Adventures in Deconstruction: A Practice Thread - Discussion
As usual, I refuse to just call this a practice thread and be done with it.
So, a shift in perceptual baseline last night has prompted me to start another practice thread and try to document whatever the hell seems to be going on nowadays. There was a massive shift in baseline around two months ago, roughly, which left no sense of location, affective emotions or self-referential thought in its wake. Since then however, and also in the month or so preceding that shift, there have been at least another three significant and noticeable perceptual shifts which have caused my entire experience to become more 'fused'; phenomenologically, the way the visual field was divided into a centralized area of focus and peripheral vision has dissolved and become effortlessly panoramic; sounds are just sounds, it's like they hear themselves and there's no distinction experientially between hearing what what's heard, and this is also the case for the other sense doors a'la Bahiya Sutta.
My everyday practice in recent months has moved more and more towards a Tibetan/Bön and Mahamudra-based approach, still basically freestyle non-dual concentration sort of stuff but with much more emphasis on emptiness and impermanence than before. My sits usually consist of 45 mins anapanasati but with attention to the bare sensations of the breath and seeing through the subtle fabrications still implying difference of any sort. "Subtle" seems to have become my word of the month, but it's the best way I can find to describe what's going on and to point out just how incredibly easy these little instances of clinging are to miss; accuracy in writing has also become much more important when trying to communicate now, much as I was a wordy bastard before it seems to have gotten even worse!
Anyway, to the practice...
Two sits today, both 45 mins in length but I worked with a Dzogchen technique called "Transforming the Five Skandhas Into the Five Tathagatha Buddhas", specifically the aggregate of form, in the first sit. It involves resting in the natural state (which I understand as being non-dual, non-conceptual awareness) and visualizing a white, egg-sized ball of brilliant white light, then recognizing the sphere and awareness as being inseperable, dependently arisen and luminous. After the shift last night, the ability to remain in that non-dual, non-conceptual awareness has become so natural as to be effortless, and so the only difficulty came when trying to visualize with any stability. I was able to call up a mental image but, and this is a pain in the arse to describe, it's not really an image as such, more like a stream of mental sensations that suggest something being "seen". It's weird to explain it but it seems more streamlined than just imagining something, more dynamic but functional nonetheless.
Tonight I sat open-eyed, which was a complete surprise to me 'cause it's not something I usually do and I have no idea why it happened. I just found myself sitting down, assuming an asana and then the sense of the body just vanished within a second or two of applying bare attentiveness; this is something new, I'd experienced this before but not as quickly and certainly not as thoroughly as it was tonight. It's difficult describe what practice actually consists of when doing anapanasati 'cause it's just a lot of recognition and letting go of subtle clinging to mental objects and processes. Not very exciting to read about, but I'll try to keep everything as phenomenological as possible.
I've been participating in various facebook groups connected to the direct-pointing folks from RT and LU which has been really cool, and a lot of fun. It's opened my eyes to how differently people convey their experience with this stuff and also how easy it is to muddy the water with words sometimes. I'm all about practice, techniques and available ways to 'wake up' but it's also become apparent how prevalent the whole "do nothing" approach is, particularly in those who's realizations have only occurred in the last year or so. It's not a big deal, but it reminds me of how we all must have reeked of enlightenment at one point, and how we still sometimes let one rip that tickles the nostrils of our fellow beings.
Real-life stuff continues to be testing as I go through a difficult split, sit on the verge of having my house repossessed, and have just been sacked from my job. I'm appealing that last part though so fingers remain crossed, but to anyone looking in from the outside, this current situation looks like a nightmare scenario....yet I'm quite calm and incredibly clear headed, it's not that it's not difficult sometimes, I'm not the Buddha or anything, but these practices and ongoing realizations have made everyday life more manageable in the most practical and sensible ways. I've also found someone who's presence in my life has led to all sorts of incredible things and who's involved in this adventure just as much as I am, something I never thought possible but that's led to a deeper understanding of how genuinely amazing it is to be alive right now.
I'll sign off with a thank you to the Buddha, the Dharma, and this wonderful virtual-sangha we've got here at the DhO.
Peace out.
So, a shift in perceptual baseline last night has prompted me to start another practice thread and try to document whatever the hell seems to be going on nowadays. There was a massive shift in baseline around two months ago, roughly, which left no sense of location, affective emotions or self-referential thought in its wake. Since then however, and also in the month or so preceding that shift, there have been at least another three significant and noticeable perceptual shifts which have caused my entire experience to become more 'fused'; phenomenologically, the way the visual field was divided into a centralized area of focus and peripheral vision has dissolved and become effortlessly panoramic; sounds are just sounds, it's like they hear themselves and there's no distinction experientially between hearing what what's heard, and this is also the case for the other sense doors a'la Bahiya Sutta.
