Vipassana headache

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N A, modified 11 Years ago at 12/12/12 11:24 PM
Created 11 Years ago at 12/12/12 11:20 PM

Vipassana headache

Posts: 157 Join Date: 7/10/11 Recent Posts
There are several threads here that seem to be describing a similar phenomenon but I want to be as specific as possible to ensure we are talking about the same thing (i.e. I'm not certain that "third eye pressure" is the same thing).
I'd like to know to what extent others experience the following, and whether it is an indication of anything important.

The scenario:

You are meditating well
You are doing vipassana
Nothing really bothers you, any sensation is fairly clearly perceived as "not self" even if you can't necessarily break it down into pinpoints
This includes the sensations along the spine, in the chest, inside the mouth, anywhere on the head... All are easily perceived without getting distracted. All are clearly seen as not-self
The sense of self at this point is really subtle, as almost everything is "outside".

Suddenly/gradually you become aware of a painful headache that gets more painful as you notice it. It feels like it's right in the center of your being, and unlike every other physical sensation by this point, it does feel as self. Meditation gets progressively more uncomfortable/painful/scary due to this one headache.

You drop concentration... but the headache is still there, although now it's not as central/important. It goes away after some time.

I'm of course bothered by how it persists after meditation. Otherwise the only reasonable thing would be to keep examining it until the sense of self is seen through. But if I have inadvertently stumbled onto a feedback loop that allows me to generate and amplify headaches... I would rather not.
super fox, modified 11 Years ago at 12/12/12 11:32 PM
Created 11 Years ago at 12/12/12 11:32 PM

RE: Vipassana headache

Posts: 36 Join Date: 2/9/11 Recent Posts
I sometimes have a similar experience, though it doesn't seem to persist outside of meditation much more than a few minutes at most.

Have you considered examining physiological conditions? Tight shoulders, tight back, tight neck, etc? It could be that during your normal daily life the mind suppresses these tensions but during intensive meditation these body-stresses come out from hiding.
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Voku Hila, modified 11 Years ago at 12/13/12 7:24 AM
Created 11 Years ago at 12/13/12 7:24 AM

RE: Vipassana headache

Posts: 34 Join Date: 6/29/12 Recent Posts
N A:
There are several threads here that seem to be describing a similar phenomenon but I want to be as specific as
Suddenly/gradually you become aware of a painful headache that gets more painful as you notice it. It feels like it's right in the center of your being, and unlike every other physical sensation by this point, it does feel as self. Meditation gets progressively more uncomfortable/painful/scary due to this one headache.


I don't have a clear image/experience of what you are talking.

But if you want the pain to go away maybe it's beneficial to breath through the pain. It helped me with the third eye pressure.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/thanissaro/painhelp.html

Another technique is to breathe through the pain. If you can become sensitive to the breath sensations that course through the body each time you breathe, you will notice that you tend to build a tense shell around the pain, where the energy in the body doesn't flow freely. This, although it's a kind of avoidance technique, actually increases the pain. So think of the breath flowing right through the pain as you breathe in and out, to dissolve away this shell of tension. In most cases, you will find that this can relieve the pain considerably. For instance, when I had malaria, I found this very useful in relieving the mass of tension that would gather in my head and shoulders. At times it would get so great that I could scarcely breath, so I just thought of the breath coming in through all the nerve centers in my body — the middle of the chest, the throat, the middle of the forehead and so forth — and the tension would dissolve away. However, there are some people though who find that breathing through the pain increases the pain, which is a sign that they are focusing improperly. The solution in that case is to focus on the opposite side of the body. In other words, if the pain is in the right side, focus on the left. If it's in front, focus on the back. If it's in your head — literally — focus on your hands and feet. (This technique works particularly well with migraine, by the way: If, for example, your migraine is on the right side, focus on the breath sensations the left side of your body, from the neck on down.)

by Thanissaro Bhikku
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Beoman Claudiu Dragon Emu Fire Golem, modified 11 Years ago at 12/13/12 8:19 AM
Created 11 Years ago at 12/13/12 8:19 AM

RE: Vipassana headache

Posts: 2227 Join Date: 10/27/10 Recent Posts
But if I have inadvertently stumbled onto a feedback loop that allows me to generate and amplify headaches... I would rather not.

