I'm scared of Final Nirvana

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Blue ., modified 8 Years ago.

I'm scared of Final Nirvana

Posts: 267 Join Date: 7/14/11 Recent Posts
I'm scared of Final Nirvana. People rant and rave about how wonderful the universe is, when you connect with the one, when you give up all your ego.

But this is what scares me.

Someone made Samsara. That's f*cked up. Who would make this? It's a giant game if you think about. You get enough merit you get to be an angel, if you play your cards right blah blah. Who would make hell? What kind of person would do that? Have you read the descriptions of hell. I suggest you go do.

Whoever, made samsara is the same person who made final nirvana.

That scares me

the final place you will be for eternity. Wtf? Cause when you give up all ego... you can't do anything, you can't go anyway, you're pretty much at the whim of whatever it's gonna be

I am scared of eternal blackness, or nothingness.

I know that it is actually good, but I have this fear. I just can't believe hell. How could someone be so sadistic, why create this giant game.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure that the creator is us, me, the universal one.

I am just venting, no censoring at all

make me feel better


-d
C C C, modified 8 Years ago.

RE: I'm scared of Final Nirvana

Posts: 953 Join Date: 3/9/10 Recent Posts
quote: "the final place you will be for eternity. Wtf? Cause when you give up all ego... you can't do anything, you can't go anyway, you're pretty much at the whim of whatever it's gonna be

I am scared of eternal blackness, or nothingness".



If you're practising properly and you haven't at some point felt sheer terror of no-self, and then beat a hasty retreat to 'normality', you've wasted every second of your practice time.

May I suggest just practice letting go of ordinary everyday fears first. That way you start to get all sorts of good things coming your way and you can enjoy being an ego, instead of hating it.
Jigme Sengye, modified 8 Years ago.

RE: I'm scared of Final Nirvana

Posts: 189 Join Date: 8/22/09 Recent Posts
Blue .:


Someone made Samsara. That's f*cked up. Who would make this?


Oddly enough, you're making it right now. As am I. While the idea that you're the author of your own perceptions and therefore everything that's wrong with everything is simplistic and laughable, that's the theory and upon verification, seems to be as true as anything else. There's a song that says that money makes the world go around. I disagree, the world entirely runs on irony. It's more bearable to laugh about it than the alternative.
Jigme Sengye, modified 8 Years ago.

RE: I'm scared of Final Nirvana

Posts: 189 Join Date: 8/22/09 Recent Posts
Blue .:


I am scared of eternal blackness, or nothingness.


How do you know that's what will happen at the end of your practice? Honest question.
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Blue ., modified 8 Years ago.

RE: I'm scared of Final Nirvana

Posts: 267 Join Date: 7/14/11 Recent Posts
My logic and my fear was sound. I knew it was wrong, but you have to understand that even a 1% chance of infinite darkness is infinite.

The "one" creating it is not a metaphor. There is only one being. The universal one. (or atleast that is what everything post-4 path is pointing to)

Anyway, this was just a silly post that I made to vent.

It is for sure wrong, and the final stage is good.

Thanks for your responses, they did their job.
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Florian Weps, modified 8 Years ago.

RE: I'm scared of Final Nirvana

Posts: 1028 Join Date: 4/28/09 Recent Posts
Blue .:
Whoever, made samsara is the same person who made final nirvana.


Nirvana is when samsara stops, or ceases.

Samsara and the person who makes it and notions of nirvana and fear of cessation - that's all made (by the person making it). Nirvana is when that's not made.

When the old texts talk of the "unborn, uncreated... undying", the grammar is misleading. "The uncreated" looks like a noun, i.e. a thing that exists. But it's just the absence of created things. Absence is not some clever form of presence.

That scares me


Here, have a virtual hug, if you like. It's ok. I really mean this, it's not a phrase or joke.

I am just venting, no censoring at all


Vent as much as you need to. There's energy in anger, too, which can be harnessed.

Cheers,
Florian
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Blue ., modified 8 Years ago.

RE: I'm scared of Final Nirvana

Posts: 267 Join Date: 7/14/11 Recent Posts
How is it any more scary than going to sleep every night?