My everyday practice in recent months has moved more and more towards a Tibetan/Bön and Mahamudra-based approach, still basically freestyle non-dual concentration sort of stuff but with much more emphasis on emptiness and impermanence than before. My sits usually consist of 45 mins anapanasati but with attention to the bare sensations of the breath and seeing through the subtle fabrications still implying difference of any sort. "Subtle" seems to have become my word of the month, but it's the best way I can find to describe what's going on and to point out just how incredibly easy these little instances of clinging are to miss; accuracy in writing has also become much more important when trying to communicate now, much as I was a wordy bastard before it seems to have gotten even worse!
Anyway, to the practice...
Two sits today, both 45 mins in length but I worked with a Dzogchen technique called "Transforming the Five Skandhas Into the Five Tathagatha Buddhas", specifically the aggregate of form, in the first sit. It involves resting in the natural state (which I understand as being non-dual, non-conceptual awareness) and visualizing a white, egg-sized ball of brilliant white light, then recognizing the sphere and awareness as being inseperable, dependently arisen and luminous. After the shift last night, the ability to remain in that non-dual, non-conceptual awareness has become so natural as to be effortless, and so the only difficulty came when trying to visualize with any stability. I was able to call up a mental image but, and this is a pain in the arse to describe, it's not really an image as such, more like a stream of mental sensations that suggest something being "seen". It's weird to explain it but it seems more streamlined than just imagining something, more dynamic but functional nonetheless.
Tonight I sat open-eyed, which was a complete surprise to me 'cause it's not something I usually do and I have no idea why it happened. I just found myself sitting down, assuming an asana and then the sense of the body just vanished within a second or two of applying bare attentiveness; this is something new, I'd experienced this before but not as quickly and certainly not as thoroughly as it was tonight. It's difficult describe what practice actually consists of when doing anapanasati 'cause it's just a lot of recognition and letting go of subtle clinging to mental objects and processes. Not very exciting to read about, but I'll try to keep everything as phenomenological as possible.
I've been participating in various facebook groups connected to the direct-pointing folks from RT and LU which has been really cool, and a lot of fun. It's opened my eyes to how differently people convey their experience with this stuff and also how easy it is to muddy the water with words sometimes. I'm all about practice, techniques and available ways to 'wake up' but it's also become apparent how prevalent the whole "do nothing" approach is, particularly in those who's realizations have only occurred in the last year or so. It's not a big deal, but it reminds me of how we all must have reeked of enlightenment at one point, and how we still sometimes let one rip that tickles the nostrils of our fellow beings.
Real-life stuff continues to be testing as I go through a difficult split, sit on the verge of having my house repossessed, and have just been sacked from my job. I'm appealing that last part though so fingers remain crossed, but to anyone looking in from the outside, this current situation looks like a nightmare scenario....yet I'm quite calm and incredibly clear headed, it's not that it's not difficult sometimes, I'm not the Buddha or anything, but these practices and ongoing realizations have made everyday life more manageable in the most practical and sensible ways. I've also found someone who's presence in my life has led to all sorts of incredible things and who's involved in this adventure just as much as I am, something I never thought possible but that's led to a deeper understanding of how genuinely amazing it is to be alive right now.
I'll sign off with a thank you to the Buddha, the Dharma, and this wonderful virtual-sangha we've got here at the DhO.
Peace out.
Tommy M:
As usual, I refuse to just call this a practice thread and be done with it.
So, a shift in perceptual baseline last night has prompted me to start another practice thread and try to document whatever the hell seems to be going on nowadays. There was a massive shift in baseline around two months ago, roughly, which left no sense of location, affective emotions or self-referential thought in its wake. Since then however, and also in the month or so preceding that shift, there have been at least another three significant and noticeable perceptual shifts which have caused my entire experience to become more 'fused'; phenomenologically, the way the visual field was divided into a centralized area of focus and peripheral vision has dissolved and become effortlessly panoramic; sounds are just sounds, it's like they hear themselves and there's no distinction experientially between hearing what what's heard, and this is also the case for the other sense doors a'la Bahiya Sutta.
