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Friend suffering kundalini syndrome - requesting help

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Friend suffering kundalini syndrome - requesting help Daniel Johnson 9/5/12 8:22 PM
RE: Friend suffering kundalini syndrome - requesting help Florian 8/30/12 8:44 AM
RE: Friend suffering kundalini syndrome - requesting help Ona Kiser 8/30/12 8:42 AM
RE: Friend suffering kundalini syndrome - requesting help Oliver Myth 8/31/12 12:00 PM
RE: Friend suffering kundalini syndrome - requesting help Change A. 8/31/12 9:18 PM
RE: Friend suffering kundalini syndrome - requesting help This Good Self 9/1/12 3:13 AM
RE: Friend suffering kundalini syndrome - requesting help -- Timus -- 9/1/12 4:18 AM
RE: Friend suffering kundalini syndrome - requesting help This Good Self 9/1/12 6:04 AM
RE: Friend suffering kundalini syndrome - requesting help This Good Self 9/1/12 6:55 AM
RE: Friend suffering kundalini syndrome - requesting help Change A. 9/1/12 7:47 AM
RE: Friend suffering kundalini syndrome - requesting help This Good Self 9/1/12 10:34 PM
RE: Friend suffering kundalini syndrome - requesting help N A 9/1/12 12:21 PM
RE: Friend suffering kundalini syndrome - requesting help Change A. 9/1/12 7:39 AM
RE: Friend suffering kundalini syndrome - requesting help -- Timus -- 9/1/12 8:30 AM
RE: Friend suffering kundalini syndrome - requesting help Taarantula Escargo 9/1/12 1:20 PM
RE: Friend suffering kundalini syndrome - requesting help Tom Tom 9/1/12 2:54 PM
RE: Friend suffering kundalini syndrome - requesting help This Good Self 9/1/12 10:20 PM
RE: Friend suffering kundalini syndrome - requesting help Tom Tom 9/2/12 3:48 AM
RE: Friend suffering kundalini syndrome - requesting help Tom Tom 9/1/12 3:05 PM
RE: Friend suffering kundalini syndrome - requesting help Nikolai . 9/2/12 6:27 AM
RE: Friend suffering kundalini syndrome - requesting help Gone, Gone. 9/2/12 4:27 PM
RE: Friend suffering kundalini syndrome - requesting help Tom M A 9/3/12 12:04 PM
RE: Friend suffering kundalini syndrome - requesting help Simon Ekstrand 9/6/12 12:07 PM
RE: Friend suffering kundalini syndrome - requesting help Simon Ekstrand 9/11/12 12:49 PM
RE: Friend suffering kundalini syndrome - requesting help Daniel Johnson 9/5/12 8:19 PM
RE: Friend suffering kundalini syndrome - requesting help Gone, Gone. 9/7/12 8:27 AM
RE: Friend suffering kundalini syndrome - requesting help Yadid dee 9/6/12 7:44 AM
RE: Friend suffering kundalini syndrome - requesting help Zyndo Zyhion 9/6/12 4:08 PM
RE: Friend suffering kundalini syndrome - requesting help Daniel Johnson 9/9/12 10:22 PM
RE: Friend suffering kundalini syndrome - requesting help Gone, Gone. 9/10/12 10:18 PM
RE: Friend suffering kundalini syndrome - requesting help Change A. 9/11/12 9:16 PM
RE: Friend suffering kundalini syndrome - requesting help Daniel Johnson 9/5/12 8:26 PM
RE: Friend suffering kundalini syndrome - requesting help Zyndo Zyhion 9/6/12 5:31 AM
RE: Friend suffering kundalini syndrome - requesting help Jeff Grove 9/6/12 9:12 AM
My friend has been trying to do fundraising to help with the disabling effects of his kundalini process.
He put up this video here:
http://www.indiegogo.com/helpdamian

I was wondering if anyone had any comments or thoughts. I thought also maybe it would be interesting and worth sharing in this community, since I suppose it is one of the dangers of practice.

If you don't want to watch the video, basically, for a few years he has had to deal with muscle spasms that he claims occur involuntarily. He says that he can sorta hold them back while he does stuff in the world, but it's very painful for him to do that. So, it makes it difficult for him to function. He says he went through about 2 years of a Dark Night, but these days seems to be more at peace and not suffering a whole lot, just debilitated by the muscle spasms.

It started when he was practicing according to the instructions on Adyashanti's True Meditation CD.

Any thoughts?

RE: Friend suffering kundalini syndrome - requesting help
Answer
8/30/12 8:44 AM as a reply to Daniel Johnson.
That sounds like it really sucks! My experience with this kind of thing is limited to a few instances of waking up at night because of my spine going very straight and rigid. Usually happened in A&P territory.

Chuck Kasmire has some good hints in this thread: Meditation causes a disabling heaviness on the top of the head

More good hints here: Spasms while meditating - even though your friend is experiencing these off-cushion, there is good advice in the thread.

