my meditation creates more suffering than peace ... - Discussion
my meditation creates more suffering than peace ...
hong ng, modified 11 Years ago at 12/30/12 6:41 AM
Created 11 Years ago at 12/30/12 6:41 AM
my meditation creates more suffering than peace ...
Posts: 11 Join Date: 12/30/12 Recent Posts
i have been on a few retreats (mainly with ajahn brahm these few years). this later half of 2012 i decided that i need to really try to put away work and do something about my life. for the last few weeks, having taken long term leave from work, i have been trying to meditate (by observing the breath) every day. the result is that i develop this not-so-good feeling where i feel that there is a pulse in my head that is very obvious when i quiet down even a bit, and which is too distracting during meditation. a few days back, i was meditating and i felt a great difficulty to breathe normally - i felt like every in-breath the air is entering my head (the upper part) instead of my lungs. i tried to sit very straight but it doesnt help (always had problem figuring out what it means to keep the spine straight). then i tried to slouch and it feels better. after breathing a while i felt strange and i stop breathing - and it's like my head is still breathing, there is a rhythm in the head even when i stop breathing. now i feel the head pulsating everywhere i go and i feel very distracted.
now i have a bit of a phobia trying to meditate. any advice?
now i have a bit of a phobia trying to meditate. any advice?
The Xzanth, modified 11 Years ago at 12/30/12 8:42 AM
Created 11 Years ago at 12/30/12 8:42 AM
RE: my meditation creates more suffering than peace ...
Posts: 71 Join Date: 12/28/12 Recent Posts
I have a few suggestions that might help.
1. Take a Hatha Yoga class which might help you get more in touch with both your breath and your posture. A 'straight' spine is one that follows the natural curve of the spine. A proper breath is one that originates from the diaphragm (even if it is so subtle that one no longer feels the belly moving).
2. I would 1st learn how to practice deep relaxation (20 minutes at a time). Try it lying down or sitting in a comfortable chair (with your back supported). I would use auto suggestion in a progressive relaxation (mentally telling each part of your body to relax one at a time).
Anyways... that's what I got from the top of my head. Don't lose hope, obstacles are meant to be overcome.
1. Take a Hatha Yoga class which might help you get more in touch with both your breath and your posture. A 'straight' spine is one that follows the natural curve of the spine. A proper breath is one that originates from the diaphragm (even if it is so subtle that one no longer feels the belly moving).
2. I would 1st learn how to practice deep relaxation (20 minutes at a time). Try it lying down or sitting in a comfortable chair (with your back supported). I would use auto suggestion in a progressive relaxation (mentally telling each part of your body to relax one at a time).
Anyways... that's what I got from the top of my head. Don't lose hope, obstacles are meant to be overcome.
Andy W, modified 11 Years ago at 12/30/12 9:00 AM
Created 11 Years ago at 12/30/12 9:00 AM
RE: my meditation creates more suffering than peace ...
Posts: 59 Join Date: 10/13/10 Recent Posts
Hello hong ng,
Welcome to the DhO. Since you're here, as opposed to another dharma forum, you probably already about the Dark Night, also known as the dukkha nyanas or Knowledges of Suffering. Meditation can certainly make life worse before it makes it better. We need to meet suffering face to face before we can liberate ourselves from it.
That said, there is no need for unnecessary suffering.
Where are you watching the breath? You might try changing locations if it gets uncomfortable. If you get tension in your head it might be from too tightly watching the breath at the nostrils. Try to relax your focus a little and don't worry if you can't always feel the breath. Move your attention to other areas of the body, such as the belly and watch the breath there. You might also try watching how the breath affects the shoulders, and particularly the back - there is a lot of lung space behind us, so try breathing into the shoulder blades, and the lower back. Feel the muscles in the lower back expanding and widening as you breathe.