It sounds just like the annoying tension in the head I experienced, complete with it feeling like 'self'.

What happened with me is that a while back, I would sometimes feel it only when I thought I was concentrating well, pre-stream entry. Then one morning I got up and was able to feel it without having meditated! I took that as a good sign, so I started cultivating experiencing sensations in my head like that throughout the day. This did improve my concentration but also had horrendous side-effects, e.g. always experiencing a tension in my head whenever I was not distracted. I can't recommend doing whatever you can to avoid it enough. Definitely don't get to the point where it's a constant daily thing. Figure something else out.
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Ian And, modified 11 Years ago at 12/15/12 12:10 PM
Created 11 Years ago at 12/15/12 12:10 PM

RE: Vipassana headache

Posts: 785 Join Date: 8/22/09 Recent Posts
Beoman Claudiu Dragon Emu Fire Golem:
But if I have inadvertently stumbled onto a feedback loop that allows me to generate and amplify headaches... I would rather not.

It sounds just like the annoying tension in the head I experienced, complete with it feeling like 'self'.

If you could, please, explain how a sensation such as the one being referenced can "feel like self." I'm not quite following you here.

I know that subjective experience can be difficult to communicate to another, it being a subtle experience and totally subjectively perceived, however, it would be fascinating to hear what is meant by this if it can be explained. Perhaps it's just a matter of "view," that is, how one views the experience, thus attributing self to it.

As regards this latter phenomenon of "view," there was an occasion once when I experienced pain in the body and noticed that normally I would have viewed it as being part of the body which I viewed as being "me." As soon as I realized that I was doing this, the pain become viewed as being separate from "me" and "not me," as in "this is not mine, this is not myself, this is not who I am." I realized that the pain belonged to the body, which previously I was already aware of not being me; yet this experience brought home the point all the more emphatically, as it pointed out to me what I had been doing most of my life up until that moment of realization: that is, treating the body as being "me." Ever since then, I don't trouble myself (create dukkha) with identifying bodily pain as having anything to do with myself. It is something that the body is experiencing, and I am not the body.

Viewing this in this way allows me to more effectively deal with whatever the present situation (in this example, the arising of pain in the body) might be, rather than collapsing into a helpless heap, at the mercy of "my body's pain." One of the things I noticed from this experience was that as soon as I became aware (mindful) of this mental habit of transferring "selfhood" to the pain and made a conscious effort not to continue doing so, that the pain gradually dissipated and went away. I'm not saying that there is necessarily a connection between these events (as the pain was rather momentary anyway and may have well easily dissipated whether or not I had made this connection).

What I am saying is: that having made that connection, I was mindfully confronting whatever was happening in that moment and seeking a way to relieve the body of that experience (i.e. the pain) if such was possible. As it was, I just had to wait it out, until it disappeared. Rather than feeling as though I was a victim of the pain (thus possibly increasing its duration), I realized that it had nothing to do with myself (or my view of myself) and therefore became proactive in finding a way for its dissipation.

In relation to this, I've always viewed the pressure between the brow as being a positive sign (nimitta) of concentration, and never have I described it as a headache, because the sensation didn't feel the same as a headache (although I can understand how others might describe it as so). My headaches usually have a throbbing component, and this pressure I felt had nothing of that. It perhaps helped that my view of this pressure (which I've experienced all the way back to childhood) has always been connected in my mind with an increase in concentration levels and not with anything else.

Beoman Claudiu Dragon Emu Fire Golem:

What happened with me is that a while back, I would sometimes feel it only when I thought I was concentrating well, pre-stream entry. Then one morning I got up and was able to feel it without having meditated! I took that as a good sign, so I started cultivating experiencing sensations in my head like that throughout the day. This did improve my concentration but also had horrendous side-effects, e.g. always experiencing a tension in my head whenever I was not distracted.

