Stop @ Stream Entry?

Robin Woods, modified 9 Years ago at 11/25/12 11:03 AM
Created 9 Years ago at 11/25/12 11:03 AM

Stop @ Stream Entry?

Posts: 189 Join Date: 5/28/12 Recent Posts
Is it possible to just stop with this at stream entry and rebuild a happier, normal life that doesn't involve asking lots of stupid questions on obscure internet forums - or does the itch just not go away until 4th path? Thanks!
Robert McLune, modified 9 Years ago at 11/25/12 12:30 PM
Created 9 Years ago at 11/25/12 12:30 PM

RE: Stop @ Stream Entry?

Posts: 255 Join Date: 9/8/12 Recent Posts
Robin Woods:
Is it possible to just stop with this at stream entry and rebuild a happier, normal life that doesn't involve asking lots of stupid questions on obscure internet forums - or does the itch just not go away until 4th path? Thanks!

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Nikolai , modified 9 Years ago at 11/25/12 2:21 PM
Created 9 Years ago at 11/25/12 1:51 PM

RE: Stop @ Stream Entry?

Posts: 1648 Join Date: 1/23/10 Recent Posts
Robin Woods:
Is it possible to just stop with this at stream entry and rebuild a happier, normal life that doesn't involve asking lots of stupid questions on obscure internet forums - or does the itch just not go away until 4th path? Thanks!


In my own experience, the itch was there till MCTB 4th. I "got off a certain ride" then and that incessant urge to seek and not "feel right" (insight disease as Daniel puts it) vanished. But you are your own master and subject to your own conditioning and tendencies. You therefore can decide whichever direction you wish to go. The "dark night' is only dark due to the mind's seemingly automatic and blind subjective reactions towards particular unpleasant phenomena/objects of mind arising in the mind/body. What this means is that it is the subjective reaction that causes the lack of happiness. So how does one shift such seemingly automatic and blind subjective reactions?

One could choose to cultivate an equanimous mindset towards the phenomena associated with such stages. The sensations felt within the body acting as triggers for moods and mind states can be paid attention to equanimously. One could choose to beef up the malleability of the mind via concentration/samatha type practices. Jhana helps immensly as do methods for attaining jhana like metta. One could do excercise, weight lifting, hanging out with like-minded people to be able to vent, go get a shiatsu session or acupuncutre, as they both can deal holistically and inclusively with particular repetitive emotions/moods that are plaguing you. These are all choices you can make so as to bring 'space' within your life to deal with the troublesome phenomena and especially to shift the deeply engrained habit of certain subjective reactions.

I would get really curious as to why it seems automatic for the dukkha nanas to be "dark'. They are actually called "nanas" for a reason. Nana means knowledge in pali. And how does one gain knowledge? Equanimity I think is key. Shit happens, but we really do have a choice to train the mind to actually choose to shift the seemingly blind and automatic stress inducing subjective reactions towards phenomena to reactions that are more conducive for peace, harmony, calm and discernment that leads to liberation from such mental stresses.

Are you aware of the physical component/factor for any mood or mind state? Particularly the unpleasant ones? The following advice below was given to me when I still had a tendency to give status to certain sensations over others thus assigning 'weight' to certain sensations over others. Thus there was a 'norm' established within the mind for sensations as a whole. Whenever that notion of the 'norm' encountered sensations 'out of the norm' like 'shitty' sensations in the chest, a subjective reaction of dislike and aversion occured, where all sorts of unpleasant mind states jumped from and riffed off of. The dark night gained its 'status' of 'dark' due to this tendency.

Become aware of the sensations within the body. If you have access to jhanas, cultivate the 4th by fabricating it more than often. From there become aware of sensations and mental overlays. See how they interact and trigger each other. Cultivate what Tarin in the quote below calls 'insight' i.e. 'equanimity', and that actual choice and ability to choose to and be happier will land in your lap. If you do not cultivate such discernment/equanimity or some other manner of changing the blind unpleasant subjective reactions that have been established already, you will always be subject to such unpleasant conditioning. Take the power back to choose by training your mind to do just that.


"assuming a norm about the level of phenomenology is to be confused by content. it is content which 'pulls' the attention, because the attention isn't paying attention and so there is the (also content) assumption that it is happening on the level of insight. equanimity doesn't have to be fabricated because it really doesn't matter. im talking about the cause of equanimity. the causeless cause; the unfabricated cause. the whole body means the whole formation. not the assumption of what sensations out of the formation are taken to be body. understand what i'm saying

4th jhana is whatever equanimity shines through. The equanimity which purifies the mindfulness is not neutral feeling, as might be supposed, but specific neutrality, the sublime impartiality free from attachment and aversion, which also pertains to this jhana. Though both specific neutrality and mindfulness were present in the lower three jhanas, none among these is said to have "purity of mindfulness due to equanimity." The reason is that in the lower jhanas the equanimity present was not purified itself, being overshadowed by opposing states and lacking association with equanimous feeling. It is like a crescent moon which exists by day but cannot be seen because of the sunlight and the bright sky. But in the fourth jhana, where equanimity gains the support of equanimous feeling, it shines forth like the crescent moon at night and purifies mindfulness and the other associated states.'

'The equanimity which purifies the mindfulness is not neutral feeling, as might be supposed, but specific neutrality, the sublime impartiality free from attachment and aversion, ...'

not a feeling. not a feature of the field. not content. equanimity is insight." Tarin Greco


Nick