Two teachers who themselves experienced a lot of kundalini suffering: "Swami G" and her student "Siddhananda". Apart from the interviews, I know nothing about them. I hadn't come across cases as extreme as theirs, and your friend's report sounds very similar.

I hope your friend find a good way to deal with this.

Cheers,
Florian

RE: Friend suffering kundalini syndrome - requesting help
Answer
8/30/12 8:42 AM as a reply to Daniel Johnson.
It sounds like he's gone to the sort of people who might be able to evaluate and support him. I'm a little surprised that "spiritual teachers" were of no use. Any of the traditional energy work systems like qi gong, accupuncture, kundalini yoga and so on work with sorting out energy imbalances and are familiar with all the twitching and shouting. They also teach practices for releasing excess energy and managing blockages. Of course there can be a cost but barter can be arranged in some cases, depending on where you live. I wish him the best.

I'm guessing (because I don't know) that a half-awakened kundalini thing is more or less like a dark night - if you back off practice it will die down to a low sullen murmur after a while, but the problem will never be sorted until you actually continue practice and let the process finish. But in a seriously difficult case like this such a return to practice would best be done under the supervision of a knowledgeable teacher, I'd think.

RE: Friend suffering kundalini syndrome - requesting help
Answer
8/31/12 12:00 PM as a reply to Ona Kiser.
That all sounds horrible, but I'm glad to hear he isn't suffering as much lately.

aypsite.org has fantastic resources for this type of thing and many articles on kundalini symptoms.

I experience a calm and controlled kundalini experience rising and falling along the spine as a normal everyday thing, which was cultivated from daily practice. Uncontrolled spasms sounds horrible and seems to suggest lots of blockages.

The perineum is the granddaddy of focus points for getting a quick bit of mental peace from suffering caused by muscular tensions, ime, as long as the attention is held there long enough. I would be interested if it worked for him.

Wishing the best,
Oliver

RE: Friend suffering kundalini syndrome - requesting help
Answer
8/31/12 9:18 PM as a reply to Oliver Myth.
Oliver Myth:
The perineum is the granddaddy of focus points for getting a quick bit of mental peace from suffering caused by muscular tensions, ime, as long as the attention is held there long enough. I would be interested if it worked for him.


I would second that. Watching the video, it looked like the spasms first start out in the lower stomach region and then move upwards, so I think that focusing on the perineum would be helpful in case he has some meditation experience.

RE: Friend suffering kundalini syndrome - requesting help
Answer
9/1/12 3:13 AM as a reply to Daniel Johnson.
Daniel Johnson:
My friend has been trying to do fundraising to help with the disabling effects of his kundalini process.
He put up this video here:
http://www.indiegogo.com/helpdamian

I was wondering if anyone had any comments or thoughts. I thought also maybe it would be interesting and worth sharing in this community, since I suppose it is one of the dangers of practice.

If you don't want to watch the video, basically, for a few years he has had to deal with muscle spasms that he claims occur involuntarily. He says that he can sorta hold them back while he does stuff in the world, but it's very painful for him to do that. So, it makes it difficult for him to function. He says he went through about 2 years of a Dark Night, but these days seems to be more at peace and not suffering a whole lot, just debilitated by the muscle spasms.

It started when he was practicing according to the instructions on Adyashanti's True Meditation CD.

Any thoughts?


As you know, Adyashanti is one of the world's best teachers, and his true meditation is superb. But it just goes to show, if you have low self-esteem, you shouldn't be meditating at all, no matter how good the technique.

RE: Friend suffering kundalini syndrome - requesting help
Answer
9/1/12 4:18 AM as a reply to This Good Self.
C C C:
... But it just goes to show, if you have low self-esteem, you shouldn't be meditating at all, no matter how good the technique.

Are you under the impression that the guy had a low self-esteem when he started to meditate?

RE: Friend suffering kundalini syndrome - requesting help
Answer
9/1/12 6:04 AM as a reply to -- Timus --.
Probably, but "timid" would be a better way to express the personality defect.

Real meditation, practised correctly, requires the courage to will your own death (in all but the physical sense). People pretend like it's not a matter of "life and death", but it is. You have to be able to sit calmly and just watch yourself die. Really die. Does anyone here think it's not the case??

It's all very well to say that it only looks horrific to the ego, and that from the other side it's all laughs because the ego was never real in the first place, just illusion... but from this side, where we all sit... the prospect is horrifying. So it requires enormous courage. When I watch footage of people jumping from the top of the Twin Towers as they burn, I think that's the required attitude. It's just a terrible sight, but for me that's the mindset required to get enlightened. Let go and fall, fall, fall..... "I'm done, I'm finished, I'm over..." fall. fall and surrender.

So who has that courage? Not many. If you did, you'd be enlightened. The price has to be extremely high, otherwise the members here would have all been freed. The price must be extreme. It's a small dose of skill, a bit of technique, some time, and shitload of courage.

