I'm a long time meditator and Buddhist practitioner. Over a year ago I began working with Peter Carrol exploring the world of Chaos Magic. One of my key take aways has been a connection between the concept of gnosis and how it fits within the Buddhist framework and dependent origination specifically. I've attached a paper that I wrote on the subject. I hope you find it interesting. Any comments are appreciated. Thanks

It would be interesting to have a section on karmic action vs those that don't generate more karma.

For example the consequences of chaos magick for personal gain vs impersonal Brahamavihara good intentions.

This seems like almost a category error in comparison inthe sense that these are two different paths of becoming. One is a path of power and the other is that of a mystic. Further Buddism is a very diverse tradition. The idea of magick in Theravada is very different from magick in Vajrayana say in the Six Yogas of Naropa (Mullin, 2006, McLeod, 2013). Visionary magick in the latter looks more shamanic. The liminal spaces are accessed differently and for different purposes.

There are also different kinds of liminal spaces for example the boundary between the Nirmanakaya and the Sambhogakaya can be called the wake sleep boundary and the boundary between Sambhogakaya and Dharmakaya is another more amorphous liminal space. Different psycho cosmologies have different liminal spaces like chakras or sephirot or koshas or 31 realms of the sagga loka or links in the chain of depedent origination. In the Buddhist realm cases (Sadakata, 1997) even the arrangement of the liminal spaces have effects. The Borobudur mandala mountain is one such cosmology with both a vertical and a horizontal layout. Different operations are done in different realms. It might help also to talk about the view or cosmology being taken in the magick system. A chaos magician might be using a totally different cosmology or system than with dependent origination. In my opinion it would be too reductive to reduce everything from a very broad system (in either system) to dependent origination. Gnosis is also a different effect than magick and might be more like bodhicitta or pratibha and might occur in the Pleroma or Collective Unconcious or Dharmakaya or Shunayata rather than in the Shamboghakaya. In the chaos magick case the form of Gnosis might also be completely different from Buddhist bodhicitta and might come in the form of a HGA or Daimon (Meade, 2018, Crowley). It really seems like a category error kind of comparison between incomparibles.  I come from the qualified non duality point of view (infinite diversity in infinte combinations like the Vulcans) rather than perenialism so I have my own biases.

I really like the information in the paper and I hope you find the additional areas of exploration suggested interesting. We are coming from different perspectives and I enjoyed reading yours.

​​​​​​​References:

Sadakata, A. (1997). Buddhist Cosmology: Philosophy and Origins.
McLeod, K. (2023). The Magic of Vajrayana.
Mullin, G. (2006). The Practice Of the Six Yogas of Naropa.
Crowley, A. (various publishers). Magick: Liber ABA, Book 4.
Meade. M. (2018). The Genius Myth.
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dhamma/sagga/loka.html
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Thanks for the feedback you cover a lot of ground outside my knowledge base and have given me a lot of things to investigate.

I definitely see your points but most are beyond the scope of the paper and I stick to the Pali cannon for the Buddhist perspective. The paper is reductive by nature. Personally, I see a common thread of technique in all meditative and magical systems which I summarize in a refined definition of Gnosis. There are many possible nuances to this liminal state as you mention and the karmic implications are certainly interesting. I used to work as a music recording engineer years ago. We had a saying "shit in, shit out" anytime we couldn't get a recording to sound good. If the band isn’t good the recording probably won’t be either. Likewise, a person can reach a state of gnosis doesn't mean the using it in a wholesome way.

​​​​​​​Gnosis: the intentionally entered liminal state that allows a magikian to bypass egoic inhibitions thus allowing implantation of magikal intent into the subconscious, which then acts upon the objective world. This liminal space occurs between sensory feeling #7 and craving #8, (the introduction of the ego) in the Buddhist concept of dependent origination. Through inhibitory or excitatory techniques, the state of craving and ego are not engaged allowing the magikal intent to flow freely into the subconscious.

Ah I see, I think the Gnosis is also linked with the liminal state.

For example Ingram writes in https://www.mctb.org/mctb2/table-of-contents/part-iv-insight/30-the-progress-of-insight/15-fruition/

"Just after the attainment of a path, particularly the first path, is a time when formal resolutions have an outrageous amount of power. The Buddha said that the greatest of all powers is to understand and then teach the dharma, meaning to attain full realization, however you define it, and then to help others do the same. I had been advised to use this unique period in my practice well, and I resolved to attain this awakening for the benefit of all beings as quickly as was reasonably possible."

I would argue that this kind of Gnosis is also gnosis but in a different liminal state than descibed above, and would be the kind of place one would take the Bodhissatva vow.

So from extrapolation there are different kinds of Gnosis that operate differently in different liminal spaces.
For example Gnosis in the liminal state between wake and sleep affects the subconcious but Gnosis in the liminal state between sleep and deep sleep might affect a deeper part of the mind or transpersonal mind like the Collective Unconcious, Perhaps one kind of Gnosis is personal and the other is more for collective welfare like metta, karuna etc.

