What are the names for these states?

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Tom Carr, modified 11 Years ago.

What are the names for these states?

Posts: 128 Join Date: 2/17/10 Recent Posts
What are these:

1. The state where it is totally obvious that I am nothing, and I am everything, and that these are two ways of saying the same thing. The quality of this is the obviousness of it. This is generally a momentary experience. It leaves me feeling happy and refreshed.

2. The state where it is obvious that the only way to be happy is to let go of the illusion of a separate self and that the grasping of the separate self can never bring happiness. Again it seems totally obvious, doesn't last long, and leaves me feeling happy and refreshed.

I am not really satisfied with my descriptions but I am describing these the best I can. What are the terms for these states in the Theravada system?
Trent H., modified 11 Years ago.

RE: What are the names for these states?

Posts: 361 Join Date: 8/22/09 Recent Posts
Hi,

It is pretty hard to tell, but taking everything you've said into consideration, I could see these descriptions as going along with A&P events. (In Theravada language, something like: "Knowledge of Arising and Passing away of Phenomena.") Which would typically be followed with a dark night (have you noticed this, or no?).

Note that, even if it is an A&P event, you may find it useful to give the "obviousness" of said realization(s) due intellectual rigor in case what is being realized is not what it at first appeared to be. This is important, as one can unfortunately fall into a trap of backwards rationalizing a belief if one is not careful, using the "credibility" of an event itself to support a belief, rather than approaching both the event and the belief as being separate. It is a matter of one's lack of perspective (we only know our own state of consciousness). Perhaps ask yourself "if I had never read or heard a word about these things, what would I think about what I just experienced?" It is unfortunate, but humans will believe and / or do all manner of wild things if their consciousness has been shifted in some way (even if just temporarily), and they're especially susceptible to the person(s) or text(s) who aided in the shift (and / or sometimes the interpretation simply falls back on some other inherited belief system or other form of influence). I think you would find it salubrious to keep this in mind in all interpretations regarding one's consciousness, regardless of the context (this is especially the case if you have a Buddhist background, as the various states described can be easily misinterpreted as being states that they are not, and even if it is the state one thinks it may be, the importance or relevance of said state is often poorly appraised due to any number of reason.)

With that said, they could also just be "normal" epiphanies, where you realize something that makes you happy and feel that way as a result. I mention this second point because I notice hints of dogma popping up in various places in what you've wrote, and with that in mind, a self fulfilled realization would likely bring comfort and happiness in abundance. For example, one may have read and believed in the idea that "I am nothing, and I am everything" and upon seeing this belief in a new light, comfort, relief, and happiness could be a result. I suspect it would not be enough to call a "state," but I thought I'd mention it anyway.

If you would like to post more information about what you're experiencing, perhaps more could be said. I got off on a bit of a tangent there in the middle, but perhaps you can self diagnose with those words in mind.

Regards,
Trent
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Daniel M. Ingram, modified 11 Years ago.

RE: What are the names for these states?

Posts: 3199 Join Date: 4/20/09 Recent Posts
I like Trent's answers.

If you want more of a states and stages and the like analysis of what that might be, all sorts of sequential info about what happened before and after would be of value, setup, afterglow, techniques, focuses, sensate qualities, width of attention, anything jhanic, vibratory, vedanic, etc.

However, from a more pure-insight point of view: those are good insights, direct seeing of something good. Seeing that same thing more and more for more layers of experience and in the face of more things helps.

As we go deeper into reality, those sorts of momentary flashes become more and more of what waking experience, until at the end, the whole thing might be described as one being nothing or everything or neither of those or just stuff or something like that all the time.

So, learn how to see that same thing for more of your sense field. Remember, remember, remember how that feels, and when something comes up that feels not like that, remember how to see that same aspect of that experience.
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Tom Carr, modified 11 Years ago.

RE: What are the names for these states?

Posts: 128 Join Date: 2/17/10 Recent Posts
Thank you both. This is very helpful. I have never done anything like this before. I have worked with meditation instructors face to face, but I have never described experiences on line and gotten input from several people like what we are doing here.

I know I will need to give more detailed information in order for you to give more precise answers. This is just my first experimental toe in the water with this on line technique.

Again, thank you both.
Chuck Kasmire, modified 11 Years ago.

RE: What are the names for these states?

Posts: 559 Join Date: 8/22/09 Recent Posts
Tom Carr:
What are these:

1. The state where it is totally obvious that I am nothing, and I am everything, and that these are two ways of saying the same thing. The quality of this is the obviousness of it. This is generally a momentary experience. It leaves me feeling happy and refreshed.

2. The state where it is obvious that the only way to be happy is to let go of the illusion of a separate self and that the grasping of the separate self can never bring happiness. Again it seems totally obvious, doesn't last long, and leaves me feeling happy and refreshed.

I am not really satisfied with my descriptions but I am describing these the best I can. What are the terms for these states in the Theravada system?


I would call them vipassana (seeing clearly)

From accesstoinsight: "Clear intuitive insight into physical and mental phenomena as they arise and disappear, seeing them for what they actually are — in and of themselves — in terms of the three characteristics and in terms of stress, its origin, its disbanding, and the way leading to its disbanding"

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