Dark Night? Isolated and scared through fear, dissolution, and grief.

Andrea H, modified 26 Days ago at 3/24/25 9:50 AM
Created 26 Days ago at 3/24/25 9:50 AM

Dark Night? Isolated and scared through fear, dissolution, and grief.

Posts: 2 Join Date: 3/24/25 Recent Posts
Becoming lost in dissolution and fear.  I don’t have a teacher.  I have taught myself how to meditate originally through the doors of recovery.  I finished a teacher training program that was a few years long and develop insight and mindfulness practices.  I was surprised and kind of disappointed that I knew nothing of the stages of insight through the teachings that were provided to me.  They were trying to keep this program on a secular basis.  My practice has progressed I believe to the dark night.  I have passed a period of A&P where I had several months of enormous amounts of energy passing through my system and other phenomena, sometimes easily and sometime very intensely where I had to learn how to move the energy from my crown to my belly.  I believe I have hit that stages of dissolution where my body dissolves and see the knowledge that this body is just isolated spontaneous sensations. I have seen fragmented parts of my nature and was amazed for lack of a better term.  This happed two nights in a row.  Last night I got into a deep meditation darkness and space bits and pieces of the previous night but just echoes of the previous night’s experience.  I haven’t developed enough mindfulness to explain more than that.  I am now experiencing enormous amounts of fear and sadness.  Last night after my practice I was having dream after dream about dissolving and dying, or people chasing me and dying, or people dying around me.  I would wake up in a panic with my heart racing and would repeat mantras to fall back to sleep.  This morning, I am feeling a lot of grief, and I am scared to keep going without a teacher. I understand this is part of the process. I guess my fear is that I will be somehow stuck inside myself if that makes sense. Or that my internal experience will cease to exist, and I am lost to those around me. I am just filled with so much sadness and fear that its hard to focus on work. I am 70 miles outside Chicagoland area but have no teacher that I am aware of nearby.  I read this is part of the process and logically can process that and really, I feel this emotionally as well, but I am scared to continue alone.  Any help to get through this would be greatly appreciated.
​​​​​​​Drea
thumbnail
Bahiya Baby, modified 25 Days ago at 3/24/25 11:51 PM
Created 26 Days ago at 3/24/25 6:33 PM

RE: Dark Night? Isolated and scared through fear, dissolution, and grief.

Posts: 1173 Join Date: 5/26/23 Recent Posts
I was surprised and kind of disappointed that I knew nothing of the stages of insight through the teachings that were provided to me.

Wisdom can not be bought or sold or commodified... unfortunately... and those who sell/commodify it tend not to have the best grasp on it. Trust me I've participated in all kinds of workshops and teacher trainings, they're rarely even scratching the surface and there is something kinda shitty about that. It feels a bit like a betrayal but anyway...

Hey Andrea, 

Please know you're welcome here to share your practice and what you're going through is normal and familiar to many of us. 

You're obviously a talented practitioner if you can get yourself into this kind of trouble.

The trick with the dark night is to relax, accept and include more of it. It's not high powered and high level like the a&p just allow yourself to be mindful of the pain and the space around it, of your body and the room around it. This helps integrate what needs to be integrated. Attention will often feel more diluted, dissolved, this is ok. This is ok. 

If you want to get off the ride, stop meditating. You've probably got the skills to keep going just let it be more subtle and more open, there's a lot of very beautiful stuff ahead of you. 

Best wishes,
​​​​​​​Bb


 
Robert L, modified 25 Days ago at 3/25/25 8:33 AM
Created 25 Days ago at 3/25/25 8:33 AM

RE: Dark Night? Isolated and scared through fear, dissolution, and grief.

