RE: Fastest Path to Stream Entry? Seeking Advice on Approach & Timelines

Ben Hoffman, modified 5 Days ago at 2/3/25 5:25 PM
Created 5 Days ago at 2/3/25 5:25 PM

Fastest Path to Stream Entry? Seeking Advice on Approach & Timelines

Posts: 2 Join Date: 2/3/25 Recent Posts
Hey everyone,I’m looking for the most direct and effective practice for achieving stream entry. If you had five years to reach stream entry and beyond, which practice would you choose and why?For more context, I’d love to hear about common timelines for stream entry and further paths. If I went from being an absolute beginner to attending a three-month retreat right now, what could I reasonably achieve? Is it possible for an absolute beginner to attain stream entry within a single retreat? Could someone theoretically make the same progress in a year-long retreat as a meditator who practices off and on over several years?I believe I’ve picked a solid practice in Mahasi-style noting. I’m planning to take an online meditation course soon, followed by an in-person retreat with Sirimangalo. My goal is to really speedrun this, as I have health issues and can’t afford to waste time.Any insights, experiences, or recommendations would be greatly appreciated!Thanks!
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Bahiya Baby, modified 5 Days ago at 2/3/25 6:23 PM
Created 5 Days ago at 2/3/25 6:12 PM

RE: Fastest Path to Stream Entry? Seeking Advice on Approach & Timelines

Posts: 964 Join Date: 5/26/23 Recent Posts
My technical reply...

If your noting is good enough to transcend labelling and move into direct noticing (or direct noticing of three characteristics) then you have everything you need to get beyond second path. 

Until you have that it's debatable whether or not your ship is actually getting off the ground, if the ship ain't off the ground you're not going anywhere.

If you have momentary concentration, time to meditate and guides who are themselves already attained then you can get the early paths quickly... if you've got the "Hutzpah" for it. 

But...

My brutally honest reply... you're not actually in control and you don't really get to decide and coming to terms with this is a fairly significant part of the meditative journey. I've just been studying Oedipus lately. The Oedipal stories are about people wrestling with their fate, Oedipus himself curses the horror of his fate but also recognizes that he cannot avoid it. This is what the late paths are all about. They cannot be gamed, cannot be measured, cannot be manipulated, it cannot be done. That's the lesson and based on the language you've used and how you're communicating, I suspect, one way or another, the fates will not spare you from having to learn it. 

The avoidance of fate, the avoidance of reality, the avoidance of this experience, the avoidance of the way things are right now, this is the cause of our suffering. The recognition of this suffering, of our fate, reality, experience, this is the path to the end of suffering. 
shargrol, modified 5 Days ago at 2/3/25 8:07 PM
Created 5 Days ago at 2/3/25 8:07 PM

RE: Fastest Path to Stream Entry? Seeking Advice on Approach & Timelines

Posts: 2829 Join Date: 2/8/16 Recent Posts
Here's a question for you, if I told you that you could NEVER have stream entry but you could get a second wish, then what would that be?

If you were a beginner and went on a three month retreat, most likely you would fail. Just like if a beginning runner signed up for a marathon.

It's much more important to understand where you are now with understanding and practice and then just make the next step. The path will figure itself out as long as you keep making good next steps.

How long can you sit right now? How long could you alternate sitting and walking practice? How many days in a row have you practiced?  Give us some more info about your current practice.
Adi Vader, modified 5 Days ago at 2/4/25 5:39 AM
Created 5 Days ago at 2/4/25 5:39 AM

RE: Fastest Path to Stream Entry? Seeking Advice on Approach & Timelines

Posts: 416 Join Date: 6/29/20 Recent Posts
Hi.

I have known people who made rapid progress in their practice.

But there is no point in comparing to other people, we have to think in terms of what is an optimal approach for us and then work in a very systematic and methodical way strictly following a well designed instruction set. The one common theme that I believe determines whether a yogi makes optimal progress is how willing they are to spend some very limited amount of time on theory and then set fascination with theory aside and apply themselves to practice instructions. In principle this seems like an easy thing to do, but in its 'doing' its devilishly difficult.

Regarding  the Mahasi noting practice you have picked up, I have heard anecdotes of 20% to 30% people getting stream entry in a single 3 month retreat. These are usually the people who already have a modest daily practice of their own, and then go on the retreat and actually follow the instructions in a very methodical and technique focused way. Taking feedback from interviews very seriously. But I dont know whether this figure is actually true. Its just anecdotes.

Some people have minds that are more suitable to samadhi first, some people are more suitable to insight practice first. So whether this  number will mean anything for you and whether a Mahasi style practice is the right practice for you are questions that you will only get answers to as you move ahead in your journey.