So, a shift in perceptual baseline last night has prompted me to start another practice thread and try to document whatever the hell seems to be going on nowadays. There was a massive shift in baseline around two months ago, roughly, which left no sense of location, affective emotions or self-referential thought in its wake. Since then however, and also in the month or so preceding that shift, there have been at least another three significant and noticeable perceptual shifts which have caused my entire experience to become more 'fused'; phenomenologically, the way the visual field was divided into a centralized area of focus and peripheral vision has dissolved and become effortlessly panoramic; sounds are just sounds, it's like they hear themselves and there's no distinction experientially between hearing what what's heard, and this is also the case for the other sense doors a'la Bahiya Sutta.
I relate.
My everyday practice in recent months has moved more and more towards a Tibetan/Bön and Mahamudra-based approach, still basically freestyle non-dual concentration sort of stuff but with much more emphasis on emptiness and impermanence than before. My sits usually consist of 45 mins anapanasati but with attention to the bare sensations of the breath and seeing through the subtle fabrications still implying difference of any sort. "Subtle" seems to have become my word of the month, but it's the best way I can find to describe what's going on and to point out just how incredibly easy these little instances of clinging are to miss; accuracy in writing has also become much more important when trying to communicate now, much as I was a wordy bastard before it seems to have gotten even worse!
'Subtle' is a concept that got even more subtler as a term to overlay experience. I had to re-adjust my previous use of the term.
Anyway, to the practice...
Two sits today, both 45 mins in length but I worked with a Dzogchen technique called "Transforming the Five Skandhas Into the Five Tathagatha Buddhas", specifically the aggregate of form, in the first sit. It involves resting in the natural state (which I understand as being non-dual, non-conceptual awareness) and visualizing a white, egg-sized ball of brilliant white light, then recognizing the sphere and awareness as being inseperable, dependently arisen and luminous. After the shift last night, the ability to remain in that non-dual, non-conceptual awareness has become so natural as to be effortless, and so the only difficulty came when trying to visualize with any stability. I was able to call up a mental image but, and this is a pain in the arse to describe, it's not really an image as such, more like a stream of mental sensations that suggest something being "seen". It's weird to explain it but it seems more streamlined than just imagining something, more dynamic but functional nonetheless.
Two sits today, both 45 mins in length but I worked with a Dzogchen technique called "Transforming the Five Skandhas Into the Five Tathagatha Buddhas", specifically the aggregate of form, in the first sit. It involves resting in the natural state (which I understand as being non-dual, non-conceptual awareness) and visualizing a white, egg-sized ball of brilliant white light, then recognizing the sphere and awareness as being inseperable, dependently arisen and luminous. After the shift last night, the ability to remain in that non-dual, non-conceptual awareness has become so natural as to be effortless, and so the only difficulty came when trying to visualize with any stability. I was able to call up a mental image but, and this is a pain in the arse to describe, it's not really an image as such, more like a stream of mental sensations that suggest something being "seen". It's weird to explain it but it seems more streamlined than just imagining something, more dynamic but functional nonetheless.
I relate to this explanation. I find it too hard to describe accurately but you do a good job. It is sort of not right to call it a mental image, as it doesn't register as an image but sensations are arising to somehow give off that sense of something 'seen'. For example when trying to visualise the white ball, there is no 'white ball' image in the mind but some weird sense that it is understood and seen anyways. Damn hard to describe.
Word up, BTG.
I was looking at this last night actually, there are still the appearance of the jhana factors but they, even the mental qualities of 2nd onwards, seem to be more embodied and physical, if that makes any sense. I tend to stabilize on the breath within a matter of seconds, but from there I still keep the breath as an anchor while basically just opening awareness more and more to take in the entire sense field at one time. It's quite subtle and hard to explain, but it's like you become 100% mindful of everything happening without there being any segregation or division of objects, e.g. the sensations of the breath and the whole body, until I hit the formless realms, are experienced as being one and the same along with sounds, subtle mental movements and anything else I notice while sitting.
There's no longer any sense of a foreground/background split, those subtle things are noticed cause they seem like little 'kinks' in the sense field. It's not like they're seperate from anything else, I tend to think of them as feeling something like a record jumping on an old turntable; they're minute glitches of tension but they're noticeable enough to make you go "Gotcha ya little fucker"!
I'd suggest just trying to experience as much of the breath as possible, but also look at what implies physical sensations of rising and falling 'cause, in my experience so far, that distinction breaks down leaving just a sense of movement rather than of breathing. Again, it's kinda hard to describe accurately but it's as if the 'edges' of the breath cycles dissolve into the whole sense field and it's like each sensation of the breath is exactly the same as any and all other sensations happening at the same time.
* Do you use the breath to reach a certain point then drop it in favour of jhana factors / the non-dual stuff you've been talking about?
