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Post-1st Path Vipassana Pure Land Jhana

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Hello,

I was just reading through Daniels new mind charts, and noticed that he did not include the pure land jhanas as part of the insight vipassana cycle. I thought it might be of interest to note that I have been able to access 5 distinct pure land jhanas in such a soft vipassana context shortly after I landed 1st path and figured out how to incline towards the jhanas
(almost always soft, mindful versions as I don't really see strictly vip. or sam. in my practice, as I am working from mostly a Zen context of "nothing to do" i.e. affect-less practice)

I am now currently in fairly high(ish?) eq for what I believe to be 2nd path.

Has anyone else had this kind of experience? I know that on KFD Kenneth says that getting to the pure land is a sign of 3rd Path. Based on my experience I think this might be incorrect because I have had them for months now and am not anywhere near 3rd path based on either fetter or MCTB models. (In the 10 bull models I would say I am getting closer to "seizing the bull" for good)

Just something I thought I would share...

RE: Post-1st Path Vipassana Pure Land Jhana
Answer
9/19/12 9:12 AM as a reply to Sleeping Buddha Syndrome.
Also, for those who may or may not care such cycling up into the pure lands usually occurs in some sort of AP/Undertones of Desire for Deliverance fractal sense.

RE: Post-1st Path Vipassana Pure Land Jhana
Answer
9/19/12 9:17 AM as a reply to Sleeping Buddha Syndrome.
I was able to access the PL jhanas shortly before 3rd path and I know of others on KFD that have access to them while working towards 3rd, but I think it is pretty rare after 1st. Can you describe the phenomenon you experience. In my experience, there has never been a soft version of the PL jhanas. They are intensely pleasurable when they show up, especially PL1. Not sure what a "soft" version would look like.

RE: Post-1st Path Vipassana Pure Land Jhana
Answer
9/19/12 9:54 AM as a reply to Russell ..
Russell .:
I was able to access the PL jhanas shortly before 3rd path and I know of others on KFD that have access to them while working towards 3rd, but I think it is pretty rare after 1st. Can you describe the phenomenon you experience. In my experience, there has never been a soft version of the PL jhanas. They are intensely pleasurable when they show up, especially PL1. Not sure what a "soft" version would look like.


Well, to start I don't really get much in the way of feeling tone from any of the jhanas recently, I don't know if this has to do with the "how can I be happy in this moment" type of practice I am doing which has led me to become a bit more flat or just some other quirk in my practice. It could just be that I don't really make the intent to access hard samatha states so I don't have a point of comparison.

Basically the way I delineate the jhanas if I am looking for them is firstly by their primary factors (applied, sustained concentration, bliss, happiness, eq, space, cons, nothingness, npnynp, etc.), although there are other ways as well (where is my attention focused? how are the eyes focused? etc) Now, I may not be blown away by these factors but they are present enough for me to recognize them on some sort of level, usually more subtle and faint the higher up I go. In the context of the Pure Land, I first recognize them as states above NPNYNP, and they are further delineated by where my attention is focused, what my eyes do, and some incredibly subtle shifts in feeling tone (For example, Pure Land #3 to me has the feel of one of those buddha statues where my mouth seems to naturally shift into a half-smile and my eyes are locked into my third eye, very solid and pleasant feeling).

In terms of the cycling and vipassana qualities. I am not in a solid or hard jhanic state. Often I will move through each jhana, investigating each one with mindfulness and then get some sort of subtle fruition, whereby I move to the next one by shifting my focus, attention, etc to the correct placement for that jhana. In all cases I can take a break, kind of just forget about what I am doing, walk around, do chores etc, but if I stop and notice I can pick out which one I am in based on characteristics. In other words, I cycle through them whether I am descriminating the jhanas apart or just being normal and not "left-braining" my practice.

RE: Post-1st Path Vipassana Pure Land Jhana
Answer
9/19/12 2:15 PM as a reply to Sleeping Buddha Syndrome.
The other thing I might add that just struck me while sitting in my chair is that all jhanas I have experienced up to this point seem to, in the fractal sense, be based out of the first jhana. In other words, I have experienced qualities of all the jhanas up to the Pure Lands but not in their "pure" sense.

Its almost as if I had a computer named first jhana with its processer being applied and sustained thought and I was running a piece of software called the jhanas 1-13.

