RE: concentration, creativity and practice - Discussion
RE: concentration, creativity and practice
Sebastian P, modified 23 Days ago at 4/30/25 2:31 PM
Created 23 Days ago at 4/30/25 2:29 PM
concentration, creativity and practice
Post: 1 Join Date: 3/29/25 Recent Posts
hey guys,
(not sure this is the right place to post this, as i'm new to dho)
I have recently been exploring many different styles of mindfulness to stabilise my attention and realise my potential. I come from a background in nonduality and loved glimpses, but always felt my sensory clarity and ability to "abide" in such states was lacking. For reference, I have ADHD-primarily inattentive and this has caused a lot of struggle across the spectrum of tuning out to over-efforting, perfectionism and analysis paralysis. To contextualise it, before now I've not really had success holding a "normal" job down for more than a few months at a time or been able to finish creative projects. Although things seems to be going in a better direction now, I am still quite a scattered human.
Practices I've tried are TMI, Vipassana, Do Nothing, Self Enquiry (traditional and headless way/loch kelly) and I'm experimenting with noting currently.
Out of these the most obvious benefits on my practical life have been do nothing and noting. Self enquiry is transformative too, but totally dependent on how I am that day - I can't reliably get in a "headless" state yet.
Potentially useful context:A big tendency I've noticed is I like to switch between practices, the moment something of difficulty comes up. I might be noting and a tension will come up and if it persists I'll move to do nothing. I understand this may seem intuitive but the frequencies in which I do this is definitely counter intuitive. This has led me to try many things over the years- but also kept me imprisoned to my impulsivity.
The question: So a big part of my life is my creative ambition. I've had moderate success in my domain of music but I have definitely held myself back with my scattered, doubting tendencies. This often is in the form of being close to finishing something and stopping because of doubt or inattentiveness. It could just be one thought of "oh what will they think of that" etc. or "this sounds stupid".
It seems natruallly the best thing to do here is objectify and become aware of these tendencies as they show up during the creative process, but I'm not sure how to go about this.
I've been juggling between the aforementioned practices of noting/ do nothing or softening - but was wondering what might happen to my creativity if I just stick with one - I.e. noting. When I notice a distraction or uncomfortable feeling just noting it and returning to my task. Or even noting the flow of feelings and thoughts to help clarify my writing? (Focus in - Shinzen) or (Feel in)
I understand do nothing/softening technique are often encouraged but at times I feel too dispersed after such practices. I've for example recently tried Loch Kelly's effortless focus and flow which involves touching in panaromic awareness and focusing from this place. However, it felt might take some to perfect this.
I have been able to find very little on the internet about the interplay of noting techniques and creative application. So if anyone has experience with this it would be very informative for me, i.e book writing, song writing. I do realise however that fast noting types might interrupt such processes and not be ideal. If not, or if you've dealt with this same thing in any form of creativity; any ideas or suggestions would be great.
In the case someone asks, I go to therapy and I do emotion work to do with confidence and self belief. But this feels like a pattern of 'tuning out' and a scattered mental stream.
much love to all.
(not sure this is the right place to post this, as i'm new to dho)
I have recently been exploring many different styles of mindfulness to stabilise my attention and realise my potential. I come from a background in nonduality and loved glimpses, but always felt my sensory clarity and ability to "abide" in such states was lacking. For reference, I have ADHD-primarily inattentive and this has caused a lot of struggle across the spectrum of tuning out to over-efforting, perfectionism and analysis paralysis. To contextualise it, before now I've not really had success holding a "normal" job down for more than a few months at a time or been able to finish creative projects. Although things seems to be going in a better direction now, I am still quite a scattered human.
Practices I've tried are TMI, Vipassana, Do Nothing, Self Enquiry (traditional and headless way/loch kelly) and I'm experimenting with noting currently.
Out of these the most obvious benefits on my practical life have been do nothing and noting. Self enquiry is transformative too, but totally dependent on how I am that day - I can't reliably get in a "headless" state yet.
Potentially useful context:A big tendency I've noticed is I like to switch between practices, the moment something of difficulty comes up. I might be noting and a tension will come up and if it persists I'll move to do nothing. I understand this may seem intuitive but the frequencies in which I do this is definitely counter intuitive. This has led me to try many things over the years- but also kept me imprisoned to my impulsivity.
