I want to start this off by saying my goal isn't specifically to get into Jhana models and try to make sense of these things within that context. I used to worry about that but I don't think it is really important for where I am at; probably detrimental. But I used the term in the thread because what I am talking about definitely has something to do with the models you would get in Brasignton, Taft, TWIM, MCTB2 etc. sort of thing. With that being said, I am a bit familiar with those models so please feel free to refer to them if you'd like; I will just try to stick with pretty raw descriptions of my phenomonelogy. 

There has been a general pattern which comes up for me over the past few months. I will break them into stages as the appear phenomenologicaly to me:

In stage 1, attention is pretty small in size (no more than a 12" volumetrically), mind oscillates between contraction/craving/train of thought and letting go of that. There's usually some coarse sensations in the body can be intense and pleasurable or quite subtle and neutral. Usually such sensations are taken up as the meditation object after establishing Joy and Relaxtion sort of fators in the mind.

In stage 2, I would say the difference here is that attention is usually more like 12-24" and probably less of getting lost in trains of thought (less frequent and shorter lasting). Beyond that... this does not feel particularly distinct from stage 1. Maybe it will as I keep practicing but I don't obsess over it.

In stage 3, this is where a weird oscilation begins and is a main concern. I think the onset of this stage begins with a pretty clear and expansive concious space particularly visualy speaking. Then, the mind will fall into sort of a sleep like state which is the opposite of clear and expansive. It will follow that for however long, then abrutply open back up again into the concious and wide space, and often accompanied by pretty stable and pleasant sensations in the body. Then we drop back into contracted and unconcious for a moment. This oscilation keeps occurring and there are two outcomes. If I am particularly sleep deprived, the contracted and unconcious periods tend to be longer. Otherwise, the awake and expansive periods become longer and usually the body starts to feel real good. Awareness and attention become less discrete but quite broad, and in this stage there's a noticeable lack of a controller. Whereas before there is some sense of the intention stream prompting attention to different places (though attention also just moves wherever the fuck it wants to impersonally at all stages), that sense is basically gone.

Foot note: Though the mind becomes contracted and unconcious at times here... it does not feel the same as mundane contraction/craving type stuff in daily moments. Those mundane contraction/craving moments fundamentally feel like they generate dukkha. In this case it feels more like just falling asleep. Not necessarily a good thing but there is something distinct here.

In stage 4, which seems to occur after an indeterminate number of these oscilations, the body feels great, the mind feels expansive, and there's no more oscilation into contraction/unconciousness. But the mind also feels super energetic and immediately wants to jump back into "doing" (which usually means work since I typically meditate during lunch breaks). In as little as two years ago, if I was going to give up on "sitting" or "walking" before my timer goes off, it would be out of frustration that my mind isn't calming down. Thankfully I am over that but this is the new and improved version. The mind just loses interest in meditating and the very idea of a contracting down to a meditation object does not feel right either. 

I am mostly curious to hear your thoughts about stages 3 and 4. I don't know if these map to Jhanas 3 and 4 (it's fine if they do or don't) but the do appear as distinct stages for me. I don't feel like there's anything to do in stage 3 except just ride out the oscilation, but stage 4 has been a big question mark for me. I have heard some models/teachers say that this might be a space where it makes sense to start sort of doing absolutely nothing and just experience that broader awareness as it is. If that sounds appropriate, I will try setting that intention well ahead of time in anticipation of the "alright, I feel great, no need to keep meditating, let's get something done" type of enery that comes up. 

Thank you for responses and making it through my verbosity. I don't do it deliberately... it is just my nature to be rambly.

 

Ryan, I suggest we try this process to help you figure things out: 

1. Watch this video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRdiOoTZC3A
2. Does what you see in the video (descriptions of jhana states by Nick Halay) seem to describe what happens to you?

Please let us know!

This sounds like you are developing a stable practice and making good observations about what the mind does when it is left alone for a while and settles. There are repeatable patterns and you are noticing them. This is good practice. 