​​​​​​​Best of luck.
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Martin V, modified 4 Days ago at 2/4/25 10:34 AM
Created 4 Days ago at 2/4/25 10:34 AM

RE: Fastest Path to Stream Entry? Seeking Advice on Approach & Timelines

Posts: 1078 Join Date: 4/25/20 Recent Posts
If I had five years to reach stream entry, the first thing I would do is ask some questions about stream entry.

​​​​​​​Most beginners who gun for SE will drop out in months. For those who keep going, it's a lot of work, with quite a few risks, and still the majority will not make it. So, it's not easy and it's not guaranteed, over even likely. That being the case, I would want to check out what SE has to offer. If there is something wrong with life now, will SE fix it? If there is nothing much wrong with life now, will SE enhance it? Not everyone even likes SE, and few are satisfied by it. Are there other, easier, more reliable ways to get the things that I hope SE will deliver?

If you find that you enjoy meditation, and that you get benefits from it right away, then you probably don't need to worry about all of this, as you would be meditating whether or not SE was a possibility. But if your only motivation is getting SE, then it makes sense to be sure that you want it. 

If you are interested in those sorts of questions, I can post some links to places where you can investigate these questions. The investigation itself is quite a lot of work. 
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 3 Days ago at 2/5/25 4:46 PM
Created 3 Days ago at 2/5/25 4:43 PM

RE: Fastest Path to Stream Entry? Seeking Advice on Approach & Timelines

Posts: 3346 Join Date: 3/1/20 Recent Posts
Hey Ben, have you had anything that resembles an "Arising and Passing Event" in your life (Check MCTB for description)? If so ... then ... my hunch is yes you could gun down that SE within a few years of daily practice by really focusing only on the matter-of-fact experience and not falling into some wishful thinking and whatnot. Such a path is very bumpy and can lead to emotional shitstorms!!! So make sure you have support in terms of the practice and if necessary some psychological help! If you want to gun things down successfully you gotta be prepped! So do not jump before saying "Hop" emoticon 
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Matt Jon Rousseau, modified 2 Days ago at 2/6/25 8:29 AM
Created 2 Days ago at 2/6/25 8:29 AM

RE: Fastest Path to Stream Entry? Seeking Advice on Approach & Timelines

Posts: 258 Join Date: 5/1/22 Recent Posts
Oh shit. I have been meditationg for a couple years . No AP even.
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Chris M, modified 2 Days ago at 2/6/25 8:56 AM
Created 2 Days ago at 2/6/25 8:54 AM

RE: Fastest Path to Stream Entry? Seeking Advice on Approach & Timelines

Posts: 5611 Join Date: 1/26/13 Recent Posts
The need for speed is misguided. Meditation practice doesn't follow a predictable path for everyone. Comparing the time it takes to get this or that leads to further comparison, potential disappointment, and even failure. I suggest that as a first worthwhile practice, you learn to drop it. Let go of it. Observe the desire, the grasping, and see it for what it is.

​​​​​​​emoticon
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Martin V, modified 2 Days ago at 2/6/25 10:39 AM
Created 2 Days ago at 2/6/25 10:39 AM

RE: Fastest Path to Stream Entry? Seeking Advice on Approach & Timelines

Posts: 1078 Join Date: 4/25/20 Recent Posts
This is the norm. I have joined sitting groups in various traditions, including several that practice noting. Most people have never heard of the A&P, even those who have been happily meditating for decades. 
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Matt Jon Rousseau, modified 2 Days ago at 2/6/25 10:55 AM
Created 2 Days ago at 2/6/25 10:55 AM

RE: Fastest Path to Stream Entry? Seeking Advice on Approach & Timelines

Posts: 258 Join Date: 5/1/22 Recent Posts
I kind of find that disheartening. But I can never stop meditating now I just can't
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Martin V, modified 2 Days ago at 2/6/25 12:36 PM
Created 2 Days ago at 2/6/25 12:36 PM

RE: Fastest Path to Stream Entry? Seeking Advice on Approach & Timelines

Posts: 1078 Join Date: 4/25/20 Recent Posts
Yes, I can see how what I wrote might sound disheartening. I forgot to mention that many of these people have been transformed by meditation, and live exceptionally wise and happy lives. There are various ways that the mind can be trained and transformed by meditation. It seems that A&P events happen under certain conditions, and they can lead to certain types of insight. But there are other ways in which insight happens. 

If you are committed to meditation, and it seems you are, and meditation allows you to see the world in a different way, then you have had more benefit than most people who take up meditation, including many people who have had an A&P experience. Being suited to meditation is not a given. Don't take it lightly. Having an ongoing meditation practice is such good luck! 

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