Worldly ambitions and enlightenment

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Nick P, modified 9 Years ago at 11/29/12 7:12 PM
Created 9 Years ago at 11/29/12 7:12 PM

Worldly ambitions and enlightenment

Posts: 46 Join Date: 5/20/12 Recent Posts
I was just wondering, where do worldly ambitions (or greed?) go after 4th Path?

Is there a drive to earn more money, get a promotion, get a better car/house/holidays, found your own company, beat the market or does that all just drop away?
Tom Tom, modified 9 Years ago at 11/30/12 4:44 PM
Created 9 Years ago at 11/30/12 4:43 PM

RE: Worldly ambitions and enlightenment

Posts: 466 Join Date: 9/19/09 Recent Posts
earn more money, get a promotion, get a better car/house/holidays, found your own company, beat the market


Some of this depends on the causal inertia of what was going on before. These things may or may not continue. There are certain behaviors/beliefs I was in bondage to, that I thought I liked doing/believing (like I'm such and such type of person who does such and such types of things), but later realized was just a form of bondage.
wylo , modified 9 Years ago at 12/2/12 11:26 AM
Created 9 Years ago at 12/2/12 11:26 AM

RE: Worldly ambitions and enlightenment

Posts: 166 Join Date: 11/18/11 Recent Posts
Nick P:
I was just wondering, where do worldly ambitions (or greed?) go after 4th Path?

Is there a drive to earn more money, get a promotion, get a better car/house/holidays, found your own company, beat the market or does that all just drop away?


not a 4th pather, but consider myself enlightened enough to comment on the subject at this stage.

My life was based entirely around wanting to be succesful, noticed, rich, wanting to beat the markets (literally, I was into trading for quite a while), and all those other kind of things that us humans regard as winning and doing 'life' correctly and successfully.

All that is gone. However Im in a job at the moment, and I want to be good at that job, because in the long run I could earn more money, the job would be more enjoyable, and overall , life would be more enjoyable, fun and liberating as a result.
But none of those desires are in order boost a sense of self , or put meaning or a sense of completion and success to my life.

If it puts you off that by pursuing this you may make you lose your ambitions, all I can say is, you'll only lose the ambitions that were full of nonsense in the first place imo.
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Florian, modified 9 Years ago at 12/2/12 4:44 PM
Created 9 Years ago at 12/2/12 4:44 PM

RE: Worldly ambitions and enlightenment

Posts: 1028 Join Date: 4/28/09 Recent Posts
Nick P:
I was just wondering, where do worldly ambitions (or greed?) go after 4th Path?


I don't know... maybe they find another host? emoticon

Is there a drive to earn more money, get a promotion, get a better car/house/holidays, found your own company, beat the market or does that all just drop away?


Best to look a the root: The desire to manipulate appearances, the desire to manipulate other people's perception of myself, the desire to control information (by secrecy or lies) in order to force people to have such-and-such opinion of me, has diminished so much as to be "dropped away" for good - but I'm keeping an eye on it. Wouldn't want to be fooling myself over this. You can slot this description into your model universe any way you like, or not at all.

Cheers,
Florian
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Nick P, modified 9 Years ago at 12/2/12 4:59 PM
Created 9 Years ago at 12/2/12 4:59 PM

RE: Worldly ambitions and enlightenment

Posts: 46 Join Date: 5/20/12 Recent Posts
wylo .:
All that is gone. However Im in a job at the moment, and I want to be good at that job, because in the long run I could earn more money, the job would be more enjoyable, and overall , life would be more enjoyable, fun and liberating as a result.
But none of those desires are in order boost a sense of self , or put meaning or a sense of completion and success to my life.

If it puts you off that by pursuing this you may make you lose your ambitions, all I can say is, you'll only lose the ambitions that were full of nonsense in the first place imo.


That's the thing. One of my conceptions around enlightenment is that greed drops away. If that happens to such an extent that you don't see any motivation to strive for a promotion at work (or whatever fits the particular case), that ends up negatively impacting your worldly life. You could be the happiest least suffering person in the world, but you'll create, in an extreme case, poverty and mediocrity for those around you, and therefore suffering unless they too happen to be enlightened (unlikely).

