma Fihi)”
When the bandage is removed, he knows what it is.
Until then he only knew it by its effect.
(Rumi, Fihi Ma Fihi)”
terry, modified 11 Days ago at 1/28/25 3:53 PM
Created 11 Days ago at 1/28/25 3:53 PM
RE: mappo
Posts: 2847 Join Date: 8/7/17 Recent Posts
Excerpt From
The Sufis
Idries Shah
Taken on their own, some of the statements of Ibn el-Arabi are startling. In Bezels of Wisdom, he says that God is never to be seen in an immaterial form. ‘The sight of God in woman is the most perfect of all.’ Love poetry, as with everything else to the Sufi, is capable of reflecting a complete and coherent experience of divinity, while concurrently fulfilling various other functions. Every Sufi experience is an experience in depth and in qualitative infinity. It is only to the ordinary man or woman that a word has only one meaning, or an experience less than a large number of equally valid, whole significances. This multiplicity of being is something which, although accepted as a contention by non-Sufis, is frequently forgotten by them when they deal with Sufi material. At best they can generally appreciate that there is an allegory — which means to them just one alternative meaning.
To the theologians, committed to a literal acceptance of divine formalism, Ibn el-Arabi bluntly says that ‘Angels are the powers hidden in the faculties and organs of man.’ It is the Sufi’s objective to activate these organs.
The Sufis
Idries Shah
Taken on their own, some of the statements of Ibn el-Arabi are startling. In Bezels of Wisdom, he says that God is never to be seen in an immaterial form. ‘The sight of God in woman is the most perfect of all.’ Love poetry, as with everything else to the Sufi, is capable of reflecting a complete and coherent experience of divinity, while concurrently fulfilling various other functions. Every Sufi experience is an experience in depth and in qualitative infinity. It is only to the ordinary man or woman that a word has only one meaning, or an experience less than a large number of equally valid, whole significances. This multiplicity of being is something which, although accepted as a contention by non-Sufis, is frequently forgotten by them when they deal with Sufi material. At best they can generally appreciate that there is an allegory — which means to them just one alternative meaning.
To the theologians, committed to a literal acceptance of divine formalism, Ibn el-Arabi bluntly says that ‘Angels are the powers hidden in the faculties and organs of man.’ It is the Sufi’s objective to activate these organs.
terry, modified 8 Days ago at 2/1/25 1:23 AM
Created 8 Days ago at 2/1/25 1:23 AM
RE: mappo
Posts: 2847 Join Date: 8/7/17 Recent Posts
from
THE CONFERENCE OF THE BIRDS Farid ud-din Attar
Translated by Afham Darbandi and Dick Davis
London: Penguin, 1984 (~1177)
Abbasseh’s description of the Self
One night Abbasseh said: ‘The world could be
Thronged with wild infidels and blasphemy,
Or it could be a place of pious works,
Filled with the faithful, keen as zealous Turks.
Instead the prophets came -- that infidel
The Self must choose between the faith and hell
(One seemed too difficult, one terrified --
How could the indecisive soul decide?).
Beneath the Self’s reign we are infidels
And nourish blasphemy in all our cells;
Its life is stubborn, strong, intractable --
To kill it seems well-nigh impossible.
It draws its strength from both alternatives;
No wonder it so obstinately lives.
But if the heart can rule, then day and night
This dog will labour for the heart’s delight,
And when the heart rides out he sprints away
Eager to flush his noble master’s prey.
Whoever chains this dog will find that he
Commands the lion of eternity;
Whoever binds this dog, his sandals’ dust
Surpasses all the councils of the just.’
A king questions a sufi
A ragged pilgrim of the sufis’ Way
By chance met with a king, and heard him say:
‘Who’s better, me or you?’ The old man said:
‘Silence, your words are empty as your head!
Although self-praise is not our normal rule
(The man who loves himself is still a fool).
I’ll tell you, since I must, that one like me
Exceeds a thousand like your majesty.
Since you find no delight in faith -- alas,
Your Self has made of you, my lord, an ass
And sat on you, and set its load on you --
You’re just its slave in everything you do;
You wear its halter, follow its commands,
A no-one, left completely in its hands.
My study is to reach Truth’s inmost shrine --
And I am not my Self’s ass, he is mine;
Now since the beast I ride on rides on you,
That I’m your better is quite plainly true.
