A random instance of Shaktipat in NYC?

Dino S, modified 9 Years ago at 8/23/12 2:58 PM
Created 9 Years ago at 8/23/12 2:58 PM

A random instance of Shaktipat in NYC?

Posts: 3 Join Date: 8/23/12 Recent Posts
Hello everyone,

I'm new here, new to meditation. (via way of DMT-nexus to MCTB and now here) I am writing this as a psuedo introductory post (skip to bold if you would like to skip some background info) and because, well, what I am about to describe has shattered my perception of reality MORE than any psychedelic experience I've had .. it is the most important thing that's ever happened in my life .. and I feel that it has set me on a path. A path that I would like to begin exploring, seriously. It has been some time (2-3 years) since the ravages of societal life have sucked me back in, since the event, but never has it left my mind, and it still resonates strongly within. I thank you in advance for your patience and considering my words.


It seems like the most significant events in your life happen at the most unexpected times and in places where you would never think they would be likely to occur.

To add a bit of background contrast to my story, two years ago I took a trip (I should say journey, really..) to South East Asia and traveled, overland for 8 months through the beautiful countries of Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, Thailand, and Malaysia. I went far and wide and of course reached nothing of the spiritual enlightenment I thought I would in lands filled with ancient cities, giant Buddhas, gold & jade temples, monks in saffron robes and wise and serene elephants. I had the entire gamut of experiences possible - I nearly died a couple of times, I met beautiful and exotic women, I pushed my body and mind training in martial arts, I ate a cobra's still beating heart and I witnessed the beauty and perseverance of the earth and its people even in lands & souls we had desecrated and scorched with napalm just a few short decades ago.

Even with this treasured time/education/experience of my life the spontaneous enlightenment and spiritual evolution I secretly expected to encounter remained as elusive as ever. I craved .. I yearned... something; at its basest, perhaps some "proof" of spiritual energy and/or of the divine. I knew I would never find "it" in the godless city of New York .. so it made sense to me that I might find "it" in the far East. Still, it wouldn't manifest.

I denounced religion at the ripe age of seven years old. I grew up in an ethnic Yugoslavian setting and remember to this day being at a relatives house and proclaiming to an older relative that "There is no God! We came from monkeys!" and he in turn chastising me by spanking me on my young behind. My household was ethnically Muslim but in all practicality, agnostic. At that age my favorite show was "Beyond 2000" and "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles."

I remained a passionate atheist throughout my rebellious adolescent/teenage years and when I discovered the term agnosticism I settled. It made sense. I recall the befuddled expressions in my 10th grade Italian class when I was the only one to proudly answer "Agnostic!" as my 'religion' of choice..

Not too long ago, in my lower 20s, I was working as a driver for a millionaire and just taking it day by day. Living, eating, drinking, going to school about sums it up.

One pleasant summer night, I had gone out with a few friends for some drinks. Not my usual crew of dipsomaniacs but a few friends I was still getting to know. They were generally calmer and less reckless than my usual drinking buddies.

There was about 5-6 of us and we were doing what a few million lost souls do every Friday/Saturday night in the city with more bars per square foot than anywhere in the world. It's cold and miserable here in the winter and when its not it's humid and sticky; NYC has a certain paradoxical quality - it can make one feel alone and bewildered in the crowds, disconnected from nature, disconnected from self. Libation seems to be the answer for many.

We were doing the barhopping thing and had had a few drinks... just warming up. Now, I'm of eastern European descent and I'm not a small dude, 6'3 and anywhere from 185-200 lbs. I also happen to have a pretty good alcohol tolerance, with plenty of early training from the ages of 14-20. 21 came, I hit the ground chugging.
Luckily by the age of this story (24ish) I had a few years in and calmed down. There's a moral to this story, bear with me!

Back to the streets of the Lower East Side in Manhattan. We had a few drinks at the first bar, nothing crazy .. warm up buzz achieved.. and left to move on to another spot.

We had just arrived and were all hanging out outside of the bar, shooting the sh*t. Our physical layout was thus: 4-5 of us congregated near the door and I was a few meters off to the side talking to this other kid.

As I exhaled tobacco smoke and dropped my cigarette to stomp it out, I noticed an interesting figure approaching from down the block. Now, New Yorkers are notorious for being completely apathetic to most occurrences that would end up on the front page of the SLC times. But this guy caught my attention.