You are also noticing things like getting lost in trains of thought and oscillations. That indicates that there is more room for stabilization. You mention jhanas, and it's helpful to know that various different mind states are referred to as jhanas. At one end of the spectrum, people mean a kind of flavor of mind, at the other end there are states so profound that all contact with the external senses is lost. Even in what many people call "light" jhanas, the experience can be so strong and overwhelming that there can be no doubt about what is going on. It's about as subtle as an eighteen-wheeler truck driving through your living room. That doesn't mean that the thing where there is just a different flavor to experience is not valuable, it just means that the range is very broad and, if you keep practicing, you may arrive at some very strong experiences (at a quite literally unbelievable level).

If you are interested in categorizing your experience, you might the book, The Mind Illuminated, which lays out different levels of concentration in a very clear-cut way. 

 Sounds good, I'll take a look now and report it as I go along with the video.

1st Jhana: The visual focus being contracted, size of attention being small, and the sense of efforting definitely tracks. Yeah... bubbly is not exactly how I would describe it for body sensations but they feel kind of energetic and unstable as opposed to calm and stable. This person might be describing a more acute or high resolution body awareness than what I have. I don't really start to notice too much outside of the spotlight attention at early on.

2nd Jhana: Yeah... the focus widening a little tracks and the sort of global relaxation. That happens pretty much every time after a few minutes of the first stage thingy (unless the mind is really all over the place). For me, the bodily sensations don't really calm down along with focus widening though. The efforting thing doesn't really track. It still feels like my mind can get pulled into imagination/train of thought and there is a sense of having to invoke effort here. However, the flipside of this is that going through that process doesn't feel effortful in the sense that getting lost in thought then returning has a natural rythm to it. What a god awful sentence that was. There's a percieved effort but the knowledge that efforting is a bit like trying to smooth water over with a flat iron.

3rd Jhana: Blissful sensations/vibrations, yes. It doesn't feel feel on the surface though. I can't say whether that's a phenomological difference or I don't have the resolutional capacity to tell between sensations on the surface vs within the body in limbs. I am inclined to say the internal/external location doesn't change; it all feels like sensations within an imagined sort of proprioceptive (body scanning) space. However, the sensations themselvs absolutely change in quality. As for what the fellow describes about the "focus", yes, more around the periphery.

Also, whereas before I would generally only feel sensation in sort of what I will call central chakras (whatever), the limbs might actually become the more distinct places in terms of pleasant and fairly stable sensations. The "chakras" lose significance and become more diffuse generally... except maybe sometimes the top of the head. Generally the whole body is in awareness to some degree but it is not filled in.

This is where the oscilatory thing starts happening for me.

4th Jhana: Some of these things absolutey track, usually after a couple of those oscilations. At this point there is bliss but it can become very subtle. Awareness broadly covers the whole body and in quite a filled in way. Also what I notice is that attention (the spotlight thing) itself almost diffuses to the point where focusing it on a small area (like the chest) sort of feels like trying to grasp a handful of water. Also, usually after a couple of oscilations, the boundaries of the body absolutely can start to drop away. On very rare occasion (I can remember this happening a couple weeks ago) the boundaries fade entirely but there's no sense of infinite space; just a diffuse and sort of neutralish-peaceful feeling in that space.

Usually around when the edges of the body start to fade is when the mind starts to become very energetic and I get that feeling of "ok, done, let's get up now."

I think I will stop there for now. Thoughts? Thank you; I really appreciate the input.
 

 Thanks for the input Martin.

I have heard a bit about the spectrum of light Jhanas versus... the much deeper ones. I would be inclined to say that whatever I am doing is much on the lighter side as I don't generally do formal practice for more than about 20-40 minutes a day. 

"Even in what many people call "light" jhanas, the experience can be so strong and overwhelming that there can be no doubt about what is going on. It's about as subtle as an eighteen-wheeler truck driving through your living room."

Oh hell yeah. There's nothing subtle about the top of my head exploding with energy for 45 minutes. Hilariously, when that happened last year I thought it was the mark of the 4th Jhana (TWIM instructions which I followed at the time said wait for the Metta to go to your head) and wasted a lot of hours using that as some kind of Jhana benchmark. I'm also reminded of when the mind noticed attention and the intention stream were impersonal and that hit like a truck (glad I was alone at the time). 

