Benevolent universe ?

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Shashank Dixit, modified 11 Years ago at 8/18/12 1:26 AM
Created 11 Years ago at 8/18/12 1:26 AM

Benevolent universe ?

Posts: 282 Join Date: 9/11/10 Recent Posts
Hi

This is something I fail to understand no matter how hard I've tried or even read so many times on the AFT site.
I can understand and experience that the universe is indeed benign , in the sense that none of the physical matter
can actually think/feel and wants to harm but in what sense is benign used ? Is it to mean that the universe is very
abundant in its variety of manifestations ? If anyone has more clue and understanding of this , please
enlighten (the non-spiritual one)

- Shashank
Rotten Tomato, modified 11 Years ago at 8/18/12 4:54 AM
Created 11 Years ago at 8/18/12 4:54 AM

RE: Benevolent universe ?

Posts: 22 Join Date: 7/24/12 Recent Posts
Imo If you get Pure Intent you should get this.
Change A, modified 11 Years ago at 8/18/12 6:23 AM
Created 11 Years ago at 8/18/12 6:23 AM

RE: Benevolent universe ?

Posts: 791 Join Date: 5/24/10 Recent Posts
Shashank Dixit:
If anyone has more clue and understanding of this , please
enlighten (the non-spiritual one)


In AF, qualities of God have been ascribed to 'Universe'. AF 'Universe' is the God. Did you read one of the posts made by someone the points of which were written by Harmanjit on the Yahoo list? In it, he had listed all the qualities which are normally ascribed to God have been ascribed to 'Universe' in the AF. In the normal world, one needs to have connection with the God; in AF world, one needs to tap into 'Pure Intent' which originates where else but the Universe!
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Shashank Dixit, modified 11 Years ago at 8/18/12 7:21 AM
Created 11 Years ago at 8/18/12 7:21 AM

RE: Benevolent universe ?

Posts: 282 Join Date: 9/11/10 Recent Posts
Aman A.:
Shashank Dixit:
If anyone has more clue and understanding of this , please
enlighten (the non-spiritual one)


In AF, qualities of God have been ascribed to 'Universe'. AF 'Universe' is the God. Did you read one of the posts made by someone the points of which were written by Harmanjit on the Yahoo list? In it, he had listed all the qualities which are normally ascribed to God have been ascribed to 'Universe' in the AF. In the normal world, one needs to have connection with the God; in AF world, one needs to tap into 'Pure Intent' which originates where else but the Universe!


Yes Aman , makes sense but its so much cleaner/clearer to talk about universe directly.
Change A, modified 11 Years ago at 8/18/12 7:51 AM
Created 11 Years ago at 8/18/12 7:51 AM

RE: Benevolent universe ?

Posts: 791 Join Date: 5/24/10 Recent Posts
Shashank Dixit:
Yes Aman , makes sense but its so much cleaner/clearer to talk about universe directly.


Then there will be no AF. All of the systems suffer from this. Eventually you come across some concept which you have to believe on faith or somehow experience even though it might be 180 degree opposite to your normal everyday experience. Those who can manage to make a leap of faith, end up not suffering. Those you can't, keep on suffering. To make matters worse, there is no choice emoticon
Rotten Tomato, modified 11 Years ago at 8/18/12 9:37 AM
Created 11 Years ago at 8/18/12 9:37 AM

RE: Benevolent universe ?

Posts: 22 Join Date: 7/24/12 Recent Posts
Aman A.:
Shashank Dixit:
Yes Aman , makes sense but its so much cleaner/clearer to talk about universe directly.


Then there will be no AF. All of the systems suffer from this. Eventually you come across some concept which you have to believe on faith or somehow experience even though it might be 180 degree opposite to your normal everyday experience. Those who can manage to make a leap of faith, end up not suffering. Those you can't, keep on suffering. To make matters worse, there is no choice emoticon


ha ha!
Also, The starting point (of practice) is crucial. Some come, get started ie, after a powerful personal experience. Many don't. It's a result of contemplating on life, about various systems and then choosing one because its makes the best sense. But that starting point is already conditioned by the aspects of that particular system.

If one starts Actualism after a powerful PCE experience then its different. If one starts after reading the site and then deciding through cognitive process that this is the best way to go, it then is another matter altogether. I don't have a PCE memory and so flail about. I have EEs before I encountered actualism and have been attracted to that. I have left it, come back to it, flail around, but its a recurring theme in life. It's there winking at one in the background.

And Shashank, I meant what I initially wrote. If you are convinced about Pure Intent, the manifest life force, then benevolent universe should be a logical progression of that. If you are not, then of course I can understand the confusion. But if you "get", as in understand, Pure intent, then I don't see why you won't get the benevolent universe. fwiw, I don't get pure intent.
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Shashank Dixit, modified 11 Years ago at 8/18/12 11:44 AM
Created 11 Years ago at 8/18/12 11:44 AM

RE: Benevolent universe ?