Posts: 126 Join Date: 2/10/19 Recent Posts
Hi Andrea, I'm originally from Chicago area as well. Welcome. My advice is to remember the fear can't hurt you. Allow the fear and the sadness the space to do their thing. Do not try to suppress them or avoid them. They are there for a reason, and it isn't necessary to try to figure out why. When the feeling of fear arises, do not add anything to it. If a thought arises about the fear, allow it to arise, and then let it go away. Give the fear space to be, just passively observe it and allow it to do what it's going to do. Sadness, same thing. Any emotion, thought, etc., allow it to arise and pass away on its own. This is a practice you can do on or off the cushion. I wish you luck finding a teacher.
brian patrick, modified 25 Days ago at 3/25/25 9:02 AM
Created 25 Days ago at 3/25/25 9:02 AM

RE: Dark Night? Isolated and scared through fear, dissolution, and grief.

Posts: 87 Join Date: 10/31/23 Recent Posts
Robert L.
Hi Andrea, I'm originally from Chicago area as well. Welcome. My advice is to remember the fear can't hurt you. Allow the fear and the sadness the space to do their thing. Do not try to suppress them or avoid them. They are there for a reason, and it isn't necessary to try to figure out why. When the feeling of fear arises, do not add anything to it. If a thought arises about the fear, allow it to arise, and then let it go away. Give the fear space to be, just passively observe it and allow it to do what it's going to do. Sadness, same thing. Any emotion, thought, etc., allow it to arise and pass away on its own. This is a practice you can do on or off the cushion. I wish you luck finding a teacher.

Can't second this enough. It's terrible to feel that kind of fear, but it really can't hurt you no matter what your body and heart rate tell you. Let it come and stand in it like a water fall, without adding anything to it. Just be there, feeling it and allowing it. If it gets to be too overwhelming, back off for a bit and do something you enjoy, something that usually soothes you. And don't beat yourself up about avoidance or whatever. When you do this it gets easier and easier, and one day you'll find that things that used to seem like they triggered it will no longer do so. When you notice this "less-reactivity" you'll usually get a little bump that will help you continue, and as these kinds of insights become clearer they will get more and more subtle. I used to visualize this as riding on a water wheel. You find yourself going up towards the sun, warming and feeling good, and then you find yourself going back down the other side until you face plant into the icy water again, and drug along the bottom of the river, only to come back out again. 
thumbnail
pixelcloud *, modified 25 Days ago at 3/25/25 9:15 AM
Created 25 Days ago at 3/25/25 9:12 AM

RE: Dark Night? Isolated and scared through fear, dissolution, and grief.

Posts: 103 Join Date: 10/25/24 Recent Posts
Hey Andrea, 

great advice above, I'm just gonna add a specific exercise from MCTB2 you can try in your practice, as it is specifically recommended to be tried during the dark night stages. Emphasis is on try. When in doubt, come back to the advice above. 






"My favorite exercise for examining dukkha is to sit quietly in a quiet place with eyes closed and examine the physical sensations that make up any sort of desire, be it desire to get something (attraction), get away from something (aversion), or just check out or go to sleep (ignorance). At a rate of one to ten times per second, try to experience exactly how you know that you wish to do something other than simply face your current experience as it is. Moment to moment, try to discern every little uncomfortable shift, urge, impulse, and tension that prods your mind into fantasizing about the past or future or stopping the meditation entirely.

For that meditation period, they become my prey and nourishment, opportunities to understand something extraordinary about reality, and so I do my very best to let none of them arise and pass without clearly perceiving and acknowledging the basic sense of dissatisfaction in relation to them. So, for that period try to: 

• turn on sensations of the desire to get results
 
• turn on the pain and unsettling sensations that make the mind shrink, reject, or contract

• turn on the boredom that is usually aversion to suffering in disguise

• turn on the sensations of restlessness that try to get you to stop meditating and do something, anything, else

​​​​​​​• turn on anything with fear or judgment 

• turn on any sensation that smacks of grandiosity or self-loathing

• turn on the things that typically derail meditation and make them into meditation objects

• turn on the sensations related to thinking about your meditation, which is generally aversion or attraction disguised by intellectual analysis. While there is value in meta-cognitive awareness, there is also great value in investigating the sensations that make up meta-cognitive awareness.