The question: So a big part of my life is my creative ambition. I've had moderate success in my domain of music but I have definitely held myself back with my scattered, doubting tendencies. This often is in the form of being close to finishing something and stopping because of doubt or inattentiveness. It could just be one thought of "oh what will they think of that" etc. or "this sounds stupid".
It seems natruallly the best thing to do here is objectify and become aware of these tendencies as they show up during the creative process, but I'm not sure how to go about this.
I've been juggling between the aforementioned practices of noting/ do nothing or softening - but was wondering what might happen to my creativity if I just stick with one - I.e. noting. When I notice a distraction or uncomfortable feeling just noting it and returning to my task. Or even noting the flow of feelings and thoughts to help clarify my writing? (Focus in - Shinzen) or (Feel in)
I understand do nothing/softening technique are often encouraged but at times I feel too dispersed after such practices. I've for example recently tried Loch Kelly's effortless focus and flow which involves touching in panaromic awareness and focusing from this place. However, it felt might take some to perfect this.
I have been able to find very little on the internet about the interplay of noting techniques and creative application. So if anyone has experience with this it would be very informative for me, i.e book writing, song writing. I do realise however that fast noting types might interrupt such processes and not be ideal. If not, or if you've dealt with this same thing in any form of creativity; any ideas or suggestions would be great.
In the case someone asks, I go to therapy and I do emotion work to do with confidence and self belief. But this feels like a pattern of 'tuning out' and a scattered mental stream.
much love to all.
Misha -, modified 23 Days ago at 4/30/25 4:41 PM
Created 23 Days ago at 4/30/25 4:41 PM
RE: concentration, creativity and practice
Posts: 14 Join Date: 3/31/25 Recent Posts
well, alright... adhd tends to be high energy with low concentration, which can often stem from a long-term pattern of high interest/desire over a short period of time. in other words, a strong desire for novelty, new experiences. that's very common in people who are diagnosed with adhd.
you do - seem scattered - very much so. lol. and you seem to be working primarily in the conceptual realm, while you are trying to go down to the world of phenomena and perception. but you have a very strong clinging to your concepts, your ideas of "creativity", what is or is not creativity, like your music, and so on.
i would suggest you to do 3 practices, in a specific order.
1 - emotional concentration. this could be like writing sentences or affirmations. "i am grateful for having a house", if you have a house and are grateful for that. lol. it could also be something about your hobbies like "i love music". pay attention to things that matter to you. and make it a habitual practice. something you do every day. and make that your priority. to do it every day at a specific time, if you can, and if you can't, then think about how you could do it, or stop thinking if you think too much. you can also make use of the three times. something good about the past, like an experience that you enjoyed, or something that is good right now (today some girls were interested in me. lol) or something good about the future, maybe something you want to have, and write something nice about it.
2 - sense awareness/concentration. learn to sense. that's it. learn to listen. learn to see. learn to feel. learn to move (using your muscles). there's different stages to it. you can know something. then you can know that you know something. and you can know that also. how can you know that you know that you know something? that is the magic question. isn't that wonderful? figure out how to know that you see. right now, what do you see? if you can describe it, that's a good suggestion that you know that you see something. can you hear something? noting or describing works because you are primarily working with the "conceptual mind". and that way you can build a connection between the awareness of concepts and tiny perception. intelligence is the "fifth force" that bridges the small and the large, like abstract and concrete things. small and large. lol
3 - body awareness / calming the body. start with your breath. that's the most important part. i don't know why. that's what the people say. lol. sometimes it can be difficult to know that you are breathing. if you are not used to listening to your body, which is kind of strange or funny, because that's what the mind was evolutionarily developed for, without necessarily having the intention to develop for it. to learn sensing your breath or your body, you can learn to know indirectly before learning to know directly. for example, place your hand on your tummy or stomach, not sure what the more appropriate word is. lol. what's the outer thing, with the skin? does stomach always refer to the internal thing or can it also refer to the external body, with the skin? if you know, please tell me, i don't feel like using the internet for that right now. lol. i am writing!
