Hi,
This might just be my ignorance but has anyone tried jumping into metta practice whilst in a Jhana (guessing 3rd or 4th?)? If so, how was it? What was the best way to do it?

I posted this a few weeks ago but didn't get a response - maybe because it was a stoopid question? But thought I would repost it in light of Steph S post on 'more Metta' to determine if its possible and/or how to do it.
Thanks
Rod

Yes, it works because focus on anything can cause jhana (that's what can make jhana a terrible tool). I really like this "way in" to jhana, but even this becomes "boring" to the mind that loves newness and new experiences. That is a big challenge in meditation. Not getting bored and not expecting "ah ha" moments. Daniel has a very vivid practice; mine is not like that 99% of the time. Anyway, metta was not something I could use in the beginning as a "way in" to jhana because I was just totally stressed and unfamiliar with metta other than in a kind of loaded and hopeful way. It was like trying to catch butterflies with a net full of leaves. Not happening.

Anyway, Ven. Analyo mentioned in a small student body about six months ago and in a footnote in his book on satipatthana about the importance of immersing the mind in metta as the paths "advance". He mentioned his own many hours of this practice. It is excellent, with the risk simply being that it, too, is not an absolute or a refuge. It is very hard to put these things into words without feeling like pompous ass: words always fall short and often my practice too. Thanks for reposting.

What I've found has worked is to take an image or idea that causes piti and friendliness. Sustaining that image/thought over time and practice will build the first jhana. For me, once that becomes well sustained, then the associated sensations quickly suffuse into the suffusive, vibrations of piti, leaving behind the sustained word or image used in first jhana. Metta gave piti (2nd jhana) an outgoing-sensation (like dissolution but with a massive energy feeling as opposed to dissolution's lack of boundary and gentle, out-flowing-sand quality). As the piti dissipates into comfort then into equanimity, the metta quality contacts (or rides on like a board on surf) an increasingly reduced feeling of energy (from 1st piti to 4th equanimity) and becomes more like very whole receptivity and uniformly vibrant, like being magnetized to environment and without any gradient flow, just magnetized. I have only experienced fourth jhana a handful of times and each time it seemed neutral but also deeply engaged-- as if fourth jhana -- as if this pure equanimity --- in a human being is metta. (Keep in mind I have very limited experience to draw from.)

If you can, consider doing this in a place around people that wouldn't be too weird: natural places where people just sit around and look quiet and mildly pleasant are park benches and/or a meditation hall during a discussion period after zazen for example.

There are lots of different circumstances to field this practice, many well beyond my skillset. Each person is different. It would be interesting to learn what you bring to this study and to the forum aslo!

Edit: re-reading this, I can see how a technical effort like this seems totally removed from a practical outcome, but it is practical. Like learning to ride a bike, a person (such as me) needs some practice before riding to the store or going down a trail.

Hi Katy,

Thanks very much for your replies and info here - really interesting and helpful. Up till now, I have been developing skill in Jhanas as a way of developing better concentration and have been using the breath as the way to get into them. I thought that Metta might achieve multiple purposes in this as a combined practice. I also am interested to try and perform metta whilst in 4th Jhana (Mainly because its really balanced, stable and not much else happens there) and if you can do noting there, I believe Metta also could be done from there. So I will try this over the next few days and report back once I have a stable repeatable result. Worst case, I will be booted out of the jhana and back to access concentration I guess

I have experimented with getting into 1st Jhana at least in public places (the bus etc) and certainly can get the piti and sukkha to rise but usually the trip is not long enough for me to counter all 5 hindrances before its time to get off. Park is a good idea - since its summer here should be quite comfortable.
Thanks and will post the results

Oh, I didn't see this the first time you posted!

Rod, how are your visualization abilities? If you have any sort of skill in that area, you could do a visualization style metta for 4th jhana. This wasn't something I set out to do, but I noticed that when I do traditional wishing for well being mantra style metta I get much stronger than usual 2nd jhana - like within a few seconds so strong I can barely handle it. I generally let that be my momentum for the rest of the session... so that when 3rd comes around and its more relaxed, there's still the oomph carrying it along. I drop the mantra by that point more or less just focusing towards it getting more mild... then when 4th comes around I started noticing that I'd get very subtle visualizations appearing of things like little golden buddhas dancing. So then, I can angle that towards metta and have it be symbolic of all beings as enlightened little golden dancing buddhas and the like. haha. Pretty fun stuff.

Hi Steph,

Thanks for this - so far I have not been trying to visualise anything just breath, lots of pitti and sukkha feelings and crazy psychedelic flashing and swirling depending on the Jhana I think I am in. So 4th Jhana for me although a very pleasant experience is characterised by balance and no picture of anything. Having said that, I tend to think very visually so approaching the process this way shouldn't be too difficult and sounds a great way to symbolise Metta and send it out (Little gold dancing Buddhas) or whatever image pops up in front of me. Well it looks like I have a lot of experiments to do so will report back when I have stable results.
Thanks

Hi Rod, sorry I missed your pointer to this thread earlier!

AFAIK (and also from my own experience) you cannot do metta in 4th jhana --If I remember correctly I think the TWIM style of samatha-vipassana metta technique turns metta into compassion, then equanimity radiating out from the head in 3rd/4th. I forget the details, but following these guys for a month or so and getting some help directly from them on their email list was really helpful as I developed jhana.

I have not tried to jump into metta FROM jhana, though as as I think about it it seems quite doable. I will give it a go and report back some time.