Agreed. That's what I was aiming for.I think each gnosis is unique by what proceeds it. Things like, intent, preparation, virtue, wisdom and concentration that precede a gnosis experience will determine the outcome. Gnosis itself will occur at the same point in the cycle of dependent origination.

I would then disagree about gnosis being between feeling 7 and craving 8, I think it would be between 10 (Becoming) and 11 (Birth) but that is based on other models like an emanation mandala so I am just guessing what it would be like when using a dependent origination chain which I do not use. I use other kinds of ascension ladders.

I would associate craving and clinging with hungry ghost realm type magick, which is why I was saying the realm is also important.
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The brahamavihara type magick occurs post equinamity in my opinion, which would be post clinging and craving at the balance point.

​​​​​​​There is a definite difference between magick based on need vs magick done from the fullness of Being the purnam or wholeness.

​​​​​​​In DnD terms it's like mage or priest magick.

Thanks for your perspectives. I think a lot of our differences center around the Pali canon descriptions of dependent origination. 

Dependent origination is something you can investigate and see for yourself. Doing that eliminates the need for interpretation.

No problem, the differences aren't a problem I think you wanted feedback from other practitioners and not just affirmation right? I'm a scholar practitioner of comparative religions so naturally that's my take. Thus I am more familiar with the chaos magick side and less with one specific Pali method. Happy to dialogue more if you relax this restrictions
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​​​​​​My hobby is to engage new points of view and phenomenalogy not win arguments and I was fascinated by the combination of topics which I found interesting.

No problem. Thanks for the clarification.

In that case, gnosis by the definition I have provided cannot occur between links 10 and 11. Gnosis is a momentary bypass of the ego or the I, me, mine state of mind which becomes present in craving #8 and is carried down the line.

“The brahamavihara type magick occurs post equinamity in my opinion, which would be post clinging and craving at the balance point.” This is correct from the jhana perspective but jhanas are defined by what is not present. Each ascending jhana is closer to gnosis. I do not state this in the paper but gnosis is essentially cessation or nirodha in this context. This is way beyond the scope of the paper but gnosis/cessation is occurring all the time but is only recognized through a complete release of the ego/self. The chain of dependent origination is momentarily broken.

“There is a definite difference between magick based on need vs magick done from the fullness of Being the purnam or wholeness.” I agree with this as well. The intent is the difference between the two. Gnosis/cessation is the same for both. When the intent is applied to the end of suffering or another wholesome state the post gnosis/cessation experience moves in that direction. When the intent is applied to the supernormal powers it moves in that direction.
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If one enters gnosis/cessation through the brahmaviharas one will by the very nature the brahmaviharas have a wholesome result. But, there many ways to enter gnosis/cessation. Some of them require little to no insight or virtue.

Through what means might one arrive at cessation without insight?

I know very well the kind of Gnosis early chaotes pursued in order to power their magic and I'll wager it never led them to any kind of cessation, certainly not in the sense we would use the word here in a meditative context. 

I knew this would open a can of worms but I think it is worth considering. Gnosis/cessation in the Buddhist sense has a very different intent, different supports such as virtue, wisdom and concentration and very different results. In a magic system the intent may be very different, may be driven by personal gain, and produce results dependent on those factors. It is very straight dependent origination. There is nowhere in the Pali canon (which is the limit of my reference point) that says cessation only happens in a specific way that I am aware of.

Buddhism points to right understanding and has very refined tools and directions to reach right understanding. By this nature the experience will be very different. But even within Buddhism the experience of cessation has a wide variety. For example, not all experiences of cessation end in a shift of path. This is because the causes and conditions preceding are different and produce a different result. Every stream enterer thinks the next cessation makes them a sotapanna but it rarely does. The experience of cessation is just the experience of cessation. It is not special. It is just a very subtle part of dependent origination.

Here are a few ways gnosis/cessation may be induced.

A Zen Roshi hitting a student on the back with stick, a stranger hitting you with a stick while you are watching TV, observing the pause between breaths, sensory deprivation, mantra or chanting, drumming, intense ritual, sexual extasy, psychedelics etc. Most of these have no function in the Buddhist path but they do produce a moment of cessation that can be used to produce certain outcomes.

Mike, how much experience do you have with Buddhist meditation?

I've been at it for about 30 years. Mostly from the Pali Cannon perspective.

And your experience of cessation within that framework?

A fair amount but it's just a state. It's what is put into it that matters. Even when studying chaos magic I keep everything within the Buddhist mindset. Put in the eightfold path and wholsome things will come out. It is really that simple.

What's it like when you're in this state?

BTW - I'm trying to understand where you're coming from with what you've posted here so far. I'm hoping to get to some agreed-upon phenomenology. Thus, my questions. I appreciate your patience with me.

There's no like to it. Only before and after. 