So if you can't handle that, what about some smaller fears first? Can you walk into work with your pants around your knees? Can you get up and talk in front of an audience of 200 totally unprepared? Can you look your boss in the eye and tell him he's a fuckwit? Can you approach a stranger on the street and tell her you think she's hot? Can you skydive? Can you bungey jump? Can you drive at 150km/hr in a 50km zone? Can you fail an exam? Can you start a street fight with a guy twice your size? According to your conditioning, some of these things will be easy, others will be very hard.

Unless you can do all of this sort of thing very easily, why would even attempt to jump to your death? Your ego will step in and stop the process so swiftly you won't even notice it happening. You just get shunted straight through to depression. "Do not pass Go, do not collect $200".

Am I any more courageous? No. I'm working on that list.

RE: Friend suffering kundalini syndrome - requesting help
Answer
9/1/12 6:55 AM as a reply to This Good Self.
.... and I work on it this way:

People say "just watch the fear and it will pass" - well I've tried that with existential fear and I've tried it with every day fears, and it doesn't work. When you just watch without judgment and without aversion, the fear either intensifies or stays the same. Haven't you noticed?? It doesn't fucken work!! The best approach is to realize *what fear is*, then change it.

STOP thinking of fear as fear - that's too nebulous..

Fear is an expectation.

Fear is an expectation of pain - physical and/or emotional.

If you simply change from negative to positive expectations, and really trust them to support you, then fear disappears. The reason why anyone gets afraid of anything is due to the fact that we believe our feelings are somehow legitimate. We take them as real. But if you experiment with changing the polarity (+ve, -ve) and see what happens, you find that circumstances change accordingly. When you do fear, there's more to be afraid of. When you feel confident, there's nothing to fear. So you don't overcome fear, you notice what effect it has, then choose not to indulge in it. Fear attracts pain. Confidence attracts good circumstances. So don't *do* fear, because you don't want pain. It's so easy to fall into the trap that you believe fear because it's just left as this nebulous unexamined feeling. The reality is that it's a thought about the expectation of pain. When you know that, you don't do it.

So the way to be able to walk into work with your pants around your knees is to do it with the expectation that everyone thinks you're cool or funny. Maybe you can do this already. So try something that scares the shit out of you and do it with positive expectation. The expectation must be one of acceptance and positive tone.

Then you understand fear. Then when you get to meditating, and you reach the precipice and it's pushing you over the edge and into the Void, you apply the same positive expectation. Then you don't need to be a hero. Then it's not "fuck I'm dying", but a natural transitioning from self to no-self. If it's hard then it's hard, and it's not going to work if it's hard.

Yeh yeh I know... there's some contradiction in my posts. Whatever.

RE: Friend suffering kundalini syndrome - requesting help
Answer
9/1/12 7:39 AM as a reply to This Good Self.
C C C:
You have to be able to sit calmly and just watch yourself die. Really die. Does anyone here think it's not the case??


I think it is the case. Therefore I think that death meditation is really important.

RE: Friend suffering kundalini syndrome - requesting help
Answer
9/1/12 7:47 AM as a reply to This Good Self.
C C C:
If you simply change from negative to positive expectations, and really trust them to support you, then fear disappears.


The way I go about it is that I don't expect anything because I can see that it is a sort of dream to think about the future and it may not unfold as to how I might be expecting it to be (either positive or negative). Future result may turn out to be negative when I might have been expecting it to be positive and vice versa. Anyways, when one can look into the eyes of death, negative stop bothering because what can be more negative than death.

RE: Friend suffering kundalini syndrome - requesting help
Answer
9/1/12 8:30 AM as a reply to This Good Self.
C C C:
Probably, but "timid" would be a better way to express the personality defect. ...

How did you come to this conclusion? Just by watching the video, or did you talk to him?

RE: Friend suffering kundalini syndrome - requesting help
Answer
9/1/12 1:20 PM as a reply to -- Timus --.
Sounds very debilitating.

RE: Friend suffering kundalini syndrome - requesting help
Answer
9/1/12 12:21 PM as a reply to This Good Self.
C C C:
People say "just watch the fear and it will pass" - well I've tried that with existential fear and I've tried it with every day fears, and it doesn't work. When you just watch without judgment and without aversion, the fear either intensifies or stays the same. Haven't you noticed?? It doesn't fucken work!! The best approach is to realize *what fear is*, then change it.

Maybe it's wanting for the fear to pass that's blocking your progress. You're not supposed to "make it pass", you're supposed to examine it, see that it's not you (anatta) and let go of it (letting go doesn't mean "make it go away"). It's just a sensation like any other, stop identifying with it. Hope that helps.

RE: Friend suffering kundalini syndrome - requesting help
Answer
9/1/12 2:54 PM as a reply to This Good Self.
But it just goes to show, if you have low self-esteem, you shouldn't be meditating at all, no matter how good the technique.