Yes. I would agree with the description of "not being distracted" when experiencing this pressure. That's why I like it! It keeps me grounded in mindful awareness. Also, I don't view its arising as being necessarily distracting. Meaning I don't view its arising in a negative manner, nor does it have any negative effect on anything I might be doing. For instance, I sometimes experience this phenomenon when running, at times when I need to increase my concentration to continue maintaining the pace of the speed I'm running at. It keeps me from letting go into a less mindful state where I might give in to the suggestion or thought of slowing down, when what I want to do is maintain or speed up the pace. In other words, this mindfulness helps me to achieve the goal I have in mind to achieve (whatever that goal – large or small – might be).
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Brian Eleven, modified 11 Years ago at 12/15/12 1:29 PM
Created 11 Years ago at 12/15/12 1:24 PM

RE: Vipassana headache

Posts: 221 Join Date: 9/14/10 Recent Posts
N A,
I think I know exactly what you are experiencing... unfortunately.
I've been experiencing my third eye tension for a while and seem to have tracked it to what I believe is it's source.
Control
Whenever I attempt to exert any sort of control on my experience, shazam! tension.
A lot of mine seems to come from having experienced just enough positive effects of meditation to think I know what "should" be happening. Peaceful, at one, still, etc. So, I try to direct my experience towards those types of experiences. I've tried TWIM, zazen, noting, do nothing(Shinzen Young), Rest in awareness(Adyashanti), counting the breath, choiceless awareness, mindfulness of the body. Lately I've been sitting with the question "Before birth, who am I?" Same result of tension in the head. I'm experiencing it right now as I write this.
When I begin a new technique it seems to solve the issue for a while(days or weeks) but the old control freak returns and tries to take over. It occurs much more often when I am tired, like toward the end of the work week, and my evening sit.
The only thing that seems effective in decreasing the tension is getting lots of rest and allowing the desire to control just be there.
Fighting it just seems like another form of control anyway. I think that eventually this will drive me to just finally once and for all Give Up! Admit I have no control and stop trying to be in charge, since their is no me to be in charge anyway. That or I'll just go nuts!
emoticon
I suspect this, for me, is a long term habit I picked up when I was young and had a need to very strictly control myself for familial reasons I'd rather not get into. I'm always very strict with my thoughts and feelings, and meditating is making me aware of this and loosening my hold...I think.
I'm not sure if this sounds similar to what you may be experiencing, but I can relate to annoying forehead tension from meditating and hope this may be of some help to you.

Metta,

Brian.

p.s. faster EFT(google it for a short you tube video) has provided some relief from the phyisical tension.
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Beoman Claudiu Dragon Emu Fire Golem, modified 11 Years ago at 12/16/12 10:46 AM
Created 11 Years ago at 12/16/12 10:46 AM

RE: Vipassana headache

Posts: 2227 Join Date: 10/27/10 Recent Posts
Hey Ian,

Ian And:
Beoman Claudiu Dragon Emu Fire Golem:
But if I have inadvertently stumbled onto a feedback loop that allows me to generate and amplify headaches... I would rather not.

It sounds just like the annoying tension in the head I experienced, complete with it feeling like 'self'.

If you could, please, explain how a sensation such as the one being referenced can "feel like self." I'm not quite following you here.

I know that subjective experience can be difficult to communicate to another, it being a subtle experience and totally subjectively perceived, however, it would be fascinating to hear what is meant by this if it can be explained. Perhaps it's just a matter of "view," that is, how one views the experience, thus attributing self to it.

As you pointed out you'd be fascinated to hear what I meant by what I said, I'll try to expound on it.

I think it was indeed a matter of "view". Essentially, the view I had taken up after reading MCTB and beginning to practice in accordance with it was that all phenomena must be seen as they really are, that is, as exhibiting the three characteristics of impermanence, not-self, and unsatisfactoriness. Thus, the only problem, from my view, was mistakenly seeing phenomena as permanent, self, or satisfactory. I figured if I could see all phenomena as impermanent, not-self, and unsatisfactory, in real-time, that I would no longer have any problems in my life in a fundamental sense.