Get yourself a soft 9 inch Pilates ball (a few pounds/dollars/euros on Amazon and elsewhere) and lie down on the floor with the ball in the bones at the back of the skull (not the nape of the neck). Now, with your nose, make very very small, very slow circles - the size of a coin. Do this for a few minutes, then switch and rotate the other way. This helps relieve tension in the skull. You can also try focusing on the palms of your hands - for some reason this can help release tension.
I would really recommend checking your posture with someone else - a yoga teacher, meditation teacher, physiotherapist, Qi Gong teacher or an Alexander Technique teacher. Do stretches before you sit: here are some for the lotus posture that can be used for all sitting postures. I also have found some good stuff on this site: saveyourself.ca
Once you've done all of that, you may still find the tension is still there. I have experienced something very similar in meditation and it was, as you say, terrifying. It wrecked a ten day retreat that I did last year, and then cropped up again in the middle of a two week retreat I was on in April. The second time, I made a resolution to treat it with the utmost patience. I was doing walking meditation, focusing on the feet as much as possible, but stopping and coming to a standstill whenever the tension intervened. Then I would note - very patiently, and very gently - the tension, the aversion, the fear and - most importantly - the "story-telling" that was going on. I had been telling myself all sorts of horror stories about what the tension could be, and coming up with all sorts of schemes to get rid of it once I was off retreat. None of this was helpful - it just exacerbated the problem. Meeting the tension gently, patiently, with kindness, and yet more patience, was what allowed it to relax and soften eventually. Try doing that - particularly while walking, since this will get around the breathing and posture problems.
Good luck,
Andy
Welcome to the DhO. Since you're here, as opposed to another dharma forum, you probably already about the Dark Night, also known as the dukkha nyanas or Knowledges of Suffering. Meditation can certainly make life worse before it makes it better. We need to meet suffering face to face before we can liberate ourselves from it.
That said, there is no need for unnecessary suffering.
hong_ng:
have been trying to meditate (by observing the breath) every day. the result is that i develop this not-so-good feeling where i feel that there is a pulse in my head that is very obvious when i quiet down even a bit, and which is too distracting during meditation. a few days back, i was meditating and i felt a great difficulty to breathe normally - i felt like every in-breath the air is entering my head (the upper part) instead of my lungs.
Where are you watching the breath? You might try changing locations if it gets uncomfortable. If you get tension in your head it might be from too tightly watching the breath at the nostrils. Try to relax your focus a little and don't worry if you can't always feel the breath. Move your attention to other areas of the body, such as the belly and watch the breath there. You might also try watching how the breath affects the shoulders, and particularly the back - there is a lot of lung space behind us, so try breathing into the shoulder blades, and the lower back. Feel the muscles in the lower back expanding and widening as you breathe.
Get yourself a soft 9 inch Pilates ball (a few pounds/dollars/euros on Amazon and elsewhere) and lie down on the floor with the ball in the bones at the back of the skull (not the nape of the neck). Now, with your nose, make very very small, very slow circles - the size of a coin. Do this for a few minutes, then switch and rotate the other way. This helps relieve tension in the skull. You can also try focusing on the palms of your hands - for some reason this can help release tension.
I would really recommend checking your posture with someone else - a yoga teacher, meditation teacher, physiotherapist, Qi Gong teacher or an Alexander Technique teacher. Do stretches before you sit: here are some for the lotus posture that can be used for all sitting postures. I also have found some good stuff on this site: saveyourself.ca
Once you've done all of that, you may still find the tension is still there. I have experienced something very similar in meditation and it was, as you say, terrifying. It wrecked a ten day retreat that I did last year, and then cropped up again in the middle of a two week retreat I was on in April. The second time, I made a resolution to treat it with the utmost patience. I was doing walking meditation, focusing on the feet as much as possible, but stopping and coming to a standstill whenever the tension intervened. Then I would note - very patiently, and very gently - the tension, the aversion, the fear and - most importantly - the "story-telling" that was going on. I had been telling myself all sorts of horror stories about what the tension could be, and coming up with all sorts of schemes to get rid of it once I was off retreat. None of this was helpful - it just exacerbated the problem. Meeting the tension gently, patiently, with kindness, and yet more patience, was what allowed it to relax and soften eventually. Try doing that - particularly while walking, since this will get around the breathing and posture problems.