RE: Post-1st Path Vipassana Pure Land Jhana
Answer
9/19/12 3:03 PM as a reply to Sleeping Buddha Syndrome.
A D R:
The other thing I might add that just struck me while sitting in my chair is that all jhanas I have experienced up to this point seem to, in the fractal sense, be based out of the first jhana. In other words, I have experienced qualities of all the jhanas up to the Pure Lands but not in their "pure" sense.

Its almost as if I had a computer named first jhana with its processer being applied and sustained thought and I was running a piece of software called the jhanas 1-13.


I got access to them mid/late MCTB 2nd path. I think they can be scripted/fabricated/fashioned by a malleable, pliant mind that has awareness and manipulative ability of the subtler aspects of experience such as vibratory phenomena on a minute scale. Once one gets late MCTB 2nd to 3rd path, they become more natural will of mind stuff and show up easily while doing the Witness and jhana practice explained here, at least they did for me. If one masters early on the territory before the cessation of the senses (called fruition here), then that pliant and malleable mind can do quite a lot of things that may not register with someone else's paradigm of what can be done at whatever stage. Can you follow these videos, ADR? If you do the witness practice linked above and don't naturally cycle up into that territory of 'pre-fruition' absorptions without any manipulating going on, then we may be able to define the difference of access between 'paths' as talked of here.

No need to manipulate (via the witness practice linked above) VS a need to manipulate and direct the mind to fashion (thus script/fabricate)*

* though one is still fabricating when not manipulating in my opinion, it is done in a non-manipulative way shedding light on the current brain's naturally clear access to certain territories. If your jhanic arc only gets to a certain jhana and cycles back down, then we can say you haven't got that natural access yet or as you put it 'their pure sense'.

RE: Post-1st Path Vipassana Pure Land Jhana
Answer
9/19/12 3:54 PM as a reply to Nikolai ..
Nikolai .:
A D R:
The other thing I might add that just struck me while sitting in my chair is that all jhanas I have experienced up to this point seem to, in the fractal sense, be based out of the first jhana. In other words, I have experienced qualities of all the jhanas up to the Pure Lands but not in their "pure" sense.

Its almost as if I had a computer named first jhana with its processer being applied and sustained thought and I was running a piece of software called the jhanas 1-13.


I got access to them mid/late MCTB 2nd path. I think they can be scripted/fabricated/fashioned by a malleable, pliant mind that has awareness and manipulative ability of the subtler aspects of experience such as vibratory phenomena on a minute scale. Once one gets late MCTB 2nd to 3rd path, they become more natural will of mind stuff and show up easily while doing the Witness and jhana practice explained here, at least they did for me. If one masters early on the territory before the cessation of the senses (called fruition here), then that pliant and malleable mind can do quite a lot of things that may not register with someone else's paradigm of what can be done at whatever stage. Can you follow these videos, ADR? If you do the witness practice linked above and don't naturally cycle up into that territory of 'pre-fruition' absorptions without any manipulating going on, then we may be able to define the difference of access between 'paths' as talked of here.

No need to manipulate (via the witness practice linked above) VS a need to manipulate and direct the mind to fashion (thus script/fabricate)*

* though one is still fabricating when not manipulating in my opinion, it is done in a non-manipulative way shedding light on the current brain's naturally clear access to certain territories. If your jhanic arc only gets to a certain jhana and cycles back down, then we can say you haven't got that natural access yet or as you put it 'their pure sense'.


Thanks for the thoughts Nikolai.

So basically I think I can identify with the whole witness thing. I have seen the looping back type phenomena (think I noticed it somewhere directly pre-1st path, with more clarity afterwards). Early on in my practice I did deliberate noting that involved what you might call manipulating if I am understanding you correctly. I abandoned this practice somewhere around half way through 1st path after some not so pleasant experiences with taking noting to the extreme edge of insanity.

As far as this witness is concerned with Jhana 1-13. I did in fact follow along with your videos a month or two ago and found that my mind very naturally moved through the stages. The first few times this happened I got excited, thinking I was going to get some type of N.S. fruition, but I noticed that every time the mind just naturally came down as you said (the first time this happened I got my mind so wired that I stayed up all night waiting for "the big one" haha, bad hangover the next day).
More recently this up and down cycling happens but I don't really pay attention to it as much as my interest in it wanes. Otherwise, the main "new thing" I am noticing right now is that I am coming to the edge of what I call a "pure" 2nd Jhana (with mindfulness of course) with no first jhana underwriting (i.e. full absorption with no applied or sustained thought), but it has yet to pull me in.