Your answer makes absolute sense, and is consistent with my ideal of a future life as an enlightened being. The self dropping away, but that doesn't mean that you just float in Nibbana for the rest of your life and can't be bothered to do anything positive for your worldly life.
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John P, modified 9 Years ago at 12/3/12 10:38 AM
Created 9 Years ago at 12/3/12 10:38 AM

RE: Worldly ambitions and enlightenment

Posts: 155 Join Date: 1/24/12 Recent Posts
Nick P:
That's the thing. One of my conceptions around enlightenment is that greed drops away. If that happens to such an extent that you don't see any motivation to strive for a promotion at work (or whatever fits the particular case), that ends up negatively impacting your worldly life. You could be the happiest least suffering person in the world, but you'll create, in an extreme case, poverty and mediocrity for those around you, and therefore suffering unless they too happen to be enlightened (unlikely).


Hey Nick, although I can't say for sure how an arahat or so would react, pretty much all the changes I have observed in myself arose from wisdom/insight and are not the same as a change from a simple hormonal reaction. Therefore I would say that the motivation of an arahat would be to relieve suffering for himself and the others, and not towards a social status and power(unless this can contribute to him helping the others)
wylo , modified 9 Years ago at 12/5/12 4:44 PM
Created 9 Years ago at 12/5/12 4:37 PM

RE: Worldly ambitions and enlightenment

Posts: 166 Join Date: 11/18/11 Recent Posts
Nick P:
wylo .:
All that is gone. However Im in a job at the moment, and I want to be good at that job, because in the long run I could earn more money, the job would be more enjoyable, and overall , life would be more enjoyable, fun and liberating as a result.
But none of those desires are in order boost a sense of self , or put meaning or a sense of completion and success to my life.

If it puts you off that by pursuing this you may make you lose your ambitions, all I can say is, you'll only lose the ambitions that were full of nonsense in the first place imo.


That's the thing. One of my conceptions around enlightenment is that greed drops away. If that happens to such an extent that you don't see any motivation to strive for a promotion at work (or whatever fits the particular case), that ends up negatively impacting your worldly life. You could be the happiest least suffering person in the world, but you'll create, in an extreme case, poverty and mediocrity for those around you, and therefore suffering unless they too happen to be enlightened (unlikely).

Your answer makes absolute sense, and is consistent with my ideal of a future life as an enlightened being. The self dropping away, but that doesn't mean that you just float in Nibbana for the rest of your life and can't be bothered to do anything positive for your worldly life.


Unless you are already prone to laziness or used to making crazy quick irrational decisions, I honestly dont think you are going to do anything that you wouldnt have already done. You will probably be more open to things alright, and you will have a more balanced and cleaner less personal view on things, and yes, this MAY result in you turning down a potential promotion, or it may not. OR , it may result in you taking that job you were always too afraid to take, or it may not.

I know Im being pretty vague there, but the point Im trying to make is, speaking from personal opinion, while it is an absolutely amazing inner transformation where you have a tremendous understanding of the behaviour or your own mind and body, and while you will feel like a totally different person, or more likely not a person at all anymore, it still doesnt necessarily mean you will lose your very basic morals and personality and interests, especially the honest ones, ie the ones that are true to you , as opposed to something you are just latching onto.

FWIW, Ive went through huge changes and have good friends that havent even noticed.

tbh, if you get really really into hit and start hitting paths, it wont be about that stuff anymore. Those questions will seem irrelevant , not that I dont respect your need to ask them at the moment though.

Something Ive often been curious about. In my life Ive never been able to kill bugs, I see people swatting a fly or a wasp with a newspaper and I think to myself I couldnt do that, not just now, but never could. I often ask myself, if during my whole I was completely used to doing that, would I still be doing it now after much practice and inner peace and enlightenment, and the answer is , probably yea emoticon

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