What's the big deal about meditation retreats?

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Joshua, the solitary, modified 11 Years ago at 10/31/12 11:45 AM
Created 11 Years ago at 10/31/12 11:44 AM

What's the big deal about meditation retreats?

Posts: 86 Join Date: 9/28/12 Recent Posts
I've often considered going on retreats of some kind, but I always end up feeling, what's the point (for me at least)? I'm well aware living with family can be a noisy business, but I have a study which is not usually intruded upon, and I can usually engage in uninterrupted practise for several hours whenever, so divides between work, play and practise are few. Unless one spent one's time in a very very very troublesome abode, isn't going on retreat an artificial divide between practise and regular life? I have spontaneously sat for many hours on benches throughout the county in meditation. I follow that one's growth may stagnate without a teacher..but it is down to ourselves to cultivate insight surely. Isn't one's meditation impotent if they need a silent retreat to do it?
It seems very aesthetically displeasing that one can only reach one's potential by going to various retreat centres.

joshua
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N A, modified 11 Years ago at 10/31/12 12:06 PM
Created 11 Years ago at 10/31/12 12:06 PM

RE: What's the big deal about meditation retreats?

Posts: 157 Join Date: 7/10/11 Recent Posts
Don't do them then, they're entirely optional.

On the other hand, note that the "artificial divide" you mention is in emulation of monkhood. Buddhism is certainly quite big on people becoming monks so you should figure out your position if you disagree with that.
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Andrew K, modified 11 Years ago at 10/31/12 6:03 PM
Created 11 Years ago at 10/31/12 6:03 PM

RE: What's the big deal about meditation retreats?

Posts: 52 Join Date: 2/27/12 Recent Posts
sure, it's an artificial divide. but it's a really good artificial divide which can be of enormous benefit. it's a place which has been designed with the powerful intent to aid people in progressing in meditation faster.

"shouldn't I be able to develop this insight within my daily life?"

you don't have to go on retreat, you can develop insight or get enlightened within daily life. a retreat centre is like a really powerful tool that people can use. a good centre is designed in really specific ways to allow people to meditate as effectively as possible. and i think that's what the big deal is - people can progress and learn things there they might never have done by just meditating by themselves at home. going on retreat is a big investment and often very difficult, it wouldn't have developed into such an important part of meditation culture if it weren't as useful as it is.
Be Free Now, modified 11 Years ago at 12/7/12 11:32 AM
Created 11 Years ago at 12/7/12 11:32 AM

RE: What's the big deal about meditation retreats?

Posts: 61 Join Date: 2/4/12 Recent Posts
How can you judge what the pros and cons of a retreat are if you've never been to one?

I can tell you from my own experience that retreat time is so precious and rare. If you have time, money, and health, retreat time will significantly accelerate any spiritual practice.

Solitude, the lack of outer distraction, presence of other mindful beings, teachers, dharma talks--all these are conducive conditions for wisdom to arise.

Sometimes, a person has to let go of some candy if he wants gold.

For me, I find it way more difficult to practice at home. The energy is just not the same.
Professional Idiot, modified 11 Years ago at 12/7/12 4:48 PM
Created 11 Years ago at 12/7/12 4:48 PM

RE: What's the big deal about meditation retreats?

Posts: 23 Join Date: 5/15/11 Recent Posts
The momentum you can generate on retreat is nothing short of incredible, in my experience.

Imagine tapping away at a dragon's egg with a toffee hammer, 60 minutes every day for a year. Sure you'll create a bunch of tiny cracks, chips and scratches on the surface, but dragon's eggs are thick and strong. Also, being magical things, they tend to heal slightly every night, so if you ever take a break from your daily tappings, or go on holiday for a week, some of your work will be undone.

Now take a bloomin' great sledge hammer and give it 10 mighty blows, one after the other. Chances are you'll annihilate that mo fo - BOOM!

PS No baby dragons were harmed in this analogy.
Professional Idiot, modified 11 Years ago at 12/7/12 5:14 PM
Created 11 Years ago at 12/7/12 5:14 PM

RE: What's the big deal about meditation retreats?

Posts: 23 Join Date: 5/15/11 Recent Posts
Mitsuaki David Chi:

Solitude, the lack of outer distraction, presence of other mindful beings, teachers, dharma talks--all these are conducive conditions for wisdom to arise.


As mentioned above, these factors are most conducive for rapid progress. One point has been missed out though. I have no doubt that the eating schedule (and menu) has a massive impact also. You're essentially intermittently fasting each day (usually you'll eat nothing after lunch, or only a couple of pieces of fruit), which greatly improves energy and concentration, and reduces torpor/sloth.

For the last 3 months, after watching this, I have been doing the 5:2 diet. Immediately, I noticed a significant reduction in torpor/sloth.
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Joshua, the solitary, modified 11 Years ago at 12/7/12 9:12 PM
Created 11 Years ago at 12/7/12 9:12 PM

RE: What's the big deal about meditation retreats?

Posts: 86 Join Date: 9/28/12 Recent Posts
Mitsuaki David Chi:
Sometimes, a person has to let go of some candy if he wants gold.

For me, I find it way more difficult to practice at home. The energy is just not the same.