Real meditation, practised correctly, requires the courage to will your own death (in all but the physical sense). People pretend like it's not a matter of "life and death", but it is. You have to be able to sit calmly and just watch yourself die. Really die. Does anyone here think it's not the case??


Many people with """low self-esteem""" want to kill themselves. Many many actually go out and do it. It takes more guts to jump off a bridge or hang yourself than to get enlightened. Therefore your argument is invalid as it presupposes that people with """low self-esteem""" are more afraid of death, when the opposite is generally true. Generally, people with """high self-esteem""" are far more afraid of death than people with """low self-esteem.""" Though I agree that such people should never start at insight practices, but rather start with more basic forms of meditation first.

You want to argue otherwise? Go to the nearest highway bypass, look down, and think about jumping.

RE: Friend suffering kundalini syndrome - requesting help
Answer
9/1/12 3:05 PM as a reply to This Good Self.
Can you start a street fight with a guy twice your size?]


WTF!? I think you've watched "fight club" one too many times...Tyler Durden was not enlightened, he was a nut job.

RE: Friend suffering kundalini syndrome - requesting help
Answer
9/2/12 6:27 AM as a reply to Tom Tom.
Get him to book a session or few of zen shiatsu or some other type of shiatsu from a reputed practitoner. In my experience and that of others, it can help move 'stuff' along and balance 'stuff' too. Also get him to consider some exercise regime to direct the excess energy to somewhere helpful. I have found the following exercises when done regularly to help even out any out of the norm energetic stuff.

http://www.sohoshiatsu.com/SohoShiatsu/Exercises.html

RE: Friend suffering kundalini syndrome - requesting help
Answer
9/1/12 10:20 PM as a reply to Tom Tom.
Tom A Vitale:
But it just goes to show, if you have low self-esteem, you shouldn't be meditating at all, no matter how good the technique.


Real meditation, practised correctly, requires the courage to will your own death (in all but the physical sense). People pretend like it's not a matter of "life and death", but it is. You have to be able to sit calmly and just watch yourself die. Really die. Does anyone here think it's not the case??


Many people with """low self-esteem""" want to kill themselves. Many many actually go out and do it. It takes more guts to jump off a bridge or hang yourself than to get enlightened. Therefore your argument is invalid as it presupposes that people with """low self-esteem""" are more afraid of death, when the opposite is generally true. Generally, people with """high self-esteem""" are far more afraid of death than people with """low self-esteem.""" Though I agree that such people should never start at insight practices, but rather start with more basic forms of meditation first.

You want to argue otherwise? Go to the nearest highway bypass, look down, and think about jumping.


When researchers interview people who have suicided with every attempt to actually die, but who were revived, not one of them wants to die. They want to escape pain. When a person jumps off a bridge, the mind easily holds the idea that *something* of the self will continue after the body is gone. Why does it do this? Because it can't bear the thought of actual non-existence, of no-self. Bodily death?... yes, the mind can just manage to handle that concept in the face of extreme pain, but not actual death of self. Your rebuttal doesn't hold up. You're confusing bodily death with death of self.

RE: Friend suffering kundalini syndrome - requesting help
Answer
9/1/12 10:34 PM as a reply to Change A..
Aman A.:
C C C:
If you simply change from negative to positive expectations, and really trust them to support you, then fear disappears.


The way I go about it is that I don't expect anything because I can see that it is a sort of dream to think about the future and it may not unfold as to how I might be expecting it to be (either positive or negative). Future result may turn out to be negative when I might have been expecting it to be positive and vice versa. Anyways, when one can look into the eyes of death, negative stop bothering because what can be more negative than death.


Yeh I agree with that, but not for this guy in the video, and probably not for me either. I think of people as being on "this bank (positive), that bank (negative) or the river in between (neutral)" as the saying goes.

Certain people need to push hard off the negative bank. Others need to push hard off the positive bank. But to get anywhere useful it's much easier to drift downstream along the positive bank of the river, then push off into the centre as you need. There's much more urgency in needing to push off the negative bank because it's painful to live there. More impetus is good I guess.

There's the saying about the rich man (positive bank) having more difficulty entering into heaven than the camel through the eye of a needle, and while that's true, I think it's even harder for a poor man (negative bank). Tolle was a "poor man" who managed to go from horrible psychic pain to enlightened, but IMO he could have flipped out just as easily.

RE: Friend suffering kundalini syndrome - requesting help
Answer
9/2/12 3:48 AM as a reply to This Good Self.
When researchers interview people who have suicided with every attempt to actually die, but who were revived, not one of them wants to die. They want to escape pain. When a person jumps off a bridge, the mind easily holds the idea that *something* of the self will continue after the body is gone. Why does it do this? Because it can't bear the thought of actual non-existence, of no-self. Bodily death?... yes, the mind can just manage to handle that concept in the face of extreme pain, but not actual death of self. Your rebuttal doesn't hold up. You're confusing bodily death with death of self.