"If you are interested in categorizing your experience, you might the book, The Mind Illuminated, which lays out different levels of concentration in a very clear-cut way. "

I am absolutey interested in that on a nerdy "fit everything in boxes level". But I am also a bit wary that I have consumed to many models and spent too much time trying to fit my experience into them. Do you think that book might contain some practical stuff for my current stage (to the extent that you could guess based on my posts haha)?
 
EDIT: I am reading a suggestion here that stabalizing might be worth looking at? If so, does one do that by sitting in lighter jhana/whatever or access concentration for longer periods? In my practice I am not really intending to stay in anything; it is more just letting this progres according to a few intentions set at the start of the pratice session.

Yes - what does it feel like as you transition from one state to another? Can you use intent to determine which of the four states to enter, or do you have to enter them sequentially? If you can, try to remain in one of them and see if you can deepen it. What happens? What is the triggering experience that causes you to slide into these states?

Thanks for the detailed report!

For the earlier state, say 1-2 (maybe the start of 3), the most palpable difference is in the size of attention/awareness and the degree to which they start to overlap. If I'm doing walking meditation, there's usually like an "Ahhhhh" moment where the visual field and that spotlight attention just relax and open up a little. If I'm doing sitting or laying down meditation, probably the closest proxy would be an "Ahhhh" moment in the body where it sort of just relaxes heavily. It can be quite noticeabe. 

For 3-4 (maybe not the further end of 4 which becomes more subtle), the body sensations are very distinct from 1-2. More stable, less energetic. Comfortable, like a spa trip (or so I imagine if I had ever been to a spa in my life). Awareness and attention are totally different; I don't normally walk around being aware of most of my body. In these states I am; it is just a difference of how high-resolution or filled in that space is.

"Can you use intent to determine which of the four states to enter, or do you have to enter them sequentially?"

I think at the moment it tends to be very sequential. About 1.5 years ago I realized that my intention to will certain experiences/sensations into happening was a huge problem (i.e. created lots of craving and tension). It is worth noting that in retrospect, I was trying to recreate specific sensations in specific places. I suspect what you are hinting at is different from that. My correction to that earlier issue was to only intend a few basic processes at the start and then try not to control or desire any particular sensation into being. This pattern I described is the result of applying some basic rules via intention (particularly at the start of each session when I verbalize the instructions once); as opposed to intending to recreate the states themselves.

For example:
- Estabish a good mood mentally
- Attend whatever bodily sensations come up as a result of that
- Relax contraction/tension/train-of-thought is it is noticed

"If you can, try to remain in one of them and see if you can deepen it. What happens?"

How does one do that? I imagine it might happen by controlling either that attentional shape/size (i.e. keep it small to stay in lower jhana/state)? The ony state where this doesn't seem workable is the 3rd state during the oscilation phase. There's nobody in the drivers seat there, attempts to stabalize or avoid phasing out into contraction/dreaming fails but magically it oscilates back to awareness, wakefulness, and expansiveness.

"What is the triggering experience that causes you to slide into these states?"

If I had to guess... it really comes down to relaxation; both mental and physical. Physical tension melting away along with the visual and feeling spaces expanding from a percieved contracted state. I'm not sure though. However... the 4th state has this paradoxical thing where it feels quite energetic despite the peacefulness. Maybe just be a side affect of giving my brain a break after 4-6 hours of intense usage at work as opposed to an inherent quaity of that state?
 

My experience of the jhanas is that there is an object that gets focus. In my case, that object is the feeling of bliss/energy at the base of my spine. I learned to deepen jhanas by allowing soft, concentrated attention to rest on that object. This required a little practice. Try it, and see what happens.

Also, to my question about the transition between these states - the mind, at least for me, tends to tire of a concentration state (unless it's a deepening one), so that's what seems to lead to the next state. The successive, automatic transition between these states is sometimes referred to as the "jhanic arc."  I can incline toward the succeeding jhana, and the transition will almost always occur. It's a bit like reaching "up" and "pulling" a mental switch to make it happen. All of these intent-like things I'm referring to are very subtle. If I do any mental activity that's too gross in nature the jhana game is up. A lot of my practice starting after third path consisted riding the janic arc up and down.