if you play around with number 3, you might even experience the fifth jhana, which is a really cool state, but i am not always able to reach it by intention, because i am doing other stuff, and i have to get lucky every now and then if i want it (by preparing my self for coincidences lol)
for three, as soon as you experience the knowing of your breath movements, you can keep your attention on your breath. that will do it. if you have a dissolving concentration like i do sometimes, then the knowing of your breath might disappear sometimes and you can move to somewhere else. if you are in the mood to calm your body, you can move your attention to somewhere else, like your left hand, for example. as soon as that disappears too, you can move away to your right hand, and continue until your breath appears again, and then move to your breath. that way you are gradually building consistent and stable prioritizing concentration. if you are in the mood for something more energetic, you can practice high-energy vipassana. it's very similar, except that you'd practice "noting" your experiences. what is that "noting"? it's the process of "reversing" the process of the brain. your brain naturally integrates your experiences into one coherent thing, which reminds me of quantum entanglement for some strange reason. so, you see everything as one whole, unless you're an extremely scattered individual. at the very least, you might experience knowing sound and vision simultaneously, which is like a basic minimum for most people's lives. so, how does the disintegration process work? you concentrate on one experience, and then concentrate on another. a bit like anchoring your attention somewhere. perhaps you hear this sound that appears to be consistent for 10 seconds. then you anchor your attention on that sound, move away, to your breath, for example, back to the sound, back to breath, and then you can do it a few times and finally keep your attention on your breath, if you are using your breath as the point of concentration. vipassana can act like reversing the process concentration, so don't over-do it. prioritize concentration, and then comes vipassana. of course you can practice both simultaneously, but even then concentration is a priority. otherwise your practice will break and so will your life. lol
the way "do nothing" or shikantaza is perceived is usually wrong too, because "doing nothing" is not about doing nothing. "doing nothing" is about being whole. how does that work? well, it could be relaxing. at night, when you are sleeping, it appears to me that you are deeply relaxed, but also that you are relaxed in thought. you are isolated from the most-stable world and not perceiving it consciously. the "do nothing" is rather the goal of not having a goal, other than just perceiving what you perceive. most people don't have goals because they like having goals, but because they hate the present, and feel at pain with the way things are right now. when you hear, do you hear? lol. it doesn't really mean to have "no preference" either, because... i can see a murder happening without approving of it. i may feel angry upon seeing it, or i may not. that anger might fade rapidly, or it might fade as soon as i do something about it, or it might spread and infect the future. it could also spread and awaken past anger that had been suppressed or asleep for a long time. you can know things without giving them much value or priority. but you can also value things so little that you become mindless of them.
when you uncondition yourself (like sitting and "doing nothing" for 10 straight hours), you might experience energy bursts. why does that arise? what i think is that there's "dormant energy" in your brain. like a disconnected circuit or accumulator. as soon as you connect it by being aware of it, the energy can flow freely, you can react to it in the way you seem appropriate and you've expanded yourself.
you can view enlightenment as a process of expanding yourself. because... you are the world! lol
you do - seem scattered - very much so. lol. and you seem to be working primarily in the conceptual realm, while you are trying to go down to the world of phenomena and perception. but you have a very strong clinging to your concepts, your ideas of "creativity", what is or is not creativity, like your music, and so on.
i would suggest you to do 3 practices, in a specific order.
1 - emotional concentration. this could be like writing sentences or affirmations. "i am grateful for having a house", if you have a house and are grateful for that. lol. it could also be something about your hobbies like "i love music". pay attention to things that matter to you. and make it a habitual practice. something you do every day. and make that your priority. to do it every day at a specific time, if you can, and if you can't, then think about how you could do it, or stop thinking if you think too much. you can also make use of the three times. something good about the past, like an experience that you enjoyed, or something that is good right now (today some girls were interested in me. lol) or something good about the future, maybe something you want to have, and write something nice about it.
2 - sense awareness/concentration. learn to sense. that's it. learn to listen. learn to see. learn to feel. learn to move (using your muscles). there's different stages to it. you can know something. then you can know that you know something. and you can know that also. how can you know that you know that you know something? that is the magic question. isn't that wonderful? figure out how to know that you see. right now, what do you see? if you can describe it, that's a good suggestion that you know that you see something. can you hear something? noting or describing works because you are primarily working with the "conceptual mind". and that way you can build a connection between the awareness of concepts and tiny perception. intelligence is the "fifth force" that bridges the small and the large, like abstract and concrete things. small and large. lol
3 - body awareness / calming the body. start with your breath. that's the most important part. i don't know why. that's what the people say. lol. sometimes it can be difficult to know that you are breathing. if you are not used to listening to your body, which is kind of strange or funny, because that's what the mind was evolutionarily developed for, without necessarily having the intention to develop for it. to learn sensing your breath or your body, you can learn to know indirectly before learning to know directly. for example, place your hand on your tummy or stomach, not sure what the more appropriate word is. lol. what's the outer thing, with the skin? does stomach always refer to the internal thing or can it also refer to the external body, with the skin? if you know, please tell me, i don't feel like using the internet for that right now. lol. i am writing!