The figure walking up the block looked to be in his late 20s or early 30s, about 6 feet tall and pretty lanky with a long beard and long hair. Typical Jesus/Hippie looking dude. Around his neck was a posterboard sign... I do not exactly remember the contents of it, but it was something concerning spiritual salvation. Spiritual - not Christian, Catholic, Judaic, etc... that much I know for sure.

Without thinking, as he walked past me I decided I should get his attention, apparently I had something to ask him. (It is rare that I will approach randomers on the street)

"Hey dude!" He stopped and turned around.

With a smirk, I inquired: "Know where I could get some LSD?"

He smiled back, warmly. "You don't need that."

"I know, I know. I get it, YOU don't need that. But I do. You look like the type of person who would know where to get some!"

He kept smiling. "You don't need that."

This gentle back and forth banter went on in similar fashion for a few moments until he approached me.

This is the point in the story where it becomes very difficult for me to explain myself fully. I will try to re-describe the scene as accurately (chronologically and mentally) as possible.

He approached me, standing a few feet away, paused and looked right at me. He said nothing further but instead opened his mouth slightly, and began to produce a very high pitched tone.



This is where I am almost at a loss for words.

SNAP. My mind blanked, caved in on itself. You know those old TV sets that go from a static channel and in a moment condense into a fading white line when you hit the power button? Well, someone hit the power button to my mind.

I really can't recall how long I was in this state, or what I looked like physically while it was happening or even what I "saw" during. I cannot even say that *I* was there, in the void, the ego is removed, floating in nothingness...

SNAP. I'm back...I'm aware, my vision is kind of fuzzy but I have returned and he's standing right in front of me, and in my peripheral vision I'm aware of my friend, a few feet further behind from me.

"Whoa..." I hear my friend exclaim softly.

A few seconds pass ...

"EEEEEEEEEEEEEE" he does it again.

SNAP. Back to the void, to nothingness? It is extremely frustrating and difficult to convey into words.. this part of the experience...

"EEEeeee.." the sound fades away.

SNAP. I'm back. My eyes feel watery, my vision is extremely blurred. Also, I'm high as a kite. HIGH!!

I notice that for a few moments when he finishes producing 'the sound'... when he "comes back" ... his eyes roll back into his head several times and his eyelids flutter. I cannot help but thinking that it gets him "high" too.

So ... in this ... newfound high state... I guess I am just sort of dumbfounded, I stand there like a reed in the breeze.

He decides to share one more story with me before he departs. Just prior to running in with me he had encountered a man who had approached him and started accosting him, verbally attacking him, ridiculing him, etc.
"He must have been high on on cocaine or something, because he had a very violently neurotic energy and his eyes were glassy..."
He explained how as Mr. Cokehead continued to harass and belittle him, he stood there, saying not a word, and used a technique that he called "mirroring" to direct all of his negative energy back at him.
"After a while, the guy broke down, started crying and apologizing. He was a mess."

With those words, he left. I put my hands to my forehead and bow-wai'd. He responds to my gesture with a knowing smile.

At the time, I felt no need for an explanation. I was high... perplexed as I may be today about the experience, at the time, I innately "understood" that he had somehow manipulated a vibrational energy field projecting it with the tone of his voice and it had clearly affected me greatly. This... peace and content with a profoundly moving and strange experience is a very peculiar thing to have happen to you.

To this day, I could totally see myself being an immature, skeptical a$$ (initially) if someone told me this story but..
All I can say is at the time, I was high ... but calm, and injected with a sense of understanding.

At that point, my night was done. DONE.

I went up to my friends and quickly, awkwardly said goodbye (I was high as hell).

No way in hell that I could continue drinking. In fact, it seemed absolutely ridiculous in light of what had just occurred. This guy just shattered my perception of reality, he just GOT ME HIGH on the street with nothing but his voice... this was not something my usually scientific and skeptical mind would EVER think was possible.

I walked to my car... in a haze, dazed, lost in my thoughts...out of the periphery there were voices. People. Socializing ... it's what people do.. they earn their paper money and go out and spend it and imbibe to loosen up and forget... Beeping of horns. Cars.. mechanical constructs. Laughter, shouting. Human emotion... empathy ...