I think we're all doing this to end dukkha. If there were life with no dukkha, this would not be relevant. However, life is dukkha, but fortunately there is an end to dukkha in this life.

Anyways, I would prefer that this thread get re-directed to helping Daniel's friend.

here's the saying about the rich man (positive bank) having more difficulty entering into heaven than the camel through the eye of a needle, and while that's true, I think it's even harder for a poor man (negative bank). Tolle was a "poor man" who managed to go from horrible psychic pain to enlightened, but IMO he could have flipped out just as easily.


Yes, it is a tricky balance of neither too "rich: (god realm) nor too "poor" (hell realm) though conditions are such that you have to start somewhere that is never going to be perfectly ideal for anyone. Though there are rare cases of avatars (people born enlightened)

RE: Friend suffering kundalini syndrome - requesting help
Answer
9/2/12 4:27 PM as a reply to Nikolai ..
If this is indeed kundalini, I second Body Work. Since the symptoms are so physical this should unblock the energy - or bring awareness to the clenching, causing it to subside. I'd also recommend slower, relaxing yoga, something like Sivananda, as yoga is directly designed to open the channels.

However, it is very strange that the shaking has lasted years though - and that it persisted during and after Dark Night... Self-diagnosing this as "kundalini syndrome" is maybe not accurate. Kundalini is not a syndrome or disease. It's an awakening.

Most importantly I'd look strongly at the motivations for asking for $50,000. How is 50K going to help a process of Spiritual Development? Think about it. If anything it's going to rigidify the identity patterns that are making this happen along with creating plenty of new attachments along the way. What is preventing the end of this that 50K can solve? In all honesty, it makes me very skeptical.

If this is the real deal, he may not be able to go back to life as it was, and will need to come to terms with that. Letting go is the way.

RE: Friend suffering kundalini syndrome - requesting help
Answer
9/3/12 12:04 PM as a reply to Daniel Johnson.
I had a friend who experienced similar spasms last year, but just when meditating. He has meditated for 19 years, his TM teacher didn't have a clue as to what it was. Another friend told him of Robert Smith's work, so he found a practitioner and after the first session it stopped, after the second he's never had a spasm again. Coincidentally, it also cleared up his sinus problem which he's had since childhood.

Check it out here... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBr4tD18uu4&feature=bf_prev&list=PLB0F36C2C7F4BB94D

RE: Friend suffering kundalini syndrome - requesting help
Answer
9/5/12 8:19 PM as a reply to Daniel Johnson.
Wow, it's cool to see all the comments here. I will pass on some of this info to my friend and see if anything helps him. Here are a couple of comments in response to everyone:

- For him, basically the convulsing is one and the same as his meditation practice. He lies down and then, according to him, "let's go of all control." At that point, he starts convulsing and yapping and what not. He reports that this practice of letting go of control is the best practice and most helpful for him, he claims it makes him feel better, and opens him up to be more loving, compassionate, awake, etc. So, he isn't suffering when he meditates/convulses, but rather he finds himself suffering when he is not meditating/convulsing, because that is when he has to force the kundalini not to move and he reports this as being exhausting and painful. (This is my paraphrasing of what he's told me, as best I remember). So, he seems to think that the best practice is to just continue to let go and allow the process to unfold and not try to control the kundalini or anything and just let it do it's thing.

- What he is having difficulty with isn't the practice or the convulsions, but the ability to work and maintain a sustainable lifestyle without suffering the pain of repressed kundalini. That's why he is asking for help with money and whatnot so that he can just spend more time doing his meditation practice of just letting go of control.

- He has been to many spiritual teachers, and I don't think they have been "no use." Rather, they have just confirmed for him that the best thing to do is just to not control it and let it run it's course. Some have suggested different energy practices (chi gong, etc.), which he says he has tried, but he still finds the best practice is to just let go and let it be. I'm not sure if he considers it an "imbalance" or "blockage" or something to be corrected or mitigated, I think he looks at it more as the body doing what it needs to do to deal with the process of awakening.

- I don't think there is any way back for him, such as backing off on the practice. Like he says, if he tries to hold it in, that is when he suffers the most (hence his desire to retreat from the world right now.)

- Thanks for the links (aypsite.org, Shiatsu, etc.) I will pass them on.

- CCC, with regards to Adyashanti, my friend has been on retreat with him and asked questions of him personally. Adya has made no mention that my friend is practicing incorrectly or that he shouldn't be meditating at all. I don't know of any evidence that he has low self-esteem, although he may have when he started. Also, I don't see any evidence that his involuntary convulsions are in any way related to self-esteem. Also, from all of his reports, I never got the sense that he was "timid." I think he has very much faced the process of ego death, and that is why he has been so succesful in his practice. Also, I've never detected any sense of regret that he doesn't want to be on this path. He seems quite ok with the path and his practice, and I think this is his attempt to deal with it the best he can. On a more personal note, it sounds like you have been wandering around in the fear nyana lately.