I am very dedicated to the idea that I will only do what I want to do. If I notice some type of emotion manifesting in response to some kind of action, I won't proceed with said action, usually. It is a radical commitment and is only feasible since I have very supportive parents who put me up with no work/chore expectations since I bombed out of a monastery. But I am commimted to it 100%. What I am seeing is this whole thing seems to be collapsing down towards some kind of fruition where I expect some aspect of the doer/"manipulator" will be illuminated. I don't know what this style of practice is called (AF, heading towards 2nd path, "seizing the bull") but it seems different than what most people are doing around here as I am not just content with noting negative emotions. Really I just sit around and don't do anything.

RE: Post-1st Path Vipassana Pure Land Jhana
Answer
9/19/12 4:21 PM as a reply to Sleeping Buddha Syndrome.
Come to think of it, though, I may have access to the higher jhanas. I will kick back in the recliner and "ride the waves" with no thoughts and no effort, so this must mean I can access them.

There are so many types and qualities of jhana it all kind of gets confusing in the wash.. emoticon

RE: Post-1st Path Vipassana Pure Land Jhana
Answer
9/19/12 4:52 PM as a reply to Sleeping Buddha Syndrome.
A D R:
Come to think of it, though, I may have access to the higher jhanas. I will kick back in the recliner and "ride the waves" with no thoughts and no effort, so this must mean I can access them.

There are so many types and qualities of jhana it all kind of gets confusing in the wash.. emoticon


Since no-one truly knows how others experience the concept of 'jhana', the question is, what use do they have? Are they simply fuel for more 'me-ness', craving and attachment? Or are they tools for the dismantling of such 'me-ness', craving and attachment? Or for some other reason? You have some sort of access to some pleasant mental fabrications which you can do many things with. End all mental stress? Powers? Or just simply sit there and enjoy the access? If all mental fabrications are seen as impermanent, and not of self, and thus dukkha, what does this mean for the practice of accessing such experiences? What can be learned from them? What is the ultimate objective if there is one?

RE: Post-1st Path Vipassana Pure Land Jhana
Answer
9/19/12 4:54 PM as a reply to Sleeping Buddha Syndrome.
OK. Just did a sit to clear things up.

Started in what you call the Witness. This is what I have been in in the past when I went all the way through the Jhanas and back. So, I went through first, second showed up, then third kicked in with a jolt (kind of like a transmission that is out of whack). At this point my mind started to wander, but I went on up into the formless realms (this is what I was talking about with the 1st Jhana underwriting). It was kind of like without my even noticing all of a sudden there were two simultaneous perceptual modes running at once. At some point I started feeling aversion to the process and quit the Witness back into what I have been walking around in most of the day - what you might call ordinary mind.

RE: Post-1st Path Vipassana Pure Land Jhana
Answer
9/19/12 5:00 PM as a reply to Nikolai ..
Yeah I think the main point for me, and my main object, is happiness. So this all I care about really, haha. With that kind of perspective I am probably wasting my time on here typing and getting all caught up into this dialog. emoticon

RE: Post-1st Path Vipassana Pure Land Jhana
Answer
9/19/12 5:10 PM as a reply to Sleeping Buddha Syndrome.
A D R:
OK. Just did a sit to clear things up.

Started in what you call the Witness. This is what I have been in in the past when I went all the way through the Jhanas and back. So, I went through first, second showed up, then third kicked in with a jolt (kind of like a transmission that is out of whack). At this point my mind started to wander, but I went on up into the formless realms (this is what I was talking about with the 1st Jhana underwriting). It was kind of like without my even noticing all of a sudden there were two simultaneous perceptual modes running at once. At some point I started feeling aversion to the process and quit the Witness back into what I have been walking around in most of the day - what you might call ordinary mind.


As is the case here at the DhO, it is easier to accept someone's claim to this and that if it is backed up with phenomenological descriptions where other yogis can see similarities or differences in experiences. Saying I went up to the 2nd and then 3rd or simply 'formless' realms holds no weight here if lacking such descriptions. You could be scripting or simply seeking attention to 'claims' for all we know. It happens, and I've done it too in the past.