When you go to sleep you know you're gonna wake up... and most likely next to a cute girl emoticon


Here, have a virtual hug, if you like. It's ok. I really mean this, it's not a phrase or joke.


I know you're not joking. Respect.


and thanks for the rest of your guys' responses. consider it squashed!
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Nikolai ., modified 8 Years ago.

RE: I'm scared of Final Nirvana

Posts: 1648 Join Date: 1/23/10 Recent Posts
Blue .:
I'm scared of Final Nirvana. People rant and rave about how wonderful the universe is, when you connect with the one, when you give up all your ego.

But this is what scares me.

Someone made Samsara. That's f*cked up. Who would make this? It's a giant game if you think about. You get enough merit you get to be an angel, if you play your cards right blah blah. Who would make hell? What kind of person would do that? Have you read the descriptions of hell. I suggest you go do.

Whoever, made samsara is the same person who made final nirvana.

That scares me

the final place you will be for eternity. Wtf? Cause when you give up all ego... you can't do anything, you can't go anyway, you're pretty much at the whim of whatever it's gonna be

I am scared of eternal blackness, or nothingness.

I know that it is actually good, but I have this fear. I just can't believe hell. How could someone be so sadistic, why create this giant game.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure that the creator is us, me, the universal one.

I am just venting, no censoring at all

make me feel better


-d



What if there were 'no-one' experienced in that mind/body organism called Blue? As in no sense of tangible 'exisiting' or 'presence' or 'being' or 'becoming' or 'me-ness' in any shape or form or manifestation?

What would be scared of what non-existence?

There are practices talked of on this site and other sites that lead to a place like this, where there is only a void, and here I don't mean some fabricated jhana like mind state, but an absence of that which is 'scared', a sense of existing/presence/me-ness/being/continuous coming to be, and wanting to be for ever and a day. If so inclined, this whole compounding mess of desire for becoming can be seen to drop away with the right practices.

A literal interpretation of the following:

"Then, Bāhiya, you should train yourself thus: In reference to the seen, there will be only the seen. In reference to the heard, only the heard. In reference to the sensed, only the sensed. In reference to the cognized, only the cognized. That is how you should train yourself. When for you there will be only the seen in reference to the seen, only the heard in reference to the heard, only the sensed in reference to the sensed, only the cognized in reference to the cognized, then, Bāhiya, there is no you in connection with that. When there is no you in connection with that, there is no you there. When there is no you there, you are neither here nor yonder nor between the two. This, just this, is the end of stress."


Nick
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Shashank Dixit, modified 8 Years ago.

RE: I'm scared of Final Nirvana

Posts: 282 Join Date: 9/11/10 Recent Posts
I can relate to this but strangely , some times it goes along with sweetness and some times it
is accompanied by dread. I guess this is similar to what Richard or Vineeto calls the
'wall of fear'.
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N A, modified 8 Years ago.

RE: I'm scared of Final Nirvana

Posts: 157 Join Date: 7/10/11 Recent Posts
Whoa, if you are post 4th path and have that kind of concern, this whole meditation thing seems really underwhelming to be honest
Tom A Vitale, modified 8 Years ago.

RE: I'm scared of Final Nirvana

Posts: 466 Join Date: 9/19/09 Recent Posts
Here is an explanation:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hydDhUNvva8

EDIT: It's funny he thinks there is a flaw in the theory.

"An infinite sequence of infinities???" "Total nonsense." "This is a nightmare beyond comprehension." (No, samsara is a nightmare beyond comprehension).

Also, "cessation" is a mistranslation of Nirodha. Nirodha means Nir (without) rodha (confinement). "Cessation" is an incorrect term because it implies an inherently existing thing that ceases. Though nirodha is not "final nirvana" otherwise phenomena (formations, sankharas, sensations), would not subsequently re-arise at a "later time."

There is the natural state (no "else") and the un-natural one (nothing but "else" - "samsara").

I am scared of eternal blackness, or nothingness.


These are "things" that last only an instant like all other "things." "Things" are only afraid (a "thing") of other "things."

