mahamudra and the thoughtless state

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Michael O Hartigan, modified 9 Years ago.

mahamudra and the thoughtless state

Posts: 21 Join Date: 2/15/12 Recent Posts
Hi DhO,

Is there a difference between the mahamudra state and just having no thoughts?

It seems like there is some reference in the literature to subject/object unification, but if I'm not thinking, how does one really get into what is the subject and what is the object? Aren't those thought-constructs? Or is there some experiential piece of the puzzle that i am overlooking?

Thank you in advance for your help, if i can be of any help in clarifying, ask whatever questions arise!

with blessings
Michael
Jampa Rinchen
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N A, modified 9 Years ago.

RE: mahamudra and the thoughtless state

Posts: 157 Join Date: 7/10/11 Recent Posts
There are perfectly mundane states without discursive thoughts. I get that sometimes just by driving fast or playing a musical instrument.
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fivebells ., modified 9 Years ago.

RE: mahamudra and the thoughtless state

Posts: 563 Join Date: 2/25/11 Recent Posts
Hi, Michael. Is this coming up in your practice in any way?
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Michael O Hartigan, modified 9 Years ago.

RE: mahamudra and the thoughtless state

Posts: 21 Join Date: 2/15/12 Recent Posts
Yes fivebells, i have been having success in sitting and quieting my mind in meditation, going for periods of 10 and 15 minutes between anything vaguely discursive, then another 10 to 15 min or so, etc. I am also having success in recognizing the discursive nature of my thoughts as they arise, as in that state anything linguistic seems foreign. I have been able to root thoughts out quickly (before they happen) by maintaining awareness on the non-discursive mind, or my awareness itself in other words. This is not a forced repression or a suppression of thought, but a natural desire to rest in a non-discursive state expressed as the choice not to think. Very exciting breakthrough! I have been able to do it for my last 10 sessions or so.

I have read several of the classics on mahamudra but i still am not really sure if the state i have begun to stabilize here is mahamudra itself, or just a step in that direction. It certainly SEEMs like the primordial state of luminous awareness and so on, but how does one really know for sure?

Next time i see my root lama i will ask him, I'm pretty sure he'll have the answer. But i was curious so i thought i would post it here.

also, in regards to the other poster's comment about driving or music, i would suggest that the mind is not discursive at those times because it is engaged in other activities. Those are not meditative states (i don't recommend samadhi at speeds higher than 65 mph lol) and differ from a non-discursive state born of meditation, when there is little else to "distract" or engage the mind to keep it from thinking. Just a difference to consider. Thank you for your comment though
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fivebells ., modified 9 Years ago.

RE: mahamudra and the thoughtless state

Posts: 563 Join Date: 2/25/11 Recent Posts
Ah, I see. You've attained some valuable concentration skills, but that is not Mahamudra primordial awareness per se. Definitely consult with your teacher, though.

The presence of thoughts doesn't in itself preclude primordial awareness. They may occlude it, though. emoticon

The subject/object duality construction is a concept from the start, so unification is a natural development of complete quieting of thoughts.

Check all of this with your teacher, obviously.
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Michael O Hartigan, modified 9 Years ago.

RE: mahamudra and the thoughtless state

Posts: 21 Join Date: 2/15/12 Recent Posts
thank you for your insight fivebells!

i will ask my lama about it at the first chance that arises.

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