I was looking at this last night actually, there are still the appearance of the jhana factors but they, even the mental qualities of 2nd onwards, seem to be more embodied and physical, if that makes any sense. I tend to stabilize on the breath within a matter of seconds, but from there I still keep the breath as an anchor while basically just opening awareness more and more to take in the entire sense field at one time. It's quite subtle and hard to explain, but it's like you become 100% mindful of everything happening without there being any segregation or division of objects, e.g. the sensations of the breath and the whole body, until I hit the formless realms, are experienced as being one and the same along with sounds, subtle mental movements and anything else I notice while sitting.
* Or are you always conscious of each breath in part or entirety at the spot while the foreground is your exploration of these subtle things you mention?
There's no longer any sense of a foreground/background split, those subtle things are noticed cause they seem like little 'kinks' in the sense field. It's not like they're seperate from anything else, I tend to think of them as feeling something like a record jumping on an old turntable; they're minute glitches of tension but they're noticeable enough to make you go "Gotcha ya little fucker"!
I'd suggest just trying to experience as much of the breath as possible, but also look at what implies physical sensations of rising and falling 'cause, in my experience so far, that distinction breaks down leaving just a sense of movement rather than of breathing. Again, it's kinda hard to describe accurately but it's as if the 'edges' of the breath cycles dissolve into the whole sense field and it's like each sensation of the breath is exactly the same as any and all other sensations happening at the same time.
Last night, I realized that I no longer experience "thinking" or any sort of narrative, even subtly, operating. This seems so natural and normal that I hadn't even noticed it happening, there's a complete mental stillness and peace but I'm still able to reflect, consider or contemplate things without any difficulty. I keep on saying how some of these changes are hard to describe, but this one is even worse 'cause it's such a complete change in experiencing and the total lack of an inside/outside in experience is beyond words. Suffice to say, it's absolutely incredible.
I've hinted before on here about having met someone and being in a relationship with them for the last few months, but we'd deliberately kept silent about it for various reasons. However, we spoke last night and both decided that, since it actually does relate to this site, practice and the fact that we met through here, it'd be fun to 'go public' on here and use this as an opportunity to thank Daniel in particular for having made this possible: Steph S and I have been together now for a few months, and it's down to this site that we found each other in the first place. I know this might seem like a strange thing to bring up in a practice thread, but we both agreed that it'd worth making it known 'cause it's also allowed us both to get really deeply into examining love, connection to another person, and all manner of emotional investigations with some surprising results. I genuinely consider our relationship to have been what pushed me over the edge two months ago into this PCE mode 24/7 due to the levels of felicity and wonder involved, which may sound a bit cheesy but, to be honest, I couldn't care less. It's been an incredibly journey so far and I can say wholeheartedly that being devoid of affective emotion does not interfere with my ability to be in a close and caring relationship with another person. If anything, it's much, much, much better as there's no trace of clinging or neediness involved on either side!
I've hinted before on here about having met someone and being in a relationship with them for the last few months, but we'd deliberately kept silent about it for various reasons. However, we spoke last night and both decided that, since it actually does relate to this site, practice and the fact that we met through here, it'd be fun to 'go public' on here and use this as an opportunity to thank Daniel in particular for having made this possible: Steph S and I have been together now for a few months, and it's down to this site that we found each other in the first place. I know this might seem like a strange thing to bring up in a practice thread, but we both agreed that it'd worth making it known 'cause it's also allowed us both to get really deeply into examining love, connection to another person, and all manner of emotional investigations with some surprising results. I genuinely consider our relationship to have been what pushed me over the edge two months ago into this PCE mode 24/7 due to the levels of felicity and wonder involved, which may sound a bit cheesy but, to be honest, I couldn't care less.
It's been an incredibly journey so far and I can say wholeheartedly that being devoid of affective emotion does not interfere with my ability to be in a close and caring relationship with another person. If anything, it's much, much, much better as there's no trace of clinging or neediness involved on either side!
Congrats! Much happiness to you two. 
Tolle Love and Relationships
He seems to say the same thing you say about clinging in relationships.
Tolle Love and Relationships
He seems to say the same thing you say about clinging in relationships.
Inspiring post Tommy ! I'm wondering though how would you recommend handling neediness from the other side because I'm surely going to be subjected to that soon enough ? I know at the background I have the intent to be free of malice but sometimes one just wants to do a sensible/reasonable thing while the other may not and this creates crap especially when the
other has no interest in meditation/pce etc
other has no interest in meditation/pce etc
Aye, it's something everyone's got to contend with at some point but it's also soaked with potential for breaking down the social identity, as well as the emotional imprints which fuel the fundamental belief supporting the arising of a "me" in any way. It's also something I've had to contend with a lot in the past so I can speak from experience here...
