I recently started reading Daniel Ingram's Mastering the Core Teachings of the Buddha, and have a question regarding insight vs concentration meditation, though admittedly I'm not very far. Concentration meditation is, of course, simply putting all your focus on a single object, such as the breath at a certain point. However, if I meditate using the noting technique of labeling everything that arises in my consciousness, does that also not lead to ultimate concentration on the objects that pass through my awareness? In other words, in a way, I'm concentrating my awareness, not a single object. I'm interested in what others have to say about this.

Although my concentration on a single object isn't too good, I find that I'm much more able to focus on the noting technique, or the observation of thoughts as they arise and pass away, as noted in the chapter on the Three Characteristics. Taking on my thoughts directly has always produced better results for me, for some reason. And by "better results", I mean staying in focus of the goal without getting sidetracked into stories without being aware of it. Concentrating on a single point is difficult, as I notice all sorts of distractions often, whether in the world around me, or very subtle bubbling of thoughts, or other mental movements.

Noting is a form of concentration practice. It's only when you explicitly bring the 3 C's into it that it becomes insight. If you are getting clear, stable attention with noting, go for it.

Before starting the practice, I spent quite a few years trying to resolve my concentration issues, reading about ADHD, taking various medication, etc. It's only once on the path that I realized that I was doing it wrong. It wasn't a problem of concentration, it was a problem of attention. We get sidetracked because something arises in the mind without being seen and carry us away. Since I started to develop this moment to moment open-awareness to whatever arises in my experience and the courage to handle the constant discomfort we carry, staying on a task is much much easier.

I used to apply constant effort to concentrate. Now my effort is only directed at being aware. It also make life much simpler. It simplify the goal. The training of morality is an important part of all of this. You get to realize then you cannot be mindful and work in the opposite direction of "what feel the right thing to do". You develop the ability to see all fears and self-centered toughts arise in your mind in real time and not be controlled by them.

great answer!

What's the difference between attention and concentration?

Yeah. That's basically it. Concentration factors into choiceless noting in the sense that you can be (1) ardently and persistently noting the sensations, (2) noting in an absent-minded manner, or (3) not noting at all and falling off into fantasy. (1) is the most concentrated, (3) the least, and (2) in the middle. You'll find that your noting will fall closer to (1) as you approach the A&P and the 11th ñana, but in other spots there will be a greater tendency toward (2) and (3).



The main obstacle to what you're calling "concentration" here is the relative calmness (or lack thereof) of the mind. It's not so much the willing of the mind on to a single object. It's how much the mind is wound up. If you want to get good at concentration (samadhi), it's best to work on calming the mind (samatha).

That being said, you don't need a mountain of samadhi to get stream-entry (I assume that's what you're interested in). To get stream-entry, you have to get the mind really good at letting go of things. This is probably why noting is so useful for stream-entry. When you note a sensation, you put distance between your awareness and the object. It's like dropping it like a hot stone. If you do this in a comprehensive-enough way - applying it rigorously not just to the sensations of the breath or the things you notice in the body, but also to space, time, desire, attention, memory, and finally consciousness and awareness itself - you'll get the blip. Looked at that way, getting stream-entry isn't that hard. You just have to be persistent.

I've found that it's the territory above 2nd path that really requires the most samadhi and hence samatha. You're trying to get at much subtler stuff, so the mind has to get still. You can imagine the mind here vibrating and moving around so much, that it can't maneuver itself into small spaces. It has to calm down, become much more still, and then the subtler phenomena become conspicuous. This is seen clearly when you try to access the arupa jhanas. These states are subtle, and it takes a pretty still mind to be able to access them. If all you're doing is noting - no matter how persistently and continuously you can do that - you just won't be able to access those subtler states.

All that being said, bringing more samatha to the practice never hurts (so long as you're noting diligently). It makes going over the rough spots of the path (particularly 3rd ñana and ñanas 6-10) a lot nicer! To that end, there's a lot to be said for mixing samatha and insight and not separating them into two, distinct practices the way the Vissudhimagga recommends. But if I had to recommend just one practice to get you stream-entry, I'd say: just get really, really good at noting (which basically just means keep practicing it whenever you get a chance), and that should do it.

Just one yogi's two cents...

Thank you all for the helpful insights.



So are you saying that only at that point is it necessary to do the standard concentration practice of focusing on one object? I'm assuming by then it would be easier to do so due to all the practice one has had.

Daniel Ingram wrote in his book that in order to make any progress in insight, you need to be able to enter the first jhana, by having your attention fixed one on object for a while. Apparently, if I understand him correctly, I'm stuck due to my situation. However, it seems from all your posts that noting, or simply noticing and separating myself from all physical or mental sensations, is good enough for a while, so I'll continue with that, as I seem to be having the most success with it.

Thank you.

Yes.



Just note your ass off. That should be sufficient.

yeah, that part of MCTB is very confusing to people: my fault

basically, 1. Mind and Body is the first jhana, just as the first samatha jhana is also the first jhana, as vipassana jhanas and samatha jhanas are both jhanas

so, note your ass off, and you will strengthen concentration. concentrate, and you will strengthen concentration. both strengthen concentration.