Experience and questions with kasina practice.

Matt N, modified 8 Years ago.

Experience and questions with kasina practice.

Posts: 10 Join Date: 5/16/11 Recent Posts
I've been trying kasinas for awhile after 2 years of other practices. Been having a hard time focusing lately during my normal insight stuff and wanted to do some concentration building.

I've heard here that some people focus on the retinal burn of the kasina when they close their eyes. For me I have a blue circle on an empty white wall I stare at. I will see a bright spinning orange dot about half the size of the kasina when I close my eyes. It will disappear and reappear less intensely several times then go away.

What I've found is the slightest eye flickers/movements tend to be what force the after image away, but I'm not 100% sure about this. I've tried relaxing my eyes more but it seems impossible to fully control these. Knowing how the whole retinal after image works I'm not sure it is actually possible to fully keep this image going like some claim.....

I also read somewhere today that you shouldn't be focusing on the retinal after image itself but more a "mental replica" of what the kasina looks like created in your minds eye. When you start to lose what it looks like, you open your eyes again for a minute or two to get a clear picture, then close and focus on a mental image of it again.

I've tried this today and I feel like I'm getting much stronger concentration going doing so. I always feel a tension like (but not painful) feeling in my crown during deep concentration and it becomes much stronger quicker doing this. Is this correct?

I also notice that when I get a strong concentration going if I focus on my spine during the in breath I will feel waves of energy that feels like excitement that will bubble up my spine and into my head. I've had this many times before in meditation (breathing at the nose in particular) and thought it was A&P or possible jhana before.

I can recreate this tingling rush every single time, sometimes multiple times. It never lasts more than a few seconds and doesn't seem prolong-able though. It just sort of increases in intensity with each in breath (loses a tiny bit of steam on out) and gets more intense the next in breath, until it fills my head/spine for a few seconds intensely then fades completely.
Anyone know what that may be?

I also feel something similiar when I relax my legs fully. I can do it even outside of meditation but I originally learnt how during concentration. I was focusing on the weight of my body/legs and fully relaxing them. It feels like excited vibrations but when I create it from my legs it lasts like 1-2 seconds where as this spine thing lasts 6-7 (almost feels like i'm pushing them down or maybe flexing some strange muscle subtely)
Mario Nistri, modified 8 Years ago.

RE: Experience and questions with kasina practice.

Posts: 210 Join Date: 3/3/12 Recent Posts
Well... not an expert, but...


I've heard here that some people focus on the retinal burn of the kasina when they close their eyes. For me I have a blue circle on an empty white wall I stare at. I will see a bright spinning orange dot about half the size of the kasina when I close my eyes. It will disappear and reappear less intensely several times then go away.
What I've found is the slightest eye flickers/movements tend to be what force the after image away, but I'm not 100% sure about this. I've tried relaxing my eyes more but it seems impossible to fully control these.


This seems to me like the first vipassana jhana, and a fairly good description of mind&body, cause and effect and 3C.
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Daniel M. Ingram, modified 8 Years ago.

RE: Experience and questions with kasina practice.

Posts: 3192 Join Date: 4/20/09 Recent Posts
Spinning thing is 2nd.

Black dot is early 3rd

Wide out of phase things that go around the periphery around the black dot to the edges of perception are late 3rd

Must cross strange phase out thing to get to 4th

Fourth is fully-formed, luminous, complicated images like dreams but here...

Daniel
Matt N, modified 8 Years ago.

RE: Experience and questions with kasina practice.

Posts: 10 Join Date: 5/16/11 Recent Posts
Are those just a description of close eyed experiences of the jhanas? What about open eyed? I have a hard time getting anything beyond the spinning bright orange retinal image in close eyed, but I can get a lot of other phenominon going when I keep my eyes open.

http://kennethfolkdharma.wetpaint.com/thread/4219379/Accessing+Jhanas+1-4+via+Eye+Focus

Found this link which actually kind of describes a few stages I've been experiencing if this is actually accurate.

After another few days and like 8 sessions I've noticed a few things more clearly.

Starts off just noticing the yellow after image of the kasina overlaying it. Usually because of eye shifting there will be a little lunar eclipse like effect on one side of the circle.

After awhile of this the kasina will appear 3d, almost like a hole into my wall to a very intense and deep blue, like a hole into the ocean.

At this point weird visual things happen, either it will seem like the lights are dimming every few seconds or it will seem like the lights are getting more intense every other second. I noticed this has to do with the edges of my eyes slightly contracting then relaxing.

If I focus on the after image of the kasina and where it overlaps with the kasina, occasionally the kasina will flash in and out like the wall has overlapped it. My eyes will naturally start to cross from time to time at this point. Before I was resisting this but now after reading that article I go with it.

If I apply my concentration between the two discs my eyes will stay crossed for awhile, if I shift my eyes upwards a bit I start to feel the rapturous skin tingly thing I was talking about before for a few seconds.

After a minute or two my eyes will tire of being crossed and it will feel like I'm having to apply effort to do so, so I let them come back. I try to focus on sounds and panoramic view but I don't necessarily feel blissful or anything. I do feel pretty aware but it doesn't necessarily feel like an altered state, just kind of clear and present. I actually start to get bored like this and either end up starting the whole process over again or stop meditating. Not sure if I'm actually cementing 3rd or just dropping out of it and thinking I may be in 4th.

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