Ok. You called it a "just a state." It's impossible for me to describe because with cessation there's absolutely no existence or consciousness. Would you agree? 

Be it the death posture of Austin Osman Spare, the post ejaculatory reverie of the 90s chaos magicians or the vaguely meditative approaches of contemporaries in the field, I see no evidence that these people are experiencing cessations. They are not reporting path moments or the cessation of suffering. 

Cessation is the cessation of dependent origination. 

​​​​​​​I don't think it's correct at all to categorize it as a state that occurs between some links in the chain.

​​​​​​​I find it hard to believe people are having fruitions everytime they fire off a spell. 

​​​​​​​There'd be a lot of very awake wizards walking around... May we one day be so lucky.

​​​​​​​Merely my understanding of things... I have been known to be wrong. 

I am almost  100 percent positive chaotes are not having cessation.  I truly believe they are experiencing jhanas or dhyana to various degrees. I still stink at meditation.  But I crossed referenced this stuff for years. However I have been wrong about many things.  

This is all great stuff! Thanks. I'll do my best to address everything here.

To start with I am using nirodha samapatti as my reference point for gnosis/cessation. There are many types of nirodha. Most are named by the conditions that produce them or the results they produce. Nirodha samapatti is the cessation of perception and feeling. When viewed through the lens of dependent origination it naturally occurs after feeling and before craving. Feeling is impermanent. When feeling ends there is nothing to perceive (if craving does not arise) so there is no perception. If no I, me or mine arises the chain is momentarily broken. Experience ends (no feeling or perception) then it all starts up again. What makes nirodha samapatti special in Buddhist terms is the causes and conditions that lead to it. These causes and conditions via the eightfold path allow the practitioner to get an extremely close view of this process which does lead to right understanding and eventually the end of suffering.

In the case of magic users and other traditions the causes and conditions that precede cessation may be very different and produce very different outcomes. This can include (but not necessarily) a less refined experience of the events before and after cessation. Think of cessation as a doorway. Anyone can walk through. I suspect everyone experiences this many times throughout their lives by chance alone but few ever look at it up closely.

I agree there are many ways to enter gnosis. Also loved your comment on the brahmaviharas, seems like we agree on a lot.

I would probably also disambiguate gnosis, magick and cessation also.
It makes it easier to talk to other mystics doing other things under the chaos magick syncretic umbrella because there are many ways to work with the energies.

For example in the Srividya / Traipura tradition

From the Tripurasundari mantra (Tantra Illuminated, Christopher Wallis, p. 199) it looks like

Mantra component : meaning : my interpretation of your words
icca-sakti : will or creative urge : 
jnana-sakti : insight : gnosis (as the Greek word for knowledge)
kriya-sakti : action : magick

The direct quote is also interesting because it has elements of what you are saying about excitory methods
The Brihadaranyaka Upanishad I.6 describes it as a triplicity of name, form and work (https://www.wisdomlib.org/hinduism/book/the-brihadaranyaka-upanishad/d/doc117943.html)

So two different systems disambiguate magick, gnosis and don't really mention cessation.
Although the way I experience BU I.6 is via Zen's do nothing shikentaza meditation, wherein one sits and does nothing so in a way names and forms cease but not the nirodha that you mention.

Thanks for the great feedback. This is my first attempt to write anything like this and I am learning a lot. I had to look up disambiguate I intentionally left cessation out of the paper knowing it was more than I was willing to tackle at the time. I do hope to go back and refine things as I get a clearer direction.

I do think cessation is a common tool in many traditions even in hypnosis and psychotherapy.

Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing (EMDR) in psychotherapy is a good example utilizing/inducing moments of cessation to change the relationship a patient has to a trauma. As the eyes move side to side (or in the case of tapping opposite hands) there is a bilateral stimulation in the brain. The movement from one hemisphere of the brain to the other induced by the side-to-side physical movement of the eyes causes a natural cessation. Through the clinician and client setting up the proper conditions this break in the chain can reduce the emotional and physiological connection to the trauma.

If anyone wants to try to become familiar with this simple cessation moment just try shifting your eyes side to side every second or so for a couple of minutes. Notice the visual blank spot in the middle. The feeling of pleasant, unpleasant or neither pleasant nor unpleasant cease and there is no visual perception. If you want to experiment further, try going through the same process while maintaining a simple thought (that you aren’t very concerned about) like what you want for dinner. I bet it is more difficult that you think. Now stop doing the eye movement and try out the thought. Does it seem more continuous and fluid? There are a bunch of moments like these one can become more aware of and use in their practice.

My strategy to get around being quizzed about cessation is just don't use the word. There are so many alternatives listed at the end of Shizen Young's noting gone article

https://www.shinzen.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/art_PowerofGone.pdf

Just use them and you'd not only be legible to folks from other traditions you'd also not be evaluated under a microscope for arhatness because you sidestep the attainment language.

​​​​​​​I personally find the term ground of being to be the most legible and neutral.

Thanks, that is a great suggestion.