In my own investigations of this, neediness seems to be down to a lack of confidence, a lack of self-belief, which may seem like an odd phrase given the context of this post, and stuff related to childhood, trust and issues of abandonment; I was, and am, very much loved and cared for by my parents, they're lovely people and raised me pretty well but, through chance, fate, genetics, psychology, karmic tendencies or however you want to describe it, experiences happen which lead to the formation of certain deep-rooted emotional/psychological/neurological (I'm just throwing it out there but I can't say with any certainty what the specific physical nature of these mental formations are) imprints which then repeat themselves when similar situations arise.
I found out how "I" experienced things in that way, when "I" was needy because, at it's root, the thought of being alone scared me and made me want a female companion, basically trying to 'get back to mum' in a psychological sense; a thought which originated in some trivial moment of being lost in a supermarket as a kid or something, but which fuelled so much crap in my life that it's ridiculous!
As for dealing with it in someone else, sorting it out in yourself makes it much easier to do 'cause you become more understanding and less willing to react. However, that's an ideal scenario and I know the reality of it isn't quite as straightforward.
I'd suggest looking at how you react to their behaviour, what their actions seem to trigger in/as "you". Be attentive to whatever physical and/or mental sensations appear, it makes it easier not to just react negatively and, if you genuinely want to be with that person, perhaps even help them understand how their actions appear to you and how you're willing to be as understanding as possible. Obviously don't be a doormat or an emotional tampon, that'd be pointless and probably quite unattractive, but a relationship happens between (usually) two people and requires a mutual willingness to communicate openly; This sounds like total self-help bullshit, I know and I'm deeply disgusted with myself...
But I've gone through a messy separation and all the various unpleasantness involved in that, so I speak from experience on how not to have a relationship with someone and hope that some real-life examples will be more useful than any mystical shmystical stuff.Something else to look at it is how the basis of an argument is always about some either/or thing, one person thinks one thing and the other disagrees. Anything above and beyond that basic push/pull mental process is pure belief, the very fuel that allows "you" to continue to propagate yourself via identification with those thoughts, those beliefs and mental fabrications. Check that shit out.
Awww xoxo
Totally agreed that it's absolutely spectacular, adventurous, and the happiness keeps opening up more and more dazzling perfection.
Thanks so much for the well wishes, friends. And that video is right on, Richard. Thanks for posting it. He makes excellent points about just being totally with a person and accepting them as they are, without wanting to change them. Also something he said about reflecting things back to eachother... we've often mentioned about acting as a mirror or prism, dancing this shimmering light back and forth (or not even back and forth, so it seems, just magnifying it or something like that).
Totally agreed that it's absolutely spectacular, adventurous, and the happiness keeps opening up more and more dazzling perfection.
Thanks so much for the well wishes, friends. And that video is right on, Richard. Thanks for posting it. He makes excellent points about just being totally with a person and accepting them as they are, without wanting to change them. Also something he said about reflecting things back to eachother... we've often mentioned about acting as a mirror or prism, dancing this shimmering light back and forth (or not even back and forth, so it seems, just magnifying it or something like that).
Hey Tommy, YOUR practice thread has been really helpful for my practice. Thanks
It's reassuring to hear I'm not going down a dead end, seeing as I'm a way away from the official instructions of the U Ba Khin style of vipassana I allegedly practice heh!
Only when doing anapana strictly at "the spot" and only a couple of times on retreat. The experience is totally alien to anything I could point to in everyday life or even my current swirly practice. There is simply no "gap" between obeserver and observed, and you can feel the breath in every particle of your being. I want to describe it as orangey-yellow for some reason...
It's reassuring to hear I'm not going down a dead end, seeing as I'm a way away from the official instructions of the U Ba Khin style of vipassana I allegedly practice heh!
Have you ever had any sort of experience where you actually become the breath?
Only when doing anapana strictly at "the spot" and only a couple of times on retreat. The experience is totally alien to anything I could point to in everyday life or even my current swirly practice. There is simply no "gap" between obeserver and observed, and you can feel the breath in every particle of your being. I want to describe it as orangey-yellow for some reason...
I did read this whole thread once with the intention of adding to it, but I was distracted. Now, given the bump of it, I have at least read the last post and here are some thoughts about it.
Can you tell me more about this bounce and specifically how and why it is no longer present?
