We had a fun time making jokes in https://www.dharmaoverground.org/discussion/-/message_boards/message/37891254

A K D also raised a good question, which I might paraphrase as "Yeah, but seriously...."

A K D was happy to let it go, but I really felt it was a good point, and worth exploring. The thread might give people the idea that the consensus here is that awakening makes no difference. That has certainly not been my experience, and I don't think it is what most of us think. 

Of course, Papa's "When I awaken, ..." conversation-starter was talking about what people expect to happen in the future, and I think that is a very good conversation to have, but I am interested in asking about how things have changed for people who find that spiritual developments have made a lasting change. 

I am sticking to the term "awakened" because I think it can be very broad. I'm using it to mean any major transition, and probably the most recent one for you. That is, I'm not asking only about one specific path attainment, or even any path attainment, just a change that some people might refer to as awakening. 

For me, two big things have changed.

The first is the lack of suffering in the sense of being trapped in or bound to afflictive mind states. I am specifically talking about things like fear, worry, obsession, shame, resentment, aversion, and anger, which, in the past, could take hold of me, against my will, as it were. I can sometimes see that knot starting to form, but the binding process no longer completes. There is no more wishing that I did not feel how I do, or trying to escape a thought or emotion, and no more suffering without resistance either, so in this sense, no suffering. For example, I just now got back from the hospital where I had a minor procedure and, just before I left, I had the sense that I was forgetting something. And I realized, "I haven't worried, maybe I should worry." And then I remembered, what could there be to worry about, it doesn't work that way anymore. 

The second is the beauty of watching things unfold and be. This is sometimes in the form of non-dual awareness, sometimes in seated meditation, sometimes just seeing things as they appear now. I am going to include jhana in this, as that is something that only became available at a certain point. 

For me, the first is constant, and has been unchanging for the past 18 months or so, while the second is more a matter of states, which come and go on their own schedule, without consulting me as all :-) To be honest, I'm interested in exploring more of the second. These states can take a certain amount of energy, but my health has been improving in the past few months, so I think I would like more beauty. Why not?

What about other people? What has changed?

 

there were 3 main changes...

the first is to see vibrations? sometimes they can be "full" vibrations. i just came home from a walk in the dark. it's 3 am and on my walk i could watch the trees flicker (disappearing and re-appearing). those vibrations have different "tones". and they're all different. sometimes they're "stuck" energy (concentration state) like a single part of experience flickering (e.g. nirodha samapatti but with a single object)... the chair right here, it's got weird vibrations, it's a dark chair. it's got lots of lightness, brightness, bright vibrations. that means it's close to cessation.

oh, 4 main changes (this is the 4th i just came up with)
weird fractal experience... a sub-change for this is that my visual field has increased. the computer screen feels much wider, for example. but vision feels also much higher, so i can see more at the top and bottom, which can be really obvious sometimes. but the breadth has widened multiple times. anyway, the fractal experience. sometimes my attention is focused more on the smaller details and sometimes it goes out further. investigation seems to work that way also. it's really interesting that way. layers are really nice.

oh, 5 main changes (this is the 5th)
energy... atm i'm going through some energetic changes. i'm starting to feel more and more relaxed in baseline and things are starting to feel just more natural and at ease, kind of smooth. alright, and a 6th change: i had this weird experience recently that my experience-density per time has increased a lot. i was walking a path and it felt like it would never end (not in a negative way, just the experience felt insanely rich... everything just stimulating, but not in a "too much" way, just life is insanely rich and full of experience) to the energetic changes - metabolism is also adjusting somewhat, in terms of sweating/body-heat. strange neurocognitive reorganization to be in a default state of relaxation rather than concentration.

the 2nd change is the end of escape. at first, i was simply insensitive to pain and effort and so my life felt effortless, because i was insensitive to it... later it changed and the escape ended, so i can be with sorrow and as sorrow or with anger as anger, without concentrating away from it or whatever typical reaction might be.

the 3rd change, which is going on right now, is the transition from concentrating to observing... you could say, from doing to being, and to be is to do. and i think there is beauty in that. lol.

alright, a 7th change. i became extremely sensitive to how my "self" affects other people. whether you call it "psychic powers" or "synchronization" or whatever, there's lots of interesting "coincidences"... even from a purely "realistic" point of view. if you are angry and sensitive to other people right now, because you might be in some "dark night territory stuff", you might see other people as being rude somehow. it's about seeing how theory and practice work together, because they are not separate from each other.

perhaps another change, 8th change - i spent pretty much my whole life in solitude with autistic social skills and social anxiety. even having people in visual field or hearing people can bring up strong fear. it took quite a bit more than finishing "2nd path" to be able to go outside regularly, just for walks. i even managed to talk to people, i gained a sense of initiative, i recovered my dead feelings and went beyond intellectual brain usage.

perhaps 9th change - is that i can notice how weird time experiences can feel. it's super weird to remember a path i walked, and then i see that i'm sitting in my room right now and somehow all this "long experience" feels like nothing. lol.

and 10th, for the 10 precepts... i also became much better at chess, despite studying much less (not at all, other than simply playing it). living becomes learning.

My experience was what Shinzen Young describes as gradual, or Jack Kornfield calls the gateless gate. I've had many sudden experiences (anatta, noself, fruition, kensho) like what people say for them was awakening but those experiences didn't really change anything for me, I didn't consider that awakening, to me they just seemed like altered brain states caused by a lot of meditation.

What happened with me was that at some point I realized that something is different, I don't get annoyed by things that used to annoy me, My sense of self importance is lessened. I have more compassion for people, I see things from their point of view as if they aren't separate/different from me. I don't like to do things that hurt other people because I have more empathy and feel their pain.

It isn't just the calming effects of meditation, it doesn't depend on how much meditation do. As far I can tell it is a permanent change.

For me the practice that is most effective is relaxing meditation as preparation for vipassana, and then noticing, in meditation and daily life, all the activity of the mind but in particular noticing how suffering arises and fades and how the ego is involved in suffering. I am influenced by the anapanasati sutta which cultivates both samatha and vipassana in the same meditation session, and the sattipathana sutta which gives instructions on how to live mindfully. My practice and experience most closely resembles this:

https://inquiringmind.com/article/2701_w_kornfield-enlightenments/

I've only reached 1st path so far, but there are some major changes. The most tangible one is reduced fatique. I used to consistently get tired around 2pm and regularly took naps around then, but now I just don't. There's also a general sense of ease and spaciousness that persists even in suboptimal mental states. It actually gets a bit stronger then, like there's a 'space' around any hazy or unpleasent states preventing them from coloring my whole experience.
Very interested in what 2nd path will bring.

My curiosity about how experience is pieced together has been resolved, resulting in a dramatic reduction of the fear of the roller coaster ride that is human existence. The ride remains. The fear of the unknown disaster that seems to lurk around every corner is gone. What's left is a deep appreciation for the mystery, the chaos, and the beauty of it all.

When I awaken, ... then I will tell you what has changed! 

I think I'm much more creative and much better able to act upon and realize my creativity because I'm not so consumed by suffering. 

How are your hemorrhoids, mate? 

Mostly good. Yours?