Everything around me was broken down, everything seemed so INSIGNIFICANT ... drinking, social structures, money, jobs... it was all so.. ridiculously unimportant and artificial! It was so insignificant ... it just dwarfed on me...overwhelming me .. and to my surprise, I felt the hot lash of tears streaming down my face as I continued to walk on...

I cried the whole way, and when I reached my car, I collapsed within the drivers seat and began sobbing. I don't know WHY I was crying... it wasn't sadness, it wasn't joy, it wasn't anger, it wasn't fear, it wasn't regret. It's as if I cannot find the words to describe the emotion/experience that caused these tears to flow voluminously. I don't cry often at all.

Someone knocked on my window. I rolled it down.

The outside world was a colorful water painting.

"Dude, do you have a cigarette... oh, sh*t. You're crying. Are you all right dude?"

I managed to motion the person away while rolling up my window and nodding that I was ok. I could do no more.

I sat in my car for quite some time, until the tears subsided. I felt utterly exhausted, questioned if I could drive home in this state. I managed. The drive was serene and my mind was exceptionally clear on the way home.

I remember the utter, complete exhaustion as I collapsed into my bed and instantly fell asleep.

Heh. The funny thing about these experiences ... you have to go to work the next day. I did.

As I sat in my boss' $150,000 BMW, I felt a sense of peace and calm like I had never felt before. Even in the concrete jungle, I made an effort to park in front of some shrubs and a patch of grass, just to have something green and alive in front of me to stare at while I waited. As I sat, I meditated, without trying. I felt happy.. content .. whole..

..to this day, I cannot explain what happened to me ...

- Was this a display of siddhi by the "disciple" or a shaktipat?
- Can anyone describe the technique?
- How about "mirroring?"
- What 'school' does this technique fall under?
- Any other advice/insights ... guidance ... would be greatly appreciated.

P.S. I could not help but be reminded of Ram Dass' book Be Here Now. Apparently his Guru gets him higher than he ever got off LSD (and he got very high in his life..) with three taps to his forehead. His guru was also impervious/unaffected by very high LSD doses which he had given him.

I posted this on another forum and got a bunch of replies, mostly "whoa" etc. but it reverberated with one knowledgeable individual whose comments I will post with their permission, shortly. Thank you again for taking the time to read this.
Tommy M, modified 9 Years ago at 8/23/12 5:32 PM
Created 9 Years ago at 8/23/12 5:30 PM

RE: A random instance of Shaktipat in NYC?

Posts: 1199 Join Date: 11/12/10 Recent Posts
Hey Dino,

Welcome to the DhO, I used to frequent the Nexus a few years back!

Anyway, I'll save you any further "whoa's" and point out a couple of things which might help you bring this experience, cool as it was, back to ground and see what options are available to you from here. Since this was quite a while ago, I wouldn't exactly write it off as such, but don't allow it to become something to cling to or to hold onto as some huge deal; it sounds like it could have been "shaktipat" but a few things you mention might shed some light on the how of this thing.

I've had a theory about "shaktipat" for a while now, I've tested this out and done it effectively on five occasions in the past so I'm fairly confident that there's a psychological basis for it, and that it can be induced without any major level of 'spiritual' development. I suspect that "shaktipat" can be induced through a combination of framing and cognitive dissonance; you basically get someone into an open, accepting mind state, usually via non-verbal means such as gesture, voice tone, speech pacing, body language and suchlike, before doing something to introduce cognitive dissonance such as, as your man did, making some unexpected noise, pulling a ridiculous face, asking them a question then telling them they're wrong, or anything which causes the flow of normal communication to be interrupted. There's a split-second when this is done that a person becomes incredibly suggestible as their usual psychological defenses are dropped for an instant; you can implant so many things in their head without their conscious knowledge that it's scary. By the way, this is the same technique used by skilled pickpockets, street thieves, evangelists, fake guru's, cult leaders and other less than pleasant characters in the world...but it's fun to learn 'cause then you can't ever get fucked around by them! emoticon

You also mentioned how he "mirrored" the behaviour of Mr. Cokehead, this is just basic pacing and leading but done with a different intent to the usual salesman techniques. It's incredibly easy to do but can allow one to be ridiculously manipulative of others if done properly. My suspicion is that the guy was possibly 'awakened' to some extent, possibly initiated into some occult group or another, or possibly an ex-acid head who "found God" or something, but he almost certainly knew a fair bit about the practical application of NLP and the techniques of old-school mesmerists, evangelists and faith-healer types.