Posts: 282 Join Date: 9/11/10 Recent Posts
Thanks RottenTomato and Aman - this discussion has given me a vital clue. The normal reality is a grim business and when one experiences a PCE , one thinks "oh look the universe is actually a cool, safe place" and this comparison with the 'real' world makes one think that the universe is benevolent.
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Beoman Claudiu Dragon Emu Fire Golem, modified 11 Years ago at 8/18/12 12:19 PM
Created 11 Years ago at 8/18/12 11:58 AM

RE: Benevolent universe ?

Posts: 2227 Join Date: 10/27/10 Recent Posts
Shashank Dixit:
Thanks RottenTomato and Aman - this discussion has given me a vital clue. The normal reality is a grim business and when one experiences a PCE , one thinks "oh look the universe is actually a cool, safe place" and this comparison with the 'real' world makes one think that the universe is benevolent.

Aman has it backwards, actually. It's the universe itself that actually exists and is benevolent, and feeling-beings have projected these actually existing qualities onto a 'God' and then fervently believed in that 'God'.

RESPONDENT: Hmm ... I had the distinct impression that the Self was also infinite, and as such Perfect.
RICHARD: That is indeed the impression, yes ... yet all the while it has been this material universe which is infinite, eternal, and perpetual (the Self is but an usurper arrogating the properties of the actual for Itself).
In order to be humble one does have to first be arrogant.

[link]

If in regards to actualism, whenever you see universe you instead understand 'God', or understand the two as some sort of equivalent, you will simply never really understand what it's about.
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fivebells , modified 11 Years ago at 8/18/12 12:00 PM
Created 11 Years ago at 8/18/12 12:00 PM

RE: Benevolent universe ?

Posts: 563 Join Date: 2/25/11 Recent Posts
What does it mean, for the universe to actually exist? What would it look like if it didn't actually exist?
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Beoman Claudiu Dragon Emu Fire Golem, modified 11 Years ago at 8/18/12 12:11 PM
Created 11 Years ago at 8/18/12 12:06 PM

RE: Benevolent universe ?

Posts: 2227 Join Date: 10/27/10 Recent Posts
fivebells .:
What does it mean, for the universe to actually exist? What would it look like if it didn't actually exist?

If the universe didn't actually exist, nothing would be here. We wouldn't be able to have this conversation.

That doesn't stop people from thinking it doesn't exist, though. This is commonly shown when people say things like, all there is is experience, and I can't say whether there is any desk or chair really here because all I experience is the colors (which don't exist anyway as not all species see colors) and sense of touch (and hard/soft also doesn't exist really because not everything experiences touch like that), etc. So the universe is seen to be an illusory play in one's mind that has no existence outside of that. What happens after I die in that case? Experience must surely continue in some way or another. What's death if my experience doesn't depend on my body? Maybe I will go to heaven or hell or be reborn in another body. etc. Or at best I can say "I don't know" and put off the question till later.

But really, as the only reason I'm conscious is because of this body, it's easy to tell what happens when I die, namely: all experience will stop, for me, and the rest of the universe will continue just fine. I am indeed mortal.

EDIT to add: The only way you could think the universe doesn't exist is if there is some sort of feeling-being around, in whatever form. That's because the feeling-being itself is indeed illusory/delusory, and it projects these qualities onto everything it experiences, even the senses. So the senses have this illusory quality to them, as a feeling-being. The mistake is thinking that illusory quality of the senses pertains to the universe/to all of experience, instead of to the feeling-being that is filtering them. When there is no feeling-being, there is a direct experience of the universe, and thus no doubt at all that the universe does indeed actually and inherently exist.
Change A, modified 11 Years ago at 8/18/12 1:20 PM
Created 11 Years ago at 8/18/12 1:20 PM

RE: Benevolent universe ?

Posts: 791 Join Date: 5/24/10 Recent Posts
Beoman Claudiu Dragon Emu Fire Golem:
It's the universe itself that actually exists and is benevolent, and feeling-beings have projected these actually existing qualities onto a 'God' and then fervently believed in that 'God'.


Nobody said that the universe doesn't actually exist. What is being talked about is that the 'actual universe' in AF (note that it is not the universe which does exist) has been ascribed the same qualities as 'god'. God is told to be benevolent, infinite and eternal in the same way AF universe is told to be benevolent, infinite and eternal. In AF, self-proclaimed non-feeling non-being flesh and blood bodies are projecting their mind states on their version of the universe and then fervently believe in that 'universe'.