secondary clinging/attachments - which skandhas ?

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Shashank Dixit, modified 11 Years ago at 11/7/12 9:41 PM
Created 11 Years ago at 11/7/12 9:41 PM

secondary clinging/attachments - which skandhas ?

Posts: 282 Join Date: 9/11/10 Recent Posts
Hi

It is clear as a day that ending of clinging to the 5 skandhas is the ending of "me" , yet a doubt arose
recently. The Buddha said that ultimately suffering arises when we identify/cling to one of the
skandhas that makes up our existance. Yet , I wonder how are secondary clinging
(such as job , people , house , car etc) to be seen in terms of skandhas ?
..we do cling to these as well , yet it is secondary-clinging..meaning, they are not our direct
personality aggregates , yet we suffer by clinging to them..

For instance , a job is not any skandha , yet we cling to it and suffer if we loose it.

It is easy to see that we actually cling to vedana-skandha when we cling to people because we
cling to the vedana a person arouses in us.
Is this the correct way of seeing a secondary-clinging ?

Should we take secondary attachments like jobs etc as ones that support the primary attachments ( the skandhas )
and thus simply de-cling to them as they support clinging to skandhas or is there a more skillful way advised ?

I am interested in seeing
a skandha based sutta reference to this if possible..which specifically deals with secondary-clinging.

Thanks !
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Nikolai , modified 11 Years ago at 11/7/12 11:39 PM
Created 11 Years ago at 11/7/12 11:39 PM

RE: secondary clinging/attachments - which skandhas ?

Posts: 1677 Join Date: 1/23/10 Recent Posts
Shashank Dixit:
Hi

It is clear as a day that ending of clinging to the 5 skandhas is the ending of "me" , yet a doubt arose
recently. The Buddha said that ultimately suffering arises when we identify/cling to one of the
skandhas that makes up our existance. Yet , I wonder how are secondary clinging
(such as job , people , house , car etc) to be seen in terms of skandhas ?
..we do cling to these as well , yet it is secondary-clinging..meaning, they are not our direct
personality aggregates , yet we suffer by clinging to them..

For instance , a job is not any skandha , yet we cling to it and suffer if we loose it.

It is easy to see that we actually cling to vedana-skandha when we cling to people because we
cling to the vedana a person arouses in us.
Is this the correct way of seeing a secondary-clinging ?

Should we take secondary attachments like jobs etc as ones that support the primary attachments ( the skandhas )
and thus simply de-cling to them as they support clinging to skandhas or is there a more skillful way advised ?

I am interested in seeing
a skandha based sutta reference to this if possible..which specifically deals with secondary-clinging.

Thanks !


How does one perceive 'job', 'people', 'house'', 'car'?
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Shashank Dixit, modified 11 Years ago at 11/8/12 2:34 AM
Created 11 Years ago at 11/8/12 2:34 AM

RE: secondary clinging/attachments - which skandhas ?

Posts: 282 Join Date: 9/11/10 Recent Posts
Hmm , a job is not 'mine' , but when I cling to a job , then which of my own skandhas
I am clinging to ?

I am clinging to the vedana-skandha I get because of the job , because it makes me
'feel' safe
I am clinging to the kaya-skandha because the job helps feed the 'body'
Is this how I should treat it ? Thanks Nick.
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Nikolai , modified 11 Years ago at 11/8/12 3:06 AM
Created 11 Years ago at 11/8/12 3:05 AM

RE: secondary clinging/attachments - which skandhas ?

Posts: 1677 Join Date: 1/23/10 Recent Posts
Shashank Dixit:
Hmm , a job is not 'mine' , but when I cling to a job , then which of my own skandhas
I am clinging to ?

I am clinging to the vedana-skandha I get because of the job , because it makes me
'feel' safe
I am clinging to the kaya-skandha because the job helps feed the 'body'
Is this how I should treat it ? Thanks Nick.


Personal exploration and experimentation is your best bet. Which skhanda is attaching 'meaning to it all?

How does the mind create an 'object', suffuse it with 'meaning' and then react to it? Whether that 'object' be designated with the conceptual mental 'shape' and 'name' of 'job' or 'this person' or whatever?
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Shashank Dixit, modified 11 Years ago at 11/8/12 3:22 AM
Created 11 Years ago at 11/8/12 3:22 AM

RE: secondary clinging/attachments - which skandhas ?

Posts: 282 Join Date: 9/11/10 Recent Posts
How does the mind create an 'object', suffuse it with 'meaning' and then react to it? Whether that 'object' be designated with the conceptual mental 'shape' and 'name' of 'job' or 'this person' or whatever?


aah I see , can we take all such 'objects' of the mind as sankhar skandha while it manifests ?
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Nikolai , modified 11 Years ago at 11/8/12 5:18 AM
Created 11 Years ago at 11/8/12 5:08 AM

RE: secondary clinging/attachments - which skandhas ?

Posts: 1677 Join Date: 1/23/10 Recent Posts
Shashank Dixit:
How does the mind create an 'object', suffuse it with 'meaning' and then react to it? Whether that 'object' be designated with the conceptual mental 'shape' and 'name' of 'job' or 'this person' or whatever?


aah I see , can we take all such 'objects' of the mind as sankhar skandha while it manifests ?


Practice wise, I have found taking all mind-made objects, with mental 'shape' and 'name' as fabrications, to be quite progressive in my own experience. Explore it and see what you make of such a notion. I , for practice reasons, take the skandha of sankhara to be any 'mental urge' to act mentally, verbally and/or physically. In my current seeing, the creation of mental overlays/objects to then react towards with such urges are seemingly more due to sañña, perceiving/conceiving shape and name (from memory) to such 'objects', though the perceiving/conceiving/creating 'objects' seems to co-arise with an urge. Chicken egg, egg chicken.

My experience and explanation may change in future.
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Shashank Dixit, modified 11 Years ago at 11/8/12 5:43 AM
Created 11 Years ago at 11/8/12 5:43 AM

RE: secondary clinging/attachments - which skandhas ?

Posts: 282 Join Date: 9/11/10 Recent Posts
Thanks Nick..Your explanation does concur with my experience as well but a bit more experimentation
is required as of now.

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