Dzogchen books

Olaf Treebark, modified 8 Years ago.

Dzogchen books

Posts: 5 Join Date: 5/20/12 Recent Posts
Dear all,

Can anyone recommend a high quality presentation of Dzogchen teachings, ideally from a pragmatic dharma point of view?

Many thanks,

Olaf
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Tommy M, modified 8 Years ago.

RE: Dzogchen books

Posts: 1199 Join Date: 11/12/10 Recent Posts
Hey Olaf,

Check out a book called "Heartdrops of the Dharmakaya", that's one of the best ones I've come across yet. Also "Bonpo Dzogchen Teachings" by Lopon Tenzin Namdak is really good.

Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche has quite a good channel on youtube which has lots of practical material on it, it's worth a look.

http://www.youtube.com/user/ligmincha
Adam . ., modified 8 Years ago.

RE: Dzogchen books

Posts: 613 Join Date: 3/20/12 Recent Posts
Tommy I watched Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche's three "unification of the three spaces" videos. When he says 'notice the space around the ego' or something like that, do you think he means we should notice the sensations of space around the affective sensations and identify more with the space ones? The only reason I didn't think he was talking about consciousness itself is that he seemed to suggest that it was some experience that was "space" rather than simply awareness itself.
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fivebells ., modified 8 Years ago.

RE: Dzogchen books

Posts: 566 Join Date: 2/25/11 Recent Posts
Olaf Treebark:
Can anyone recommend a high quality presentation of Dzogchen teachings, ideally from a pragmatic dharma point of view?

Clarifying the Natural State
An Eternal Now, modified 8 Years ago.

RE: Dzogchen books

Posts: 638 Join Date: 9/15/09 Recent Posts
fivebells .:
Olaf Treebark:
Can anyone recommend a high quality presentation of Dzogchen teachings, ideally from a pragmatic dharma point of view?

Clarifying the Natural State
This is another awesome book, but it is Mahamudra and not Dzogchen.

Also recommended for Mahamudra:

Essentials of Mahamudra: Looking Directly at the Mind by Thrangu Rinpoche.



If you want a thick, hardcore, technical/pragmatic (visudhimagga-like) Mahamudra book, check out Mahamudra: The Moonlight: Quintessence of Mind and Meditation

Clarifying the Natural State is like a condensed version by the same author, easier to read yet still hardcore/precise/pithy, a valuable guide for meditators with plenty of good advises.
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fivebells ., modified 8 Years ago.

RE: Dzogchen books

Posts: 566 Join Date: 2/25/11 Recent Posts
The differences seem superficial to me, but it could be my ignorance. What do you see as the important differences between the two?
An Eternal Now, modified 8 Years ago.

RE: Dzogchen books

Posts: 638 Join Date: 9/15/09 Recent Posts
fivebells .:
The differences seem superficial to me, but it could be my ignorance. What do you see as the important differences between the two?
"The state of Dzogchen and the state of Mahāmudra are not two different states. They are the same thing.

The path of Dzogchen and the path of Mahāmudra are completely different.

The superior path is whichever one you will actually practice.

My initial point, which prompted this flood of comments, was to disabuse someone of the notion that the meditation of mahāmudra, dzogchen and Soto Zen are more or less the same. This assertion could not be more mistaken.

N"

"However things may have been prior to the 11th century, since then tögal is the main thrust of Dzogchen practice. And since this is so, the way the basis is described is different, necessarily so. And so I still do not agree that similarity in terminology indicates similarity in intention.

N"

"Generally speaking it works like this -- if you read books by Kagyus, Mahāmudra and Dzogchen are the same. If you read books by Nyingmapas, they are different, and Kagyu Mahāmudra is just Dzogchen sems sde in drag. Sakyapas happily admit Dzogchen and Mahāmudra are different (where they are not shunning it as a Hashang deviation) and charitable Gelugpas like HHDL try to convince everyone that the fundamental mind of clear light and Dzogchen are the same.

Me, I stick with what ChNN says about the issue (i.e. Dzogchen and Mahāmudra are completely different, with different paths and so on).

N"

"Kagyu Mahamudra is gradual and experiential, so some people think it is a more suitable instruction for acquainting people with the nature of the mind.

Dzogchen introduction is also experiential, but it really depends on the student's acumen to get it since it is not as gradual and step by step."

~ Loppon Namdrol/Malcolm

In short:

While the 'goal' may be said to be similar, there are clear and obvious differences in the path. Dzogchen practices Thogal, Mahamaudra doesn't.