Last thing - your mention of a feeling of infinite space reminds me of the fifth jhana.

Here's a list of the names for the first eight jhanas:

1. Delightful Sensations
2. Joy
3. Contentment
4. Utter peacefulness
5. Infinite space
6. Infinite consciousness
7. No-thingness
8. Neither perception nor non-perception

 "In my case, that object is the feeling of bliss/energy at the base of my spine. I learned to deepen jhanas by allowing soft, concentrated attention to rest on that object. This required a little practice. Try it, and see what happens."

This tracks with what I do mechanically too. I think a key difference for me is that I don't always have a clear meditation object in the body each formal session of practice. Sometimes it is the heart, throat, mouth, top of the head, and now recently abdomen where the bliss/energy shows up (at least during the start of formal practice). I have not figured out the causes and conditions of why it moves around so much. However, if it does show up stably, I would say the meditation tends to go into deeper stages more easily. Exactly as you say, use that bliss/energy sensation as the object of attention. 

"Also, to my question about the transition between these states - the mind, at least for me, tends to tire of a concentration state (unless it's a deepening one), so that's what seems to lead to the next state. The successive, automatic transition between these states is sometimes referred to as the "jhanic arc."  I can incline toward the succeeding jhana, and the transition will almost always occur. It's a bit like reaching "up" and "pulling" a mental switch to make it happen. All of these inrent-like things I'm referring to are very subtle. If I so any mental activity that's too gross in nature the jhana game is up. A lot of my practice starting after third path consisted riding the janic arc up and down."

Thank you for sharing these descriptions; I find that very helpful. A few things jumped out from thinking about this:
There's definitely a clear thing where attention just stops wanting to concentrate and do it's spotlight thing on the bliss/energy/comfort/etc. I would definitely call that a repeatable phenomena but I don't always go "deep" enough to experience it. 

Also, it does feel like an arc that has patterns to it and my mind is slowly learning the patterns. It seems like the key to enter the lighter two states are pretty repeatable but the third and fourth states (whether using my model or my half baked understand of Jhanas 1-4) have been pretty... unclear in that way.  

"Last thing - your mention of a feeling of infinite space reminds me of the fifth jhana."

Just to clarify here, I have not actually had a feeling of infinite space during formal practice (at least as of writing this). Closest thing would be the boundaries/shape of the body just dissolving into some space... though the space did not have an infinite quality in my estimation. I tend to take things hyper literally though... 

Thanks again; very helpful.
 

 A lot of usefull stuff has been said here already, but specifically to your question about those stages 3 and 4,

the overall developmental arc of attention seems to be that after the center of attention has developed (for the time being), the construction site then moves to the periphery of attention.

BUT -  during that phase, the center of attention is not sharp, not in focus, it glitches out, and forcing center point attention won't work - since the developmental process is going on somewhere else, namely the periphery. But, and this seems to be left out of a lot of elaborations on attention development, the peripheral aspect of attention is something that now needs to/wants to (or can) be TRAINED/cultivated.

Long story short, untrained peripheral attention zones out, goes in and out of hypnagogia, etc. This will change once you actively try to develop those aspects of attention  - in accordance with the requirements for that territory.

Compared to the bright, clear, flashy, straight forward, special effects kind of center point focus you get once that is gaining some momentum, this stage is subtler, because now it's about those peripheral details, wich can be brought up in clarity (or clarity of their fuzziness) through training, but of course they're just NOT where the center focus is. You can learn not to go into hypnagogic somethingorothers in that stage, but it will often happen in training to cultivate that aspect of attention. 

As with this whole path, it's about balancing effort and surrender, and a lot of people will argue for not emphasizing training to prevent some overachiever mindset. See what attitude works for you. You can absolutely train attention and not have it be a forced torturous, goal oriented hellscape (as that is generally quite counterproductive, especially for concentration) and just apply useful doses of effort and surrender as needed. Loosing balance is what teaches you better balance if you are patient enough and can work with feedback and exchange engineering and gardener mindsets as seems appropriate. Not everyone can, wich is fine, but that's where all those "don't bother about jhana standards, access concentration definitions, stages of the path and stages of attainments" voices come from. So you can just ride the arc of the jhanic somethingorothers in whatever way it unfolds, or you can actively train aspects of it, or alternate such phases. 