- I think he has tried a number of practices and exercises to alleviate the contractions and convulsions, but again... what he claims is that the best way for him to move stuff along and balance stuff out is just to lie down and let it all happen of it's own accord.

- As for "kundalini syndrome"... according to my friend, and to wikipedia, there is such a thing as kundalini syndrome. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kundalini_syndrome
He has not only self-diagnosed it as such, but he has had teachers who have diagnosed it as the same thing. Personally, I am skeptical, but at least I can say he's not the only one who believes this stuff.

- Regarding the motivation for wanting $50,000... It is an interesting question to raise. I think if you asked him, he'd say that it will help his spiritual development because it will allow him to devote all of his time to his practice of meditation, thus alleviating the suffering and furthering the progress of his development. He has also said that he'd be happy to live in a spiritual community, except he is insistent on being able to practice in his own (unique) way... and many center won't just allow you to lie down and convulse all day without contributing anything to the community. However, if anyone does know of a community like this, he would be very interested to know about it.

- Finally, I am somewhat skeptical of his diagnosis and prescription, but it is definitly not just a scam to get $50,000. I have seen him going through these contractions and it is very real when it's happening.

Any more thoughts? It's so great to hear all of your input.

RE: Friend suffering kundalini syndrome - requesting help
Answer
9/5/12 8:26 PM as a reply to Daniel Johnson.
This was in an email from my friend...
Damian:
Funny story: I asked Adya why he didn't warn his readers about the risks in his book, True Meditation. He responded: "Bad marketing."

RE: Friend suffering kundalini syndrome - requesting help
Answer
9/6/12 5:31 AM as a reply to Daniel Johnson.
Bad Marketing, Hilarious!
On another note how did all the Eq stuff go for you? Haven't seen your name on the list for a while? emoticon

RE: Friend suffering kundalini syndrome - requesting help
Answer
9/7/12 8:27 AM as a reply to Daniel Johnson.
OK. Your response made me even more skeptical. One cannot keep kundalini shakti down by effort. That is ridiculous.

Just because it says Kundalini Syndrome is real on Wikipedia doesn't make it so. Kundalini is ancient metaphor from hatha yoga for the energy of nature that opens and flows abundantly on the spiritual path. This energy is absolutely very real and the phenomenon of awakening can be intensely dramatic. Physical tremors, involuntary movement, and shaking can be involved. But the hallmark is a radically altered state of consciousness and "seeing God." All the physical stuff is like a side effect. Kundalini awakening is the same thing as the A&P. It passes, and then needs to be integrated.

It's some weird convention of of a few western psychiatrists that have made it into a syndrome. In terms of a spiritual syndrome, it makes more sense to talk of the Dark Night, which definitely follows and can last a long time.

If this only happens while he's meditating, he may be doing something to egg it on - like if it's perceived as a catharsis of "kundalini" rather than a blockage or contraction that needs to be observed. Maybe "letting go" is seen as catharsis? I only suggest this due to the extremely long duration. I don't mean to be harsh, but there's so much disinformation and mystification around kundalini awakenings online. It makes real information difficult to come by and then people think it's just rolling around on the floor and sticking your tongue out.

The money thing looks like a scam.

RE: Friend suffering kundalini syndrome - requesting help
Answer
9/6/12 7:44 AM as a reply to Gone, Gone..
I hope he recovers from this.

Gotta say though, $50k is a lot of money where I come from, and it is also very expensive here even compared to the states.
Is that what it costs to sustain one person in modest living conditions in the US?

RE: Friend suffering kundalini syndrome - requesting help
Answer
9/6/12 9:12 AM as a reply to Daniel Johnson.
There is a natural order in the flow of qi thru the body, disharmony in this flow thru the 6 layers - skin, muscle, tendons, bone, blood vessels and inner organs can manifest in spontaneous outward movement. Without the accumulation of sufficient energy to push thru blocked channels this energy often disperses via the muscles.

The main causes typically are improper respiration, improper posture or mental and emotional disturbances, preoccupied mind, fear and pride, lack of commitment, stressful life, environmental disturbances or to much mental concentration - a strong focus and attention on the flow of qi which can distort the energy's pathways.