Something else you might be interested in knowing is that a classic part of the retelling of these sorts of stories is usually partly implanted by the person who caused the effect; you'll only remember certain aspects of it and will find it very difficult to recount them to another person due to the complete mental disconnect involved. This is also something hypnotists do using post-hypnotic suggestions to ensure that the person goes away with a positive memory of the experience.

That's not to say that it wasn't an important experience, the fact that it brought you here and has caused you to want to get involved in meditation suggests that it was enough to cause you to look closer at reality. I also think I understand why you came here via the Nexus as something about the whole DMT thing somehow resonates with those sorts of paradigm shifts that can occur.

So, back to the present...What are you looking for through meditation and all this 'spiritual' hoodoo?
Daniel M Ingram, modified 9 Years ago at 8/24/12 12:47 AM
Created 9 Years ago at 8/24/12 12:47 AM

RE: A random instance of Shaktipat in NYC?

Posts: 3231 Join Date: 4/20/09 Recent Posts
I know of a few instances of things like this in a few friends and even two in myself.

Most likely, the territory of the A&P will be most explanatory.

I like Tommy's skepticism, and I think it has merit.

That said, the effect is clearly real.

I would practice well and figure out how to make this thing you have gotten a taste of more your baseline level of perceiving reality.

Interesting stuff,

Dino S, modified 9 Years ago at 8/26/12 10:59 PM
Created 9 Years ago at 8/26/12 10:59 PM

RE: A random instance of Shaktipat in NYC?

Posts: 3 Join Date: 8/23/12 Recent Posts
Sorry, Tommy but I simply cannot write this off as a cheap parlor trick. I appreciate the alternative viewpoint, but IMO you come off as somewhat jaded - "spiritual hoodoo?"

IMO, this guy was no Peter Popoff

I mentioned I was born and raised in an agnostic and scientifically skeptical environment... for a reason. Not to mention having spent almost my entire life in Brooklyn/NYC; I've seen my fair share of hustlers, street magicians, two timers, smooth talkers, crackheads, praise-the-lord preachers, salvation sluts, Willy Wonka wanna-be's and generic, washed up con men. So whilst I cannot explain the matter in its entirety, I am dubious as to your claims that I was simply "tricked" into an altered state of consciousness with a palatable meditative after effects lasting weeks.

I realize "answers" are going to be arbitrary at best. I realize "believing it" is a stretch. I'm not looking for anyone to accept it as truth - just to keep an open mind, and share a similar story if they have one.

I've posted this elsewhere and usually out of several hundred views and dozens of responses someone will come out and share their tale (often by means of PM)

So don't be shy, I know you are out there emoticon
Dino S, modified 9 Years ago at 8/26/12 11:03 PM
Created 9 Years ago at 8/26/12 11:03 PM

RE: A random instance of Shaktipat in NYC?

Posts: 3 Join Date: 8/23/12 Recent Posts
Daniel M. Ingram:
I know of a few instances of things like this in a few friends and even two in myself.

Most likely, the territory of the A&P will be most explanatory.

I like Tommy's skepticism, and I think it has merit.

That said, the effect is clearly real.

I would practice well and figure out how to make this thing you have gotten a taste of more your baseline level of perceiving reality.

Interesting stuff,


Thanks for your reply as well Daniel. I have delved into the world of meditation and ancient philosophies and am dedicating several hours a day on my research, as well as time for meditation, each and every day. I will take your advice on the A&P forum.

I have given up recreational drugs and alcohol to better find my path and to exhibit a clear mind and conscience in the meantime. I have promised to be less selfish and help others in need and to be there for my friends and family whenever they should require. I will probably do some charitable work for the first time in my life as well as joining a meditative retreat, a first as well. The journey of a thousand leagues begins with a single step... I am trying.
Tommy M, modified 9 Years ago at 8/27/12 4:12 AM
Created 9 Years ago at 8/27/12 4:04 AM

RE: A random instance of Shaktipat in NYC?

Posts: 1199 Join Date: 11/12/10 Recent Posts
Sorry, Tommy but I simply cannot write this off as a cheap parlor trick.

I didn't expect you to, nor ask you to. I suggested that you put this in perspective, otherwise you're likely to spend the foreseeable future looking for validation of that experience rather than making progress towards a greater understanding of what actually happened that day.