Daniel Ingram answers a question to that "stage 3 and 4" effect on a podcast and I still think it's one of the most useful things for people in that general area of development to listen to, preferably several times:

TM162 06 06 2021 Daniel Ingram

Go to 16:50min and listen to what Ingram explains in response to the question. 
 

 Thanks pixelcloud.

"Long story short, untrained peripheral attention zones out, goes in and out of hypnagogia, etc."

If I had to guess, that is the oscilatory phase for me right now. At first I thought I was just falling asleep sort of or just mistaking it for mundane distraction (although I do still think there might be some relationship here with light levels of sleep). But I have been getting there more frequently lately and it feels qualitatively quite different from just getting distracted and contracted around a train of thought say in pre-1st state or 1st state. It feels different from sleep in that I don't typically oscillate back into a wide and awake state rapidly from a light sleep state.

"You can learn not to go into hypnagogic somethingorothers in that stage, but it will often happen in training to cultivate that aspect of attention. "

I wonder if the oscillation thing is an oscillation between different states or something going on within that same state/jhana. Hopefully that will become clear with more practice. 

"As with this whole path, it's about balancing effort and surrender, and a lot of people will argue for not emphasizing training to prevent some overachiever mindset...."

I totally see both sides of this coin. I went into my "Jhana Practice" 1-2 years ago with a goal oriented mind set to get/attain deeper Jhanas. I tried way too hard and naturally it failed really hard, so I swung in the other direction of "fuck classifying anything, fuck models, fuck other people's descriptions, just sit, don't get lost in distraction, and see where it goes" attitude. That was super useful for a time time, until I started getting weird physical convulsions in my spine, eye movements, and crazy energetic stuff. After a couple months of that I had to finally dial back the "fuck everything, just sit" and ask for some help. I was also able to employ some ideas from Daniel and Adi Vader on having an imbalanced attention which solved those issues in a week. 

"Loosing balance is what teaches you better balance if you are patient enough and can work with feedback and exchange engineering and gardener mindsets as seems appropriate."

Yes. It seems as though it can take time to realize that one is imbalanced or in new/repeatable territory. I am almost certain I will make similar mistakes and over-corrections in the future but I am thankful to be able to keep practicing. 

I'll give that a listen. Thank you for the specific info on state 3 and 4 as well.

At the risk of making past mistakes, now that I am starting to get there more regularly, I think it makes sense to be a little bit more deliberate about such phases while keeping in my that not being too deliberate is an important factor of getting there for me (at least currently).
 

This isn't uncommon, but as an excuse, the language we Westerners tend to use, such as "concentration," can mislead folks into thinking that jhana comes from a one-pointed, intense, laser beam-focused, and headache-inducing effort. Not so!

​​​​​​​

I edited this out of my previous post but yeah.... I was definitely following a tradition/teaching/teacher at the time which was gassing me up on how easy, safe, and quickly I would flow through the Jhanas if I followed their system. I won't name it to avoid derailing this thread but in retrospect, I think there was a little... or a lot too much emphasis on that. 


 

 I like Daniel Ingram's analogy of becoming a sherpa. Over time, you get to know the mountain in all seasons, all weathers, traversing it during hailstorms (or maybe learning to stay in your hut on those days), sizzle, snow, and in perfect weather and amazing views and everything in between. Some stuff about it can be taught, but most of it is just doing it yourself, day in and day out, just learning from being on the mountain a lot. No other way to understand what the other sherpas are talking about. 

I thought I knew something about shamatha and it recently got into my head to try to attain Pa Auk/Ajahn Brahm level absorption. I'm making progress, time will tell how much, but I don't think I could have done so a year ago, certainly not two or three years ago. And the funny thing is that before I just would not have heeded or seen as relevant or been as careful in regard to all the details and nuances in all the endless advice on relaxing, positively reinforcing, working with craving and aversion, vitakka and vicara, and being even more patient and even more kind in training. Even though I would have told you that that was the heart of concentration practices all along. So I feel like I'm learning the same lessons, yet again, for the umpteenth time, with new ears, yet again, as there are nuances to it that I just didn't have the mind or chops or whatever you wanna call it the last time around.
Same mountain. Still more sherpa-ing to learn. More daily weather to deal with, more seasons to adapt to. Same old, all new. 