After beginning to practice in this way, soon I started experiencing some sort of interesting sensations in my head area, and during my daily life - when I wasn't formally meditating! I thought this was great. Previously, I had only experienced 'interesting phenomena' when deep in meditation. This was, to me, the first evidence that I was doing something right - that I was experiencing something out of the ordinary during my daily life as a direct result of my meditation. I liked it, just as you said you do in your post. I took it as a sign of being mindful and I indeed sought to cultivate it. Ultimately this helped with my then-goal of achieving the MCTB paths as I got its stream entry, and later paths, soon after having first experiencing it. Putting my attention on it definitely helped my concentration and was an easy object to get back to during the day.

However, it sort of turned on me. I was very persistent and soon my default mode of experience became paying attention to that nimitta. The problem was that a lot of the time I was going through a dark night, which was not pleasant at all, and I quickly grew to dislike the pressure as it was both physically and emotionally painful. It often got to the point where really all I wanted was to not experience the tension anymore and I would be happy. It was not lost on me that before I ever started meditating I never experienced such a phenomenon.

Now, combine this with the view above, that the only problem was mistakenly seeing phenomena as permanent, self, or satisfactory and all I had to do was see them as impermanent, not-self, and unsatisfactory to solve said problem. It was obvious that this pressure had become a problem because it was so unpleasant. I knew it was impermanent as it wasn't there all the time and even when it was it was constantly fluxing. And I certainly knew it was unsatisfactory both as a general concept and in real-time. But I had all sorts of anxieties and thoughts and fears associated with it, and it was so unpleasant, that it basically felt like a painful blob of 'me-ness' that I had not properly seen as not-self to the correct degree... thus it felt like 'self' in some deep, remarkably annoying, painful way.

Does that explanation make sense?

Regards,
Claudiu
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Bruno Loff, modified 11 Years ago at 12/17/12 4:22 AM
Created 11 Years ago at 12/17/12 4:22 AM

RE: Vipassana headache

Posts: 1094 Join Date: 8/30/09 Recent Posts
Brian Eleven:
N A,
I think I know exactly what you are experiencing... unfortunately.
I've been experiencing my third eye tension for a while and seem to have tracked it to what I believe is it's source.
Control
Whenever I attempt to exert any sort of control on my experience, shazam! tension.


Bingo!

It might be more appropriate to say it is not control itself, but rather a sensation of tension or resistance which is repeated due to it giving a pleasurable, safe and seemingly solid feeling of "me doing" or "me being in control." Meaning it is possible to take control of a given situation in a way that doesn't reinforce this tension, and then actions will feel spontaneous and autonomous.

Ian: I think that the tension you are referring to is not the same as the one we are discussing.

Here is something that I have been experimenting with recently and which seems to show some promise in releasing this tension.

I take on the following working assumption: the vipassana-headache-tension I am experiencing is the result of a sort of addiction to the feeling of being in control. By tensing certain areas I seek to somehow reassure myself that I am safe, that the present situation won't go out of hand.

So in order to make the tension go away, I should not force it, and I should not try to manipulate it, because this will simply reinforce the root cause (wanting to be in control in order to avoid certain experiences) and exacerbate the problem.

Instead, I should take on various initiatives and procedures that will promote a feeling of being safe. The attitude and mental direction is somewhat akin to the adequate attitude to adopt if I see a child clutching himself because of fear.

In that situation, I would hold this child close, bring it human warmth and a feeling of being supported and safe.

And this is what I should do to myself, There are various strategies and actions that can be taken. First of all, just the mental attitude of being warm and supportive and embracing is a big change; it is in itself conductive to relaxation.

But there are physical tricks that work by themselves. For instance it is easier feeling safe when comfy winter socks are keeping my feet warm. It is also possible to promote a feeling of safety by placing the hands appropriately in the affected (tense) area: for instance the tension in the head responds well when I place one hand on my forehead, and another on the back of the head; or when I place one hand in each ear; or when I support my chin with one hand on each side of the face. If you want to try this, remember that you are aiming for supportive, warm, and snug. Convince yourself in this way that it is completely safe for your experience to go wherever it goes.