You love the Self -- it's lit in you a fire
Of nagging lust, insatiable desire,
A blaze that burns your vigour, wastes your heart,
Leaving infirmity in every part --
Consuming all your strength, till deaf and blind
You’re old, forgetful, rambling in your mind.
This man, and hundreds like him, constitute
The mighty phalanx of the Absolute;
When such an army charges you will find
You and your puny Self are left behind.
How you delight in this dog’s partnership --
But it’s the dog, not you, that cracks the whip!
The forces of the king will separate
This dog and you -- why not anticipate
Their order and forestall the pain? If though
You weep that here on earth you cannot know
Enough of this audacious infidel --
Don’t worry; you’ll be comrades down in hell.
THE CONFERENCE OF THE BIRDS Farid ud-din Attar
Translated by Afham Darbandi and Dick Davis
London: Penguin, 1984 (~1177)
Abbasseh’s description of the Self
One night Abbasseh said: ‘The world could be
Thronged with wild infidels and blasphemy,
Or it could be a place of pious works,
Filled with the faithful, keen as zealous Turks.
Instead the prophets came -- that infidel
The Self must choose between the faith and hell
(One seemed too difficult, one terrified --
How could the indecisive soul decide?).
Beneath the Self’s reign we are infidels
And nourish blasphemy in all our cells;
Its life is stubborn, strong, intractable --
To kill it seems well-nigh impossible.
It draws its strength from both alternatives;
No wonder it so obstinately lives.
But if the heart can rule, then day and night
This dog will labour for the heart’s delight,
And when the heart rides out he sprints away
Eager to flush his noble master’s prey.
Whoever chains this dog will find that he
Commands the lion of eternity;
Whoever binds this dog, his sandals’ dust
Surpasses all the councils of the just.’
A king questions a sufi
A ragged pilgrim of the sufis’ Way
By chance met with a king, and heard him say:
‘Who’s better, me or you?’ The old man said:
‘Silence, your words are empty as your head!
Although self-praise is not our normal rule
(The man who loves himself is still a fool).
I’ll tell you, since I must, that one like me
Exceeds a thousand like your majesty.
Since you find no delight in faith -- alas,
Your Self has made of you, my lord, an ass
And sat on you, and set its load on you --
You’re just its slave in everything you do;
You wear its halter, follow its commands,
A no-one, left completely in its hands.
My study is to reach Truth’s inmost shrine --
And I am not my Self’s ass, he is mine;
Now since the beast I ride on rides on you,
That I’m your better is quite plainly true.
You love the Self -- it's lit in you a fire
Of nagging lust, insatiable desire,
A blaze that burns your vigour, wastes your heart,
Leaving infirmity in every part --
Consuming all your strength, till deaf and blind
You’re old, forgetful, rambling in your mind.
This man, and hundreds like him, constitute
The mighty phalanx of the Absolute;
When such an army charges you will find
You and your puny Self are left behind.
How you delight in this dog’s partnership --
But it’s the dog, not you, that cracks the whip!
The forces of the king will separate
This dog and you -- why not anticipate
Their order and forestall the pain? If though
You weep that here on earth you cannot know
Enough of this audacious infidel --
Don’t worry; you’ll be comrades down in hell.
terry, modified 8 Days ago at 2/1/25 2:24 AM
Created 8 Days ago at 2/1/25 2:24 AM
RE: mappo
Posts: 2847 Join Date: 8/7/17 Recent Posts
op cit
A bird who cannot leave his beloved
“Great hoopoe,” said another bird, “my love
Has loaded me with chains, I cannot move. T
his bandit, Love, confronted me and stole
My intellect, my heart, my inmost soul --
The image of her face is like a thief
Who fires the harvest and leaves only grief.
Without her I endure the pangs of hell,
Raving and cursing like an infidel;
How can I travel when my heart must stay
Lapped here in blood? And on that weary Way,
How many empty valleys lie ahead,
How many horrors wait for us? I dread
One moment absent from her lovely face;
How could I seek the Way and leave this place?
My pain exceeds all cure or remedy;
I’ve passed beyond both faith and blasphemy --
My blasphemy and faith are love for her;
My soul is her abject idolater --
And though companionless I weep and groan,
My friend is sorrow; I am not alone.
My love has brought me countless miseries,
But in her hair lie countless mysteries;
Without her face, blood chokes me, I am drowned,
I’m dust blown aimlessly across the ground.
Believe me, everything I say is true --
This is my state; now tell me what to do.”