Even if the technical standards he's talking about in his book on jhana might not be relevant for you right now (certainly never were for me), if you wanna, listen to some of Ajahn Brahm's talks about jhana, nimitta, and the beautiful breath on youtube. Just to soak in the attitude of relaxed cultivation a bit. And that's a dude with one of the highest standards of concentration around. 

Ex-Frank Zappa drummer Chad Wackerman recently was a guest on the Drumeo youtube channel and people commented on how effortless his jawdropping playing is. He went through a school of drumming that forbade strain and heavily emphasized progress to more difficult exercises only when relaxed AND exact playing was achieved. Balancing effort and surrender, yet again. Not the only way to go in jhana, you can just ride the arc till something compells you to do otherwise, but still, that idea of balance can be useful if you carry it in a pocket somewhere to use when needed. 
 

Its all "smoke" but that comes later, I guess.

Its always good to have a structured, consistent daily practice. heroic or non-heroic will intermingle over time. But consistency and structure is the main thing/s. imho

​​​​​​​Absolutely. The one thing I would add is that when you're starting to get the hang of the jhanas, riding the arc is good practice that can help you gain access to additional jhanas, both within the first eight but also beyond, into Pure Land jhana territory.

Oh yeah. And while we're adding things, dunno if it has been mentioned above, but once there is a reasonably clear sequence of states, it can be helpful and super fun to try to go back and forth betwen them to get to know them better. To know, say, j2 both entering it from j1 and from j3 is to know j2 better. I think Brasington mentions that in his book. Once I had a sequence of 4 states, I just played around for a while, wide eyed kid in a toystore, just tried stuff and went with what worked that day. I mean, how fricken awesome is it that jhanic attention has these different shapes it can go back and forth between? Also, ahem.. piti? And j4 equanimity/panoramicity? Are you kidding me? Let's tinker with this! Up and down the sequence, jumping around out of order, or trying to get the flavor of one of them out of thin air driving on the tram. I thought it was important to (also) practise them more like a musical instrument, learning to PLAY and really enjoy them rather than getting uptight and super in awe about them, so they would become friends rather than lofty peaks to effort my ass up, so to speak. Play is emphasized a lot in motor learning, as is targeting a skill with different related tasks (Like trying to access a j2 flavor coming from j1, j3 and from thin air while sitting on the tram) instead of doing the same kind of reps all the time. 

But Kenneth Folk also has a point where he says "The most natural way to access the jhanas is to notice them arise in sequence during a sit." 

And speaking of KF:

"(...) cultivate concentration (the ability to sustain attention on an object with minimal distraction) a little bit at a time, in the same way that you would build a muscle by exercising it. As the concentration muscle gets stronger, you’ll be able to sustain it for ever longer periods of time. Since the developmental process of awakening is dynamic, it’s unavoidable that you will have to relearn concentration skills at various times along the way; every time your perceptual threshold changes, you gain the ability to notice phenomena you couldn’t see before. This is a double-edged sword; life is richer and more interesting, but there is also more potential for distraction. This potential for distraction has to be balanced by corresponding increases in your skill at concentration, which set the stage for yet another change in perceptual threshold, and so on. Think of it as an ongoing process rather than a discreet goal with a fixed end point, and be prepared to keep pushing this edge of development throughout your life." 

 - Kenneth Folk, Contemplative Fitness

Kenneth Folk was my teacher as I was developing access to the jhanas. And, indeed, he warned me that progress would inevitably mean relearning things I used to  be able to do. He's also the person who convinced me, at a specific point in my practice, to stop doing an investigation of objects and focus instead on jhana practice. 

What's cool about this is to have received these instructions way back when, before he ever thought of writing a book. A book he never finished, a la classic Kenneth Folk.