Alive means a-live (meaning not live).
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Simon T., modified 8 Years ago.

RE: I'm scared of Final Nirvana

Posts: 381 Join Date: 9/13/11 Recent Posts
How is it any more scary than going to sleep every night?
Adam . ., modified 8 Years ago.

RE: I'm scared of Final Nirvana

Posts: 613 Join Date: 3/20/12 Recent Posts
I'm pretty sure that as nirvana is talked about in the sutras, as long as we have any fear of it or desire for something else we won't have to worry about "going" "there".
Tom A Vitale, modified 8 Years ago.

RE: I'm scared of Final Nirvana

Posts: 466 Join Date: 9/19/09 Recent Posts
I'm pretty sure that as nirvana is talked about in the sutras, as long as we have any fear of it or desire for something else we won't have to worry about "going" "there".


This above statement is "correct."

The below statement is also "correct."

I'm pretty sure that as nirvana is talked about in the sutras, as long as we have any fear of it or desire for something else we won't will have to worry about "going" "there"
C C C, modified 8 Years ago.

RE: I'm scared of Final Nirvana

Posts: 953 Join Date: 3/9/10 Recent Posts
Simon T.:
How is it any more scary than going to sleep every night?


I believe the difference is that when most people fall asleep, they are not aware of the consciousness stopping. When I meditate enough, I can go into Witness mode and watch consciousness stopping. It's a very sudden *powering down* feeling, and it's so frightening, that it jolts me wide awake. Feels like death happening. Perhaps I'm not fully enough in the witness state to allow it to happen without that reaction. I've heard somewhere that with practice, eventually you are able to reside as the *Self fully awake* when the body goes to sleep at night. Can't remember where I read that. Castaneda maybe.

The bardo guys say that when actual bodily death approaches, most people fall into complete unawareness so as to avoid the terror of it. They have those exercises to help people stay aware during the transition to death.
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John P, modified 8 Years ago.

RE: I'm scared of Final Nirvana

Posts: 155 Join Date: 1/24/12 Recent Posts
C C C:
I believe the difference is that when most people fall asleep, they are not aware of the consciousness stopping. When I meditate enough, I can go into Witness mode and watch consciousness stopping. It's a very sudden *powering down* feeling, and it's so frightening, that it jolts me wide awake. Feels like death happening. Perhaps I'm not fully enough in the witness state to allow it to happen without that reaction. I've heard somewhere that with practice, eventually you are able to reside as the *Self fully awake* when the body goes to sleep at night. Can't remember where I read that. Castaneda maybe.

The bardo guys say that when actual bodily death approaches, most people fall into complete unawareness so as to avoid the terror of it. They have those exercises to help people stay aware during the transition to death.


In the lucid dreaming community, there is a technique called WILD (Wake-Induced Lucid Dream), in which your body goes to sleep while still being awake mentally. I wouldn't be surprised if someone here already experienced this while sitting in a cushion while completely relaxed, since sometimes some similar effects are mentioned here.
It's been a long while since I did some dreamwork, I stopped because it would disturb my sleep schedule and affect daytime, but once I was able to perform this technique partially(the first steps). Once I got into sleep paralysis, it was like I was in a space in which I could see with my own eyes everything I imagined, I could feel the frequency of my blood running through my veins and I was hearing dozens of random sounds (could be sounds from bugs outside, I don't know...). Unfortunately I wasn't able to enter the visualization I was creating (which kind of had some life of its own), and everything ended and I found myself in my bed awake.
An Eternal Now, modified 8 Years ago.

RE: I'm scared of Final Nirvana

Posts: 638 Join Date: 9/15/09 Recent Posts
I don't see how you can fear Final Nirvana when the notion of 'self/Self' is completely seen through.

There is no 'the final place YOU will be'. There isn't that 'you' to begin with in this very life.

There isn't 'universal one' either...
Robert McLune, modified 8 Years ago.

RE: I'm scared of Final Nirvana

Posts: 255 Join Date: 9/8/12 Recent Posts
An Eternal Now:
I don't see how you can fear Final Nirvana when the notion of 'self/Self' is completely seen through.