The hoopoe answers him
The hoopoe said: “You are the prisoner of
Appearances, a superficial love;
This love is not divine; it is mere greed
For flesh -- an animal, instinctive need.
To love what is deficient, trapped in time,
Is more than foolishness, it is a crime --
And blasphemous the struggle to evade
That perfect beauty which can never fade.
You would compare a face of blood and bile
To the full moon -- yet what could be more vile
In all the world than that same face when blood
And bile are gone? -- it is no more than mud.
This is the fleshly beauty you adore;
This is its being, this and nothing more.
How long then will you seek for beauty here?
Seek the unseen, and beauty will appear.
When that last veil is lifted neither men
Nor all their glory will be seen again,
The universe will fade -- this mighty show
In all its majesty and pomp will go,
And those who loved appearances will prove
Each other’s enemies and forfeit love,
While those who loved the absent, unseen Friend
Will enter that pure love which knows no end.
Shebli and a man whose friend had died
Once Shebli saw a poor wretch weeping. ‘Why
These tears?’ the sheikh inquired. ‘What makes you cry?’
He said: ‘O sheikh, I had a friend whose face
Refreshed my soul with its young, candid grace --
But yesterday he died; since then I’m dead
There’s nothing that could dry the tears I shed.’
The sheikh replied: ‘And is that all you miss?
Don’t grieve, my friend, you’re worth much more than this.
Choose now another friend who cannot die --
For His death you will never have to cry.
The friend from who, through death, we must soon part
Brings only sorrow to the baffled heart;
Whoever loves the world’s bright surfaces
Endures in love a hundred miseries;
Too soon the surface flees his groping hand,
And sorrow comes which no man can withstand.’
A merchant who sold his favourite slave
There was a merchant once who had slave
As sweet as sugar -- how did he behave?
He sold that girl beyond comparison --
And O, how he regretted what he’d done!
He offered her new master heaps of gold
And would have paid her price a thousandfold;
His heart in flames, his poor head in a whirl,
He begged her owner to resell the girl.
But he was adamant and would not sell;
The merchant paced the street, his mind in hell,
And groaned: ‘I cannot bear this searing pain --
But anyone who gives his love for gain,
Who stitches tight the eyes of common-sense
Deserves as much for his improvidence --
To think that on that fatal market-day
I tricked myself and gave the best away.’
Your breaths are jewels, each atom is a guide
To lead you to the Truth, and glorified
From head to foot with his great wealth you stand;
O, if you could entirely understand
Your absence from Him, then you would not wait
Inured by patience to your wretched fate --
God nourished you in love and holy pride,
But ignorance detains you from His side.
A bird who cannot leave his beloved
“Great hoopoe,” said another bird, “my love
Has loaded me with chains, I cannot move. T
his bandit, Love, confronted me and stole
My intellect, my heart, my inmost soul --
The image of her face is like a thief
Who fires the harvest and leaves only grief.
Without her I endure the pangs of hell,
Raving and cursing like an infidel;
How can I travel when my heart must stay
Lapped here in blood? And on that weary Way,
How many empty valleys lie ahead,
How many horrors wait for us? I dread
One moment absent from her lovely face;
How could I seek the Way and leave this place?
My pain exceeds all cure or remedy;
I’ve passed beyond both faith and blasphemy --
My blasphemy and faith are love for her;
My soul is her abject idolater --
And though companionless I weep and groan,
My friend is sorrow; I am not alone.
My love has brought me countless miseries,
But in her hair lie countless mysteries;
Without her face, blood chokes me, I am drowned,
I’m dust blown aimlessly across the ground.
Believe me, everything I say is true --
This is my state; now tell me what to do.”
The hoopoe answers him
The hoopoe said: “You are the prisoner of
Appearances, a superficial love;
This love is not divine; it is mere greed
For flesh -- an animal, instinctive need.
To love what is deficient, trapped in time,
Is more than foolishness, it is a crime --
And blasphemous the struggle to evade
That perfect beauty which can never fade.
You would compare a face of blood and bile
To the full moon -- yet what could be more vile
In all the world than that same face when blood
And bile are gone? -- it is no more than mud.
This is the fleshly beauty you adore;
This is its being, this and nothing more.
How long then will you seek for beauty here?
Seek the unseen, and beauty will appear.
When that last veil is lifted neither men
Nor all their glory will be seen again,
The universe will fade -- this mighty show
In all its majesty and pomp will go,
And those who loved appearances will prove
Each other’s enemies and forfeit love,
While those who loved the absent, unseen Friend
Will enter that pure love which knows no end.