Good luck,
Andy
Darrin Rice, modified 11 Years ago at 1/1/13 2:55 PM
Created 11 Years ago at 1/1/13 2:55 PM
RE: my meditation creates more suffering than peace ...
Posts: 30 Join Date: 8/26/12 Recent Postshong ng:
i have been on a few retreats (mainly with ajahn brahm these few years). this later half of 2012 i decided that i need to really try to put away work and do something about my life. for the last few weeks, having taken long term leave from work, i have been trying to meditate (by observing the breath) every day. the result is that i develop this not-so-good feeling where i feel that there is a pulse in my head that is very obvious when i quiet down even a bit, and which is too distracting during meditation. a few days back, i was meditating and i felt a great difficulty to breathe normally - i felt like every in-breath the air is entering my head (the upper part) instead of my lungs. i tried to sit very straight but it doesnt help (always had problem figuring out what it means to keep the spine straight). then i tried to slouch and it feels better. after breathing a while i felt strange and i stop breathing - and it's like my head is still breathing, there is a rhythm in the head even when i stop breathing. now i feel the head pulsating everywhere i go and i feel very distracted.
now i have a bit of a phobia trying to meditate. any advice?
now i have a bit of a phobia trying to meditate. any advice?
I have actually experienced this myself. I took a different approach and moved my focus totally to that feeling. At one point it felt like my head was going to explode. Felt like the worst headache you could imagine and then it just faded away and I went back to the breath. Break it down from an insight point of view not concentration. Look for the three characteristics in it. It is suffering, there is actual pain, it is impermanent in that it goes away, and it is not self or "mine" for the same reason. All these little or big issues when meditating are the best fodder for enlightenment.
I find myself involuntarily smiling when "distractions" like this come up. I have made more progress working with them than following any planned object of meditation. Don't get irritated at them, use them. If you do get irritated, scared, thrilled, happy, use all of it. Where is that fear, joy, whatever? Break them down into their parts. INVESTIGATE! The big ones are easy because they present so strongly that it is much easier to break them down into the vibrations that they are made of.
I'll take a strong itch on my forehead and work it till either it goes away or I have to scratch it or I'll lose my mind. Suffering presenting like crazy.
I stop breathing all the time. When I realize it I note it and start breathing again. It's funny that I never feel like I'm out of breath when it happens though.
Know this: If you are going through it, millions have gone through it before you. You are not alone! We cling to self and individuality, because of that we think no one else knows what we are going through. I am not special because I am so different, I am special because I am not different.
Dan Cooney, modified 11 Years ago at 1/2/13 7:13 AM
Created 11 Years ago at 1/2/13 7:13 AM
RE: my meditation creates more suffering than peace ...
Posts: 60 Join Date: 10/22/12 Recent Posts
As I see it, focusing on the tip of the nose is partially a method by which to assist in focusing the spirit at the seat of awareness, at the niwan. While this is an important and potent component to meditation, it gets easily conflated with an overemphasis on utilization of the sinuses in the mechanics of breath.
Get back into your gut! Truly deep meditation requires sufficient attenuation of the cranial nerves, and if one focuses too much on the nose and sinuses, that causes an excitatory signal in the olfactory nerve. There are many loops and feedbacks in the brain; excitation in one area very often winds up propagating to other areas. Since there are so many of these feedback mechanisms, we ostensibly have an intertwined matrix of them to mitigate as we bring our bodily systems down to lower consumption levels.
Begin the inhale by descending the bottom rear of the diaphragm, utilize the psoas muscle to "continue the descent" deep into the abdomen (but not so low as to reach the genital area.) In this way, eventually the in breath is like tugging at a large bedsheet in a bit of a breeze while it hangs on the clothesline. Using the middle 70% of the range, investigate each breath structure and time them so that they reach their energetic culmination at once, this will help make the practice decently net energy positive.