...but IMO you come off as somewhat jaded - "spiritual hoodoo?"

Hahaha! Jaded? Really?

The reason I place the word 'spiritual' in scare quotes is because it's a loaded term which people can easily misinterpret.

So whilst I cannot explain the matter in its entirety, I am dubious as to your claims that I was simply "tricked" into an altered state of consciousness with a palatable meditative after effects lasting weeks.

I never once suggested that you were "simply "tricked"", in fact I didn't even say the word "tricked" once in that post. I offered a theory based on years of spiritual practices, meditation, and magick, as well as study and practice of hypnotherapy, neurolinguistics and other areas involved with non-verbal communication which had allowed me to replicate the effect.

I'm not looking for anyone to accept it as truth - just to keep an open mind, and share a similar story if they have one.

I never doubted your sincerity or how profound the apparent after-effects must have been for you. As far as keeping an open mind goes, I could list pages of stuff that I've experienced over the last however many years I've been involved in this thing, but it doesn't mean that they have any objective validity and to invest all of your emotional energy into one, albeit impressive, experience is missing the point.

So don't be shy, I know you are out there

What is it that you want to achieve by posting this story? Are you looking to make progress in your own practice? If so, how would it help if others shared their stories? I ask these questions sincerely, not sarcastically; this site is focused on the practical aspects of meditation, anecdotes are all well and good but don't have a great deal of practical value.
David Stephen Aronson, modified 9 Years ago at 10/18/12 2:15 AM
Created 9 Years ago at 10/18/12 2:15 AM

RE: A random instance of Shaktipat in NYC?

Post: 1 Join Date: 10/17/12 Recent Posts
I would say that everything to do with the magical powers of the "mirroring" and the screetching "EEEEE" noise would have to be some part of formless realms which you happened to witness and experience by way of a random passerby who in that moment was a "key" to a point of encounter with spiritual value. I don't think the guy was a master in NLP techniques nor using his own set of street smarts and missionary hustle either, probably a wanderer with instincts that are too strange for anyone to explain and justify reasonably. People like that do exist, always staying off the radar, either by way of disconformity or privacy.

It's very hard to make actual distinctions in high-powered spiritual experiences because of the burden of the mind. The division of belief from reality encapsulates a very gross paradox that one can only get around by way of non-formal behavior in order to retain knowledge found in experiences of formless realms. Personally, from my experience you can only understand the mechanisms in the formless realm under the most extreme circumstances . Taken that certain strong spiritual experiences happen away from environments that resemble a rational setting for spiritual exploration there is a need for spiritual practices which adapt to the form of these circumstances.

I go by the way of ritual magick in mind for the sake of developing knowledge based in experiences like this. I've taught myself in the vein of Castaneda's Nagualism to look at something like this in terms of an omen which is in strict relation with specific "keys" which are present at the moment of the experience to reveal features of my own particular spiritual value in the formless realms. Then I use that to formulate shamanistic rituals and occult devotion practices which themselves change and are consequent to changes in my perception and experience.

I wouldn't call it a siddhi for the sake of the deeper theological implications held by notions of perfection which demand an extremely clear demonstration in relation to their experience. Shaktipat is the passing of energy from guru to disciple and that can't be said to have taken place between two strangers who never see each other again. Classifying it with one absolute term is a futile effort at best but in the capacity that you admit that it is unquestionably of divine origin it might be best to look at it through the nomenclature of abstract mother, father or sibling divinities identified by way of numbers.
Jeff Grove, modified 9 Years ago at 10/18/12 7:15 AM
Created 9 Years ago at 10/18/12 4:11 AM

RE: A random instance of Shaktipat in NYC?

Posts: 310 Join Date: 8/24/09 Recent Posts

I have heard a similar story the vowels correspond to different chakras (a,e,i o and u) and have an an affect of opening them. Feelings associated with the vowel sounds get transformed into energy, different vowels vibrate with certain parts of the body, removing blockages getting the energy to flow.

These parts also correspond to certain layers of consciousness, stimulating the corresponding layers of consciousness. Eeeee corresponding to the throat center and a higher state of consciousness

Uuuuu in the lumbar region
Ooooo in the dantain
Aaaaaa in the Heart
Eeeee in the throat
Iiiii in the head

Try it

enjoyed your story