Mahamudra introduces nature of mind more systematically.

There are other differences... but... can't remember for now.

Thrangu Rinpoche:

"I think that it is of far greater importance than the experience of dramatic instantaneous pointing out that people be taught mahamudra as a full system of instruction that they can implement on their own gradually through diligent application using either one of the three texts by the Ninth Gyalwang Karmapa—The Ocean of Definitive Meaning, Dispelling the Darkness of Ignorance, or Pointing Out the Dharmakaya— or one of the texts by Dakpo Tashi Namgyal—either Moonbeams of Mahamudra or The Clarification of the Natural State.
In short, I think it is of far more importance that people receive this kind of complete and systematic instruction so that they can gradually develop experience on their own, than that some kind of dramatic pointing-out procedure be done. Of course, it is possible to give dramatic pointing-out instruction, and when you do so, some people do recognize their mind’s nature. But, if I may say so, I question the stability and, therefore, ultimately the value of that. It certainly is a dramatic experience for those people who achieve it, but I see no evidence of their kleshas diminishing as a result. And furthermore, they then carry away with them the arrogance of the thought, “I have seen my mind’s nature.” I think it is of far greater importance actually to practice meditation slowly and surely and make all possible use of the resources which this book in particular gives you. It is after all a big book and contains within it much instruction, much guidance, and a lot of questions that can help you to question and therefore refine your own experience."
(Ocean of Definitive Meaning, p. 127-128)
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Jeff Grove, modified 8 Years ago.

RE: Dzogchen books

Posts: 310 Join Date: 8/24/09 Recent Posts
If your investigating Dzogchen practices you will find the following interesting (Nik and Tom enjoy)

(Restricted) Tony Duffs translation of the Yeshe Lama which is the most important practice manual on the Great Perfection teachings of the Nyingma tradition covering rushan, trechö and tögal

can be found at

thepiratebay.se/torrent/6905994/Tony_Duff_Collection_(Dzogchen)


Another suggestion is
http://www.yogichen.org/cw/cw32/bk084.html
http://www.yogichen.org/cw/cw32/bk085.html

and

http://www.yogichen.org/cw/cw35/BM%20Format.pdf

cheers
Jeff
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fivebells ., modified 8 Years ago.

RE: Dzogchen books

Posts: 566 Join Date: 2/25/11 Recent Posts
Thanks, AEN. I'm coming from a Kagyu background, so that may be where my impression comes from too.
Karma Tsultrim Tharchin, modified 8 Years ago.

RE: Dzogchen books

Posts: 4 Join Date: 5/26/10 Recent Posts
The Crystal and the way of Light, by Chogyal Namkhai Norbu.
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R. Gabriel Hill, modified 8 Years ago.

RE: Dzogchen books

Posts: 27 Join Date: 5/4/10 Recent Posts
I've only read a few works on Dzogchen, but found this one to be excellent: Quintessential Dzogchen: Confusion Dawns As Wisdom, ed. Tulku Urgyen Rinpoche (Rangjung Yeshe Publications, 2006). It is indeed a high quality collection of writings from a good number of teachers, both ancient and contemporary. I find it very approachable and applicable even though I am not trained as a Dzogchen practioner.
Best wishes!
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James Yen, modified 8 Years ago.

RE: Dzogchen books

Posts: 270 Join Date: 9/6/09 Recent Posts
I've had trouble finding Dzogchen practice books actually.

"The Practice of Dzogchen" by Longchen Rabjam is pretty good.

BUT! The title is misleading as most of it is history, some of it is practice related though.
An Eternal Now, modified 8 Years ago.

RE: Dzogchen books

Posts: 638 Join Date: 9/15/09 Recent Posts
Cycle of Day and Night by Chogyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche, favourite Dzogchen practice book thus far. This is not a 'presentation of the teaching' book, but a pure rigpa-practice book. For 'presentation of the teachings' sort of book, refer to Crystal and the Way of Light.

CoDaN has to do with maintaining rigpa 24/7. But not so much about Thogal. I guess it will truly make sense however, only if one has genuine recognition of rigpa to begin with. Dzogchen is not a gradual system. Either you recognise rigpa in which case you can begin to practice Dzogchen, or you don't (even after receiving direct introduction), in which case you can practice one of their self-introductions such as rushan or semdzin. Guru yoga is IMO also a form of self-introduction, and in ChNNR's teaching, guru yoga is the core fundamental practice throughout - all other practices are secondary. ChNNR told me that in dream too, then the next day sent me another e-mail saying the same thing.