If this isn't working very well, there is another trick that can be done: have someone else play the supportive role. When done correctly, this is much more powerful (due to human nature). For instance, have someone you trust hold your hand for thirty minutes; this person should hold your hand snug between both of his or her hands, while you lay back and relax. The holding should not be too tight, that you feel constricted, but it should also most definitely not be too loose, that you feel abandoned. It should be snug.

The same way a hand is held, a head can also be held, or any other area where there is tension. Without applying force and without manipulating the area being held. Just hold it from both sides, firm, snug and supportive. Do not underestimate this technique due to its apparent simplicity, it is very, very powerful.

After some sessions like this (the massage technique is called yin tui-na, or forceless spontaneous release), it was easier to understand how to do it to myself. The basic concept (which I have now reinforced to exhaustion emoticon ) is to provide support in order to promote a feeling of safety.
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Ian And, modified 11 Years ago at 12/17/12 10:56 AM
Created 11 Years ago at 12/17/12 10:56 AM

RE: Vipassana headache

Posts: 785 Join Date: 8/22/09 Recent Posts
Hello Claudiu,

I apologize, in advance, for seeming to highjack this thread to make these points. But they are related to the discussion taking place.

Beoman Claudiu Dragon Emu Fire Golem:

Does that explanation make sense?

Thank you for taking the time to explain this for me (and, in addition, for others). Yes, your explanation does make sense to me. You analyzed it perfectly and clearly. At least as far as my own understanding of what you meant is concerned. If you don't mind, I would like to use your analysis to point out a few things which may be of benefit for yourself and others.

Beoman Claudiu Dragon Emu Fire Golem:

I think it was indeed a matter of "view". Essentially, the view I had taken up after reading MCTB and beginning to practice in accordance with it was that all phenomena must be seen as they really are, that is, as exhibiting the three characteristics of impermanence, not-self, and unsatisfactoriness. Thus, the only problem, from my view, was mistakenly seeing phenomena as permanent, self, or satisfactory. I figured if I could see all phenomena as impermanent, not-self, and unsatisfactory, in real-time, that I would no longer have any problems in my life in a fundamental sense.

It is good that you realized that this was a matter of how you were "viewing" it. The real problem, in addition to being able to address one's own held "views," takes more than just superficially changing one's view on a conscious basis. Just changing how one views such phenomena is only one step on the road to overcoming the effect of unwholesome ingrained views in the psyche. You have to root out the "ingrained" quality of the unwholesome experience in order to actually be free of its effect. Does that make sense?

And in order to do that, there is more work to be done than just simply changing the superficial view of the event (phenomenon) in your mind. In other words, changing that superficial view does not, by itself, root out the ingrained effect this can have on the psyche. There has to be a moment of recognition, of inner knowing, an ah-ha moment so to speak, that disposes (discharges) the effect at the psychic level of the mind. If you haven't done that work, nothing you do on a superficial level of mind is going to work to rid you of those unwholesome and emotionally charged engrams (or underlying tendencies), which will come back to haunt the mind until they are eventually removed altogether.

Beoman Claudiu Dragon Emu Fire Golem:

After beginning to practice in this way, soon I started experiencing some sort of interesting sensations in my head area, and during my daily life - when I wasn't formally meditating! I thought this was great. Previously, I had only experienced 'interesting phenomena' when deep in meditation. This was, to me, the first evidence that I was doing something right - that I was experiencing something out of the ordinary during my daily life as a direct result of my meditation. I liked it, just as you said you do in your post. I took it as a sign of being mindful and I indeed sought to cultivate it. Ultimately this helped with my then-goal of achieving the MCTB paths as I got its stream entry, and later paths, soon after having first experiencing it. Putting my attention on it definitely helped my concentration and was an easy object to get back to during the day.