 I watched the segment of Daniel discussing Jhana 3 and the transition from 2-3; felt like it hit on quite a lot of relevant points. Good stuff to practice with.

If you all will permit me one more thing from your perspectives, I'd love to hear it: What is going on with attention (the spotlight thing in Jhana 1/State 1) from one state to another? From my current perspective, it starts out in state/jhana 1 like a spotlight around 6-8" if I am doing body scanning or something where there is a sense of space/shape/volume for it. It typically grows to about 1-2' (1/3rd to 2/3 of a meter say) for a while. That is usually when the sensations are really clear and significantly less distraction occurs. Also, like Daniel said, sensations present themselves here; that really clicked.

Here's where it doesn't seem clear yet. Once the oscillation starts with phasing out and phasing back in, say somewhere knocking on Jhana 3 or in it, suddenly attention encompasses the whole body or most of it; particularly in the phased in side of that oscillation. So before, I thought that there was attention (the spotlight thingy) and awareness (sort of the background thing that attention moves around within). For me, States/Jhanas 1 and 2 reinforce that dualistic perception whether or not it is accurate. But in 3, I suddenly do not know what the difference is. Did attention grow to the point that it overlaps awareness? Do they meld together? Are they not actually mechanically different processes/aspects from the start? 

Worth mentioning that I recognize that answers to these questions and cramming my brain with more info/models isn't the key to emptiness/nibbana. It is just really interesting and fun to hear other people's models and descriptions of Jhanas and aspects of the mind; sometimes quite useful too.  

One way to cram your head with more models is 

J1 Center of attention with effort
J2 Center of attention effortless
J3 Periphery of attention ("awareness"), center out of phase
J4 Center and periphery integrated, an attentional mode that has the horsepower to be panoramic and simulteaneously clear and detailed. 



Vipassana jhana theory posits that vipassana goes through a similar progression in each cycle (until you progress and things get increasingly fractal and such models aren't that helpful for practice anymore):

Progress of insight stages 1-3 is a center focus with effort thing, 

Stage 4 is center of attention effortless, where all the flashy energy stuff happens (the A&P)

The dukkha nanas/dark night (stages 5 - 10) are where center of attention is out of phase and periphery comes online (also the stages where the observer side gets destabilized)

Stage 11, Equanimity is where attention can now be both broad and inclusive, potentially being able to take the whole perceptual field as object for one crucial moment.

Knowing a bit of vipassana jhana theory can be helpful when you first go through that territory, as, for example, it's not the best of ideas to force center point clarity while in the dark night stages (or in J3) or go for center point vipassana while in EQ. 

All of this is in great detail in MCTB2. There is a lot of good advice on how to navigate those stages in the book and in some other fine resources, like shargrolpostcompilation.blogspot.com

 If your practice is exploring and letting things progress naturally (which is an excellent practice) then you don't need to do anything beyond what you are doing. In fact, you might be well served by sometimes doing less. Once we decide where we are ("Ah, this is second jahna!") we may stop looking around with the same curiosity that we had before we located ourselves. 

Samatha/samadhi can be an exploration, from which we learn directly about the ways in which the mind works. Real exploration is done without a map. You might want to see what happens when you call the places that you go by your own names, without confining the nomenclature to eight terms. I've used names like Pool, Forest Clearing, Bright, Photos, Radio, etc. 

Samma samadhi can also be a technique. It can be a way of conditioning the mind as preparation for insight. In that case, there are clear benefits to taking a structured approach and setting clear standards for each state. But if this not what you are aiming for at the moment, I really wouldn't worry about what things are called. 

As a midway point between the two practices, you might consider setting aside a fixed amount of time for a specific insight practice after each samatha session. For example, you might want to try noting/noticing every sensation that arises for ten minutes, or you might spend five minutes trying to see if you can find anything that persists, or is satisfying, or is under your control. If you do something like this (but, importantly, the same thing every time) for several weeks, while varying the geography that you explore in samatha (whether you are calling the paces you go by numbered jhanas or anything else), you may notice that what you do in your samatha changes the quality of your insight in some way. Then again, it might not work that way. Either way on, you will know more about your mind.