A half-hour to an hour of this sort of consistent investigation of dissatisfactoriness is also quite a workout, particularly as we spend most of our lives doing anything but looking at these sensations to gain insight from them. However, I have found that this kind of investigation pays off in ways I could never have imagined. Later, I will explain a stage called “the Knowledges of Suffering”, aka “the Dark Night”. If you find yourself having trouble with that phase of practice, come back here and try this exercise, as it can turn the tables on something that otherwise might turn the tables on you.

Exploring dissatisfactoriness may not sound as concrete as the first characteristic of momentariness or impermanence, but I assure you, it is. Even the most pleasant sensations have a tinge of misery to them, not only because they end, but also due to the strange way we hold our minds to create a sense of a stable self in a changing world, so look for it at the level of bare experience. Physical pain is a gold mine for this. I am absolutely not advocating cultivating or inducing pain, as there is already enough there. Just knowing in each instant how you know that pain is dissatisfactory and miserable can be profound practice. Don’t settle for just the knee jerk reaction, “of course pain is miserable!” Know exactly how you know this to be true in each moment, and don’t get lost in stories or interpretations about it. This is bare reality we’re talking about. Just be with it, engage with it, and know it at a very simple and straightforward sensate level."
Andrea H, modified 24 Days ago at 3/26/25 11:06 AM
Created 24 Days ago at 3/26/25 11:06 AM

RE: Dark Night? Isolated and scared through fear, dissolution, and grief.

Posts: 2 Join Date: 3/24/25 Recent Posts
Thank you everyone for your kindness.  I didn’t realize by panicking and I should have that I was “running” from fear, aversion. It made perfect sense when I read that.  All of your words encouraged me to keep going and just let whatever happens happen. Lean in and let it hit me.  I forget to trust the process.  I am grateful for this space, the knowledge and kindness of everyone.  I have gone back to practice again a couple times nothing more than an hour a half.  The first sit I was following and opening to the grief which lead me back to my previous state, somewhere deep in myself with not much happening.  Probably because I could still feel my mind have a slight “grip” from fear.  I just kept trying to relax and open and do as you suggested.  Last night was more of the same so Ill keep going.
I did feel betrayed by the company that I was certified through. I know I am a different person than I was when I began my journey four years ago on the heels on a life collapse/identity collapse.  I know my mind is different from all my experiences and practice.  I’m choosing to be brave and trust in your collective wisdom.  I am guessing each of these cycles may require deeper letting go the sharper your mind gets  If I am trying to share this gift of meditation I think I should have know to tell people the many things you can experience.  They may not want total transformation and loss of self.  I don’t have any desire to teach now.  I feel that all that I experienced where I didn’t know what was happening to me is here on this website.  I would have liked to know a little of what to expect with my mind and body so I wouldn’t have been so blindsided.  Thank you for your kindness.
Eudoxos , modified 18 Days ago at 4/1/25 4:25 AM
Created 18 Days ago at 4/1/25 4:25 AM

RE: Dark Night? Isolated and scared through fear, dissolution, and grief.

Posts: 155 Join Date: 4/6/14 Recent Posts
If you have a chance, find a retreat where you will get some guidance. The advantage is you are less limited geographically (okay to travel a few hours for a 2-week retreat). Sustained practice 8+ hours a day can give the mind a lot of clarity, and with some skillful support, it will make much more sense. You will also have much more confidence in navigating stuff.

Since you mention dissolution: (self-)doubt and feelings of betrayal are rather typical. See them just as phenomena which come and go. You can draw conclusions about your teacher training later emoticon As Bahiya Baby said, your system seems to be talented for this kind of practices; any progress you make here will be for great support of yourself (and perhaps others) in the future.

Don't hesitate to post again. Sangha is one of the important refuges.

Best of luck to you.

Breadcrumb