Yes. I've had the exact same responses to this phenomenon myself. And there is nothing wrong with cultivating these realizations of this phenomenon and using that realization in your waking conscious life. It corresponds to "skilful means," allowing one to implement dispassion and equanimity in place of attachment. Though these subtleties may not be adequately or clearly explained in the discourses, they are none the less there for those who can read between the lines.

Beoman Claudiu Dragon Emu Fire Golem:

However, it sort of turned on me. I was very persistent and soon my default mode of experience became paying attention to that nimitta. The problem was that a lot of the time I was going through a dark night, which was not pleasant at all, and I quickly grew to dislike the pressure as it was both physically and emotionally painful. It often got to the point where really all I wanted was to not experience the tension anymore and I would be happy. It was not lost on me that before I ever started meditating I never experienced such a phenomenon.

These statements point to insight. But that insight must be used "skilfully" in order to accomplish your intended goal of rooting out these (what is called in the discourses, asavas) or underlying tendencies.

I'm sure that it is not lost on you that you pointed out that as you were undergoing this period, that you were also in the midst of passing through a dark night. That association in your mind creates an asava or underlying tendency. That underlying tendency was based on information and reactions that were false in nature. In other words, once you realized that the dark night was "false evidence appearing real," that recognition (realization) released (discharged) the energy holding that asava in place in the mind.

The same thing has to happen with every other unwholesome underlying tendency associated in the mind. It takes time to accomplish this, which is possibly why it is not often enough mentioned in places like this. In other words, people want a "quick fix" for the causes of dukkha in their lives. But that's not how it works in reality. You have to root these causes out one by one as you recognize them in your psyche!

Beoman Claudiu Dragon Emu Fire Golem:

Now, combine this with the view above, that the only problem was mistakenly seeing phenomena as permanent, self, or satisfactory and all I had to do was see them as impermanent, not-self, and unsatisfactory to solve said problem. It was obvious that this pressure had become a problem because it was so unpleasant. I knew it was impermanent as it wasn't there all the time and even when it was it was constantly fluxing. And I certainly knew it was unsatisfactory both as a general concept and in real-time. But I had all sorts of anxieties and thoughts and fears associated with it, and it was so unpleasant, that it basically felt like a painful blob of 'me-ness' that I had not properly seen as not-self to the correct degree... thus it felt like 'self' in some deep, remarkably annoying, painful way.

I hope the language you have used here is not being lost on you. Have you taken the time to really explore (contemplate, either during or outside of formal meditation) the aggregate of vedana or "feeling" and how that affects the dependently co-arising of phenomena? As soon as you begin to recognize (awaken to and know) this fact, it can discharge the energy holding an asava in place!

Therefore, it takes doing insight practice into seeing this process taking place in the mind as it is taking place so that you are then able to preempt its execution! And eventually eliminate the asava causing its arising altogether. This is how to set the mind FREE from being afflicted by events and causations that are dukkha (dissatisfying)!

I've attached an essay I wrote several years ago which might help to shed some light on the contemplation of "feeling." Feel free to search for other writings about this important aspect of the practice for further edification.
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Brian Eleven, modified 11 Years ago at 12/17/12 8:24 PM
Created 11 Years ago at 12/17/12 8:24 PM

RE: Vipassana headache

Posts: 221 Join Date: 9/14/10 Recent Posts
I just happened to be directed to an Eckhart Tolle video in which he talks about this very thing. Well almost, he doesn't talk about tension in the forehead but talks exactly about the cause of my tension.
He answers a question about why so many spiritual teachers direct students to practices that they did not use to awaken themselves. The question in particular is why do practices to lessen suffering when many teachers seem to awaken as a result of suffering. Anyway that's the gist of the video. But at about the 15 minute mark(it's 22 minutes total) he talks about the mind taking very simple things, like being present, or aware of the feeling of aliveness, or accepting what is, and turns them into techniques or practices that we then need to become better at and master.
This is a very good description of what I do. I sit down with the intention to simply sit in a chair and see what happens. Before I know it I'm subtly introducing effort into it. I'm trying to pay attention, and trying to 'let go', and trying to be calm, trying to feel the body or the breath, but trying to do so without changing it. I can't even sit in a &#$%@ chair and do nothing!!
It's gotten to the point that the idea of not sitting twice a day is freaking me out. It's just become another support for the self, an identification device, a part of who "Brian" is.
Instead of helping to drop the "I" that doesn't exist, my practice is supporting it. Now that's a pisser!!!