I know you're interested in communication and learning to present your thoughts as best as possible so I thought to chime in and say that this particular passage "smells of Tommy's mind" to me, if you know what I mean. I hope you get that the right way, I don't intend any harm in saying that, in fact, this is how I talk about my own communication with others. I admit that it could be a lack of clear understanding (as opposed to lack of clear expression).
Dude, tell me 'bout it. It's freakin' amazing. Language is transparent, fractal and kaleidoscopic. It makes me wonder if there are other, more 'natural' ways of communicating that we as a race might not have discovered yet.
Given that I consider your progress more advanced and because you wrote...
… but I recognize what you're writing about here…
… then I'd like to ask about this
Is what you're describing here the same as this:
The point being that an overlay or addition to the sensations of the muscles fell away and the sensations became 'one with the soup'. The sensations which I would normally call "my arm" were suddenly floating in characterless space - not beholden to anyone or belonging to anything (like, say, an arm or a body).
Another thought strikes me: I remember we were dabbling in something like this before, on Skype: I was questioning what was being called the smallest modalities of experience, like heat and pressure, and suggesting that even these modalities can be broken up into parts. This was considered not possible and the likes of hardness and volume were stated to be the atomic (indivisible) units of 'all this', and I wonder if you're still of the same conviction.
Care to elaborate on what upper-part means?
This is something that I experience, too. I find myself being completely fulfilled by the most normal of perceptions, like blue, distance, reflections on cars, even the sensations suggesting closed/narrow spaces! In an attempt to understand this, can you tell me more about your experience of this? How it comes about, how it stays and how it fades?
Contrary to you, I'm quite sure I'm experiencing affection. It's mixed in there. I'm usually well aware of it, but it's nice and seems almost taint-free, even though it's not.
Which bring me to the part of your post that actually prompted me to reply:
Right now, this is so spot on for me. Screw noble truths, marks of existence and instinctual passions - this get's right to the heart of it for me.
(No, really, those are all nice ideals/concepts/scaffolding/Truths.)
(Hoho.)
EDIT:
To elaborate on that last reply-to-quote: the juxtaposition of clear, pure, clean "amazingness" with dirty and tainted "emotion"; that just says it all for me.
Tommy M:
The stripping back of experience to the point of sense contact seems to be essential to emptying the aggregates, without the 'bounce' of attention it's possible to go really deep into the perceptual process and break down those fundamental assumptions about the nature of experience which remain unquestioned.
Can you tell me more about this bounce and specifically how and why it is no longer present?
Tommy M:
(…) fabrications are impermanent in the same way as anything else is, but watching how your own mental models - which are built from those same fabrications and supported by them in this weird self-perpetuating loop - change, and (…)
I know you're interested in communication and learning to present your thoughts as best as possible so I thought to chime in and say that this particular passage "smells of Tommy's mind" to me, if you know what I mean. I hope you get that the right way, I don't intend any harm in saying that, in fact, this is how I talk about my own communication with others. I admit that it could be a lack of clear understanding (as opposed to lack of clear expression).
Tommy M:
(…) especially the way in which your use and understanding of language changes as you progress, for me at least, revealed something incredible about the emptiness of language itself.
Dude, tell me 'bout it. It's freakin' amazing. Language is transparent, fractal and kaleidoscopic. It makes me wonder if there are other, more 'natural' ways of communicating that we as a race might not have discovered yet.
Given that I consider your progress more advanced and because you wrote...
Tommy M:
I could say more about the details of this but I'm struggling to phrase it clearly enough to avoid any confusion, it's really easy to mix this up with less subtle aspects of experience
… but I recognize what you're writing about here…
Tommy M:
(…) the process of recognition and the way that information is parsed is entirely mental. "Bodily sensations" are just sensations, the "bodily" part is still overlay, it's still a fabrication which implies a false dichotomy between those sensations and any other sensations. Those sensations themselves don't imply an independently existing object called "a body", and in themselves contain no information which implies either internal or external, it's pure imputation and is supported by no more than an assumption.
… then I'd like to ask about this
Is what you're describing here the same as this:
Stian Gudmundsen Høiland:
I became aware of some sensations of progressively relaxing muscles in my arms. Suddenly I realize that those sensations (in a lack of better words) 'taste' or 'looks' or 'smells' or 'feels' exactly like vision when I'm in a PCE. There's a quality, a quality of selflessness, that was suddenly realized. The sensations of the muscles in my arms 'feels' the same way the sight of a spotted banana peel feels - not mine.
The point being that an overlay or addition to the sensations of the muscles fell away and the sensations became 'one with the soup'. The sensations which I would normally call "my arm" were suddenly floating in characterless space - not beholden to anyone or belonging to anything (like, say, an arm or a body).