The candy is meditating in a place labelled home, and the gold is meditating in a place labelled retreat centre? You talk about the energy not being the same. But, for example, couldn't one just investigate one's whole deal with their environment for meditation as a subject of vipassana. Or, if one is in jhana, how can there possibly be a difference in the practise? Unless you have kids hanging from your neck and your wife hitting the back of your head with a pan repeatedly, why go to a retreat center? You're paying people for a room when you already pay for a house!

Earlier in the thread I was questioned if I was even for buddhist practises in general, since this was an emulation of sangha. But as far as that's concerned, that's just it, it's an emulation. I thought he whole point of monasteries is that you're either in or you're out, and there are many good reasons why that is so. Working in the world like a dog for months, effectively forgetting the big picture, and then just taking a solid few weeks to practise just seems unintegrated. Of course, all this isn't about enlightenment or effective technique, it's about the whole thing, the world.

I mean, I certainly don't mind of course if people go to retreats or not, I can see their uses to an extent. But it has been said for hundreds of years by many meditators, "if you cant meditate in the marketplace, then it's not meditation", or the like.
I only mention this in the first place because Daniel Ingram's writings, among others on this website, is first rate and as insightful as reading something can be. But in the middle of this golden palace of actual practise hints, there is a dodgy scaffolding area.

It doesn't matter really, this is one of those 'morality' training things, and one is never going to convince another in either direction by talking about it.

Joshua
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Nikolai , modified 11 Years ago at 12/7/12 9:22 PM
Created 11 Years ago at 12/7/12 9:22 PM

RE: What's the big deal about meditation retreats?

Posts: 1677 Join Date: 1/23/10 Recent Posts
It depends on your own conditioning and habitual tendencies. Can you maintain a momentum needed to get to escape velocity? If not during daily life, then a retreat may get one into 5th gear. Otherwise, it may be subject to how you practice, which is subject to views, beliefs, habits that push and pull the mind here and there. Some may not have the same push and pull conditioning that others do, and may do well at home in their pijamas, and others will need the space a retreat creates to temper and avoid the habitual pitfalls one's personality may present outside of such a context. Momentum is key. Where one cultivates and maintains such a continuous uninterrupted momentum matters little if there is no interruption.

During daily life, is one able to maintain awareness of the entire field of experience without the mind getting pushed and pulled and diverted to creating gaps and more 'I' making deviations? If not, look for and set up the ideal conditions that will support this objective.

My 2 cents,

Nick
Be Free Now, modified 11 Years ago at 12/8/12 9:25 AM
Created 11 Years ago at 12/8/12 9:25 AM

RE: What's the big deal about meditation retreats?

Posts: 61 Join Date: 2/4/12 Recent Posts
Joshua Sw.:


The candy is meditating in a place labelled home, and the gold is meditating in a place labelled retreat centre?


In my experience, candy is being comfortable and gold is the fearlessness one develops from going beyond one's comfort zone.

Joshua Sw.:

You talk about the energy not being the same. But, for example, couldn't one just investigate one's whole deal with their environment for meditation as a subject of vipassana. Or, if one is in jhana, how can there possibly be a difference in the practise?


You can investigate in daily life, but as Nik says the momentum is usually not the same. There are bound to be more moments of unmindfulness.

Joshua Sw.:

Unless you have kids hanging from your neck and your wife hitting the back of your head with a pan repeatedly, why go to a retreat center? You're paying people for a room when you already pay for a house!


Not every retreat center charges. Check out dhamma.org. Monasteries in Burma will let you stay indefinitely given you have travel and legal documents all set up through the embassies.

Joshua Sw.:

Earlier in the thread I was questioned if I was even for buddhist practises in general, since this was an emulation of sangha. But as far as that's concerned, that's just it, it's an emulation. I thought he whole point of monasteries is that you're either in or you're out, and there are many good reasons why that is so. Working in the world like a dog for months, effectively forgetting the big picture, and then just taking a solid few weeks to practise just seems unintegrated. Of course, all this isn't about enlightenment or effective technique, it's about the whole thing, the world.


What is the world?

Why speculate on whether or not retreat time is beneficial or integrated or anything else? Why not go to a free 10-day retreat with Goenkaji. We usually don't take action that many other people find extremely beneficial because of fear. We're scared of the changes it may bring in ourselves and our lives. We are scared that everything we've ever believed and learned is actually not how things actually work. We are scared to lose our self-identity. We are scared of seeing truly what is in our hearts and minds. This is my experience.

Everytime I come back from retreat, I feel so much lighter and joyful and happy and peaceful. This affects everybody and everything around me. Just muster up some courage, create some time, and plunge into the extended, unbroken silence and solitude that retreat time provides. You'll NEVER regret retreat time.

Be Happy, my man!
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Jane Laurel Carrington, modified 11 Years ago at 12/8/12 12:37 PM
Created 11 Years ago at 12/8/12 12:37 PM

RE: What's the big deal about meditation retreats?

Posts: 196 Join Date: 12/29/10 Recent Posts
What he said. I cherish the time I've been on retreat. I'm not in a position to do any more in the near future, but I am sustained by what I have done. Having said that, I do not wish to encourage anyone to think retreats are absolutely necessary to good practice. If a retreat is not in your past or your immediate future, do not despair! You can still get all four paths.

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