The outward movement is evidence of energetic re-patterning which is considered normal unless the person is having a hard time stopping then its qi deviation. 5 element energies are manifested thru the 5 different body and tissue movements. After meditating for a period (30mims - 1 hr) the person can be diagnosed as the organs will physically manifest the energetic disposition. When the body's organs become energised certain reactions indicate which element is out of balance.
The 5 element uncontrollable muscle deviations are :
Wood or Liver Qi is responsible for the dispersal of qi and an over abundance is manifested by expansive outward movements in all directions causing the body to sway with soft gentle movements
Fire or Heart Qi over abundance is evident thru the upward ascending movement by the flaring up of yang heat manifested in jerky upward movements like a flame crackling in a fire
Earth or Spleen Qi overabundance causes movements that are both smooth and swift progressing in a circular way similar to a spinning ball
Metal or Lung Qi is evident thru twitching of the torso contracting inward causing the body to violently jerk from side to side (think of the body as a bell being struck violently)
Water or Kidney qi overabundance is characterized as an awkward heavy downward action ( think of waterfall descending on rocks)

Building a strong foundation via qigong before progressing onto meditation will help by removing dirty qi, dredging the blocked channels, opening the acupoints, exercising the muscle, bone and skin externally and refining the energy before opening the 3 main passes in the small circulation. Unless self control is relatively weak you can tell yourself to "slow down gently", place left hand on the middle dantain and use the right to strike the mingmen 3 times while directing your attention down to the feet focus on yong quan and have the energy go deep into the earth at least 3 meters, lightly slap down the back and sides of the thighs and lower legs helps root dirty qi into the earth

RE: Friend suffering kundalini syndrome - requesting help
Answer
9/6/12 12:07 PM as a reply to Tom M A.
Tom M A:
I had a friend who experienced similar spasms last year, but just when meditating. He has meditated for 19 years, his TM teacher didn't have a clue as to what it was. Another friend told him of Robert Smith's work, so he found a practitioner and after the first session it stopped, after the second he's never had a spasm again. Coincidentally, it also cleared up his sinus problem which he's had since childhood.

Check it out here... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBr4tD18uu4&feature=bf_prev&list=PLB0F36C2C7F4BB94D


Right, I've also had a bit of trouble with this while meditating lately as I described recently in this post:
http://www.dharmaoverground.org/web/guest/discussion/-/message_boards/message/3449518

I decided to take a look at the youtube link to see what this was about, and have as a result of that spent the last few days practicing the faster EFT method just based on the information given on beginners section of their youtube channel.

So far, it's amazing. I now have no problems with body movements while sitting and my concentration has improved... lots, and this from a fews days of practicing, without a teacher. The, um, "mind-movement"? that was the precursor to the body movements is simply not arising as it did before.

I have some thoughts why this method has seemingly, so far, been so successful for me, but I think I'll leave that for a proper post in a couple of weeks once things shake out and I've seen that the effects last.

Either way, it's fun stuff, I'm really curious what effect it would have on the OP's friend.

Metta,
Simon

RE: Friend suffering kundalini syndrome - requesting help
Answer
9/6/12 4:08 PM as a reply to Gone, Gone..
Its pretty common knowledge that the kriyas can be spontaneous, i get jumps and twitches that can be really strong sometimes and they are hard to control on occasions and the easiest thing is just to let them flow. But you can relax them out or more specifically I can. I have found out through discussion that many people in the kriya traditions will kind of improvise and allow spontaneous movement or breath to kind of open them. But there are some people that really do get really strong compulsions to breath intensely or wriggle catharticly or assume some yoga like posture and they can't control it.

Once while going for an audition at an Acting school I got energetic catharsis, strong flowing, tingling, prickly, sensations flowing down my arms. These caused spasm in my hands and I couldn't open my fingers, which had pinched together in a Mudra like formation. I could force these fingers open but it took great effort also my lips had clenched in a weird way that made talking a tongue and throat thing.

Most people kind of put it on, or dance it out in an improvised manner. That's the way I've seen or heard or discussed that most people do it, in traditions like kriya or also in the rebirthing process.

Also 50k is a hell of a lot to ask for outright, greed or need, drama or karma, spoilt or foible?

RE: Friend suffering kundalini syndrome - requesting help
Answer
9/9/12 10:22 PM as a reply to Gone, Gone..
John B.:
OK. Your response made me even more skeptical. One cannot keep kundalini shakti down by effort. That is ridiculous.


I am skeptical too about the causes, the nature of it, and the perhaps subtle ways in which his self/identity may be creating or interfering with it, but what I can testify for certain is that something is happening to him. He calls it Kundalini Syndrome, and that's fine with me.

John B.:
But the hallmark is a radically altered state of consciousness and "seeing God." All the physical stuff is like a side effect. Kundalini awakening is the same thing as the A&P. It passes, and then needs to be integrated.


Sounds very much like how he describes his awakening experience which started it all.

John B.:
In terms of a spiritual syndrome, it makes more sense to talk of the Dark Night, which definitely follows and can last a long time.


He doesn't appear to be experiencing any Dark Night type symptoms these days (misery, fear, disgust, etc.) It seems to be mostly physical, and he appears to me to be quite at peace with life.

John B.:
If this only happens while he's meditating, he may be doing something to egg it on


This is what I wonder, though I don't think it's conscious. But perhaps in a very subtle way, the activity of the self/identity is egging it on.

John B.:
I don't mean to be harsh, but there's so much disinformation and mystification around kundalini awakenings online. It makes real information difficult to come by and then people think it's just rolling around on the floor and sticking your tongue out.