Perhaps it will be a good excuse and trigger to not just 'do nothing', but explore such fabrications of mind and see their make up and limits if you attempt to describe them in phenomenological detail for others to see what you truly are talking about. Such explorations can lead to deep understanding of dependent origination and resultant 'happiness' which trumps all other types of 'happinesses'. So such a line of inquiry and continued interaction in this thread would be in line with your objective.

What does each supposed 'jhana' entail? In your own words if possible. And also if so inclined, what is stressful about each jhana all the way to the very top? Answer that and you might see a way to discover the 'happiness' mentioned above.

Nick

RE: Post-1st Path Vipassana Pure Land Jhana
Answer
9/19/12 5:18 PM as a reply to Nikolai ..
Nikolai .:


As is the case here at the DhO, it is easier to accept someone's claim to this and that if it is backed up with phenomenological descriptions where other yogis can see similarities or differences in experiences. Saying I went up to the 2nd and then 3rd or simply 'formless' realms holds no weight here. If lacking such descriptions. You could be scripting for all we know. It happens, and I've done it too in the past.

Perhaps it will be a good excuse and trigger to not just do nothing, but explore such fabrications of mind and see their make up and limits if you attempt to describe them in phenomenological detail for others to see what you truly are talking about. Such explorations can lead to deep understanding of dependent origination and a 'happiness' which trumps all other types of 'happinesses' so would be in line with your objective.

What does each supposed 'jhana' entail? In your own words if possible. And also if so inclined, what is stressful about each jhana all the way to the very top? Answer that and you might see a way to discover the 'happiness' mentioned above.

Nick


Hmm.. thats a tough one. Honestly I don't know what Jhanas I have access to or what quality they have from any objective point of view. I very well could be scripting.

I say I went into the formless realms, but I very much still experienced form, so from that point of view the claim is bogus. Pure Land Jhana is the same thing. It would probably be better phenomenological description to say I experienced a "shell" of such attainments. The same might be true to a lesser extent of the 2nd-4th Jhana range. It seems that these things open up over time (slowly ripen) rather than just dropping out of the sky from day one. Its fun to watch them grow.

RE: Post-1st Path Vipassana Pure Land Jhana
Answer
9/19/12 5:34 PM as a reply to Sleeping Buddha Syndrome.
A D R:


Hmm.. thats a tough one. Honestly I don't know what Jhanas I have access to or what quality they have from any objective point of view. I very well could be scripting.

I say I went into the formless realms, but I very much still experienced form, so from that point of view the claim is bogus. Pure Land Jhana is the same thing. It would probably be better phenomenological description to say I experienced a "shell" of such attainments. The same might be true to a lesser extent of the 2nd-4th Jhana range. It seems that these things open up over time (slowly ripen) rather than just dropping out of the sky from day one. Its fun to watch them grow.


Well then, depending on the version of 'happiness' you adhere to and wish to experience, there is lots of homework still to do. Explore and experiment with that access regardless of judgement of it (a mental overlay perhaps conditioning the very experience of them). Play around with how far fabricating at will can go. Also if you really want to experience a happiness that trumps all happinesses, investigate why and how fabrications of mind (i.e. jhana/nana/mind states of whatever emotion/mood) come to be and how their cessation comes about.

RE: Post-1st Path Vipassana Pure Land Jhana
Answer
9/19/12 5:45 PM as a reply to Nikolai ..
I guess I really started this thread because I thought I might have discovered something new and "special." My motivations were thus not stellar.

In terms of the do-nothing mentality I have, it seems that I have adopted this view as a survival mechanism to all the mental head trips I have been going through. I am a extreme perfectionist and very self-critical, also very self-absorbed and greedy. I have no life outside of my practice. Few friends, no ambitions, no goals, no job, don't interact with my family much. Its a very sad and frustrating situation at times. I want to help people, but feel that everytime I want to help someone, it just meets dead airspace.

Somehow the thought that I and everyone around me is f-cked and there's nothing I can do about is comforting. That's what I have been doing lately with my practice, because everytime I care, I get stressed out and anxious. So I don't note, I don't witness (now that I tried to do it today I remember that I dropped it because it is something to do and I got caught up in perfecting it), I just do nothing. Its liberating for me.

RE: Post-1st Path Vipassana Pure Land Jhana
Answer
9/19/12 5:59 PM as a reply to Sleeping Buddha Syndrome.
A D R:
I guess I really started this thread because I thought I might have discovered something new and "special." My motivations were thus not stellar.