Another thought strikes me: I remember we were dabbling in something like this before, on Skype: I was questioning what was being called the smallest modalities of experience, like heat and pressure, and suggesting that even these modalities can be broken up into parts. This was considered not possible and the likes of hardness and volume were stated to be the atomic (indivisible) units of 'all this', and I wonder if you're still of the same conviction.
Tommy M:
(...) the 'upper-part' of the visual field are seen effortlessly and look so high, vast and almost cartoon-like in their liveliness and luminosity.
Care to elaborate on what upper-part means?
Tommy M:
It's incredible, I've stopped in the middle of a busy street, totally taken aback by how amazing the world looks and standing there in total wonderment as people walk by, unaware of this mundane perfection.
This is something that I experience, too. I find myself being completely fulfilled by the most normal of perceptions, like blue, distance, reflections on cars, even the sensations suggesting closed/narrow spaces! In an attempt to understand this, can you tell me more about your experience of this? How it comes about, how it stays and how it fades?
Contrary to you, I'm quite sure I'm experiencing affection. It's mixed in there. I'm usually well aware of it, but it's nice and seems almost taint-free, even though it's not.
Which bring me to the part of your post that actually prompted me to reply:
Tommy M:
(…) the ever-present spacious, luminous amazingness of experience makes emotion seem dirty or tainted; This is well worth whatever it takes to get 'here' and any fears of how no affective overlay might be a bad thing seem utterly ridiculous.
Right now, this is so spot on for me. Screw noble truths, marks of existence and instinctual passions - this get's right to the heart of it for me.
(No, really, those are all nice ideals/concepts/scaffolding/Truths.)
(Hoho.)
EDIT:
To elaborate on that last reply-to-quote: the juxtaposition of clear, pure, clean "amazingness" with dirty and tainted "emotion"; that just says it all for me.
Clearly there's an experiential distinction between peripheral and central vision: visual acuity/resolution/detail.
This is a good example of how it's difficult to describe this accurately simply due to the nature of language. When I say there's no experiential distinction between peripheral and central vision, it's more to do with the way seeing is experienced as a whole. You're correct in saying that things like resolution and detail could be considered distinctions, but, and this is where it gets tough, they're not experienced as being separate from the process of seeing and aren't objectified in the same way anymore. It's hard to explain it and I can see what you're saying, which is correct from a certain perspective, but experientially it's more 'fused'. Goddamned words...
Tommy M:
Clearly there's an experiential distinction between peripheral and central vision: visual acuity/resolution/detail.
This is a good example of how it's difficult to describe this accurately simply due to the nature of language. When I say there's no experiential distinction between peripheral and central vision, it's more to do with the way seeing is experienced as a whole. You're correct in saying that things like resolution and detail could be considered distinctions, but, and this is where it gets tough, they're not experienced as being separate from the process of seeing and aren't objectified in the same way anymore. It's hard to explain it and I can see what you're saying, which is correct from a certain perspective, but experientially it's more 'fused'. Goddamned words...
Everything is just seamlessly, stably, present/perceptible in an interlocked way. 'Periphery' doesn't seem to apply because there's no edge to what's visible. In a curious sense there's no "looking at" or "looking away from".. which sounds absurd because you can obviously still move your head around, change your focus, blink, do anything you normally do.... seeing is just seamlessly being interlocked with whatever's visibly present, so it comes prior to "looking" (and somehow it makes "looking" seem clumsy, clunky, redundant).
When you say "fused", it makes perfect sense to me. But trying to write about it makes it sound more complicated than it is.
Inspired by Omega Point's recent post, I've decided to begin practicing the preliminary techniques involved in learning tummo. It's been something I've been interested in for a long time, and the dissection of the practices done by y'er man O.P., as well as information gleaned from a post on Kenneth's site, provided enough information to begin to approach this safely. I understand that these sorts of practices should really be done with a teacher, but I'm willing to take a risk if it contributes to the ending of suffering for all sentient beings in any way. Some of the techniques O.P. recommended on that thread are things I've either worked with previously or have continued to work with for several years now, e.g. breath-control and retention, "kundalini fire-breathing", as well as strengthening of the PC muscles and experience of generating heat through visualization and directed-attention. However, I am literally taking this a tiny step at a time, coming at it as an absolute beginner in the same way I came to vipassana and taking my time to get to grips with the basics.
