Trouble Sitting after Retreat - Discussion
Trouble Sitting after Retreat
Brato Ganibe, modified 29 Days ago at 2/15/25 10:19 AM
Created 29 Days ago at 2/15/25 10:19 AM
Trouble Sitting after Retreat
Posts: 69 Join Date: 8/30/16 Recent Posts
I am 2 weeks past a 7-day retreat, and I'm having some trouble settling into formal practice. On retreat, I noticed by Day 3 that my usual techniques were no longer as effective because the baseline of the mind was shifted, so trying to focus the mind single-pointedly was a hindrance because the mind was already concetrated and the field of awareness had naturally expanded. I realized this quickly, and was able to be more skillful in how I approached formal sits.
But now, and pretty much since the end of the retreat, the mind feels scrambled and I can't seem to get any footing on the cushion. The breath, bodily sensations, essentially all objects seem slippery and elusive. Any attempt to direct the mind in any particular direction feels forced and the mind seems to push back in opposition. So, I usually just kinda sit there holding a very light and general awareness of whatever is there, but overall the sits just feel 'blah' and there's an inner sense that I'm not using enough effort, or at least not the right kind of effort.
Any thoughts?
But now, and pretty much since the end of the retreat, the mind feels scrambled and I can't seem to get any footing on the cushion. The breath, bodily sensations, essentially all objects seem slippery and elusive. Any attempt to direct the mind in any particular direction feels forced and the mind seems to push back in opposition. So, I usually just kinda sit there holding a very light and general awareness of whatever is there, but overall the sits just feel 'blah' and there's an inner sense that I'm not using enough effort, or at least not the right kind of effort.
Any thoughts?
Matt Jon Rousseau, modified 29 Days ago at 2/15/25 10:38 AM
Created 29 Days ago at 2/15/25 10:38 AM
RE: Trouble Sitting after Retreat
Posts: 264 Join Date: 5/1/22 Recent PostsBrato Ganibe, modified 29 Days ago at 2/15/25 11:07 AM
Created 29 Days ago at 2/15/25 11:07 AM
RE: Trouble Sitting after Retreat
Posts: 69 Join Date: 8/30/16 Recent Posts
My practice had been to settle the mind, usually on the breath at the nostrils, and eventually the field of awareness would naturally expand and watch objects come and go, gently investigating with varying degrees of duality.
Martin V, modified 29 Days ago at 2/15/25 11:54 AM
Created 29 Days ago at 2/15/25 11:54 AM
RE: Trouble Sitting after Retreat
Posts: 1119 Join Date: 4/25/20 Recent Posts
I went through a time when the mind would hold onto objects nearly effortlessly and sitting was very pleasant. Then, I went through a time like you are describing when the mind behaved like a bored teenager: non-compliant, not interested, dull. I thought, what is the point of sitting like this, especially when I know it can be so much better? I asked a teacher on retreat. He said, just watch and investigate what is going on. What is boring like? What is boring made up of? What exactly happens when the mind does not do what I want it to do? Is there a pattern? Is there a flavor?
If your goal is to have a different experience, either in the long term, through insight, or in the short term, through concentration, the most useful thing is to learn how the mind works. This scrambled state, without any footing, is one of the ways that the mind can work. While it lasts (and, of course, it won't last forever) you have the opportunity to learn about it. Go for it! :-)
If your goal is to have a different experience, either in the long term, through insight, or in the short term, through concentration, the most useful thing is to learn how the mind works. This scrambled state, without any footing, is one of the ways that the mind can work. While it lasts (and, of course, it won't last forever) you have the opportunity to learn about it. Go for it! :-)
Papa Che Dusko, modified 29 Days ago at 2/15/25 12:06 PM
Created 29 Days ago at 2/15/25 12:06 PM
RE: Trouble Sitting after Retreat
Posts: 3449 Join Date: 3/1/20 Recent Posts
When the hard stage shows up DO NOT GIVE UP
This is just showing that your mind progressed into a new mind stage/state.
You can make sure you sit ONCE a day! Only once but for no less than 45 minutes. Note out aloud. Every 2-3 seconds note aloud. With eyes open is ok too. I did it and it did not stay in the way of SE. Its ok to note aloud "boring, uneventful, desire to stop sitting, imagining the timer, wanting to look at the timer, boring, don't know, all same, uneventful, boring" or "unpleasant, desire to quit, aversion, ... " whatever it is, note aloud and keep the eyes open and gently place the focus on any spot of smear of dirt on the floor, furniture, door or wall (depending where you sit).
You can do this! Many of us hit these stages and know what you are going through! Forget concentration and keep at the insight instead. Periphery can also give lots to be noted! Listen to the nada sound in your ears! How is this changing?? Etc ...