Which generally gets a light shone on here at the DhO. it's a good feedback mechanism. Without phenomenological descriptions it's all hearsay and most of the time it's identity building, which is against the grain of what most here at the DhO are working at.

In terms of the do-nothing mentality I have, it seems that I have adopted this view as a survival mechanism to all the mental head trips I have been going through. I am a extreme perfectionist and very self-critical, also very self-absorbed and greedy. I have no life outside of my practice. No friends, no ambitions, no goals, no job, don't interact with my family much. Its a very sad and frustrating situation at times. I want to help people, but feel that everytime I want to help someone, it just meets dead airspace.


And an identity around such defintions? Perhaps you can use that tendency to perfectionism by focusing on perfecting the fabrication of jhana as far as fabrications can go. If you have the conditions in life for such a practice, I'd not waste a single second more. Those fabrications of 'sadness', feeling the need to be 'perfect' in something, 'self-absorption', all the mental head trips, stress, anxiety, feeling 'comfort' in a perceived (fabricated) situation, etc. are fabrications of mind. At the moment they seem to arise automatically due to causes and conditioning factors. They need triggers. But what if you trained the mind to set up those triggers for fabrications that were more conducive for the direction you wish to go (happiness). By training the mind to deepen such mastery of the jhanas, you train the mind at the saem time in the mastery of fabrication. And when there is mastery, there is no lost in the triggers of daily life, as there is understanding of how fabrications come to be, and how they cease. So all the mentioned fabrications that aren't so conducive for the happiness you may seek will not be 'beyond your control'. As one understands how they cease, and thus they cease and a re replaced with fabrications more sutiable and condcive to eventually drop all fabricating tendencies. And then, you will indeed be in an ideal position to truly help others.




Somehow the thought that I and everyone around me is f-cked and there's nothing I can do about is comforting. That's what I have been doing lately with my practice, because everytime I care, I get stressed out and anxious. So I don't note, I don't witness (now that I tried to do it today I remember that I dropped it because it is something to do and I got caught up in perfecting it), I just do nothing. Its liberating for me.


Do you believe all your thoughts? Have you ever questioned the validity of all thoughts/views/beliefs/locked in thought loops? Cos they might be conditioning how the field of experience is experienced, whether pleasant, unpleasant or neutral. But a mind subject to such conditioned experienced is subject to such conditioned experience. Push and pull. Not so satisfactory. Use whatever you have access to to lay the groundwork for mastery of such lack of push and pull.

That is what I'd do anyway.

Or could do nothing. Whatever leads to the happiness you seek. If it ultimately doesn't though, you have the option there to master the mind, rather than let it sit there to be subject to conditions i.e not noting, no witness, etc.

RE: Post-1st Path Vipassana Pure Land Jhana
Answer
9/19/12 6:17 PM as a reply to Nikolai ..
Nikolai .:


And an identity around such defintions? Perhaps you can use that tendency to perfectionism by focusing on perfecting the fabrication of jhana as far as fabrications can go. If you have the conditions in life for such a practice, I'd not waste a single second more.



Doing nothing = Practicing Jhana. Thanks for your help. TTYL

RE: Post-1st Path Vipassana Pure Land Jhana
Answer
9/19/12 6:27 PM as a reply to Sleeping Buddha Syndrome.
A D R:
Nikolai .:


And an identity around such defintions? Perhaps you can use that tendency to perfectionism by focusing on perfecting the fabrication of jhana as far as fabrications can go. If you have the conditions in life for such a practice, I'd not waste a single second more.



Doing nothing = Practicing Jhana. Thanks for your help. TTYL



No probs. Having approaches and objectives explained from differing viewpoints is a good way to keep the mind fresh, curious and thus avoids stagnation of discernment and opens up experience to possible future revelations.

You get what you optimize for.


Exploring Fabrication: Thanissaro Bihikkhu Dhamma talk:

"The Venerable Ananda talks about using craving and conceit on the path. It has to be a skillful craving and it has to be a skillful conceit. But these process which eventually we are going to have to let go of, we first have to learn how to handle skillfully. The Buddha talks about papanca where you think of yourself as an object. And ultimately you do have to let it go but there are some uses for papanca on the path like a sense of samvega.