The last few days have been spent on improving breath-retention, visualization/'feeling out' of the three channels and basic concentration with an emphasis on fixing attention on specific bodily points. I've also been doing breath stuff through the day, as well as regular concentration practice and continuing to observe subtle mental movements and tensions; some of these, as I've gotten more familiar with them, do seem to have a physical aspect, e.g. there's a very slight tension which happens around the eye itself, followed by a tiny contraction or mental movement towards recognizing the perception of a visual object. As usual, hard to describe but I'm still working with it and will find clearer ways to get this across eventually.
Anyhow, I've started learning Tsa Lung using the instructions given by Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche but haven't put it into practice yet. I have, however, started practicing the Nine Breathings of Purification as a preliminary to Tsa Lung proper and had an interesting experience today while on the bus... Glamorous, eh?
It was during the journey home that, while simply following the breath as bare sensation, no mental overlay occurring, I experienced the clear and definite arising of heat at the spot where the initial visualizations involved in tummo begin. Recognizing this as being related to being much more attentive to the energetic system, I went with it and placed the attention on the chakra point below the navel before guiding the heat upwards through the navel chakra, resting there for a minute or so with the breath held, and then on like so up to the crown and out. Stopping at the chest, I expanded the sense of heat and felt what I can only describe as this pure compassion emanate from my heart, but not in a way that was visual or even really tactile in the way you might think of it.
A burst of incredible, cool bliss occurred as the heat rose up through the crown chakra; the only way I can describe the sensate experience when this happened is like the Bahiya Sutta, this clear as day, super high-resolution subjectless immediacy. This remained for around 20 minutes or so, but the perceptual baseline was left clearer than before and with a better 'feel' of the energetic system. I don't attribute anything spectacular to it or hold it as any evidence of attainment, it was an interesting and informative experience which I wanted to mention on this thread as it's relevant to my current practice.
I recognized this heat from previous experiences of kundalini, as well as yoga practices I did prior to getting into Buddhism so I feel comfortable with the basics although, as stated already, I'm taking this veeeryyy slowly.
Interesting stuff...
P.S. If Omega Point reads this thread at any time: I'd appreciate it if you could say a bit more about the heat and emptiness cycles as I want to make sure I'm understanding it correctly. If you, or anyone else familiar with these techniques, sees any errors in what I'm doing then please correct me as I'd like to learn the basics of this, but don't have access to a teacher where I live.`
The last few days have been spent on improving breath-retention, visualization/'feeling out' of the three channels and basic concentration with an emphasis on fixing attention on specific bodily points. I've also been doing breath stuff through the day, as well as regular concentration practice and continuing to observe subtle mental movements and tensions; some of these, as I've gotten more familiar with them, do seem to have a physical aspect, e.g. there's a very slight tension which happens around the eye itself, followed by a tiny contraction or mental movement towards recognizing the perception of a visual object. As usual, hard to describe but I'm still working with it and will find clearer ways to get this across eventually.
Anyhow, I've started learning Tsa Lung using the instructions given by Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche but haven't put it into practice yet. I have, however, started practicing the Nine Breathings of Purification as a preliminary to Tsa Lung proper and had an interesting experience today while on the bus...
Glamorous, eh?It was during the journey home that, while simply following the breath as bare sensation, no mental overlay occurring, I experienced the clear and definite arising of heat at the spot where the initial visualizations involved in tummo begin. Recognizing this as being related to being much more attentive to the energetic system, I went with it and placed the attention on the chakra point below the navel before guiding the heat upwards through the navel chakra, resting there for a minute or so with the breath held, and then on like so up to the crown and out. Stopping at the chest, I expanded the sense of heat and felt what I can only describe as this pure compassion emanate from my heart, but not in a way that was visual or even really tactile in the way you might think of it.
A burst of incredible, cool bliss occurred as the heat rose up through the crown chakra; the only way I can describe the sensate experience when this happened is like the Bahiya Sutta, this clear as day, super high-resolution subjectless immediacy. This remained for around 20 minutes or so, but the perceptual baseline was left clearer than before and with a better 'feel' of the energetic system. I don't attribute anything spectacular to it or hold it as any evidence of attainment, it was an interesting and informative experience which I wanted to mention on this thread as it's relevant to my current practice.
I recognized this heat from previous experiences of kundalini, as well as yoga practices I did prior to getting into Buddhism so I feel comfortable with the basics although, as stated already, I'm taking this veeeryyy slowly.
Interesting stuff...
P.S. If Omega Point reads this thread at any time: I'd appreciate it if you could say a bit more about the heat and emptiness cycles as I want to make sure I'm understanding it correctly. If you, or anyone else familiar with these techniques, sees any errors in what I'm doing then please correct me as I'd like to learn the basics of this, but don't have access to a teacher where I live.`