Also note the thoughts about "baseline of the mind was shifted"! This is very important to see as anatta, anicca and dukkha.
Bets wishes!

You can make sure you sit ONCE a day! Only once but for no less than 45 minutes. Note out aloud. Every 2-3 seconds note aloud. With eyes open is ok too. I did it and it did not stay in the way of SE. Its ok to note aloud "boring, uneventful, desire to stop sitting, imagining the timer, wanting to look at the timer, boring, don't know, all same, uneventful, boring" or "unpleasant, desire to quit, aversion, ... " whatever it is, note aloud and keep the eyes open and gently place the focus on any spot of smear of dirt on the floor, furniture, door or wall (depending where you sit).
You can do this! Many of us hit these stages and know what you are going through! Forget concentration and keep at the insight instead. Periphery can also give lots to be noted! Listen to the nada sound in your ears! How is this changing?? Etc ...
Also note the thoughts about "baseline of the mind was shifted"! This is very important to see as anatta, anicca and dukkha.
Bets wishes!
Adi Vader, modified 28 Days ago at 2/16/25 12:00 AM
Created 28 Days ago at 2/16/25 12:00 AM
RE: Trouble Sitting after Retreat
Posts: 431 Join Date: 6/29/20 Recent Posts
Hi
When the mind engages with objects, its like a preliminary serenity practice.
When the mind starts to engage with its own nature -
1. Construct nature
2. Unreliable nature
3. Autonomous nature
This is Insight practice.
The characteristics of how the mind works are totally unfamiliar to us and direct experience of sunnata, anicca, anatta tends to create fear/misery/disgust/desperation.
Let the mind deeply engage with these characteristics, try to keep relaxing the body and mind. If you feel bright and dullness is not a problem then you can lie down supine on a yoga mat and continue observing for the planned duration of your sits.
This too will pass and to experience the mind fully delivers Insight.
When the mind engages with objects, its like a preliminary serenity practice.
When the mind starts to engage with its own nature -
1. Construct nature
2. Unreliable nature
3. Autonomous nature
This is Insight practice.
The characteristics of how the mind works are totally unfamiliar to us and direct experience of sunnata, anicca, anatta tends to create fear/misery/disgust/desperation.
Let the mind deeply engage with these characteristics, try to keep relaxing the body and mind. If you feel bright and dullness is not a problem then you can lie down supine on a yoga mat and continue observing for the planned duration of your sits.
This too will pass and to experience the mind fully delivers Insight.
Brato Ganibe, modified 28 Days ago at 2/16/25 8:51 AM
Created 28 Days ago at 2/16/25 8:51 AM
RE: Trouble Sitting after Retreat
Posts: 69 Join Date: 8/30/16 Recent Posts
I was able to see a little more clearly this morning, probably because I wasn't trying to 'do' any particular thing, and just allowing/being with.
What I noticed was that everything seemed to have a quality of dullness, coldness, grey-ness, almost dead-ness. There was an inner feeling-tone that was quite visceral and almost literally gave me a taste in my mouth like I had eaten something rotten or foul, or that sensation you get when you smell a dead animal.
It's been a while since I've consciously tracked insight stages, but after my sit, I grabbed MTCB and read the chapter on 'Disgust' and the description seemed to track pretty well (loss of clarity in the center of attention, mind feeling streched and contracted, difficulty seeing thoughts as thoughts).
What I noticed was that everything seemed to have a quality of dullness, coldness, grey-ness, almost dead-ness. There was an inner feeling-tone that was quite visceral and almost literally gave me a taste in my mouth like I had eaten something rotten or foul, or that sensation you get when you smell a dead animal.
It's been a while since I've consciously tracked insight stages, but after my sit, I grabbed MTCB and read the chapter on 'Disgust' and the description seemed to track pretty well (loss of clarity in the center of attention, mind feeling streched and contracted, difficulty seeing thoughts as thoughts).
pixelcloud *, modified 28 Days ago at 2/16/25 10:54 AM
Created 28 Days ago at 2/16/25 10:34 AM
RE: Trouble Sitting after Retreat
Posts: 87 Join Date: 10/25/24 Recent Posts
Two resources that might be helpful:
TM162 06 06 2021 Daniel Ingram
Go to 17:00 and listen to what is being exlained there, why it happens and how to adjust practice.
"Let the shape of attention be what it is."
Deconstructing Sensory Experience, with Michael Taft - Deconstructing Yourself
TM162 06 06 2021 Daniel Ingram
Go to 17:00 and listen to what is being exlained there, why it happens and how to adjust practice.
"Let the shape of attention be what it is."
Deconstructing Sensory Experience, with Michael Taft - Deconstructing Yourself