You think about all the suffering you’ve had in past and all the suffering you’re going to have in the future. It’s a really good motivator. This is how we learn about things. This is how we gain insight into things, is by working and playing with them, by manipulating them. Manipulating is not all bad. If we didn't manipulate these things, we wouldn’t learn anything about them.
How do you think scientists learn anything about anything at all? They play. They fool around. They poke this and they change that and they set fire to this, explode that. So you can learn exactly what’s a cause and what’s an effect and how are they connected.

And we are exploring here too. Always trying to take this attitude of exploration. Use your powers of observation. Use your ingenuity to figure out how things work both in the body and the mind and see how far this process of fabrication can take you. You are not really going to let go of fabrications until you’ve pushed them as far as they can take you. That is what the last tetrad is all about. You begin to realize that the raw material from which you’ve been building these things has its limitations. It can provide only a certain amount of ease but because it’s inconstant that ease is going to wobble. And an ease that wobbles is not necessarily a very comfortable place to be.

Think of a chair with uneven legs, you’re sitting in the chair. You can’t really relax into the chair because the chair might tip over. You've got to stay tense at least a little to maintain your balance. That is the way it is with all the ease and pleasure that comes with anything fabricated. It requires a certain amount of tension to keep your balance.

There will come the point where you ask yourself is it worth. As long as the path hasn’t been fully developed, yes it is worth it. But as these factors get more and more developed you begin to realize this is as far as fabrication can take you. And you begin to lose your taste. You’re feeding on these fabrications, that is where dispassion comes in. You lose your passion for fabricating and because you lose that passion, the process of fabrication begins to fall apart because after all it did depend on factors coming out of the mind, the mind’s hunger for these things, its thirst for these things.

When it’s no longer hungry or thirsty, it just stops. And when it stops, everything else stops. That is where you let go of everything, even the path, even the discernment that got you there. This is how we understand fabrication. This is what insight is all about. Not just watching things arising and passing away but realizing the extent to which the mind causes them to arise and to pass away.

You've got to dig down into this deep level. That is why we work with the breath because the breath goes really deep into your awareness both of the body and of the mind. When you are close to the breath you are close to the sources of fabrication that is where you can see how these things come about. As you manipulate them you get a sense of their range. How far they can go and how far they can’t go.

This is why all of the great meditators of the past where not people who just got really tired of things and got really world weary and just stopped with a sense of depression. That is not how enlightenment is found or awakening is found. They really actively pursue it. How far can you go. What can you do to bring about true happiness. They used their ingenuity, they used the powers of observation. They actively explored. That is what brought them to the edge of fabrication and how they got beyond.

So try and approach the meditation as a process of exploration. You are exploring this process of fabrication in body and in mind. And the breath is a good place to start. A good foundation for your experiments.

Remember the Buddha’s basic approach throughout is practice. I’m doing this and I’m getting these results. Are they good enough? Well, no. What could I do that’s better? And then he tried something new using his powers of observation and ingenuity. And setting really high standards for himself. Really high standards for the type of happiness that would leave him satisfied. Because only when you aim high that you can actually hit high. You never hit any higher than you aim." Thanissaro Bikkhu

Freedom From Buddha Nature By Thanissaro Bhikkhu

"The determination to train for peace helps maintain your sense of direction in this process, for it reminds you that the only true happiness is peace of mind, and that you want to look for ever-increasing levels of peace as they become possible through the practice. This determination emulates the trait that the Buddha said was essential to his Awakening: the unwillingness to rest content with lesser levels of stillness when higher levels could be attained. In this way, the stages of concentration, instead of becoming obstacles or dangers on the path, serve as stepping-stones to greater sensitivity and, through that sensitivity, to the ultimate peace where all passion, aversion, and delusion grow still.

This peace thus grows from the simple choice to keep looking at the mind's fabrications as processes, as actions and results. But to fully achieve this peace, your discernment has to be directed not only at the mind's fabrication of the objects of its awareness, but also at its fabrications about itself and about the path it's creating. Your sense of who you are is a fabrication, regardless of whether you see the mind as separate or interconnected, finite or infinite, good or bad. The path is also a fabrication: very subtle and sometimes seemingly effortless, but fabricated nonetheless. If these layers of inner fabrication aren't seen for what they are — if you regard them as innate or inevitable — they can't be deconstructed, and full Awakening can't occur." Thanissaro Bhikkhu