Sure. And, given that kundalini is not at all a scientifically verified phenomena... what makes you take such a stance as an authority on it? Is it possible that perhaps there is still much we don't know about such things?

John B.:
The money thing looks like a scam.


Yes. I have no idea how he came up with $50,000. He said he thought he might not be able to work for a year or two, but that certainly doesn't require $50,000 (not even in the Bay Area.) I think a person could live in the SF bay area for about $20,000 per year, if keeping a tight budget.

At any rate, he is closing the fundraiser and taking out the $1,000 he raised so far. This is what he wrote to me:

Damian:
"Strangely, I'm not particularly afraid; I'm actually kind of excited to step head first into the fear of poverty I've had most of my life, in order to overcome it."

RE: Friend suffering kundalini syndrome - requesting help
Answer
9/10/12 10:18 PM as a reply to Daniel Johnson.
I'm just some dude on the internet so please take what I say with discrimination and test it out for yourself. Discrimination is precisely the reason for skepticism regarding the nature of your friend's video. My previous note came off as too dismissive. I really am trying to offer helpful advice and it sounds like he's moving in the right direction.

All that said, I have experienced many energy and chakra openings. There are a number of openings that can be pretty dramatic and really shift perception, behavior, and concentration abilities. Some of them can have the "kriyas." But I'd prefer to keep the term kundalini to designate a very particular opening that is life changing, where the energy rises up the sushumna and opens the crown chakra, as it's traditionally described. I don't see any reason to call this a syndrome, although it may make one aware of stress and patterns that they need to get rid of.

It may not seem like it until you study it for awhile, but yoga is a science, and so are other energy practices like qi gong. This energetic/spiritual connection has been developed for a really long time. Also how to deal with side effects from an opening that may be blocked - like what happened to your friend. So I'd look to these sources for help and how to balance this stuff - this could be yoga, qi gong, body work, etc. If one teacher can't help, keep looking. That shiatsu PDF would be a good place to start in the meantime - interestingly it's very similar postures to the Hatha Yoga Pradipika, an older text that's explicitly about kundalini.

I'll try to explain the reason that this stuff works in a less esoteric way. Habitual emotional and thought patterns have corresponding muscular contraction that creates blockages. These things are psycho-somatic and build up over a lifetime of stress. The body is the unconscious mind. During a spiritual opening these blocks need to be unclenched. This can happen through awareness, looking into area of pain. But often these areas or movements are still unconscious. The mind cannot penetrate. That's when a physical practice can open them up. When it does, the habitual patterns of behavior open up too and release can be found.

The psycho-somatic nature of all this is why I'm suggesting it's not helpful to look at it as a syndrome or a disease or some sort of affliction.

RE: Friend suffering kundalini syndrome - requesting help
Answer
9/11/12 12:49 PM as a reply to Simon Ekstrand.
Simon E:
Tom M A:
I had a friend who experienced similar spasms last year, but just when meditating. He has meditated for 19 years, his TM teacher didn't have a clue as to what it was. Another friend told him of Robert Smith's work, so he found a practitioner and after the first session it stopped, after the second he's never had a spasm again. Coincidentally, it also cleared up his sinus problem which he's had since childhood.

Check it out here... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBr4tD18uu4&feature=bf_prev&list=PLB0F36C2C7F4BB94D


Right, I've also had a bit of trouble with this while meditating lately as I described recently in this post:
http://www.dharmaoverground.org/web/guest/discussion/-/message_boards/message/3449518

I decided to take a look at the youtube link to see what this was about, and have as a result of that spent the last few days practicing the faster EFT method just based on the information given on beginners section of their youtube channel.

So far, it's amazing. I now have no problems with body movements while sitting and my concentration has improved... lots, and this from a fews days of practicing, without a teacher. The, um, "mind-movement"? that was the precursor to the body movements is simply not arising as it did before.

I have some thoughts why this method has seemingly, so far, been so successful for me, but I think I'll leave that for a proper post in a couple of weeks once things shake out and I've seen that the effects last.

Either way, it's fun stuff, I'm really curious what effect it would have on the OP's friend.

Metta,
Simon


I'll just add a note that I've been continuing faster EFT practice, I still haven't had any body movements while sitting (or at all) after starting EFT practice, and the concentration benefits are great due for me.

Have a good evening,
Simon

RE: Friend suffering kundalini syndrome - requesting help
Answer
9/11/12 9:16 PM as a reply to Gone, Gone..
John B.:
Habitual emotional and thought patterns have corresponding muscular contraction that creates blockages. These things are psycho-somatic and build up over a lifetime of stress. The body is the unconscious mind. During a spiritual opening these blocks need to be unclenched. This can happen through awareness, looking into area of pain. But often these areas or movements are still unconscious. The mind cannot penetrate. That's when a physical practice can open them up. When it does, the habitual patterns of behavior open up too and release can be found.


Excellent!