Shebli and a man whose friend had died
Once Shebli saw a poor wretch weeping. ‘Why
These tears?’ the sheikh inquired. ‘What makes you cry?’
He said: ‘O sheikh, I had a friend whose face
Refreshed my soul with its young, candid grace --
But yesterday he died; since then I’m dead
There’s nothing that could dry the tears I shed.’
The sheikh replied: ‘And is that all you miss?
Don’t grieve, my friend, you’re worth much more than this.
Choose now another friend who cannot die --
For His death you will never have to cry.
The friend from who, through death, we must soon part
Brings only sorrow to the baffled heart;
Whoever loves the world’s bright surfaces
Endures in love a hundred miseries;
Too soon the surface flees his groping hand,
And sorrow comes which no man can withstand.’
A merchant who sold his favourite slave
There was a merchant once who had slave
As sweet as sugar -- how did he behave?
He sold that girl beyond comparison --
And O, how he regretted what he’d done!
He offered her new master heaps of gold
And would have paid her price a thousandfold;
His heart in flames, his poor head in a whirl,
He begged her owner to resell the girl.
But he was adamant and would not sell;
The merchant paced the street, his mind in hell,
And groaned: ‘I cannot bear this searing pain --
But anyone who gives his love for gain,
Who stitches tight the eyes of common-sense
Deserves as much for his improvidence --
To think that on that fatal market-day
I tricked myself and gave the best away.’
Your breaths are jewels, each atom is a guide
To lead you to the Truth, and glorified
From head to foot with his great wealth you stand;
O, if you could entirely understand
Your absence from Him, then you would not wait
Inured by patience to your wretched fate --
God nourished you in love and holy pride,
But ignorance detains you from His side.
Papa Che Dusko, modified 6 Days ago at 2/2/25 7:15 PM
Created 6 Days ago at 2/2/25 7:15 PM
RE: mappo
Posts: 3346 Join Date: 3/1/20 Recent Poststerry, modified 15 Hours ago at 2/8/25 1:50 PM
Created 15 Hours ago at 2/8/25 1:50 PM
RE: mappo
Posts: 2847 Join Date: 8/7/17 Recent Posts
from radical zen, trans yoel hoffman
12.
Joshu went to the lecture hall and preached to the people: "This matter is absolutely clear. Even the greatest ones cannot break away from it. When I was at Master Isan's, a monk said, 'What does it mean, "Our founder came from the west" [Ie., what is the meaning of Zen]?' Isan said, 'Bring me that chair.' If one is a master, this is how one must relate to the people, through the core of the matter."
"If one is a master, this is how one must relate to the people, through the core of the matter."
At that, a monk asked, "What does it mean, 'Our founder came from the west'?"
Joshu said, "The oak tree in the front yard."
The monk said, "Please do not show the people the object."
Joshiusaid, "I will not."
The monk repeated his question: "What does it mean, 'Our founder came from the west'?"
Joshu said, "The oak tree in the front yard."
NOTE: "The oak tree in the front yard" must have been what Joshu happened to see when asked about "the meaning of Zen." The monk suggests that Joshu is taken in by the object in sight. But Joshu's answer was simply that moment's situation. At another time, in another place, it might be a "pen" (right now in my hand) or any other "here, now."
12.
Joshu went to the lecture hall and preached to the people: "This matter is absolutely clear. Even the greatest ones cannot break away from it. When I was at Master Isan's, a monk said, 'What does it mean, "Our founder came from the west" [Ie., what is the meaning of Zen]?' Isan said, 'Bring me that chair.' If one is a master, this is how one must relate to the people, through the core of the matter."
"If one is a master, this is how one must relate to the people, through the core of the matter."
At that, a monk asked, "What does it mean, 'Our founder came from the west'?"
Joshu said, "The oak tree in the front yard."
The monk said, "Please do not show the people the object."
Joshiusaid, "I will not."
The monk repeated his question: "What does it mean, 'Our founder came from the west'?"
Joshu said, "The oak tree in the front yard."
NOTE: "The oak tree in the front yard" must have been what Joshu happened to see when asked about "the meaning of Zen." The monk suggests that Joshu is taken in by the object in sight. But Joshu's answer was simply that moment's situation. At another time, in another place, it might be a "pen" (right now in my hand) or any other "here, now."