Focusing the breath on the lower structures allows you to place the full responsibility of breath on those lower components. If you notice, by utilizing the sinuses when you breathe, they actually buffer the air pressure so that the diaphragm doesnt have to do all the work. Think of when you get hit with a cold blast of air and you inhale - much of that significant pressure differential gets absorbed by the sinuses. In meditation, seek to forget the sinuses and air passageways altogether. You can try using some earplugs to help watch and listen to the movement of air. Once you get to the point where you can isolate the Diaphragm-Psoas-Perineum dynamic and only use those structures for breath, then you'll really be breathing calmly and deeply. I dont mention the front of the abdomen etc because at deep enough levels, "the breath externally disappears," meaning that those structures which manifest the outward appearance of breath are merely assisting the more fundamental structures. Once you eliminate that which is not needed, the efficiency goes through the roof! Drop the movement of air below the threshold of turbulence in the air passageways and you will no longer feel yourself breathe - then you'll find out how much additional energy is used up by all of that extraneous expansion, contraction, and all the little vortices of air that form in the nooks and crannies of the air passages (=turbulence.) Also, once you cant feel that, no stimulation of the olfactory bulb, no stimulation of the vagus nerve by rough breath mechanics.
All of that additional energy not being used gets put to core processes and also fuels the meditation.
I can elaborate more on fixing the spirit at the seat of awareness later, but basically it is like putting a lamp on a pedestal and letting it shine upon the room ;)
Get back into your gut! Truly deep meditation requires sufficient attenuation of the cranial nerves, and if one focuses too much on the nose and sinuses, that causes an excitatory signal in the olfactory nerve. There are many loops and feedbacks in the brain; excitation in one area very often winds up propagating to other areas. Since there are so many of these feedback mechanisms, we ostensibly have an intertwined matrix of them to mitigate as we bring our bodily systems down to lower consumption levels.
Begin the inhale by descending the bottom rear of the diaphragm, utilize the psoas muscle to "continue the descent" deep into the abdomen (but not so low as to reach the genital area.) In this way, eventually the in breath is like tugging at a large bedsheet in a bit of a breeze while it hangs on the clothesline. Using the middle 70% of the range, investigate each breath structure and time them so that they reach their energetic culmination at once, this will help make the practice decently net energy positive.
Focusing the breath on the lower structures allows you to place the full responsibility of breath on those lower components. If you notice, by utilizing the sinuses when you breathe, they actually buffer the air pressure so that the diaphragm doesnt have to do all the work. Think of when you get hit with a cold blast of air and you inhale - much of that significant pressure differential gets absorbed by the sinuses. In meditation, seek to forget the sinuses and air passageways altogether. You can try using some earplugs to help watch and listen to the movement of air. Once you get to the point where you can isolate the Diaphragm-Psoas-Perineum dynamic and only use those structures for breath, then you'll really be breathing calmly and deeply. I dont mention the front of the abdomen etc because at deep enough levels, "the breath externally disappears," meaning that those structures which manifest the outward appearance of breath are merely assisting the more fundamental structures. Once you eliminate that which is not needed, the efficiency goes through the roof! Drop the movement of air below the threshold of turbulence in the air passageways and you will no longer feel yourself breathe - then you'll find out how much additional energy is used up by all of that extraneous expansion, contraction, and all the little vortices of air that form in the nooks and crannies of the air passages (=turbulence.) Also, once you cant feel that, no stimulation of the olfactory bulb, no stimulation of the vagus nerve by rough breath mechanics.
All of that additional energy not being used gets put to core processes and also fuels the meditation.
I can elaborate more on fixing the spirit at the seat of awareness later, but basically it is like putting a lamp on a pedestal and letting it shine upon the room ;)