if you play around with number 3, you might even experience the fifth jhana, which is a really cool state, but i am not always able to reach it by intention, because i am doing other stuff, and i have to get lucky every now and then if i want it (by preparing my self for coincidences lol)
for three, as soon as you experience the knowing of your breath movements, you can keep your attention on your breath. that will do it. if you have a dissolving concentration like i do sometimes, then the knowing of your breath might disappear sometimes and you can move to somewhere else. if you are in the mood to calm your body, you can move your attention to somewhere else, like your left hand, for example. as soon as that disappears too, you can move away to your right hand, and continue until your breath appears again, and then move to your breath. that way you are gradually building consistent and stable prioritizing concentration. if you are in the mood for something more energetic, you can practice high-energy vipassana. it's very similar, except that you'd practice "noting" your experiences. what is that "noting"? it's the process of "reversing" the process of the brain. your brain naturally integrates your experiences into one coherent thing, which reminds me of quantum entanglement for some strange reason. so, you see everything as one whole, unless you're an extremely scattered individual. at the very least, you might experience knowing sound and vision simultaneously, which is like a basic minimum for most people's lives. so, how does the disintegration process work? you concentrate on one experience, and then concentrate on another. a bit like anchoring your attention somewhere. perhaps you hear this sound that appears to be consistent for 10 seconds. then you anchor your attention on that sound, move away, to your breath, for example, back to the sound, back to breath, and then you can do it a few times and finally keep your attention on your breath, if you are using your breath as the point of concentration. vipassana can act like reversing the process concentration, so don't over-do it. prioritize concentration, and then comes vipassana. of course you can practice both simultaneously, but even then concentration is a priority. otherwise your practice will break and so will your life. lol
the way "do nothing" or shikantaza is perceived is usually wrong too, because "doing nothing" is not about doing nothing. "doing nothing" is about being whole. how does that work? well, it could be relaxing. at night, when you are sleeping, it appears to me that you are deeply relaxed, but also that you are relaxed in thought. you are isolated from the most-stable world and not perceiving it consciously. the "do nothing" is rather the goal of not having a goal, other than just perceiving what you perceive. most people don't have goals because they like having goals, but because they hate the present, and feel at pain with the way things are right now. when you hear, do you hear? lol. it doesn't really mean to have "no preference" either, because... i can see a murder happening without approving of it. i may feel angry upon seeing it, or i may not. that anger might fade rapidly, or it might fade as soon as i do something about it, or it might spread and infect the future. it could also spread and awaken past anger that had been suppressed or asleep for a long time. you can know things without giving them much value or priority. but you can also value things so little that you become mindless of them.
when you uncondition yourself (like sitting and "doing nothing" for 10 straight hours), you might experience energy bursts. why does that arise? what i think is that there's "dormant energy" in your brain. like a disconnected circuit or accumulator. as soon as you connect it by being aware of it, the energy can flow freely, you can react to it in the way you seem appropriate and you've expanded yourself.
you can view enlightenment as a process of expanding yourself. because... you are the world! lol
John L, modified 23 Days ago at 4/30/25 5:46 PM
Created 23 Days ago at 4/30/25 5:26 PM
RE: concentration, creativity and practice
Posts: 157 Join Date: 3/26/24 Recent Posts
I'm not the creative type, but I reckon if these practices help with creativity, it's because they relax clinging in real time. But each practice comes at it from a different angle and with a different attitude. Noting tends to be energizing and more dualistic, at least at first, since you feel like you're applying the notes and manually deconstructing the clinging. Do Nothing feels more relaxing, and if done properly, less dualistic, because you're not scanning experience for clinging, you're just relaxing clinging as it's naturally noticed. Self-inquiry feels like you're deleting yourself; it's touching the void, collapsing the clinging in on itself.