Because you only get to see through self on reaching Nirvana? Until then, even though you know you won't be afraid *then*, you can still be afraid *now*. The unenlightened person thinks about something to do with extinction or non-existence or whatever the unenlightened person typically thinks about in this context; their brain dumps a load of fear hormones; and they suffer. Seems perfectly normal to me. Isn't this exactly what the first noble truth would predict?
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fivebells ., modified 8 Years ago.

RE: I'm scared of Final Nirvana

Posts: 566 Join Date: 2/25/11 Recent Posts
I don't think this is even a 1st path view...
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Florian Weps, modified 8 Years ago.

RE: I'm scared of Final Nirvana

Posts: 1028 Join Date: 4/28/09 Recent Posts
fivebells .:
I don't think this is even a 1st path view...


To me, it read more like a gut-level dread rather than an intellectual posture, or view.

Why do you think it's a view? (Not defending or attacking - just genuinely interested)

Cheers,
Florian
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fivebells ., modified 8 Years ago.

RE: I'm scared of Final Nirvana

Posts: 566 Join Date: 2/25/11 Recent Posts
It's dread underpinned by a blatant self-view.
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Florian Weps, modified 8 Years ago.

RE: I'm scared of Final Nirvana

Posts: 1028 Join Date: 4/28/09 Recent Posts
fivebells .:
It's dread underpinned by a blatant self-view.


Could be, sure. This stuff is hard to tell from a few words in a forum post.

No more thoughts on this?

Cheers,
Florian
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fivebells ., modified 8 Years ago.

RE: I'm scared of Final Nirvana

Posts: 566 Join Date: 2/25/11 Recent Posts
You're kidding, right?

Blue .:
You get enough merit you get to be an angel, if you play your cards right blah blah.


Blue .:
Anyway, I'm pretty sure that the creator is us, me, the universal one.


Blue .:
make me feel better


Sound like a stream entrant to you? Let alone an arahant?

It occurred to me as I wrote this that the OP sounds like another member of this forum. I wonder whether this is a sock puppet account...
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James Yen, modified 8 Years ago.

RE: I'm scared of Final Nirvana

Posts: 270 Join Date: 9/6/09 Recent Posts
I'm not Blue.

Thank doe!
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fivebells ., modified 8 Years ago.

RE: I'm scared of Final Nirvana

Posts: 566 Join Date: 2/25/11 Recent Posts
Not that it matters much, but since you would say that in any case, it doesn't really help me resolve the question. emoticon
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Florian Weps, modified 8 Years ago.

RE: I'm scared of Final Nirvana

Posts: 1028 Join Date: 4/28/09 Recent Posts
fivebells .:
Sound like a stream entrant to you? Let alone an arahant?


Since you're asking:

I don't know that stream-treaders or arahants make noises distictive only to them. My mp3-player can sound like an arahant.

What's the sound of an arahant dying?

What's the sound of a psychopath who is utterly fearless?

Like I said, it's hard to tell the entire developmental history of someone from a few words on the screen. Much easier to spot gut-level misery expressed as it was happening. Feels better to me to respond to that. I'm not good at reading between the lines. I find it's like in dreams: every time I look, there's something else written there, usually what I was thinking of just then.

It occurred to me as I wrote this that the OP sounds like another member of this forum. I wonder whether this is a sock puppet account...


There's a thought, but I don't think so, since James isn't very good at trolling.

Cheers,
Florian
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fivebells ., modified 8 Years ago.

RE: I'm scared of Final Nirvana

Posts: 566 Join Date: 2/25/11 Recent Posts
Florian Weps:
I don't know that stream-treaders or arahants make noises distictive only to them.


Of course they don't but there are certain sounds they're unlikely to make.
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James Yen, modified 8 Years ago.

RE: I'm scared of Final Nirvana

Posts: 270 Join Date: 9/6/09 Recent Posts
Any fear of "final nirvana" results from an incorrect conception of nirvana anyways, which is the absence of something and not really a something anyways.

Besides, cessation, is the cessation of views, evil, suffering and volition.

Not the death of some "being".

Listen brother, relax.