Metta,


Brian.

The video:Eckhart Tolle
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Bruno Loff, modified 11 Years ago at 12/18/12 3:45 AM
Created 11 Years ago at 12/18/12 3:45 AM

RE: Vipassana headache

Posts: 1094 Join Date: 8/30/09 Recent Posts
Brian Eleven:
But at about the 15 minute mark(it's 22 minutes total) he talks about the mind taking very simple things, like being present, or aware of the feeling of aliveness, or accepting what is, and turns them into techniques or practices that we then need to become better at and master.


So what? I don't know of a single practitioner that has changed his mind significantly and deeply without putting in the time to master various meditation techniques.

By the way there are many masters who have awakened through practices that are liable to cause suffering and still teach those very same practices. The difference is that they sell much less, because these practices require commitment and discipline, and are hence less likely to end up as youtube videos.
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Brian Eleven, modified 11 Years ago at 12/18/12 11:29 AM
Created 11 Years ago at 12/18/12 9:41 AM

RE: Vipassana headache

Posts: 221 Join Date: 9/14/10 Recent Posts
"So what?"
Well other then the fact that it is an exact description of what I was trying to describe in my original post, and directly related to the topic of the thread... nothing I guess.
So...you seem a little up tight about Tolle then? To the point that you didn't even read the entire post?
Just to make You feel better I'm not suggesting anyone do his, or any practices, just a very good 3 minute explanation of what I was trying to express. Do whatever practice works best for you.

Metta,

Brian

Edit: My post(re the Tolle video) was obviously unclear and I apologize for that.
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Bruno Loff, modified 11 Years ago at 12/18/12 1:47 PM
Created 11 Years ago at 12/18/12 1:47 PM

RE: Vipassana headache

Posts: 1094 Join Date: 8/30/09 Recent Posts
Heh, I did read all your posts, and I did see the video.

My point was this: the whole equanimity and relaxation part of practice can and should be taken up with the same pragmatic, methodological atitude that characterizes, for instance, MCTB. It can be just as goal-oriented, evidence-based, and hardcore as vipassana (though of course it will feel very soft), and if well done it should converge to the same insights.

But when Eckhart Tolle writes about equanimity (he calls it "just let it be"), people make such a big fuss, as if he is somehow more deep because he speaks with that calm voice and he makes long pauses in the middle of his sentences. People buy into the persona, and they pay well for it, too. Just go to eckharttolle.com and buy a "Realizing the Power of Now CD" for $46.87, or subscribe to six months of "Eckhart Tolle TV" for only $99!

As a spiritual teacher, the guy is utterly second-rate, even borderline ignorant. His main talent is as a businessman... pity that the suckers who give him money are the same poor bastards who had to go through a dark night and are feeling utterly lost. That doesn't seem to bother him one bit, though, his cognitive dissonance is so high that he even feels entitled to pass judgement on when it is or is not appropriate to make money.
Change A, modified 11 Years ago at 12/18/12 11:00 PM
Created 11 Years ago at 12/18/12 11:00 PM

RE: Vipassana headache

Posts: 791 Join Date: 5/24/10 Recent Posts
Bruno Loff:
It might be more appropriate to say it is not control itself, but rather a sensation of tension or resistance which is repeated due to it giving a pleasurable, safe and seemingly solid feeling of "me doing" or "me being in control." Meaning it is possible to take control of a given situation in a way that doesn't reinforce this tension, and then actions will feel spontaneous and autonomous.


True. I think that the need for "me being in control" arises due to the instinctual tendencies of humans while living in a social environment.