Which one is best for creativity? I don't know. Each seems plausible. Maybe it depends on the person and you've got to experiment for yourself. Or maybe a straight-up concentration practice would help; I know TM is popular with artists.
Edit: It's important that you disidentify with he-who-switches-practices; if practice does not include the switcher/orchestrator/practitioner, it's gonna stall. Either stick to one practice, or if not, notice how the switching happens all by itself; it's not-self. Let attention move by itself, and then follow where it goes with your technique — either by noting what happens, repeatedly relaxing tension, inquiring, or just watching it. Also, welcome to the forum.
Edit: "Relaxing clinging" = "surrendering" = "not managing" = "letting go of attachments" = "agencyless non-controlling" = "wu wei" = "non-doing" = "all doing, no trying" = "enjoying". Perhaps the best guiding light for doing a task effectively is asking, "Am I enjoying this?" and "How could I enjoy this more?" Usually this involves letting go of some clinging, letting go of some control and some management. The guy who enjoys the work is gonna do better than the guy who doesn't.
Which one is best for creativity? I don't know. Each seems plausible. Maybe it depends on the person and you've got to experiment for yourself. Or maybe a straight-up concentration practice would help; I know TM is popular with artists.
Edit: It's important that you disidentify with he-who-switches-practices; if practice does not include the switcher/orchestrator/practitioner, it's gonna stall. Either stick to one practice, or if not, notice how the switching happens all by itself; it's not-self. Let attention move by itself, and then follow where it goes with your technique — either by noting what happens, repeatedly relaxing tension, inquiring, or just watching it. Also, welcome to the forum.

Edit: "Relaxing clinging" = "surrendering" = "not managing" = "letting go of attachments" = "agencyless non-controlling" = "wu wei" = "non-doing" = "all doing, no trying" = "enjoying". Perhaps the best guiding light for doing a task effectively is asking, "Am I enjoying this?" and "How could I enjoy this more?" Usually this involves letting go of some clinging, letting go of some control and some management. The guy who enjoys the work is gonna do better than the guy who doesn't.
brian patrick, modified 22 Days ago at 5/1/25 12:04 PM
Created 22 Days ago at 5/1/25 12:04 PM
RE: concentration, creativity and practice
Posts: 96 Join Date: 10/31/23 Recent Posts
Reading your post I get the idea that you’re looking to become “more creative” and what that looks like to me is what you mean is “more productive, creatively.” In that case I’d recommend A Year With Swollen Appendices by Brian Eno, and I believe he was a new one out he co-authored. I haven’t read it yet, but I probably will. Another good one is How Music Works by David Byrne. My experience with meditation and the path generally, as it’s affected my writing/music, is a mixed bag from the perspective of production. There is less and less impetus to do anything, even though the clarity about anything I might do seems much improved. In other words, I say what I mean more directly and clearly, and at the same time don’t feel the need or desire to often say it. So… mixed bag.
Many of the things I once thought profound or important, seem like nonsense, and a waste of time or energy. This can also be explained through the lens of growing as an artist, but there may come a time on the path when that drive to produce leaves. Not because you are lazy, or disorganized, but because you no longer see the point.
I think the seeking energy is good for production. Switching methods and systems can be a good catalyst to reignite the fire from time to time. Putting creative endeavors on the back burner for a while and getting a boring, physically demanding job, can also be useful, but the path in general may not ultimately help you be more productive, and might make you less so.
All that said, I have no complaints.
Many of the things I once thought profound or important, seem like nonsense, and a waste of time or energy. This can also be explained through the lens of growing as an artist, but there may come a time on the path when that drive to produce leaves. Not because you are lazy, or disorganized, but because you no longer see the point.
I think the seeking energy is good for production. Switching methods and systems can be a good catalyst to reignite the fire from time to time. Putting creative endeavors on the back burner for a while and getting a boring, physically demanding job, can also be useful, but the path in general may not ultimately help you be more productive, and might make you less so.
All that said, I have no complaints.
Hector L, modified 22 Days ago at 5/1/25 5:45 PM
Created 22 Days ago at 5/1/25 5:45 PM
RE: concentration, creativity and practice
Posts: 166 Join Date: 5/9/20 Recent Posts
I think creativity actually increases with some practices. The void is a great source of inspirational material.